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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


Loderingo

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14 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

S

sounds an horrendous plan to me, should just null and void the season and start again with leagues as they are.

It’s been popping up for weeks this idea of promoting but not relegating. It’s what will happen IMO. In the money driven world of English football they will do whatever bring the least amount of litigation as I can’t see us restarting the season now.

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2 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

One thing to consider sadly is what happens if some clubs go bust potentially leaving gaps in the divisions?

I will be amazed that if we start back later than 30.06, that it will be with 71 EFL clubs.

1 hour ago, Pickle Rick said:

I believe it will mean 23 teams in Premiership, 27 in Champ and six relegated instead of three.

No 23 Prem, 24 Champ ( we lose top 3, gain Lg1 top 3), etc.

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3 hours ago, Dolman_Stand said:

No easy way out of this but if litigation is the concern relegating teams before it is mathematically confirmed is about as bad as it could get I imagine

This is all definite is it- the prorata route? That may resolve a few issues. In fact, prorata could form part of a compromise, where both sides or all parties take a hit to keep the show on the road- but I'm wondering if that's where it all stands contractually.

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The main issue with behind closed doors games will be if a player tests positive after a couple of weeks of the restart by which time the infection could have spread to another 6 or 7 clubs all of which would then have to isolate and mean further delay and make a nonsense of the whole process as it still couldn't be finished.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

This is all definite is it- the prorata route? That may resolve a few issues. In fact, prorata could form part of a compromise, where both sides or all parties take a hit to keep the show on the road- but I'm wondering if that's where it all stands contractually.

No idea but it would be my guess as games have still been broadcast up to mid march therefore tv companies have had months worth of their product to sell to subscribers, anyone with Sky isn't going to now be receiving a refund on the last 7 months of their bills just because the season hasn't finished. One for the lawyers I suppose but if Sky want a full seasons broadcasting rights back then presumably this would have to be passed down to the consumer?

 

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2 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

No idea but it would be my guess as games have still been broadcast up to mid march therefore tv companies have had months worth of their product to sell to subscribers, anyone with Sky isn't going to now be receiving a refund on the last 7 months of their bills just because the season hasn't finished. One for the lawyers I suppose but if Sky want a full seasons broadcasting rights back then presumably this would have to be passed down to the consumer?

 

Agreed.

Any full or say 50% (just picked a number out of the air) would have to go down the line, ie clubs refund Sky etc, Sky refund subscribers- maybe the prorata is simpler and easier for all concerned.

No easy way out though, as you said earlier- Lawyers on all sides would have a lot of work coming their way in a null and void IMO.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Agreed.

Any full or say 50% (just picked a number out of the air) would have to go down the line, ie clubs refund Sky etc, Sky refund subscribers- maybe the prorata is simpler and easier for all concerned.

No easy way out though, as you said earlier- Lawyers on all sides would have a lot of work coming their way in a null and void IMO.

At the moment the clubs are carrying all the risk at the moment as presumably TV companies dont pay up front for the full season. So the clubs are looking at lost TV revenue for as long as this lasts as well as having to reimburse season ticket holders for the remainder of this season as a minimum and probably a period of next season without matchday income, not to mention that even when the gates do open there wont be as many supporters anyway due to deaths, nervousness over mass gatherings, lack of disposable income etc all of which will mean ticket prices being driven down if anything.

No wonder so many are worried about going to the wall

Edited by Dolman_Stand
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8 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

No idea but it would be my guess as games have still been broadcast up to mid march therefore tv companies have had months worth of their product to sell to subscribers, anyone with Sky isn't going to now be receiving a refund on the last 7 months of their bills just because the season hasn't finished. One for the lawyers I suppose but if Sky want a full seasons broadcasting rights back then presumably this would have to be passed down to the consumer?

 

There was talk that the remaining Premier League games (45 of the 90 left were due to be televised) were worth £750m of the UK and worldwide tv deal.

