The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)

[Vincent Vega]

1 hour ago, Bobby Bollax said:

And healthcare workers 

And Children 

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, Eddie Hitler said:

The death rate amongst NHS workers aged 18 - 65 is no different to the whole population aged 18 - 65.

The higher death rate is in the retired NHS workers who returned to work to help and they should never have been asked to do this because they were always going to be far more vulnerable.

I think that's a scandal along with the NHS infecting care homes by sending out recovered patients to them before confirming that they were clear of the virus.

100%. 

They built these new hospitals but have barely used them.    massive publicity stunt and waste of money.  Should have moved those they thought were recovering to these before being moved back to their homes only when they were confirmed as recovered.  

If you look here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ and compare countries, we don't have any stats for recoveries.  So, we don't know how many active cases there are. We are therefore trying to come up with cheaper alternatives to measuring this outbreak which are less reliable than testing and tracing. 

German football went back because they knew their cases have reduced and where they were and because their game is well run.  We don't know where our cases are within the community and our game is 'run' by a load of competing, selfish individuals and organsiations who couldn't lead the game out of a paper bag.

[Northern Red]

Interesting comments by Wayne Rooney in his Sunday Times column:

Quote

PLAYERS’ OPINIONS SEEM TO COUNT FOR LITTLE IN RESTART PLAN

The current plan is for Championship clubs to return to training on May 25 but until there is more clarity on testing, social distancing and other things, it is just a proposed date and one that has changed several times already. I’m desperate to train and play again but it feels like football in England is being pushed to return too soon.

Our government says people can return to work but only with social distancing in the workplace and that does not work in football. So I don’t get it: until the government gives the green light to have physical contact, we can’t train or prepare properly.

I understand where Troy Deeney, Danny Rose and Raheem Sterling are coming from. They all expressed worries about the Premier League clubs training this week. The concern is not so much for ourselves, like whether you might pick up an injury, but more about bringing coronavirus home and infecting those around us. People’s lives are at risk.

I’ll be watching the Bundesliga’s return with interest, but it’s important to remember Germany are ahead of us in terms of testing and their loss of life has not been as severe. They’re at a place where their government feels it can allow full-contact sport again, but that is not the position of our government.

For me, the whole thing is back to front. The most important factor for players, managers, coaches, club medical departments is what date is set for games to restart. Once that’s in place we can plot the time and type of training required to get there. The first thing Germany did was set a target date but we have yet to come up with one.

Something that has surprised me is how little our opinions seem to count. The Premier League engaged with players via the managers and captains. But as club captain at Derby, I have not received so much as a phone call from the EFL or PFA to ask how Derby’s players feel about returning.

 

[Davefevs]

3 hours ago, The Bard said:

100%. 

They built these new hospitals but have barely used them.    massive publicity stunt and waste of money.  Should have moved those they thought were recovering to these before being moved back to their homes only when they were confirmed as recovered.  

If you look here https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ and compare countries, we don't have any stats for recoveries.  So, we don't know how many active cases there are. We are therefore trying to come up with cheaper alternatives to measuring this outbreak which are less reliable than testing and tracing. 

German football went back because they knew their cases have reduced and where they were and because their game is well run.  We don't know where our cases are within the community and our game is 'run' by a load of competing, selfish individuals and organsiations who couldn't lead the game out of a paper bag.

We do have stats for recoveries....but hospital recoveries only.  Whitty and Vallance suggested in the past week that they ought to be published....but we haven’t seen any.

[daored]

Interesting discussion on the radio today that footballers will need to stay in hotels during the period of the restart as they can’t be trusted , especially with the news stories about Pogba over the past couple of days

[Mr Popodopolous]

**** off Rooney- many are working much less lower paid, greater risk.

Your moaning is neither helpful nor desirable- if you don't wish to play, fine but you forego pay. Not as bad as his article the other month but still..

Interestingly, I watched some Bundesliga yesterday- some parts of games anyway, dipping in and out and I didn't see a single tackle- dunno if that's due to this, I'm sure there were tackles but it'd be interesting to see data of tackles in games pre lockdown and post.

To qualify my comment, stuff he writes about football, insight- that's all an excellent read, and certainly this week (not read much of his other columns) but his moaning about restart or expectation for players to take a bit of a hit- mind you Derby got there in the end- does grate.

Edited May 17, 2020 by Mr Popodopolous

[bengalcub]

Bless wayne rooney , if he seriously thinks that the frontline workers have been allowed to do their jobs with 2mtr distancing in place hes even thicker than i first thought.

[Betty Swallocks]

57 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

**** off Rooney- many are working much less lower paid, greater risk.

Your moaning is neither helpful nor desirable- if you don't wish to play, fine but you forego pay. Not as bad as his article the other month but still..

Interestingly, I watched some Bundesliga yesterday- some parts of games anyway, dipping in and out and I didn't see a single tackle- dunno if that's due to this, I'm sure there were tackles but it'd be interesting to see data of tackles in games pre lockdown and post.

To qualify my comment, stuff he writes about football, insight- that's all an excellent read, but his moaning about restart or expectation for players to take a bit of a hit- mind you Derby got there in the end- does grate.

Watched Köln v Mainz earlier, was a couple of tasty looking challenges going in from the bits I saw. 

