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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport


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1 hour ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

I get your sentiment, but I'm not wondering around. I'm at work. The government has allowed us to do this. 

And by not supporting the self employed to the same extent as everyone else, there making us make a very hard choice. 

Your point should be directed at the government. 'support the SE so they stop going out' or something like that. Not, 'pick who lives you monster'. 

We just want a fair crack, nothing more.

If No1 was getting paid to sit at home and they had the choice to work they would be if they had too.  End of.

Ok, I'll be fair, thanks for replying, I don't think you're the bad guy here, fully understand your dilemma, I've got friends/relatives in similar situations , jobs/business going under , it's a complete nightmare. I don't have an answer , the government are nowhere near having an answer and fair enough I've targeted you to make a point. I'd prefer to have a go at the weekends daytrippers but they're not posting on here.

Just begging people to listen to the advice (albeit ambiguous) we're being given, and if not just look at Italy/Spain/France to see what's coming . It's about to become very bad

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11 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

So the guys who laid my drive, erected my fences, built my wall, tiled my bathroom, fitted worktops and wall mirrors, and fixed my leaky plumbing who all asked for payment in cash all declared it?

Not a chance.

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15 minutes ago, walnutroof said:

Passenger numbers have fallen off a cliff, i drove a train on Sunday and the passengers could’ve had a carriage each which is extreme social distancing, and had the government not stepped in the private operators would’ve just handed back the keys 

Does mean technically I’m now a government employee 

Also means that all projects working on rail improvements have now stopped and my son will probably be out of work tomorrow :(

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6 minutes ago, reddoc said:

Ok, I'll be fair, thanks for replying, I don't think you're the bad guy here, fully understand your dilemma, I've got friends/relatives in similar situations , jobs/business going under , it's a complete nightmare. I don't have an answer , the government are nowhere near having an answer and fair enough I've targeted you to make a point. I'd prefer to have a go at the weekends daytrippers but they're not posting on here.

Just begging people to listen to the advice (albeit ambiguous) we're being given, and if not just look at Italy/Spain/France to see what's coming . It's about to become very bad

Yeah very much support you sentiment. And your message is 100% correct. Stay at home. 

I was expecting empty roads and ghost towns today. Shockingly it was as if nothing has happened. Old lady walking to the shop (at least 80)

Kids playing in the street. 

Endless runners and cyclists. 

I get we need to get me home. But these are easier fixes. Because your right, This is going south. 

Stay safe fella

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After the address to the nation by Boris last night, I made a decision to cancel the work I had booked in for today and for the foreseeable future. Being a self-employed sole trader that obviously has massive financial implications that I was willing to accept.

I also felt though that the decision would help protect myself and others. Into the small hours and after many conversations with mates in the same situation there were two schools of thought. The message from the government was rather ambiguous, so some were going to carry on as normal, some weren't. All were confused as to what financial support, if any, would be forthcoming in the near future.

I can't work from home, I have to travel to customers premises to fix problems. Some aspects of my job are essential for their wellbeing.

During the night I received a text from a customer who had a desperate emergency. I attended this morning to rectify. I considered it an essential repair. They certainly did and we're most grateful. Whilst on that job I received a similar call, attended and rectified again. It was now the afternoon and I was in my working stride. Again the phone rang, another essential job, which i attended and fortunately rectified again. I called one of the customers that I cancelled to see if she wanted me to attend to her non essential job, she was very happy for me to visit, so I did. To me she was non essential, to her it was very much required due to her mobility issues.

So, I am now back working as normally as possible, whilst being very aware of mine and others wellbeing. I fully understand if I'm not needed or welcome at this present time, both my customers and I call it how we see it.

Unless the government can support tradesmen adequately, I and many others will continue to trade.

If forced to stop working I shall. However, it will be extremely hard for me to leave people in a desperate state and open to being ripped off by lesser operators than myself.

