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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport


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3 minutes ago, hodge said:

IF we reached a point where no more games this season could be played I would rather a vote to finish the season as is rather than null and void. If you look at the premier league table, do Spurs deserve another season of champions league football (if there is one) over Leicester being 10 points behind? Do Arsenal deserve another season of Europa league over Wolves/Sheffield Utd? Do Norwich deserve another season of premier league riches when they're adrift at the bottom of the table, in league 1 would Bolton deserve to go through another season of a -12 points deficit or allow them a season in league 2 level on points. leagues like Scotland and National league aren't null and voiding they're calling as is, allow the last several months of sport to still mean something, whether it means ppg calculations or tables as they are.

Also the non leagues have had to end as they can't afford to wait it out, l2/l1 may not be able to but championship and prem can afford to wait it out, look abroad to other countries have their domestic leagues called it quits yet? Its not like English leagues are different.

Non league ended because they were told they had to, had no say in the matter, below NL level.
 

With Nicola Sturgeon saying mass gatherings and groups being one of the last things lifted Chris Whitey saying social distancing for foreseeable future we can’t just go on forever waiting. Holland and Belgium have so far ended there seasons, Scotland have as well just deciding how to finish or restructure.

You can’t say L1 and L2 finish and Champ PL can how is that fair on clubs top of the table in L1. I’m sure champ clubs will say why should we go down if they are not playing to go up. You have Accrington saying if they played rest of there games behind closed doors it will basically finish them off along with other clubs.

Dont mind if they end the season with positions as they are and say that’s it. Should be a level playing field for everyone and not we have money we can do what we want. Clubs are not interested in integrity of the leagues at PL champ level it’s all about money and there selfishness now. Same with UEFA constantly moving dates back for the CL final so they can get there money. 

 

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5 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Non league ended because they were told they had to, had no say in the matter, below NL level.
 

With Nicola Sturgeon saying mass gatherings and groups being one of the last things lifted Chris Whitey saying social distancing for foreseeable future we can’t just go on forever waiting. Holland and Belgium have so far ended there seasons, Scotland have as well just deciding how to finish or restructure.

You can’t say L1 and L2 finish and Champ PL can how is that fair on clubs top of the table in L1. I’m sure champ clubs will say why should we go down if they are not playing to go up. You have Accrington saying if they played rest of there games behind closed doors it will basically finish them off along with other clubs.

Dont mind if they end the season with positions as they are and say that’s it. Should be a level playing field for everyone and not we have money we can do what we want. Clubs are not interested in integrity of the leagues at PL champ level it’s all about money and there selfishness now. Same with UEFA constantly moving dates back for the CL final so they can get there money. 

 

Depends when lockdown is lifted what social distancing measures remain and the definition of 'mass gathering', some will have to be relaxed or a lot of people still won't be able to return to work, if this extent allows then games can be played behind closed doors as a lot of people working at a football game (say approx 100) don't need to come in contact with each other. Dutch league looks over because their government specifically banned events which includes sport until September 1st, it wasn't the leagues decision.

Personal opinion would be that the premier league should help all clubs in the league see this through without repayment if we really are 'all in this together'. The league makes by far more then enough to help, based on an website with an educated guess of prize money break down for this season if you took 1% of each clubs proposed prize money you'd have over £24,000,000, so a few percent and you could see every l1/l2 club through this period.

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1 hour ago, hodge said:

IF we reached a point where no more games this season could be played I would rather a vote to finish the season as is rather than null and void. If you look at the premier league table, do Spurs deserve another season of champions league football (if there is one) over Leicester being 10 points behind? Do Arsenal deserve another season of Europa league over Wolves/Sheffield Utd? Do Norwich deserve another season of premier league riches when they're adrift at the bottom of the table, in league 1 would Bolton deserve to go through another season of a -12 points deficit or allow them a season in league 2 level on points. leagues like Scotland and National league aren't null and voiding they're calling as is, allow the last several months of sport to still mean something, whether it means ppg calculations or tables as they are.

Also the non leagues have had to end as they can't afford to wait it out, l2/l1 may not be able to but championship and prem can afford to wait it out, look abroad to other countries have their domestic leagues called it quits yet? Its not like English leagues are different.

You realise if the season was rerun, Norwich for example wouldn't get another season of riches?

I really couldn't see broadcasters a) Being willing to and b) Being able to pay out another £100m per club off the back of eg a voided season.

That money or the appropriate % of money due would be clawed back one way or the other.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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The Club will be refunding season tickets for this year but what about season tickets for next ?

