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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


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13 hours ago, Kid in the Riot said:

All the ones that come home with handfuls of cash each day because they don't put hardly anything through the books you mean? 

 

4 minutes ago, BS2 Red said:

This isn’t a normal situation. I’d probably agree if it was just a downturn in a particular area.

But this is far different and involves the government shutting things down and telling certain people not to work. 

The self employed need protection as well as the PAYE employed.

They don't if they are skilled tradesmen as they are all fraudsters according to the post above by that *****.

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28 minutes ago, cidercity1987 said:

Re self employed, thats the nature of the game. You take on the risk of business and benefit from a lower tax rate (NI) and claim expenses that no employed person could.

Many many people who are self employed were forced into that situation to be able to earn. I was made redundant in mid 90's, the only way I could work in the business after said redundancy was to be self employed. Either that or not feed my family and pay the mortgage. Since the tories came to power, self employment has grown massively, a lot of it in low wage work, with little protection, and poor conditions.

 

https://paulmason.substack.com/p/self-employed-hung-out-to-dry?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjo0ODQ3MDI1LCJwb3N0X2lkIjozMjM2MTcsIl8iOiI2T1k4aSIsImlhdCI6MTU4NDc5NDczMCwiZXhwIjoxNTg0Nzk4MzMwLCJpc3MiOiJwdWItMTk5OTgiLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.Ypue04lcDZTlqtE4z_ZqeV4fUqX-TbbGjWr-1pi01hM

Edited by Roger Red Hat
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2 hours ago, havanatopia said:

Do some fact checking; there is. Some will say not enough, some will always say that.

I am sure there will be plenty of time to tax us more in order to get past what will be a huge deficit in the budget; taxing people now is rather futile given that the majority in Britain are currently forced to quarantine and working from home is not viable.

One option they have is to temporarily stop income tax and N.I. payments for everyone earning under a certain level and make this non- recoverable.

We are certainly going to have to pay increased tax going forward, as will be the case elsewhere but that is the least of our worries right now.

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Tbh @wood_red while I won't criticise the Government here, thes things do seem to follow a pattern. Ideally you want to get ahead of the curve.

Yet countries in a lot of cases seem to have followed a similar sequence of events. I see similarities elsewhere with Governments taking decisions too late, or dallying, or hesitating.

I'm not an expert at all but it feels to me that as a country ie a population, as a Government you have to be very quick out of the blocks when faced with this sort of thing. Have we been? Time will tell. I credit them for recent steps and am loathe to criticise, but I still have doubts. 

I look abroad at places far less equipped- Africa, plus in the subcontinent the big 3 of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and think 'Not at all quick enough'. Bits of Latin America too.

Interesting article on the patterns etc. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/01/is-britain-prepared-for-a-possible-coronavirus-pandemic-the-signs-are-not-good

This was written 1st March 2020 or maybe published then so say end of February.

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@Mr PopodopolousMy point is you, or any of us don't know the huge knock on effect of every single decision made (small or big). All countries will have different things in place or not, be more well equipped or not. Just shutting schools 2, 3, 4 weeks ago would have had a massive knock on effect - it may seem like an easy decision now but back then their would be calculated risks for every decision made. 

I said in another post why didn't we just close the borders months ago (simple isn't it)? Stop flights/boats etc even coming in, unless every single person was tested and cleared? The answer is it just wasn't feasible imo, and if it would have happened everyone would be moaning it was way over the top with hardly any cases being reported here.

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51 minutes ago, bristolcitysweden said:

2000 years since Christ. 3 generations per 100 years= 6 000  people and they are all dead. No one has complained. Now we are striked by a slight breeze. I don't give s shit. 

Well that's one person that won't be stockpiling loo paper! 

:D

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2 hours ago, wood_red said:

Some "experts" have indeed, some "experts" haven't. Are you saying then that (take Boris out of it for a moment), that we as a country have poor advisers advising the Government, and all the expert advisers who aren't advising them are in a better position without having all of the facts that contribute to each decision that changes by the hour? The trouble with this virus is so many people have differing opinions (and it is usually people without all the facts, the same as all of us). You can go searching news stories and find people saying schools should have been shut a month ago, and also find people saying they shouldn't be shut now. 

It is just too easy for anyone to find the information they want to hear to suit themselves, and have a dig, and vice versa.

It won't stop though.

Their "experts" are better than our "experts".

Of course they are.....

I'm glad we don't have the experts in some parts of Europe tbh - we'd be in a much worse state than we are at present.

Obviously its going to get worse - but that is to be expected. Some people think they have the solution from behind their keyboard but they don't, they're clueless same as all of us.

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15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Quick question for any experts on this. Thinking IIRC @SX227 and @Dr Balls especially appear to know their stuff. 

How does this compare to the Spanish flu- any ideas? 1918-1919 in the main- should we treat it as seriously- as lethal?

Is there any difference to saying: How does this compare to the Black Death?

I believe that comparison is meaningless because the whole understanding of such conditions has changed, healthcare is fundamentally different, housing is different, communication is different, society is different etc.

The similarities are probably:
Invisible
Hard to defend against
It kills people
Transferred by proximity to infected people
Is causing fear, uncertainty, doubt and is leading to people to make irrational decisions
Decision paralysis
Proves to a certain extent that you can't rely on government to protect you
You have to look at what government is telling you and act accordingly. In a democracy, governments will do their best to provide guidance but it really is for individuals to act on it (all this shit looking to blame the current government for acting quickly etc. is about political point scoring and not about addressing the problem)
Etc.

