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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


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Has anybody any theories as to why Germany has 4 times as many confirmed cases as us yet one third of the deaths? there seems to be no logic to it the percentage of cases to deaths seems to vary wildly in some countries. Switzerland for instance also has a similar number of cases to us despite having a fraction of our population, yet there death rate is 25% of ours pro rata.

Edited by pillred
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3 hours ago, Kodjias Wrist said:

Look I'm not really one of these conspiracy types of people. But I'm not sure I believe the chinese media and there numbers. I am concerned about the numbers in Spain and Italy will be repeated here. Hazard a guess to the numbers in 3/4 weeks? Deaths daily in the thousands? 

So you’re saying a communist totalitarian government where people who question the regime/leadership mysteriously ‘disappear’ and people get ‘social points’ for agreeing with the government might be fiddling the numbers???????? No way!!!

whatever China are saying times it by 10 and you probably have the correct amount of cases/deaths 

Edited by Eastside Moonwalker
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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Germany seems a bit of a mystery.

Scientists and virologists are struggling to understand it I believe so what hope do we have. ?

Any lessons that scientists, virologists can learn from there would be invaluable however.

Perhaps more testing?

The case with Germany is a strange one. They’re testing a lot more than us but as far as deaths go, they’re not testing the dead the same way we’re testing the dead. 
 

they have a lot better medical service and a lot more ventilators and beds but the healthcare isn’t too dissimilar to France’s, so that’s realistically where the deaths are. 
 

my friends brother works at the Robert Koch Institut and said that essentially the difference between covid19 causing the death or the pre existing illness essentially causing the death is what is keeping the number so low, however that is a lot more in it that. Will ask tomorrow and add it here 

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Interesting article as to where Italy went wrong.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-18/what-went-wrong-with-how-italy-handled-coronavirus/12062242

I also know they reopened bars in Milan and maybe beyond, on February 27th or around that time, before closing them again verbatim, along with the country. The lockdown in the North, news of this leaking out surely played a big role in exacerbating matters?

Surprised to read of India handling it quite well given that it is a nation with significant challenges let's say.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/india-is-containing-coronavirus-despite-dense-population/12059024

Read about a sudden shift in Argentina too- I wonder if suddenly going from very few restrictions to a load will flatten the curve quite a bit? It's not third world but it's not first world either.

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-argentina-felt-like-a-virus-free-bubble-before-panic-set-in-11959336

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https://www.rebellionresearch.com/blog/northern-italy-wuhan-partners-for-better-or-worse
 

Quite an interesting article here about the Italian situation. It might already have been covered, but I never realised the extent to which northern Italy’s textile and garment industry was reliant on Chinese labour and that it had such close links with Wuhan. 

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2 hours ago, North London Red said:

https://www.rebellionresearch.com/blog/northern-italy-wuhan-partners-for-better-or-worse
 

Quite an interesting article here about the Italian situation. It might already have been covered, but I never realised the extent to which northern Italy’s textile and garment industry was reliant on Chinese labour and that it had such close links with Wuhan. 

Thank you, suddenly that makes more sense now why Italy has been so affected. 

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9 hours ago, bpexile said:

Agreed, Nans are very special, I've been married to one for 48yrs & I can't imagine what our 2 children, 5 grandchildren & myself would do without her. Our deepest condolences & thoughts go to Marcus & his family & he's correct in saying that football is of no importance when it comes to matters like this.

bp, same here, 48 years, 2 kids and 5 grandkids, They are VERY special

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15 hours ago, Odysseus said:

London faces severe issues from the amount of people who work low skilled jobs who can’t afford to live in zone 2 or drive. Maybe they should be shut for certain workers. 

We have all heard lots of hypothetical moral dilemmas in our lives, but London at the moment is an extraordinary real life moral dilemma. You are 100% correct about low skilled low wage workers, though many people don't seem to think they exist, they are the invisible workforce, and shutting London down would be devastating for them. 

Until the government combines formal shutdown with some underwriting of these wages (not the inprecise, passive instructions) people will keep going about their business even if it's wrong. It's easy for people who can work from home, or go without wages, to sneer, but there are a lot of people who desperately need to keep their work.

Our office cleaner last night was in tears, we're her last office open, most of our lot have gone home and she says if we also close today she's got no work and no pay (zero hours cleaning contractor) and two young kids to support. There are people like this all over the city, unless the employer is underwriting wages and shutting down.

And yet all across social and even from our PM last night I hear we should all be in this together and people still going about their business are selfish, we must pull together and follow instructions. It's amazing double standards, we don't pull together to help them afford to be out of work. Their survival instinct goes beyond just COVID-19.

It's a moral dilemma I'm struggling with. I wish the government would remove the uncertainty.

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30 minutes ago, Olé said:

We have all heard lots of hypothetical moral dilemmas in our lives, but London at the moment is an extraordinary real life moral dilemma. You are 100% correct about low skilled low wage workers, though many people don't seem to think they exist, they are the invisible workforce, and shutting London down would be devastating for them. 

Until the government combines formal shutdown with some underwriting of these wages (not the inprecise, passive instructions) people will keep going about their business even if it's wrong. It's easy for people who can work from home, or go without wages, to sneer, but there are a lot of people who desperately need to keep their work.

Our office cleaner last night was in tears, we're her last office open, most of our lot have gone home and she says if we also close today she's got no work and no pay (zero hours cleaning contractor) and two young kids to support. There are people like this all over the city, unless the employer is underwriting wages and shutting down.