This will have a massive impact on clubs revenue. What's more they already have a LOT of money in the bank as we did our renewal process early. The club wont have spent this money but they would never have dreamed of needing to refund it at the time .

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

You realise if the season was rerun, Norwich for example wouldn't get another season of riches?

Would have thought they'd have owed the remainder of what was left for the season, but then upon the start of a new season they'd have received a big fresh wad of money again, its not being re-run the current season would be voided or called as is and then a new season starting. Clubs aren't going to hand back the whole seasons worth of money as sky still showed a product for those games where they were on tv, so it would just be the last 9 games worth (or however many is left)

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44 minutes ago, The Humble Realist said:

The Club will be refunding season tickets for this year but what about season tickets for next ?

This will have a massive impact on clubs revenue. What's more they already have a LOT of money in the bank as we did our renewal process early. The club wont have spent this money but they would never have dreamed of needing to refund it at the time .

 

I think 20/21 season tickets will be transferred over into paying for subscriptions for City World or similar as the whole season goes on internet / TV only (or until there is a cure) 

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2 hours ago, Super said:

The Bundesliga is ready to return on May 9 if the German government gives it the green light, league officials have confirmed.

Time to adopt a German team.

We should all take interest in this because it will be a case study in how a league can transition from lockdown to resumption. If any nation is able to do this in a sensible and reasonable fashion, it is Germany. 

Edited by mozo
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1 hour ago, xerox6060 said:

I think 20/21 season tickets will be transferred over into paying for subscriptions for City World or similar as the whole season goes on internet / TV only (or until there is a cure) 

You can't charge people 20 pound per match though when they aren't actually attending.

Plus for bigger teams like Leeds , why would their fans be happy at being charged 20 pound per match AND their sky subscription when the game is on sky. 

Multiply this times 10 for Liverpool , man u etc...

I think they'll have to offer refunds and then ask fans who want to watch to pay on a game by game basis. 

Also...working in IT I cant see them building a system that recognises season ticket holders from everyone else in the current climate...they can barely operate a decent ticketing service online in normal times !!

 

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One to chuck into the mix though I appreciate it will be highly unlikely. With a 27000 seater stadium we could limit the actual attendance to something like 3000-5000. That would mean each supporter could have 2-3 seats from the next one. Obviously you still have to enter exit the stadium but going to the shops you are still near to people. As I said highly unlikely but a very small possibility.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

We should all take interest in this because it will be a case study in how a league can transition from lockdown to resumption. If any nation is able to do this in a sensible and reasonable fashion, it is Germany. 

Agreed- they are likely to be the first I'd have thought.

Also worth noting that the maximum proposed people in there are 300- presumably that includes players, staff, support staff etc- am guessing it'd be behind closed doors, any May return there.

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2 hours ago, xerox6060 said:

I think 20/21 season tickets will be transferred over into paying for subscriptions for City World or similar as the whole season goes on internet / TV only (or until there is a cure) 

I think there will be various options personally;

Get your money back

Accept a subscription to Robins TV in lieu (assuming 3pm Saturday games could be shown) - if they include home and away it looks a pretty good deal. For my SS ST it would work out at just under £8 a game. Even if it was just home I`d probably still go for it - once I`ve factored in not having to travel 120 miles each way it`s not bad at all.

Transfer your 20/21 ST to 21/22 and buy games from 20/21 as you want via Robins TV at the normal rate. 

 

This is all assuming, however,  there will be no football with crowds until the 21/22 season. If say, crowds are allowed for the second half of 20/21 it needs rethinking.

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2 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I think there will be various options personally;

Get your money back

Accept a subscription to Robins TV in lieu (assuming 3pm Saturday games could be shown) - if they include home and away it looks a pretty good deal. For my SS ST it would work out at just under £8 a game. Even if it was just home I`d probably still go for it - once I`ve factored in not having to travel 120 miles each way it`s not bad at all.

Transfer your 20/21 ST to 21/22 and buy games from 20/21 as you want via Robins TV at the normal rate. 

 

This is all assuming, however,  there will be no football with crowds until the 21/22 season. If say, crowds are allowed for the second half of 20/21 it needs rethinking.

I hope they do something like this.

I’ve already paid for my season ticket so that money has been forgotten, therefore, for me, I’m happy for them to keep it and offer me something in lieu of admittance. 
 

The above is my situation, there will though be people who will be struggling for money. I hope the club recognises this.

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2 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

I hope they do something like this.