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Somebody - and I forget who, for which I apologise - posted this link earlier:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Now, the link is constantly updated, but, at the time of posting, I note the following figures (ranked by number of cases):

Italy: 69,176 cases/6,820 deaths - 9.86%

Spain: 39,676 cases/2,800 deaths - 7.06% 

Germany: 32,781 cases/157 deaths - 0.48%

France: 22,616 cases/1,102 deaths - 4.88%

UK: 8,164 cases/423 deaths - 5.19%

Over and above the comparitively low percentage death rates in Germany, however, was the disparity in recovery rates.

You can check on the link, but they are:

Italy: 69,176 cases/8,326 recoveries - 12.04%

Spain: 39,676 cases/3,794 recoveries - 9.57% 

Germany: 32,781 cases/3,243 recoveries - 9.90%

France: 22,616 cases/3,288 recoveries - 14.54%

UK: 8,164 cases/140 recoveries - 1.72%

I understand that statistics can often be misleading, and we (The UK) are perhaps two weeks or so behind the other countries listed, but I find these figures quite concerning, especially if, as I am convinced will be the case, the number of UK cases explodes in the next few weeks due to the belated 'enforced' lock-down and the seemingly lackadaisical manner in which it is being adopted by too many blasé idiots.  

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11 minutes ago, freezer said:

After the address to the nation by Boris last night, I made a decision to cancel the work I had booked in for today and for the foreseeable future. Being a self-employed sole trader that obviously has massive financial implications that I was willing to accept.

I also felt though that the decision would help protect myself and others. Into the small hours and after many conversations with mates in the same situation there were two schools of thought. The message from the government was rather ambiguous, so some were going to carry on as normal, some weren't. All were confused as to what financial support, if any, would be forthcoming in the near future.

I can't work from home, I have to travel to customers premises to fix problems. Some aspects of my job are essential for their wellbeing.

During the night I received a text from a customer who had a desperate emergency. I attended this morning to rectify. I considered it an essential repair. They certainly did and we're most grateful. Whilst on that job I received a similar call, attended and rectified again. It was now the afternoon and I was in my working stride. Again the phone rang, another essential job, which i attended and fortunately rectified again. I called one of the customers that I cancelled to see if she wanted me to attend to her non essential job, she was very happy for me to visit, so I did. To me she was non essential, to her it was very much required due to her mobility issues.

So, I am now back working as normally as possible, whilst being very aware of mine and others wellbeing. I fully understand if I'm not needed or welcome at this present time, both my customers and I call it how we see it.

Unless the government can support tradesmen adequately, I and many others will continue to trade.

If forced to stop working I shall. However, it will be extremely hard for me to leave people in a desperate state and open to being ripped off by lesser operators than myself.

The lack of clarity was un real. 

After re playing the speach several times I came to the conclusion that they left the door open for trades to go to work if they cannot afford not to. Untill they sort out the support stuff. 

Sounds like you may be a key worker on a lock down (or atleast part of your business).  what sort of thing do you do?

Edited by Robin-hugh-blind
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6 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Maybe I have missed something, but none of this started because some Chinese chap had some bat soup, there is much more to this.

Didn't SARS came from the same source (not the same bloke or bat)

 

2 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Somebody - and I forget who, for which I apologise - posted this link earlier:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Now, the link is constantly updated, but, at the time of posting, I note the following figures (ranked by number of cases):

Italy: 69,176 cases/6,820 deaths - 9.86%

Spain: 39,676 cases/2,800 deaths - 7.06% 

Germany: 32,781 cases/157 deaths - 0.48%

France: 22,616 cases/1,102 deaths - 4.88%

UK: 8,164 cases/423 deaths - 5.19%

Over and above the comparitively low percentage death rates in Germany, however, was the disparity in recovery rates.

You can check on the link, but they are:

Italy: 69,176 cases/8,326 recoveries - 12.04%

Spain: 39,676 cases/3,794 recoveries - 9.57% 

Germany: 32,781 cases/3,243 recoveries - 9.90%

France: 22,616 cases/3,288 recoveries - 14.54%

UK: 8,164 cases/140 recoveries - 1.72%

I understand that statistics can often be misleading, and we (The UK) are perhaps two weeks or so behind the other countries listed, but I find these figures quite concerning, especially if, as I am convinced will be the case, the number of UK cases explodes in the next few weeks due to the belated 'enforced' lock-down and the seemingly lackadaisical manner in which it is being adopted by too many blasé idiots.  