The maths add up....£9.2bn for 3 years, so £3bn a season....a quarter of games yet to be shown equals £750m.  And they’ve already paid it up front.  Couple in loss of subs of £20pm from all of us, and you can see this is a very delicate situation on both sides.  Imagine all Prem clubs having to give £37.5m back....it would cause serious probs.

In the EFL, a £595m deal over 5 years is worth approx £4m per season to each Champ club....so a quarter of the season equates to £1m per club!!!

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Just read that Blackburn have agreed wage deferral- and part of that wage deferral will be to ensure all staff paid in full.

Whether that means 80% furlough + 20%, or in full with the wages from players deferred going to club staff- call it a temporary reallocation of the pot- I'm unsure. Still sounds good on the face of it.

Edit- seems to be the furlough, topping up yet deferral- mix of approaches? Similar to us except for the topping up bit.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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10 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

At the moment the clubs are carrying all the risk at the moment as presumably TV companies dont pay up front for the full season. So the clubs are looking at lost TV revenue for as long as this lasts as well as having to reimburse season ticket holders for the remainder of this season as a minimum and probably a period of next season without matchday income, not to mention that even when the gates do open there wont be as many supporters anyway due to deaths, nervousness over mass gatherings, lack of disposable income etc all of which will mean ticket prices being driven down if anything.

No wonder so many are worried about going to the wall

See my post above....it’s paid up front....plus Sky have advanced some of next year’s money too ???

I worked out a few weeks ago that City might have to refund about £700k in season ticket revenue for the remaining 5 home games, about £50 per season ticket holder on average.

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8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

See my post above....it’s paid up front....plus Sky have advanced some of next year’s money too ???

I worked out a few weeks ago that City might have to refund about £700k in season ticket revenue for the remaining 5 home games, about £50 per season ticket holder on average.

I’m hoping they’ll give supporters the option of a refund or not. 

Or if they feel it must be refunded, an option to divert it to the City Foundation. 

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7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

See my post above....it’s paid up front....plus Sky have advanced some of next year’s money too ???

I worked out a few weeks ago that City might have to refund about £700k in season ticket revenue for the remaining 5 home games, about £50 per season ticket holder on average.

So City looking at a loss of 1.7m currently plus loss of matchday revenue from the remaining home games? Call it £2-2.25m? A lot of money to the man on the street but in relation to SL's weath it's not going to see us out of business thankfully 

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5 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

So City looking at a loss of 1.7m currently plus loss of matchday revenue from the remaining home games? Call it £2-2.25m? A lot of money to the man on the street but in relation to SL's weath it's not going to see us out of business thankfully 

Across the group, with the stadium hosting gigs, the annual turnover is £30m.  Simply calculated on an even distribution, 2-3 months with no income is between 2/12ths and 3/12ths (£5-7.5m).  I guess an average of 25% off (most of it deferred) the wage bill for 2-3 months probably saves £2m....so the club is gonna take a hit.

Some other clubs must be bricking it.

No wonder Uncle Mel at Derby was angling for a 50% deferral.

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Looking at the BBC website, a good article on how we were too slow as a country and will be paying the price now for a long time.

Even with a comprehensive contact tracing programme in place, Prof Sridhar said physical distancing would be with us for a long time.

She said: "I think we're going to have to alter our behaviour in terms of having mass gatherings, concerts for the next year, year and a half until we know more about this”

People need to get it out their heads that we will be watching football for the next year or so. 

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I think it will not take long before fans ask for their money back.  

At the moment clubs can hide behind 'we dont know what's happening yet' but just think how much of our money the club has currently which will definitely need to be refunded  (certainly the last 5 games of this season for sure ).

There are people who could really use that money who have been laid off /on zero hours contracts .

 

 

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49 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

I think it will not take long before fans ask for their money back.  

At the moment clubs can hide behind 'we dont know what's happening yet' but just think how much of our money the club has currently which will definitely need to be refunded  (certainly the last 5 games of this season for sure ).

There are people who could really use that money who have been laid off /on zero hours contracts .

 

 

I am going to guess that the club (and THE EFL) will point us towards a bit of small print before saying the games will be streamed.