I’ve already paid for my season ticket so that money has been forgotten, therefore, for me, I’m happy for them to keep it and offer me something in lieu of admittance. 
 

The above is my situation, there will though be people who will be struggling for money. I hope the club recognises this.

Me too - I`ve paid for it and it`s gone but I recognise there are people for whom the money is important at this moment in time. What I would also hope is that anyone who needs to have a refund isn`t penalised for future seasons and is treated as an existing ST holder who has had to take a `pause` option due to no fault of their own. They should be able for instance to reclaim their seat at existing ST holders` prices when all this is behind us.

They`ll have to offer a refund I think. If you can`t actually receive the product you`ve paid for i.e. watching live football from your paid for seat in a stadium then I presume a refund would be assured under the Sale Of Goods Act(?). I doubt it would go that far though and City would do the right thing I hope.

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1 hour ago, Snufflelufagus said:

One to chuck into the mix though I appreciate it will be highly unlikely. With a 27000 seater stadium we could limit the actual attendance to something like 3000-5000. That would mean each supporter could have 2-3 seats from the next one. Obviously you still have to enter exit the stadium but going to the shops you are still near to people. As I said highly unlikely but a very small possibility.

Are people really that desperate to watch football?

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1 hour ago, Snufflelufagus said:

One to chuck into the mix though I appreciate it will be highly unlikely. With a 27000 seater stadium we could limit the actual attendance to something like 3000-5000. That would mean each supporter could have 2-3 seats from the next one. Obviously you still have to enter exit the stadium but going to the shops you are still near to people. As I said highly unlikely but a very small possibility.

Like assemblies used to be at school, file out once the row in front of you had left, would it be quicker or slower of getting out the Dolman? :laugh:

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Plymouth chairman

Hi everyone,

I thought I would write a note to update you on what is going on at Argyle, and more broadly in the English Football League, to answer some of the questions posed by this virus-induced crisis.

Football clubs are obviously suffering financially from inability to play matches – they have no revenue, yet have continuing costs, including wages, for both players and non-football staff.

At Argyle we have reduced the impact of that problem by furloughing most staff, thus taking advantage of the government support scheme, but promising to top up all wages until June 30. We chose that date because it is the end of our financial year, and the date at which most player and loan contracts end. The club will, of course, lose money over that period, and I, as the major shareholder, will finance that loss.

We have been helped in managing cash flows by action taken by the EFL and the Premier League to accelerate payments due to us, and by HMRC in allowing us to delay payments of PAYE taxes that we owe (we do not owe any VAT). We have renegotiated some payment terms with our larger suppliers, but have committed to making our own payments to the smaller, often local, businesses that rely on us.

In the longer run, we need to manage the club so that our financial future is secure. That means that we need to be able to plan for a resumption of football, and income to cover our costs. The nature of the virus, however, means that that is impossible. We simply do not know when we will be able to resume playing football at all, let alone in front of the Green Army.

We do not want to play behind closed doors and believe that a resumption of football should not take place until it is safe for crowds to come and watch. That is partly for financial reasons; we need the revenues generated on match-day to pay the players - and no crowds means no revenues, unless some other body is prepared to fund our expenses.

More importantly, if it is not safe for a crowd to watch a contact sport, how can it be safe for a participant? We would respect any individual player who said he did not want to play until assured it was completely safe.

We suspect, therefore, that this season will not be completed in the normal way - by playing the remaining matches.

Alternatives include completely voiding the season, or halting it now, with those in the promotion positions being promoted (after adjusting for games in hand, based on average points per game already earned). This would mean promotion to League One for Argyle, but, believe it or not, that is not our priority. We think this is the fairest solution to an impossible situation. Note that we do not suggest relegation based on current league positions.

In thinking about the long-term future of football and the solvency of clubs, we support increased enforcement of existing EFL rules that govern how much clubs can spend on player wages - their largest expense, and the one that most often leads to financial calamity.

We think the current system needs some tweaks, but that increased monitoring of clubs’ finances and stronger enforcement against clubs breaking the rules and spending beyond their means would go a long way to making football more financially sustainable.

We would oppose any attempt to impose a “one size fits all” limit on player wages for each club in any division. We believe that clubs with greater resources should be able to pay higher aggregate levels of wages, and/or have larger squads.

The important criterion for us is that clubs’ revenues and expenses should match, or, if expenses exceed revenues, the shortfall should be made up with shareholders’ equity (not debt).