It was me that posted the link.

Be careful of comparisons though - there are probably tens of thousands more cases in the UK, just not recorded.

And countries have different methods of measurements and there are valid reasons why Germanys stats seem out of kilter with elsewhere but may be more realistic than those of Italy.

This link shows individual stats with dates which shows the curve of the virus expansion (substitute the country name with whatever country you want to look at);

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

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1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Surely they know the tax returns for the self employed, just as the have the PAYE details for those on that.  I appreciate it isn't going to be a two minute job to collate all of that info and ensure the right people get it, but they have the info.  I assume if you don't PAYE or submit a tax return you are a pensioner or on benefit, so will get paid, if no records you would be part of the black economy, so won't get a bean

This is where self employed people (the dodgy ones , its cash in hand guvnor!) will have wished they had not taken those cash in hand jobs, off the books to save themselves some tax returns.

 

Now many are up in arms that they are not getting paid and or wont be getting paid much due to their tax returns.

 

My cousin is one of these tax Dodgers and he is screaming blue murder at the government, he hasn't mentioned the thousands upon thousands of pounds he hasn't paid in tax over the years, which he could of saved for such an event such as this (better still he would have paid the tax due) but instead spunked away on things he didn't need.

 

Yes you cannot tar all self employed people with the same brush, but their are a load out there that will have bought this misery on themselves and contributed in a small way to bringing this country to its knees buy reducing funding for key services.

And those who pay for jobs cash in hand should also take a look at themselves.. also contributing the reduction of funding to key services.  Of gunding of public services themselves has been mismanaged for years, but that is another debate.

Some self employed  people.... Sow what reap you..... rearrange.

I genuinely feel sorry for all those that have complied with tax laws and hope you get your money very soon.

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2 hours ago, QuedgeRed said:

We haven’t counted today’s deaths have we?

Our latest figures would be from the 23rd??

Don't know for sure. 

That is todays figure 422 dead up 87 on yesterday, Italy's equivalent 14 days ago was 631. it had been 463  so up 168 on the previous day.

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7 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

Didn't SARS came from the same source (not the same bloke or bat)

 

It was me that posted the link.

Be careful of comparisons though - there are probably tens of thousands more cases in the UK, just not recorded.

And countries have different methods of measurements and there are valid reasons why Germanys stats seem out of kilter with elsewhere but may be more realistic than those of Italy.

This link shows individual stats with dates which shows the curve of the virus expansion (substitute the country name with whatever country you want to look at);

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

Don’t know fella, but it seems strange to me that the source is not being discussed by the government or the media - there is more to this.

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12 minutes ago, TRL said:

This is where self employed people (the dodgy ones , its cash in hand guvnor!) will have wished they had not taken those cash in hand jobs, off the books to save themselves some tax returns.

 

Now many are up in arms that they are not getting paid and or wont be getting paid much due to their tax returns.

 

My cousin is one of these tax Dodgers and he is screaming blue murder at the government, he hasn't mentioned the thousands upon thousands of pounds he hasn't paid in tax over the years, which he could of saved for such an event such as this (better still he would have paid the tax due) but instead spunked away on things he didn't need.

 

Yes you cannot tar all self employed people with the same brush, but their are a load out there that will have bought this misery on themselves and contributed in a small way to bringing this country to its knees buy reducing funding for key services.

And those who pay for jobs cash in hand should also take a look at themselves.. also contributing the reduction of funding to key services.  Of gunding of public services themselves has been mismanaged for years, but that is another debate.

Some self employed  people.... Sow what reap you..... rearrange.

I genuinely feel sorry for all those that have complied with tax laws and hope you get your money very soon.

I don't think anyone will have sympathy at all for anyone who has dodged tax and they will get less now. The issue to me with the ease at which people think all self employed are tax dodgers is ridiculous though (and probably pay cash for jobs themselves). It seems to me that many seem to think that all self employed people are all in the building trade or jobs where they all go around houses to do jobs (and ask for cash).

