The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)

[Lanterne Rouge]

2 minutes ago, E.G.Red said:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/johnson-buzzing-as-players-return-to-failand-for-small-group-training/

Thanks mate, I haven`t bothered looking at the OS in ages for obvious reasons!

[Davefevs]

Good to see some content...and hear LJ’s voice....I’ve missed it.

James P at the Bristol Post wrote an article about the contract situation with Korey, Niki and Ashley.  Basically LJ said he would extend them short term if they haven’t agreed a contract elsewhere on 30.06.  So intention clear.

Be good to find out intentions re the 4 loaners.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

Can anyone help with some questions. Not been on here for a while as I've quite enjoyed a break from football, I've realised it at times makes me quite unhappy and I'm not sure right now if and when people can go back to the gate ill be one of them.

Anyway apologies if the answers are somewhere in this monster thread but here goes.

1. Will we get any money back from our season tickets

2. Will we get a refund on next year's season tickets 

3. If games are played behind closed doors, will they be broadcast and if so what platform sky/bbc/online etc. 

Cheers if anyone can help. 

[Lrrr]

10 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

Can anyone help with some questions. Not been on here for a while as I've quite enjoyed a break from football, I've realised it at times makes me quite unhappy and I'm not sure right now if and when people can go back to the gate ill be one of them.

Anyway apologies if the answers are somewhere in this monster thread but here goes.

1. Will we get any money back from our season tickets

2. Will we get a refund on next year's season tickets 

3. If games are played behind closed doors, will they be broadcast and if so what platform sky/bbc/online etc. 

Cheers if anyone can help. 

Nothings been announced and nothing will be until somethings actually been decided

[WolfOfWestStreet]

13 minutes ago, hodge said:

Nothings been announced and nothing will be until somethings actually been decided

OK great would be good get some clarity soon ove read some clubs have refunded fans already. 

[Lrrr]

24 minutes ago, WolfOfWestStreet said:

OK great would be good get some clarity soon ove read some clubs have refunded fans already. 

Problem is, say by the miracle of miracles a 100% working vaccine was discovered tomorrow and somehow we had fans back in the stadiums for the end of this season (yes its probably less than a 0.00001% chance) then if the club had refunded fans then they'd need that money back again because they'd provided the original service. Until a decision has been made by the clubs/EFL then its difficult to make any certain moves or issue certain statements.

[WolfOfWestStreet]

3 hours ago, hodge said:

Problem is, say by the miracle of miracles a 100% working vaccine was discovered tomorrow and somehow we had fans back in the stadiums for the end of this season (yes its probably less than a 0.00001% chance) then if the club had refunded fans then they'd need that money back again because they'd provided the original service. Until a decision has been made by the clubs/EFL then its difficult to make any certain moves or issue certain statements.

I know I just think the whole world knows we are not watching football down the gate for a long time. Been furloughed and have a newborn so recently season tickets seem kind of irrelevant unfortunately, this season and next (if and when that happens). 

Thanks anyway we'll see what the next few week have in store now the players are back training. 

[daored]

9 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Good to see some content...and hear LJ’s voice....I’ve missed it.

James P at the Bristol Post wrote an article about the contract situation with Korey, Niki and Ashley.  Basically LJ said he would extend them short term if they haven’t agreed a contract elsewhere on 30.06.  So intention clear.

Be good to find out intentions re the 4 loaners.

Interesting interview with Johnson in Times today - where he speaks about Afobe- he seems excited to have him back. 
 

Interesting team selection Wells and Afobe up front together?

[jrabrewer]

14 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

Absolutely. Can't wait around for a vaccine that now looks likely to be a non starter in view of how quickly the virus us disappearing. We will be in grounds with or without a vaccine by October at the latest  

I wish I shared your optimism that this virus will just fizzle out, unfortunately I think it is here to stay. However I do think mass testing could provide a way to see us back in grounds far sooner than some are suggesting. We now have a highly accurate 20 minute swab test, if this were to be rolled out on a grand scale then it could be a way forwards for things such as sporting events, social gatherings and air travel which are currently taboo subjects.

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, daored said:

Interesting interview with Johnson in Times today - where he speaks about Afobe- he seems excited to have him back. 
 

Interesting team selection Wells and Afobe up front together?

It’s as exciting as it gets.  On paper, it’s one if the best in the Champ.  From the little we saw of Afobe (we knew he could score goals already), he had a far better all round game than I thought, and that bodes well....if fit.

In some ways covid has given him the chance to steadily up his fitness.  It would’ve been rushed had we completed fixtures on original dates.  He’s given himself 8/9 weeks extra.  I really hope he comes back firing, not just for us, but for him...he’s had a traumatic 9 months.