And yet all across social and even from our PM last night I hear we should all be in this together and people still going about their business are selfish, we must pull together and follow instructions. It's amazing double standards, we don't pull together to help them afford to be out of work. Their survival instinct goes beyond just COVID-19.

It's a moral dilemma I'm struggling with. I wish the government would remove the uncertainty.

If I was struggling to make ends meet and in that cleaners position then I would be going out and working wherever I could. If you can’t afford to stay at home then you can’t afford to stay at home. it’s as simple as that. 

I think most people would be on the side of the worker here.

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Just seen a couple of the videos of NHS workers in tears over their inability to buy basic foodstuffs when they come off their shifts.

Lummydaze. Surely it’s not beyond the ability of someone in Government / the Supermarket Industry to organise home shopping deliveries for these key workers? Ought to give the shopping for free as well in my opinion.

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12 minutes ago, RedRock said:

 

Just seen a couple of the videos of NHS workers in tears over their inability to buy basic foodstuffs when they come off their shifts.

Lummydaze. Surely it’s not beyond the ability of someone in Government / the Supermarket Industry to organise home shopping deliveries for these key workers? Ought to give the shopping for free as well in my opinion.

These should be played on every ad break in the hope that it shames the selfish ***** who are ruining it for everyone else.

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8 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Germany seems a bit of a mystery.

Scientists and virologists are struggling to understand it I believe so what hope do we have. ?

Any lessons that scientists, virologists can learn from there would be invaluable however.

Perhaps more testing?

I'd be very wary of any figures from anywhere at the moment.

No doubt it will all come out when this thing is over and accurate figures are available.

But maybe Germany got social exclusion in earlier and people maybe adhered to it more effectively then here ?

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2 minutes ago, bcfc01 said:

I'd be very wary of any figures from anywhere at the moment.

No doubt it will all come out when this thing is over and accurate figures are available.

But maybe Germany got social exclusion in earlier and people maybe adhered to it more effectively then here ?

Germany still isn't really socially isolated. But you're right to an extent. 

The state where I live was on full lockdown for gyms, bars, pubs, swimming pools etc 11 days ago. This is in the most populous state (no idea about others but I assume other states other than Saxony followed the same suit). This also meant that from about 3 days ago no meetings of more than 50 people can take place either (lots of festivals and concerts cancelled).

They essentially only let citizens enter through the back of buses instead of the front, not letting people pay for fares out of fear of safety and only really drilled home the social exclusion hard when Merkel came on TV the other day.

What I think is important is that as a people, the Germans typically are more isolated and can adhere to the self isolation rules easier, they seem to be good at follow rules (Ordnung muss sein and all that good stuff). 

The borders are still open for EU citizens, people are still going outside and getting the trains. Although I definitely think they have followed it better than us.

 

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9 hours ago, pillred said:

Has anybody any theories as to why Germany has 4 times as many confirmed cases as us yet one third of the deaths? there seems to be no logic to it the percentage of cases to deaths seems to vary wildly in some countries. Switzerland for instance also has a similar number of cases to us despite having a fraction of our population, yet there death rate is 25% of ours pro rata.

I don’t know what they’re doing in Germany, however it’s possible they’ve simply tested far more people than us (not difficult) and found more mild cases...cases that wouldn’t be included in our overall figures because we aren’t testing people until they end up in hospital.

That would suggest, if true, that our actual cases are many times more than our confirmed cases. 
 

I don’t think Germany’s healthcare service is squeezed as much as the NHS as well.

Edited by Peter O Hanraha-hanrahan
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There's not many things that genuinely shock me 

Sky just ran a report about a hospital in the Lombardo region in Italy. This is one of the regions that has been on complete lockdown for the past 4 weeks. 

Doctors interviewed were clearly frustrated people keep describing their virus as being just like flu. They were clear it is more like severe pneumonia. 

All people diagnosed with Covid-19 are put in these ventilation hoods to get the air to mimic the same pressure in the affected lungs

 

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1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

If I was struggling to make ends meet and in that cleaners position then I would be going out and working wherever I could. If you can’t afford to stay at home then you can’t afford to stay at home. it’s as simple as that. 

I think most people would be on the side of the worker here.

But the dilemna is that if a relative of yours passed away as a result of these workers spreading the virus you might have a different  view. Tricky innit.

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24 minutes ago, mozo said:

But the dilemna is that if a relative of yours passed away as a result of these workers spreading the virus you might have a different  view. Tricky innit.

Then the blame would be on the government not the worker for not ensuring people are being cared for quickly enough.  

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9 hours ago, pillred said:

Has anybody any theories as to why Germany has 4 times as many confirmed cases as us yet one third of the deaths? there seems to be no logic to it the percentage of cases to deaths seems to vary wildly in some countries. Switzerland for instance also has a similar number of cases to us despite having a fraction of our population, yet there death rate is 25% of ours pro rata.

Another 3,000 cases overnight in Germany.

Not sure about their mortality figures.

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8 hours ago, North London Red said:

https://www.rebellionresearch.com/blog/northern-italy-wuhan-partners-for-better-or-worse
 

Quite an interesting article here about the Italian situation. It might already have been covered, but I never realised the extent to which northern Italy’s textile and garment industry was reliant on Chinese labour and that it had such close links with Wuhan. 

I blame that Marco Polo bloke. 

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

But the dilemna is that if a relative of yours passed away as a result of these workers spreading the virus you might have a different  view. Tricky innit.

I don’t think it’s that tricky. If you had no money you couldn’t stay at home as would be unable to feed yourself or your children.  I wouldn’t blame someone for passing on the virus in these circumstances. Employers and/or government would be to blame 

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