Many self employed people will run businesses where they don't even take cash at all, and sole traders who will have every single transaction that has gone through their bank accounts etc.

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2 minutes ago, ScottishRed said:

Don’t know fella, but it seems strange to me that the source is not being discussed by the government or the media - there is more to this.

They do have a lab in Wuhan which questions were asked about safety back in 2017. I was taking talking to someone yesterday regarding not trusting China and wanting to crush the worlds economy for they're own gain. 

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26 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Somebody - and I forget who, for which I apologise - posted this link earlier:

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

Now, the link is constantly updated, but, at the time of posting, I note the following figures (ranked by number of cases):

Italy: 69,176 cases/6,820 deaths - 9.86%

Spain: 39,676 cases/2,800 deaths - 7.06% 

Germany: 32,781 cases/157 deaths - 0.48%

France: 22,616 cases/1,102 deaths - 4.88%

UK: 8,164 cases/423 deaths - 5.19%

Over and above the comparitively low percentage death rates in Germany, however, was the disparity in recovery rates.

You can check on the link, but they are:

Italy: 69,176 cases/8,326 recoveries - 12.04%

Spain: 39,676 cases/3,794 recoveries - 9.57% 

Germany: 32,781 cases/3,243 recoveries - 9.90%

France: 22,616 cases/3,288 recoveries - 14.54%

UK: 8,164 cases/140 recoveries - 1.72%

I understand that statistics can often be misleading, and we (The UK) are perhaps two weeks or so behind the other countries listed, but I find these figures quite concerning, especially if, as I am convinced will be the case, the number of UK cases explodes in the next few weeks due to the belated 'enforced' lock-down and the seemingly lackadaisical manner in which it is being adopted by too many blasé idiots.  

But if we are as you say two weeks behind of course there haven't been as many recoveries yet. It's also very likely those other countries have tested a lot more people. I'm doubtful we only have 8,164 cases which is why our figures pro rata look worse than a lot of the other countries.

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12 minutes ago, paul_fox said:

They do have a lab in Wuhan which questions were asked about safety back in 2017. I was taking talking to someone yesterday regarding not trusting China and wanting to crush the worlds economy for they're own gain. 

Don’t know about that mate, but this is more sinister than it appears. IMHO.

There is much more too this

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26 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

It was me that posted the link. Thanks, and Sorry I omitted to quote you.

Be careful of comparisons though - there are probably tens of thousands more cases in the UK, just not recorded. Undoubtedly, and this is why I am convinced the UK figures are going to explode in the next few weeks, perhaps even sooner.

And countries have different methods of measurements and there are valid reasons why Germanys stats seem out of kilter with elsewhere but may be more realistic than those of Italy. Indeed, and the reasons for Germany's apparently 'low' Covid-19 figures have been well-documented (younger people contracting in Italy during ski holidays, more ICUs and fewer post mortems following death by, e.g. heart failure). You may be interested to know that, in France, only those dying of Covid-19 in hospital are recorded as such, i.e. the 100 or so that have died of Covid-19 in retirement/care homes have not been recorded, nor have those dying at home before being admitted to hospital.

 

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36 minutes ago, TRL said:

This is where self employed people (the dodgy ones , its cash in hand guvnor!) will have wished they had not taken those cash in hand jobs, off the books to save themselves some tax returns.

 

Now many are up in arms that they are not getting paid and or wont be getting paid much due to their tax returns.

 

My cousin is one of these tax Dodgers and he is screaming blue murder at the government, he hasn't mentioned the thousands upon thousands of pounds he hasn't paid in tax over the years, which he could of saved for such an event such as this (better still he would have paid the tax due) but instead spunked away on things he didn't need.

 

Yes you cannot tar all self employed people with the same brush, but their are a load out there that will have bought this misery on themselves and contributed in a small way to bringing this country to its knees buy reducing funding for key services.

And those who pay for jobs cash in hand should also take a look at themselves.. also contributing the reduction of funding to key services.  Of gunding of public services themselves has been mismanaged for years, but that is another debate.

Some self employed  people.... Sow what reap you..... rearrange.

I genuinely feel sorry for all those that have complied with tax laws and hope you get your money very soon.