Not sure I'd take a refund if offered one, I want the club to be competitive. But as you rightly say, a lot of people could likely do with the cash back if their circumstances have changed.

Hopefully they can find something that works for everyone.

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3 hours ago, S25loyal said:

Looking at the BBC website, a good article on how we were too slow as a country and will be paying the price now for a long time.

Even with a comprehensive contact tracing programme in place, Prof Sridhar said physical distancing would be with us for a long time.

She said: "I think we're going to have to alter our behaviour in terms of having mass gatherings, concerts for the next year, year and a half until we know more about this”

People need to get it out their heads that we will be watching football for the next year or so. 

Yep, can potentially write off next season as well re enjoyment factor.

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5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I am going to guess that the club (and THE EFL) will point us towards a bit of small print before saying the games will be streamed.

Not sure I'd take a refund if offered one, I want the club to be competitive. But as you rightly say, a lot of people could likely do with the cash back if their circumstances have changed.

Hopefully they can find something that works for everyone.

I disagree,  I bought a season ticket to watch live football.  I cancelled my sky sports subscription at the beginning of March and recieved the refund in April. The club has to offer a refund, whether people take it up, is obviously up to them.

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22 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

I disagree,  I bought a season ticket to watch live football.  I cancelled my sky sports subscription at the beginning of March and recieved the refund in April. The club has to offer a refund, whether people take it up, is obviously up to them.

It might be that the club want to offer future discounts to keep some element of liquidity rather than refund people.

Hopefully they will be able to present a range of options. I'm sure a lot of people may (for example) have written off the spend for this season and next as they have already shelled out, but would welcome a discount in the 3rd season of 'x' %.

Either way, I hope the options they come up with means everyone thinks they have been dealt with fairly.

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35 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

I disagree,  I bought a season ticket to watch live football.  I cancelled my sky sports subscription at the beginning of March and recieved the refund in April. The club has to offer a refund, whether people take it up, is obviously up to them.

With the sky sports refund , what happens to your subscription, goes it get added on at the end of your term by an extra month(s)

I spoke to BT yesterday and they said for BT Sport they would automatically add the sport package onto a 18 month contract which I don’t want to do as looking to switch broadband and BT sport onto a new sky package 

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42 minutes ago, Vincent Vega said:

I disagree,  I bought a season ticket to watch live football.  I cancelled my sky sports subscription at the beginning of March and recieved the refund in April. The club has to offer a refund, whether people take it up, is obviously up to them.

I think they will have to. Under the Sale Of Goods Act(?) fans are not receiving the product they have paid for (watching live football, from your seat in a stadium) so a refund must surely have to be offered. That`s not to say fans shouldn`t have other options should they choose to take them up (free Robins TV subs, a `free` ST for the next full season etc.) but the option of a refund will have to be there by law I think.

One thing I hope the club don`t do though is penalise those ST holders that opt for the refund - they must IMO have the opportunity to retake their seat at existing ST prices in future seasons and not be treated as new ST holders.

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9 minutes ago, daored said:

With the sky sports refund , what happens to your subscription, goes it get added on at the end of your term by an extra month(s)

I spoke to BT yesterday and they said for BT Sport they would automatically add the sport package onto a 18 month contract which I don’t want to do as looking to switch broadband and BT sport onto a new sky package 

Mine was with Virgin so slightly different. Just a minor matter of a frustrating call to india to try and cancel it. Once through it was straight forward enough. 

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I think all clubs are very lucky more fans aren't asking for refunds now 

Clearly no one will be attending the last 5 games so in principle refunds could be offered now.

Feels like the climate has changed economically in the last week and that businesses including football are beginning to creak. There is a real push to open businesses and get football on again .

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2 hours ago, daored said:

I spoke to BT yesterday and they said for BT Sport they would automatically add the sport package onto a 18 month contract which I don’t want to do as looking to switch broadband and BT sport onto a new sky package 

Sorry if I misunderstood ,but i went on the BT website to find out about a refund on my sports package found a link which will credit the monthly charge against your next bill .

Just provided account number and email address - no complaints from me and took a couple of minutes.

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