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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


Loderingo

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28 minutes ago, pillred said:

On 10th march 14 days ago Italy had 631 deaths so a lot more than us at the same stage. our number increased 87 from yesterday the previous days figure in Italy 9th March was 168 lower so their increase was nearly twice ours we are no longer on the same trajectory it seems.

We haven’t counted today’s deaths have we?

Our latest figures would be from the 23rd??

Don't know for sure. 

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8 hours ago, reddoc said:

Hey this sounds like a fun game.

You carry on as normal , wandering round infecting people, and then you can pass them over to me to decide which ones live and which ones die.

Maybe at some point I could give you a list, let you chose, fancy that?

I get your sentiment, but I'm not wondering around. I'm at work. The government has allowed us to do this. 

And by not supporting the self employed to the same extent as everyone else, there making us make a very hard choice. 

Your point should be directed at the government. 'support the SE so they stop going out' or something like that. Not, 'pick who lives you monster'. 

We just want a fair crack, nothing more.

If No1 was getting paid to sit at home and they had the choice to work they would be if they had too.  End of.

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18 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

I get your sentiment, but I'm not wondering around. I'm at work. The government has allowed us to do this. 

And by not supporting the self employed to the same extent as everyone else, there making us make a very hard choice. 

Your point should be directed at the government. 'support the SE so they stop going out' or something like that. Not, 'pick who lives you monster'. 

We just want a fair crack, nothing more.

If No1 was getting paid to sit at home and they had the choice to work they would be if they had too.  End of.

You are being supported.

How much do you think front line care staff e.g. auxiliary nurses, care assistants, support workers are paid to possibly put their lives at risk.. Try less than you will get as a damp proofer to stay at home.

 

 

Edited by Cowshed
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32 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

For those of us wondering if we had already had a mild form of the virus already. One research model suggests we might have.

https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b?fbclid=IwAR0t9k4JbS64ewd6UwLfRWxWp8NdjdYbpnB2VyRgVVnknt3Gje9kZfd1Ktc

Unfortunately its behind a pay wall.

But I don't doubt it at all.

 

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3 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You are being supported.

How much do you think front line care staff e.g. auxiliary nurses, care assistants, support workers are paid to possibly put their lives at risk.. Try less than you will get as a roofer to stay at home.

 

 

Again, not taking anything away from people on the front line. This was not even mentioned or implied. So why is this reasonable to some how make my point invalid? We should give those guys everything they need and more. 

Just want the same support as the employed. It's simple really. That way we can support our NHS by staying at home. 

We just want the same. Nothing more. 

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21 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

I get your sentiment, but I'm not wondering around. I'm at work. The government has allowed us to do this. 

And by not supporting the self employed to the same extent as everyone else, there making us make a very hard choice. 

Your point should be directed at the government. 'support the SE so they stop going out' or something like that. Not, 'pick who lives you monster'. 

We just want a fair crack, nothing more.

If No1 was getting paid to sit at home and they had the choice to work they would be if they had too.  End of.

Government needs to play fair with the self employed as they have done with companies that employ PAYE (we'll see how that turns out..).

You should have no guilt at all and shouldn't need to explain yourself. The problem lies with the government for announcing this lock down before sorting out the self employed. I understand it is more complex than PAYE and they needed to get the lock down in place, but they should have exempted the self employed and issued safety guidelines until the payment mechanisms were in place.

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Government needs to play fair with the self employed as they have done with companies that employ PAYE (we'll see how that turns out..).

You should have no guilt at all and shouldn't need to explain yourself. The problem lies with the government for announcing this lock down before sorting out the self employed. I understand it is more complex than PAYE and they needed to get the lock down in place, but they should have exempted the self employed and issued safety guidelines until the payment mechanisms were in place.

 

 

 

Surely they know the tax returns for the self employed, just as the have the PAYE details for those on that.  I appreciate it isn't going to be a two minute job to collate all of that info and ensure the right people get it, but they have the info.  I assume if you don't PAYE or submit a tax return you are a pensioner or on benefit, so will get paid, if no records you would be part of the black economy, so won't get a bean

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26 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Again, not taking anything away from people on the front line. 