We believe that players’ wages are contracted and that clubs have an obligation to fulfill those contracts. We would not support a collective agreement to cut players’ wages. We recognize, however, that budgets for future seasons will be drastically reduced and new contracts are highly unlikely to be offered on terms similar to those given in previous years.

In the short-term, we also think that, once football is safe to restart, the transfer window should remain open for a continuous period, enabling clubs in financial stress to realise the value of player contracts where they are no longer in a position to pay contracted wages.

We think this crisis provides an opportunity to reset English football and the financial structures that support it. So, we also believe we should:

  • Restructure Academy compensation schemes, allowing clubs with successful academies to preserve the value of their players, and receive proper compensation for players who switch to other clubs in pursuit of professional contracts. Such restructuring would not only provide fair compensation, but help with the redistribution of wealth from upper echelons of the football pyramid.
  • Unify all the lower leagues in the football pyramid, enabling more extensive promotion and relegation between them. The result would be more fluidity throughout the pyramid, enabling clubs to find a level appropriate to their resources, without needing to face administration and without the apparent stigma of leaving the EFL.

We do not support restructuring the league into geographically-based divisions.

We have let the EFL know our position on these issues, but recognise that we will not always have our own way! There is a wide range of opinion within the League, reflecting the wide range of individual club circumstances.

The elected Board and the executives are working hard to find solutions that are best for the League as a whole. The Argyle board accepts that the wider interest – the survival of an effective football pyramid — is the goal we should all be trying to reach.

We own our stadium, are almost entirely debt free and I am prepared, in the short-term, to provide the financial support to see us through this difficult time.

Make no mistake though, this crisis has presented an existential threat to all football clubs. We are stronger than most, but not invincible.

Thank you for your support.

Simon

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50 minutes ago, hodge said:

Plymouth chairman

Hi everyone,

I thought I would write a note to update you on what is going on at Argyle, and more broadly in the English Football League, to answer some of the questions posed by this virus-induced crisis.

Football clubs are obviously suffering financially from inability to play matches – they have no revenue, yet have continuing costs, including wages, for both players and non-football staff.

At Argyle we have reduced the impact of that problem by furloughing most staff, thus taking advantage of the government support scheme, but promising to top up all wages until June 30. We chose that date because it is the end of our financial year, and the date at which most player and loan contracts end. The club will, of course, lose money over that period, and I, as the major shareholder, will finance that loss.

We have been helped in managing cash flows by action taken by the EFL and the Premier League to accelerate payments due to us, and by HMRC in allowing us to delay payments of PAYE taxes that we owe (we do not owe any VAT). We have renegotiated some payment terms with our larger suppliers, but have committed to making our own payments to the smaller, often local, businesses that rely on us.

In the longer run, we need to manage the club so that our financial future is secure. That means that we need to be able to plan for a resumption of football, and income to cover our costs. The nature of the virus, however, means that that is impossible. We simply do not know when we will be able to resume playing football at all, let alone in front of the Green Army.

We do not want to play behind closed doors and believe that a resumption of football should not take place until it is safe for crowds to come and watch. That is partly for financial reasons; we need the revenues generated on match-day to pay the players - and no crowds means no revenues, unless some other body is prepared to fund our expenses.

More importantly, if it is not safe for a crowd to watch a contact sport, how can it be safe for a participant? We would respect any individual player who said he did not want to play until assured it was completely safe.

We suspect, therefore, that this season will not be completed in the normal way - by playing the remaining matches.

Alternatives include completely voiding the season, or halting it now, with those in the promotion positions being promoted (after adjusting for games in hand, based on average points per game already earned). This would mean promotion to League One for Argyle, but, believe it or not, that is not our priority. We think this is the fairest solution to an impossible situation. Note that we do not suggest relegation based on current league positions.

In thinking about the long-term future of football and the solvency of clubs, we support increased enforcement of existing EFL rules that govern how much clubs can spend on player wages - their largest expense, and the one that most often leads to financial calamity.

We think the current system needs some tweaks, but that increased monitoring of clubs’ finances and stronger enforcement against clubs breaking the rules and spending beyond their means would go a long way to making football more financially sustainable.

We would oppose any attempt to impose a “one size fits all” limit on player wages for each club in any division. We believe that clubs with greater resources should be able to pay higher aggregate levels of wages, and/or have larger squads.

The important criterion for us is that clubs’ revenues and expenses should match, or, if expenses exceed revenues, the shortfall should be made up with shareholders’ equity (not debt).