[And Its Smith]

Is there any chance stoke can take Afobe back after 1st July? Sure Michael O’Neill might want him 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Is there any chance stoke can take Afobe back after 1st July? Sure Michael O’Neill might want him 

I would expect so.  In my opinion, it would need all 3 parties (City, Stoke and Benik) to agree to extend it.  If he does go back, he won’t be able to play for Stoke (no transfer of registration allowed) ...and is a burden on their budget, which currently City are helping with.

City have an option to purchase....whether that could be triggered on 30.06 I’ve no idea.

Finally, as Benik can’t play for Stoke, he might be better served helping us take points off their relegation rivals, e.g. Hull and Boro.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Davefevs

[wayne allisons tongues]

Do loan deals end 31.05. 

Have a feeling clubs did them till that date to cover any playoff games.

If it is 31.05 does that mean Benkovic and Afobe are free to play for there parent clubs from 1.06 for registration is over. 
Gary Neville was chatting about loan deals Salford did and mentioned all players in and out were only till end of season. Non league expired 30.04 when there season was finished he mentioned.

[Davefevs]

1 minute ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Do loan deals end 31.05. 

Have a feeling clubs did them till that date to cover any playoff games.

If it is 31.05 does that mean Benkovic and Afobe are free to play for there parent clubs from 1.06 for registration is over. 
Gary Neville was chatting about loan deals Salford did and mentioned all players in and out were only till end of season. Non league expired 30.04 when there season was finished he mentioned.

Was mentioned by @hodge somewhere above that Man Utd are covering the additional wages to finish the season, implies than loan deals can be extended beyond their current expiry.  There is “currently” no option to transfer a current registration (eg. Afobe’s reg is with us) that allows a player to play for their “new club.

Norwich have announced and signed a player and he will join on 01.07.  He cannot play for Norwich this season.

[And Its Smith]

6 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Do loan deals end 31.05. 

Have a feeling clubs did them till that date to cover any playoff games.

If it is 31.05 does that mean Benkovic and Afobe are free to play for there parent clubs from 1.06 for registration is over. 
Gary Neville was chatting about loan deals Salford did and mentioned all players in and out were only till end of season. Non league expired 30.04 when there season was finished he mentioned.

31st June I believe 

[Davefevs]

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

31st June I believe 

Were you born on the 30th Feb

4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was mentioned by @hodge somewhere above that Man Utd are covering the additional wages to finish the season, implies than loan deals can be extended beyond their current expiry.  There is “currently” no option to transfer a current registration (eg. Afobe’s reg is with us) that allows a player to play for their “new club.

Norwich have announced and signed a player and he will join on 01.07.  He cannot play for Norwich this season.

Our own @JonDolman asking the Q

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Davefevs

[wayne allisons tongues]

11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Was mentioned by @hodge somewhere above that Man Utd are covering the additional wages to finish the season, implies than loan deals can be extended beyond their current expiry.  There is “currently” no option to transfer a current registration (eg. Afobe’s reg is with us) that allows a player to play for their “new club.

Norwich have announced and signed a player and he will join on 01.07.  He cannot play for Norwich this season.

Hodge article stated Man Utd dropped loan payments for clubs to pay. One player was at Hearts and season is over for them. Which was why I thought it was unfair on other clubs who still have to pay fees for there players on loan..

was just interested for in the past we had players on loan and were told till end of play offs and they go back. With Gary Neville saying clubs agree loans till end of season April/May wasn’t sure where we stood.

If loan expires 30.06 then as James Piercey says up to parent club and they could recall the player for I presume registration goes back to parent club 1.07 

[Lrrr]

5 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

If loan expires 30.06 then as James Piercey says up to parent club and they could recall the player for I presume registration goes back to parent club 1.07 

You can be at a club but not registered to play in the league, hence all the discussion around 25 man squads for premier league etc and who may get/loaned or transferred after they're announced, same would be for us. We have have an announced registered squad, we can't add to it until the window to do so re-opens, however players can join the club/return from loan but be ineligible to play.

[Davefevs]

14 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Hodge article stated Man Utd dropped loan payments for clubs to pay. One player was at Hearts and season is over for them. Which was why I thought it was unfair on other clubs who still have to pay fees for there players on loan..

was just interested for in the past we had players on loan and were told till end of play offs and they go back. With Gary Neville saying clubs agree loans till end of season April/May wasn’t sure where we stood.

If loan expires 30.06 then as James Piercey says up to parent club and they could recall the player for I presume registration goes back to parent club 1.07 

That’s a good point ....think it was more Hodge’s explanation that it was due to extra weeks / months loan payments....but I’ll let him answer.

[Tinmans Love Child]

18 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Blimey, an article from tomorrow!