Yes you are.

26 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

 This was not even mentioned or implied. So why is this reasonable to some how make my point invalid? We should give those guys everything they need and more. 

 

We need you to stay at home.

26 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Just want the same support as the employed. It's simple really. That way we can support our NHS by staying at home. 

 

You will be supported to stay at home. 

And you could be better supported than those who work in front line services. Auxiliary nurses, care assistants rarely earn more than £16000 a year. Frequently far less.

26 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

We just want the same. Nothing more. 

Read the above again. You want more.

Personally I would like to see a series of fines for the selfish and stupid bell ends in society who will put the staff of the NHS at risk. These bell end fines can then be used to pay the NHS staff bonuses once this is over as a small means of saying thank you for what is being done on behalf of society. 

Edited by Cowshed
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2 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Surely they know the tax returns for the self employed, just as the have the PAYE details for those on that.  I appreciate it isn't going to be a two minute job to collate all of that info and ensure the right people get it, but they have the info.  I assume if you don't PAYE or submit a tax return you are a pensioner or on benefit, so will get paid, if no records you would be part of the black economy, so won't get a bean

I believe there having difficulty as some small business are going to benefit from this. So they don't want to send money to people that don't need it (a wild guess at 5% of businesses). Quite right. But there has to be something for the 95% in the meantime. And if someone has dodged tax they can jog on anyway. Got to remember at this point in the year tax return information is 18 months old

10 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Government needs to play fair with the self employed as they have done with companies that employ PAYE (we'll see how that turns out..).

You should have no guilt at all and shouldn't need to explain yourself. The problem lies with the government for announcing this lock down before sorting out the self employed. I understand it is more complex than PAYE and they needed to get the lock down in place, but they should have exempted the self employed and issued safety guidelines until the payment mechanisms were in place.

 

 

 

Thanks, nice to not be abused for my options :laugh:

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2 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Surely they know the tax returns for the self employed, just as the have the PAYE details for those on that.  I appreciate it isn't going to be a two minute job to collate all of that info and ensure the right people get it, but they have the info.  I assume if you don't PAYE or submit a tax return you are a pensioner or on benefit, so will get paid, if no records you would be part of the black economy, so won't get a bean

Apparently HMRC systems are not sophisticated enough to enable a simple cross reference to tax returns and having dealt with them in the past I don't doubt it. I can think of many anomalies where the payments would bear no resemblance to reality, but they have to take a stab at it and clean it up as we go along - nobody expects it to be perfect at the start but just get something going (and working unlike any other initiative so far) to enable people to stay at home without going to the wall.

 

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6 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

 

Yes you are.

We need you to stay at home.

You will be supported to stay at home. 

And you could be better supported than those who work in front line services. Auxiliary nurses, care assistants rarely earn more than £16000 a year. Frequently far less.

Read the above again. You want more.

Personally I would like to see a series of fines for the selfish and stupid bell ends in society who will put the staff of the NHS at risk. These bell end fines can then be used to pay the NHS staff bonuses once this is over as a small means of saying thank you for what is being done on behalf of society. 

Jeez Fella.

I am not taking anything away from the front line. I fully support them. Obviously?!

I am not being supported. Whatsoever. At all. Nothing. Nor is there any plan in place to do so. NOTHING.

Nurses should be paid more, agreed. 

If you need us to stay at home, spread the message that the SE need to be supported to do so. Don't give us a shit choice the moan when we make it. 

I categorically do not want more. Just the same as the employed. 

 

I personally would like to give you a bell end fine. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Red-Robbo said:

For those of us wondering if we had already had a mild form of the virus already. One research model suggests we might have.

https://www.ft.com/content/5ff6469a-6dd8-11ea-89df-41bea055720b?fbclid=IwAR0t9k4JbS64ewd6UwLfRWxWp8NdjdYbpnB2VyRgVVnknt3Gje9kZfd1Ktc

This article backs that up and doubts the veracity of the scary Imperial mortality modelling widely quoted on here;

https://reaction.life/oxford-study-50-of-uk-population-may-be-infected-already/

Hope they are correct.