Differences (talking UK):
Society is, supposedly, more educated
Healthcare is improved, universal and free at point of entry
More (on the whole) disposable income
TV, Internet, media outlets
Communication is easier
Vastly improved access to shops
The government safety net.
Socialisation, in the sense that due to more disposable income, we are mixing more
Etc.

What can be said to be a common factor is Globalisation:
Black Death probably happened as a consequence of world trading
Spanish flu came just after WW1 and people returning from conflicts elsewhere in the world
Coronavirus is happening due to the ease of travel
 

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2 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

Is there any difference to saying: How does this compare to the Black Death?

I believe that comparison is meaningless because the whole understanding of such conditions has changed, healthcare is fundamentally different, housing is different, communication is different, society is different etc.

The similarities are probably:
Invisible
Hard to defend against
It kills people
Transferred by proximity to infected people
Is causing fear, uncertainty, doubt and is leading to people to make irrational decisions
Decision paralysis
Proves to a certain extent that you can't rely on government to protect you
You have to look at what government is telling you and act accordingly. In a democracy, governments will do their best to provide guidance but it really is for individuals to act on it (all this shit looking to blame the current government for acting quickly etc. is about political point scoring and not about addressing the problem)
Etc.

Differences (talking UK):
Society is, supposedly, more educated
Healthcare is improved, universal and free at point of entry
More (on the whole) disposable income
TV, Internet, media outlets
Communication is easier
Vastly improved access to shops
The government safety net.
Socialisation, in the sense that due to more disposable income, we are mixing more
Etc.

What can be said to be a common factor is Globalisation:
Black Death probably happened as a consequence of world trading
Spanish flu came just after WW1 and people returning from conflicts elsewhere in the world
Coronavirus is happening due to the ease of travel
 

You've done it now!

Expect shops to run out of  Rat Poison now you've mentioned the Black Death in connection with coronavirus.

 

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42 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Quick question for any experts on this. Thinking IIRC @SX227 and @Dr Balls especially appear to know their stuff. 

How does this compare to the Spanish flu- any ideas? 1918-1919 in the main- should we treat it as seriously- as lethal?

Spanish flu actually had a bias to killing non-old people.

It was thought for a long time that it was a special type of flu that actually strengthened with a stronger immune system so the younger and helathier you were the more it killed you.

More recent thinking is that was more likely to have a been a variant of a particular strain of flu that had not been seen for a long time - maybe fifty years - so anyone under 50 would not have had the previous version so had no immunity whereas older people may well have caught that previous milder version so still had the antibodies to fight it off.

Whether you regard Coronavirus as worse or better therefore depends upon how old you are!

 

As an interesting aside to this when you have your annual flu jub with the four strains that were selected as being likely for that year not only are you protected from those strains that year but indefinitely.  So if you have been having flu jabs for the last twenty years you now have immunity to eighty strains of flu built up.  Obviously that immunity will slowly weaken over time but if the latter theory is correct for Spanish flu then you have at least fifty years protection from those eighty strains.  The jabs are definitely worth having.

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22 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

It won't stop though.

Their "experts" are better than our "experts".

Of course they are.....

I'm glad we don't have the experts in some parts of Europe tbh - we'd be in a much worse state than we are at present.

Obviously its going to get worse - but that is to be expected. Some people think they have the solution from behind their keyboard but they don't, they're clueless same as all of us.

Who knows which experts are best. I'm not saying I lack confidence in ours but some comparison of how our strategy is significantly superior (in your opinion possibly?) opinion v fact etc, would be illuminating for use rest of us. 

Should we not learn from others errors. For example, Italy- their lockdown of Lombardy leaked out and there was a mass exodus,

I fear the same with London. There's a spike of cases in Wales...would be interesting how much was linked to rich Londoners fleeing.

They also reopened bars in late February, early March for a while.

Both if these were significant errors, pieces of misfortune or both for Italy- we can certainly learn.

I hope the steps taken here have been quick enough.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rugby/bristol-bears-players-agree-take-3969372

It's unclear though just how much choice they got in this matter. IMO of course. Given it's happening at various clubs I wonder...mentions PRL video conference. 

Contractual law @Bristol Rob ? 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

So despite Italy being two weeks ahead of us we learnt nothing in those two weeks and are now tracking them. Great

That is the concern...still too blasé (selfish) imho.  Last night’s pub openings wasn’t a final opportunity for a mass get together, it was just to give those businesses a small window to react.  I’m not gonna mention Tim Martin....arghhh (okay, I just did)!!

I’m sat here with a vulnerable child and as a result we are self-isolating as a family....for 12 weeks.

Why can’t (some) people see the seriousness of this?

[are you RedDave in disguise?]

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5 hours ago, mozo said:

I don't have an issue with the phased approach of the move towards lockdown. But I have felt all along the government were too slow to get started and would have protected more people had they looked at what was going on and acted quickly. There was that pointless business as usual phase.

I agree to an extent, but wish we’d started a week earlier.

Interesting how some people on social media were all:

”eff Coronavirus, I’m still going to Cheltenham, it’s all hysterical media exaggeration”

last week, and now they’ve been impacted by Coronavirus, either the illness itself, or school closures etc etc are now:

“stay indoors, don’t be selfish efftards”

Argghhhh.

.

Edited by Davefevs
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