I think you may be a bit confused here or maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

It is usually the case that the tax dodger is the person who is paying for the work "can you do it cheaper for cash guvnor?"

Naturally if there's a bit of VAT to evade along the way then so much the better.

In my experience, the self-employed person will be pressed to drop his rate in order to receive cash.  He is then faced with the prospect of paying tax on an underpaid job or keeping the whole amount which is more or less equal to the amount he would have ended up with if he'd have been paid the going rate.

I think you are doing the self-employed a terrible injustice.

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1 hour ago, Robin-hugh-blind said:

That's very assumptive. In fact any self employed subcontractors pay there tax in advance and its paid by the person that pays them. It isn't like it used to be. Everyone pays by bank transfer. I would say anyone with a turn over of £35k plus simply cannot avoid paying the correct amount of tax. Only the small 'cash in hand' workers have the opportunity to avoid tax. And this will (or should) bite them on the arse now. 

Exactly. There's a lot of ignorant comments on here.

And as I pointed out much earlier in this thread CIS self employed have already contributed too much tax during the present financial year. That's the way it's done.

As HMRC issue tax rebates following CIS tax returns against a sub contractor's UTR I don't see why it would be that difficult to provide the appropriate financial support by the same method.

IR35 cases may be more difficult/complicated, I have no experience with this. But getting help to at least some CIS self employed would be a start and demonstrate that something was being done.

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47 minutes ago, TRL said:

This is where self employed people (the dodgy ones , its cash in hand guvnor!) will have wished they had not taken those cash in hand jobs, off the books to save themselves some tax returns.

 

Now many are up in arms that they are not getting paid and or wont be getting paid much due to their tax returns.

 

My cousin is one of these tax Dodgers and he is screaming blue murder at the government, he hasn't mentioned the thousands upon thousands of pounds he hasn't paid in tax over the years, which he could of saved for such an event such as this (better still he would have paid the tax due) but instead spunked away on things he didn't need.

 

Yes you cannot tar all self employed people with the same brush, but their are a load out there that will have bought this misery on themselves and contributed in a small way to bringing this country to its knees buy reducing funding for key services.

And those who pay for jobs cash in hand should also take a look at themselves.. also contributing the reduction of funding to key services.  Of gunding of public services themselves has been mismanaged for years, but that is another debate.

Some self employed  people.... Sow what reap you..... rearrange.

I genuinely feel sorry for all those that have complied with tax laws and hope you get your money very soon.

This, this and this. A family member is SE and always had wads of notes in his wallet. He once told me the percentage of his earnings that goes through the taxman, and while I dont recall the exact number, it was shockingly low. He even said the accountants, well his anyway, know that its going on.

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11 minutes ago, Frenchay Red said:

Exactly. There's a lot of ignorant comments on here.

And as I pointed out much earlier in this thread CIS self employed have already contributed too much tax during the present financial year. That's the way it's done.

As HMRC issue tax rebates following CIS tax returns against a sub contractor's UTR I don't see why it would be that difficult to provide the appropriate financial support by the same method.

IR35 cases may be more difficult/complicated, I have no experience with this. But getting help to at least some CIS self employed would be a start and demonstrate that something was being done.

IR35 was brought in originally because IT contractors were taking the piss and not paying their way. the few spoil it for the many, as per norm.  

Edited by reddoh
IT not it
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44 minutes ago, pillred said:

But if we are as you say two weeks behind of course there haven't been as many recoveries yet. It's also very likely those other countries have tested a lot more people. I'm doubtful we only have 8,164 cases which is why our figures pro rata look worse than a lot of the other countries.

Of course other countries such as those I mentioned (Italy, Spain, Germany and France) will have tested more people, the virus manifested itself much sooner.

My point is that our &age recovery rate is much, much lower - we had our first fatality on 7 March.

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27 minutes ago, Delta said:

I think you may be a bit confused here or maybe you don't know what you are talking about.

It is usually the case that the tax dodger is the person who is paying for the work "can you do it cheaper for cash guvnor?"

Naturally if there's a bit of VAT to evade along the way then so much the better.