Unfortunately, it looks as if Spain is heading towards where Italy is now;

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Edited by bcfc01
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2 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

Jeez Fella.

I am not taking anything away from the front line. I fully support them. Obviously?!

I am not being supported. Whatsoever. At all. Nothing. Nor is there any plan in place to do so. NOTHING.

Nurses should be paid more, agreed. 

If you need us to stay at home, spread the message that the SE need to be supported to do so. Don't give us a shit choice the moan when we make it. 

I categorically do not want more. Just the same as the employed. 

 

I personally would like to give you a bell end fine. 

 

 

I work in a front line service. 

You are not being supportive.

Scotland is considering fines for those not following guidelines.

I was not joking about the fines .. 

 

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53 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

You are being supported.

How much do you think front line care staff e.g. auxiliary nurses, care assistants, support workers are paid to possibly put their lives at risk.. Try less than you will get as a damp proofer to stay at home.

 

 

IF you are self employed, you don’t work, you don’t eat. My wife and I have spent the last five years trying to build two businesses. No weekends off, no Bank holidays except Christmas Day. That has all gone now. Government has closed our businesses (correct decision, I’m not arguing it). As things stand, we will get £93/week (in 5 weeks time) whilst my neighbour who has a lovely Range Rover and gets his salary and paid holidays every month, gets 80% of his salary. 

Of course we realise we need to stay in, but how are we supposed to live?  With mortgage, bills and Council Tax we cannot exist on 2 x £93. What are we to do?

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6 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

I work in a front line service. 

You are not being supportive.

Scotland is considering fines for those not following guidelines.

I was not joking about the fines .. 

 

What am I going to get fined for?

I'm allowed to travel to work that I cannot do from home. We very much respect the social distance approach. 

If you don't agree with that your issue is with the government, not me. I don't make the rules. And I would prefer to be at home. 

I appreciate this comes form a good place. But I just hope you can see my point. 

Give us the fair opportunity to do as the employed are. 

Thank you for your efforts on the front line. Stay safe.

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37 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Surely they know the tax returns for the self employed, just as the have the PAYE details for those on that.  I appreciate it isn't going to be a two minute job to collate all of that info and ensure the right people get it, but they have the info.  I assume if you don't PAYE or submit a tax return you are a pensioner or on benefit, so will get paid, if no records you would be part of the black economy, so won't get a bean

if you get in more than the tax free allowance you pay tax.

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8 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

IF you are self employed, you don’t work, you don’t eat. My wife and I have spent the last five years trying to build two businesses. No weekends off, no Bank holidays except Christmas Day. That has all gone now. Government has closed our businesses (correct decision, I’m not arguing it). As things stand, we will get £93/week (in 5 weeks time) whilst my neighbour who has a lovely Range Rover and gets his salary and paid holidays every month, gets 80% of his salary. 

Of course we realise we need to stay in, but how are we supposed to live?  With mortgage, bills and Council Tax we cannot exist on 2 x £93. What are we to do?

It's becoming a massive social devide. Don't expect the masses to care about us, the majority of people on this forum have been instantly abusive to any thought of equality in this matter. It's a case of 'im alright jack' 

If you turned the tables can you imagine the up roar. Yet we was contrabuting members of society are left to rot and told to put up and shut up. 

Any respect I once had for humanity is rapidly fading. I hope you and your partner get through this. 

Stay safe. 

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3 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

What am I going to get fined for?

I'm allowed to travel to work that I cannot do from home. We very much respect the social distance approach. 

If you don't agree with that your issue is with the government, not me. I don't make the rules. And I would prefer to be at home. 

I appreciate this comes form a good place. But I just hope you can see my point. 