[downendcity]

21 hours ago, downendcity said:

This is the article relating his comments in full.

I kno he's floating the suggestion of "adjusting "players' wages while the effects of cover 19 affect football, but wonder whether he ( and many other chairmen/owners) will be seeing it aether catalyst to enable some sort of re-setting players wages to levels that are more manageable within clubs' revenues and especially so given the impact of ffp.

English football's pyramid will be destroyed unless the game starts to plan for the financial impact of Covid-19 beyond the 2019-20 season, says Huddersfield owner Phil Hodgkinson. 

Hodgkinson thinks as many as "50 or 60" clubs could go bust.

He says he is looking at a "worst-case scenario" of no fans allowed in stadiums for the 2020-21 season.

"The problem is not whether we finish [this] season or not, it is what happens after that," he told BBC Sport.

Having previously owned National League North side Southport, Hodgkinson has experience of the hand-to-mouth existence of many lower-league clubs.

"If we don't come to an agreement there will be no football pyramid. There are clubs I know of that are only still trading because they are deferring wages and [tax] and other creditors. They will need paying at some point," Hodgkinson said.

"There is an absolutely real, stark probability that if something isn't agreed now within football to ensure all clubs can pay their bills and get through to the point where income is resumed, you will be looking at 50 or 60 clubs ceasing to exist. Genuinely, I am talking about that many."

'What is football going to do to ensure the entire pyramid survives?'

Hodgkinson says Huddersfield, three points above the Championship relegation zone, want the season to restart "when it is safe", with clubs set to return to training on Monday.

But he says the game "is not looking at the bigger picture", with the main focus being on restarting the current season.

"It will cost each club between £150,000 and £200,000 for testing to get to the end of the season," he said. "But what happens after that? 

"We have been told by the government that there will be no large gatherings until there is a vaccine and that is likely to be in 2021. That means football clubs will lose a vast proportion of their income outside of any broadcast money, which is likely to be significantly reduced or clawed back anyway. 

"In normal revenue, we are looking at losing between £7m and £10m. The claw-back for TV is going to be £10m-£30m. That is just us. So, what is football going to do to ensure the entire pyramid survives this? The discussion is being avoided. For the next three, six or 12 months clubs are going to have no income."

One solution Hodgkinson has suggested is reducing players' wages at every level of the game.

"The players are not to blame," he said. "But the reality is, the players have to be part of the solution because if clubs go bust, their contracts won't get met anyway.

"They may not like me saying this, but [players' union] the PFA need to put in place salary cuts of between 30% and 50% for all players at all levels until such a time as crowds are allowed back into football stadiums and income streams return. 

"These are ideas. They may not be the right ones. But something has to be done because everyone knows what is coming and people are just sticking their heads in the sand." 

 

As a post script to this, I caught a bit of Simon Jordan on Talksport today.

The absurd level of players' wages has been a hobby horse of his for some time and from what he said today it seems clear that he thinks that the financial landscape of football will change as a result of covid 19 and  that players, agents and the PFA need to get their heads around this as he doesn;t think they can expect anything like the same contracts have they have enjoyed in the past.

He wasn't just talking about the immediate aftermath of the virus, i.e. while clubs revenues are reduced while  games are played behind closed doors, he sees this change being a long term one.

 

[italian dave]

Can anyone help? Looking for an article or suchlike about the future of the game over the next 4-5 years. Not just whether we'll get this season finished. It's for a friend in Italy who's a teacher and has a student doing his final exam about it. 

I'll signpost to the article above by the Huddersfield chairman, but wondered if anyone has come across anything else? 

Thanks

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, downendcity said:

As a post script to this, I caught a bit of Simon Jordan on Talksport today.

The absurd level of players' wages has been a hobby horse of his for some time and from what he said today it seems clear that he thinks that the financial landscape of football will change as a result of covid 19 and  that players, agents and the PFA need to get their heads around this as he doesn;t think they can expect anything like the same contracts have they have enjoyed in the past.

He wasn't just talking about the immediate aftermath of the virus, i.e. while clubs revenues are reduced while  games are played behind closed doors, he sees this change being a long term one.

 

Some guy on twitter reckoned it will cost Wednesday £11m next season (might include this season, can’t recall).

Imagine our annual income dropping from £30m to £19m?  Bearing in mind our costs are massively more than that, currently £50m.  I suspect you’d lose some of those costs.  Let’s say we lopped off £11m by being frugal, not extending contracts.  I’m probably being optimistic!

We still have the same £20m loss to recover....and say £5-8m of that needs to be found to stay inside FFP (on average).

Having said that, last year’s accounts (18/19) have positioned us where we probably stay “squad neutral”, that is, whatever you generate in sales you can spend...just don’t increase the wage bill.