In my experience, the self-employed person will be pressed to drop his rate in order to receive cash.  He is then faced with the prospect of paying tax on an underpaid job or keeping the whole amount which is more or less equal to the amount he would have ended up with if he'd have been paid the going rate.

I think you are doing the self-employed a terrible injustice.

I don't think you read my whole post or you would have read the part where I say those looking to pay cash in hand are just as culpable.

If someone is pushing the quote down and looking to offer cash for obvious reasons then the easy answer, don't accept the offer and insist on auditable payment. If everyone did that that the everyone would get paid a fair wage for a fair job without the unscrupulous undercutting. 

Anway i've made my point and it's only aimed at the cash in hand merchants, no one else.

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3 minutes ago, PHILINFRANCE said:

Of course other countries such as those I mentioned (Italy, Spain, Germany and France) will have tested more people, the virus manifested itself much sooner.

My point is that our &age recovery rate is much, much lower - we had our first fatality on 7 March.

There do seem to be some strange anomalies Germanys very low death rate % wise, and as you say our recovery rate, puzzling to say the least.

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6 hours ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

Didn`t they try and lock down one region (Lombardy?) but news got out and thousands legged it to other parts of the country? Mind you, it seems so long ago now that I could be mistaken.

Leaked out and an exodus before they could. Lombardy was the epicentre, but that's the gist of what happened in that respect. 

I fear the same has happened with respect to London, our epicentre  but I hope to be wrong!

@bcfc01 Think they also lifted kickdown too soon, at least early. As in bars- bars ffs- were restored to usual hours, reopened. 

Saw an article where a leader went into a bar, regional leader in Milan in late February, early March and encouraged people to come out etc, go for an aperitif, that kind of thing. 

Unsure if they closed the factories in Lombardy until recently which is even worse. That bit less clear however.

Number of errors- errors that we must learn from...

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6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Leaked out and an exodus before they could. Lombardy was the epicentre, but that's the gist of what happened in that respect. 

I fear the same has happened with respect to London, our epicentre  but I hope to be wrong!

@bcfc01 Think they also lifted kickdown too soon, at least early. As in bars- bars ffs- were restored to usual hours, reopened. 

Saw an article where a leader went into a bar, regional leader in Milan in late February, early March and encouraged people to come out etc, go for an aperitif, that kind of thing. 

Unsure if they closed the factories in Lombardy until recently which is even worse. That bit less clear however.

Number of errors- errors that we must learn from...

we are going to have a lessons learned meeting(2+) so we take on board the mistakes we made and learn from them then (public breath a big sigh of relief)  we can't afford to implement it because it stops me getting a big new shiny car 

says Boris.

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6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Leaked out and an exodus before they could. Lombardy was the epicentre, but that's the gist of what happened in that respect. 

I fear the same has happened with respect to London, our epicentre  but I hope to be wrong!

@bcfc01 Think they also lifted kickdown too soon, at least early. As in bars- bars ffs- were restored to usual hours, reopened. 

Saw an article where a leader went into a bar, regional leader in Milan in late February, early March and encouraged people to come out etc, go for an aperitif, that kind of thing. 

Unsure if they closed the factories in Lombardy until recently which is even worse. That bit less clear however.

Number of errors- errors that we must learn from...

The UK has had more than two weeks to learn and, even now, the lockdown is only 'advisory' as it won't become law until Thursday, earliest.

I have witnessed this drama for weeks now and have had the distressing experience of meeting several hospital consultants - wise, professional and rational people - almost in tears as they have tried to explain to me their fears that the general population are just not taking this seriously enough.

Their prediction, based on the number of cases arriving in our local hospitals - in a 'privileged' area of France that is not considered a hotspot, or cluster - is that up to 10,000 will have died in France by the end of April. 

I was given this projected figure in early March, when the death toll was still in single figures - we are now in excess of 1,200. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, BanburyRed said:

Appalling animal husbandry. 

They seem to eat pretty well anything. Someone told me that Chinese have pet hens, pet chickens as in living with them in the hoke- dunno if that's true but their animal husbandry, their wet markets (is that the name?) seems to carry a significant risk.

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