We believe that players’ wages are contracted and that clubs have an obligation to fulfill those contracts. We would not support a collective agreement to cut players’ wages. We recognize, however, that budgets for future seasons will be drastically reduced and new contracts are highly unlikely to be offered on terms similar to those given in previous years.

In the short-term, we also think that, once football is safe to restart, the transfer window should remain open for a continuous period, enabling clubs in financial stress to realise the value of player contracts where they are no longer in a position to pay contracted wages.

We think this crisis provides an opportunity to reset English football and the financial structures that support it. So, we also believe we should:

  • Restructure Academy compensation schemes, allowing clubs with successful academies to preserve the value of their players, and receive proper compensation for players who switch to other clubs in pursuit of professional contracts. Such restructuring would not only provide fair compensation, but help with the redistribution of wealth from upper echelons of the football pyramid.
  • Unify all the lower leagues in the football pyramid, enabling more extensive promotion and relegation between them. The result would be more fluidity throughout the pyramid, enabling clubs to find a level appropriate to their resources, without needing to face administration and without the apparent stigma of leaving the EFL.

We do not support restructuring the league into geographically-based divisions.

We have let the EFL know our position on these issues, but recognise that we will not always have our own way! There is a wide range of opinion within the League, reflecting the wide range of individual club circumstances.

The elected Board and the executives are working hard to find solutions that are best for the League as a whole. The Argyle board accepts that the wider interest – the survival of an effective football pyramid — is the goal we should all be trying to reach.

We own our stadium, are almost entirely debt free and I am prepared, in the short-term, to provide the financial support to see us through this difficult time.

Make no mistake though, this crisis has presented an existential threat to all football clubs. We are stronger than most, but not invincible.

Thank you for your support.

Simon

Great point concerning playing with no crowd I thought, & echoes my feelings. 

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4 hours ago, The Humble Realist said:

You can't charge people 20 pound per match though when they aren't actually attending.

Plus for bigger teams like Leeds , why would their fans be happy at being charged 20 pound per match AND their sky subscription when the game is on sky. 

Multiply this times 10 for Liverpool , man u etc...

I think they'll have to offer refunds and then ask fans who want to watch to pay on a game by game basis. 

Also...working in IT I cant see them building a system that recognises season ticket holders from everyone else in the current climate...they can barely operate a decent ticketing service online in normal times !!

 

No I agree, just looking at the basic concept of what could happen, most clubs have their own live feed plus some form of emergency TV / Sky contract for a season, with multi access, I think it could be a nice earner for TV, offering lots of options for fans, while clubs could claw back some revenue ....forget this season it's too messy and too soon and not important with all that's going on... leave the table as it is, promote top two etc but no relegation and concentrate on a proper no fans plan for next season whenever that is..

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12 hours ago, Vincent Vega said:

Great point concerning playing with no crowd I thought, & echoes my feelings. 

I think the outlook for lower league and top two divisions will be different. Only the Prem and Champ can sustain a resumption in my opinion. 

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To all connected with Bristol city  football Club.from the top to the fans hope everyone is staying safe. We might not all agree with each other on this forum but its all about opinions. we all have one thing in common the love of Bristol City Football club. To the day we can all meet again and behond stay safe and take care. coyr

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12 minutes ago, phantom said:

Dutch football has announced it's finished its season with no promotions or relegations

Interesting to see how this plays out now. Will this advance the decision by other leagues. 

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

Dutch football has announced it's finished its season with no promotions or relegations

Hands were tied by their government, interesting call on their choice of finishing though seems they've picked and chosen their preferred things, no champions but the top 2 will go into the champions league so they have kept the season to account to some degree. So over here, Liverpool not champs, but champions league with Man City (provisionally), Leicester and Chelsea. Imagine telling Leeds fans they'd finish top of the table but not go up :laugh:

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2 minutes ago, hodge said:

Imagine telling Leeds fans they'd finish top of the table but not go up :laugh:

Liverpool not being champions and Leeds and Swindon missing out on promotion?

:D 

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2 hours ago, hodge said:

Hands were tied by their government, interesting call on their choice of finishing though seems they've picked and chosen their preferred things, no champions but the top 2 will go into the champions league so they have kept the season to account to some degree. So over here, Liverpool not champs, but champions league with Man City (provisionally), Leicester and Chelsea. Imagine telling Leeds fans they'd finish top of the table but not go up :laugh:

It shows it is possible though, it’s way too money driven here. 

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3 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

It shows it is possible though, it’s way too money driven here. 

The Dutch league only called it because their government banned any professional sport until September, we haven't 

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