Although that sounds worrying, I would imagine there are 12-15 clubs (If not a few more) in much worse scenarios who will need to offload significantly.  Norwich will be ok when they come down.  Villa will be in a very difficult situation.  Bournemouth will be if they don’t bounce back straight away....likely the same for West Ham.  Watford probably ok.

 

[Lrrr]

I remembered clubs dismissing the idea of statistical modelling being used to form as a way to end season labelling it 'football predictions', yet Tranmere's owner wants to propose

a)         The league table is calculated using a simple PPG basis;
b)         There is then applied to the table the statistical average actual margin for error over the last 3 years (being +6.3 or – 5.45%);
c)         Teams in the automatic promotion spots even where the margin for error is applied, should be automatically promoted;
d)         Teams in the play-off places or who could be in the play-off places where the margin for error is applied should be invited (but not compelled) to compete in a play-off tournament; and
e)         There would either be no relegations, or relegations only of clubs who would be relegated even after the margin of error has been applied

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

I remembered clubs dismissing the idea of statistical modelling being used to form as a way to end season labelling it 'football predictions', yet Tranmere's owner wants to propose

a)         The league table is calculated using a simple PPG basis;
b)         There is then applied to the table the statistical average actual margin for error over the last 3 years (being +6.3 or – 5.45%);
c)         Teams in the automatic promotion spots even where the margin for error is applied, should be automatically promoted;
d)         Teams in the play-off places or who could be in the play-off places where the margin for error is applied should be invited (but not compelled) to compete in a play-off tournament; and
e)         There would either be no relegations, or relegations only of clubs who would be relegated even after the margin of error has been applied

I just read that article.  Can you explain b)?

[Lrrr]

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I just read that article.  Can you explain b)?

Not 100% sure but I think its in PPG the margin of error when calculating remaining points from PPG over the last 3 years you either have an extra 6.3% or 5.45% less points so all teams would have in effect 3 points totals the upper margin of error, actual ppg and lower margin of error. Its needed for point D, any teams upper margin of error that would see them finish 6th against other teams actual would see them invited to the play off tournament as there's a decent chance they could still get to the play offs seeing out the season. This would probably mean in the championship we'd be involved in a play off tournament given how close to Preston we are.

In reality its to pander to the likes of DMaC so they support the idea because the idea includes no relegation as the leagues will need a solution to be applied should the league not be able to finish the season (second wave, localised lockdown stopping too many areas) and the likes of DMaC and other chairman/owners of teams around them would favour a plan that gives them a shot of play offs.

 

[wayne allisons tongues]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

Not 100% sure but I think its in PPG the margin of error when calculating remaining points from PPG over the last 3 years you either have an extra 6.3% or 5.45% less points so all teams would have in effect 3 points totals the upper margin of error, actual ppg and lower margin of error. Its needed for point D, any teams upper margin of error that would see them finish 6th against other teams actual would see them invited to the play off tournament as there's a decent chance they could still get to the play offs seeing out the season. This would probably mean in the championship we'd be involved in a play off tournament given how close to Preston we are.

In reality its to pander to the likes of DMaC so they support the idea because the idea includes no relegation as the leagues will need a solution to be applied should the league not be able to finish the season (second wave, localised lockdown stopping too many areas) and the likes of DMaC and other chairman/owners of teams around them would favour a plan that gives them a shot of play offs.

 

Also this idea was drawn up by Tranmere who are in the relegation zone. They have conveniently drawn up a plan that with error involved they will not be relegated but by PPG they will. 
 

If league 1 is going to have this plan then L2 should as well. How big will  L1 be next season if 2 down that’s 3 spots available but with play offs your going to have a 25 team league. 
Does that mean L2 will have 22 Teams 4 up 2 down  and if Stevenage are relegated 3 will need to go up from NL which then leaves the NL 2 teams short.

All seems very messy just to save themselves from relegation. 

[Lrrr]

3 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Also this idea was drawn up by Tranmere who are in the relegation zone. They have conveniently drawn up a plan that with error involved they will not be relegated but by PPG they will. 

The margin of error doesn't even effect them, one of the points is flat out no relegation. The margin of error is purely to appeal to other teams to vote for it to benefit their sides while then benefiting themselves.

[wayne allisons tongues]

1 minute ago, hodge said:

The margin of error doesn't even effect them, one of the points is flat out no relegation. The margin of error is purely to appeal to other teams to vote for it to benefit their sides while then benefiting themselves.

Read point e they have presented.

[Lrrr]

Just now, wayne allisons tongues said:

Read point e they have presented.

Ah I stopped reading after no relegation  Pretty sure I haven't explained it right then as the way I did I don't think they'd survive