Give us the fair opportunity to do as the employed are. 

Thank you for your efforts on the front line. Stay safe.

Fined ? Laughable.

I think the loophole the Government have left open in terms of travelling to work is geared towards the self employed more than any other sector.

In other words - get on with your business whilst adhering to safety guidelines until we sort out the payments. Once that has been sorted out you will be house bound unless deemed an essential service.

Thats exactly how I would interpret it in your shoes and I would do exactly the same as are several people I know.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

It's becoming a massive social devide. Don't expect the masses to care about us, the majority of people on this forum have been instantly abusive to any thought of equality in this matter. It's a case of 'im alright jack' 

If you turned the tables can you imagine the up roar. Yet we was contrabuting members of society are left to rot and told to put up and shut up. 

Any respect I once had for humanity is rapidly fading. I hope you and your partner get through this. 

Stay safe. 

More likely that you got abuse down to the fact you said you hoped someone sneezed in another person's food, because they dared to challenge you.

Rather than some agenda against the self employed.

 

Just a guess though.

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3 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Fined ? Laughable.

I think the loophole the Government have left open in terms of travelling to work is geared towards the self employed more than any other sector.

In other words - get on with your business whilst adhering to safety guidelines until we sort out the payments. Once that has been sorted out you will be house bound unless deemed an essential service.

Thats exactly how I would interpret it in your shoes and I would do exactly the same as are several people I know.

 

 

Completely agree, will say saw plenty of trades out today. 

All saying the same thing. 

They will sort it, but untill they do it's business as normal. 

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

More likely that you got abuse down to the fact you said you hoped someone sneezed in another person's food, because they dared to challenge you.

Rather than some agenda against the self employed.

 

Just a guess though.

To be fair, I'm probably not innocent in all that, but it was always as a reaction to instant abuse of some form. 

I think we made up in the end tho

4 minutes ago, frenchred said:

I'm employed by a very large company so no impact to me working from home on full pay. I think self employed should have benefits open to them in line with the tax they have declared over the last few years. Gig to be fair surely?

Yep I'd take that

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51 minutes ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Surely they know the tax returns for the self employed, just as the have the PAYE details for those on that.  I appreciate it isn't going to be a two minute job to collate all of that info and ensure the right people get it, but they have the info.  I assume if you don't PAYE or submit a tax return you are a pensioner or on benefit, so will get paid, if no records you would be part of the black economy, so won't get a bean

Self employed tax returns only show half of their income though ?

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2 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Self employed tax returns only show half of their income though ?

That's very assumptive. In fact any self employed subcontractors pay there tax in advance and its paid by the person that pays them. It isn't like it used to be. Everyone pays by bank transfer. I would say anyone with a turn over of £35k plus simply cannot avoid paying the correct amount of tax. Only the small 'cash in hand' workers have the opportunity to avoid tax. And this will (or should) bite them on the arse now. 

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3 hours ago, bcfc01 said:

In other news, it seems the Government have taken back the railways from the franchisees;

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2020/03/meanwhile-while-you-were-distracted-by-other-events-the-government-has-nationalised-the-railways.html

May be old news but I didn't realise it had gone that far - about time though.

 

Passenger numbers have fallen off a cliff, i drove a train on Sunday and the passengers could’ve had a carriage each which is extreme social distancing, and had the government not stepped in the private operators would’ve just handed back the keys 

Does mean technically I’m now a government employee 

Edited by walnutroof
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3 minutes ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

That's very assumptive. In fact any self employed subcontractors pay there tax in advance and its paid by the person that pays them. It isn't like it used to be. Everyone pays by bank transfer. I would say anyone with a turn over of £35k plus simply cannot avoid paying the correct amount of tax. Only the small 'cash in hand' workers have the opportunity to avoid tax. And this will (or should) bite them on the arse now. 

So the guys who laid my drive, erected my fences, built my wall, tiled my bathroom, fitted worktops and wall mirrors, and fixed my leaky plumbing who all asked for payment in cash all declared it?

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