[formerly known as ivan]

1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

**** off Rooney- many are working much less lower paid, greater risk.

Your moaning is neither helpful nor desirable- if you don't wish to play, fine but you forego pay. Not as bad as his article the other month but still..

Interestingly, I watched some Bundesliga yesterday- some parts of games anyway, dipping in and out and I didn't see a single tackle- dunno if that's due to this, I'm sure there were tackles but it'd be interesting to see data of tackles in games pre lockdown and post.

To qualify my comment, stuff he writes about football, insight- that's all an excellent read, and certainly this week (not read much of his other columns) but his moaning about restart or expectation for players to take a bit of a hit- mind you Derby got there in the end- does grate.

Where did Rooney make his comments?

[Mr Popodopolous]

34 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Where did Rooney make his comments?

In his Times column.

Actually, his comments from that about this were posted by @Northern Red higher up the page, few posts back.

[Lanterne Rouge]

35 minutes ago, formerly known as ivan said:

Where did Rooney make his comments?

The Sunday Times. @Northern Red post #6458 above has a transcript

[mozo]

What surprises me about Rooney's comments is that Derby are 6 points behind Preston with 9 games to go. I'd expect him to balance the concerns about safety with his desperation as Derby skipper to eventually (when the time is right) resume. But reading that extract it sounds like he's not convinced about resumption, contrary I presume to what his board would be hoping for.

[Lrrr]

UEFA has a plan to finish the European football season in august, I assume there will be the same calls of unfairness with contracts etc then if players don’t agree temporary deals 

[formerly known as ivan]

I do get where Rooney is coming from. 

Yes there is the argument that frontline workers, especially those in the NHS, do not have the environment or possibility to work within the social distancing guidelines and out themselves at risk every day. However, this is because their role is serving a purpose and without them we would be a hell of a lot worse off than what we are. You cannot put into words what these people have done over the last couple of months.

Then there is football. What real purpose do they serve in going back to ‘work’? They are not key workers, their jobs are not invaluable to the health and safety of the nation. There is no difference between allowing them to go back to work and reopening every office in the country and scrapping social distancing. 

I’ve said before on this thread, take the money it will cost to play out the rest of the season and out it towards the NHS or another worthwhile cause.

If the Bundesliga games this weekend is anything to go by and games are going to be played at pre season pace then there really is no point.  

[Super]

3 hours ago, daored said:

Interesting discussion on the radio today that footballers will need to stay in hotels during the period of the restart as they can’t be trusted , especially with the news stories about Pogba over the past couple of days

What stories?

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

**** off Rooney- many are working much less lower paid, greater risk.

Your moaning is neither helpful nor desirable- if you don't wish to play, fine but you forego pay. Not as bad as his article the other month but still..

Interestingly, I watched some Bundesliga yesterday- some parts of games anyway, dipping in and out and I didn't see a single tackle- dunno if that's due to this, I'm sure there were tackles but it'd be interesting to see data of tackles in games pre lockdown and post.

To qualify my comment, stuff he writes about football, insight- that's all an excellent read, and certainly this week (not read much of his other columns) but his moaning about restart or expectation for players to take a bit of a hit- mind you Derby got there in the end- does grate.

The Eintracht Frankfurt v Borussia Mönchengladbach match had some strong tackles, and a few late studs over the top.  I think we saw less fuss being made, less haranguing of the referee....thus making it seem a bit played down.

[Bristol Rob]

3 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

**** off Rooney- many are working much less lower paid, greater risk.

Your moaning is neither helpful nor desirable- if you don't wish to play, fine but you forego pay. Not as bad as his article the other month but still..

Interestingly, I watched some Bundesliga yesterday- some parts of games anyway, dipping in and out and I didn't see a single tackle- dunno if that's due to this, I'm sure there were tackles but it'd be interesting to see data of tackles in games pre lockdown and post.

To qualify my comment, stuff he writes about football, insight- that's all an excellent read, and certainly this week (not read much of his other columns) but his moaning about restart or expectation for players to take a bit of a hit- mind you Derby got there in the end- does grate.

You seem to be moaning for the sake of it.

Many are working at greater risk, but should footballers be expected to work at risk without consultation, potentially adding to the burden of those who have no choice*?

*I say 'no choice' obviously these people have chosen to work with the sick and ill, they haven't been conscripted, so they are likely aware that they risk coming in to contact with germ ridden people.

Equally, why shouldn't Rooney have an opinion on 'his' industry?

[daored]

1 hour ago, Super said:

What stories?

Flew to Paris and had an evening similar to walker from Man City

[Super]

14 minutes ago, daored said:

Flew to Paris and had an evening similar to walker from Man City

Oh he was the mystery player!

[Mr Popodopolous]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The Eintracht Frankfurt v Borussia Mönchengladbach match had some strong tackles, and a few late studs over the top.  I think we saw less fuss being made, less haranguing of the referee....thus making it seem a bit played down.

Thanks.

I did wonder when I saw bits of some of the Saturday games if there was a no tackling rule or similar implemented or similar but clearly not!

[Mr Popodopolous]

2 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

You seem to be moaning for the sake of it.

Many are working at greater risk, but should footballers be expected to work at risk without consultation, potentially adding to the burden of those who have no choice*?

*I say 'no choice' obviously these people have chosen to work with the sick and ill, they haven't been conscripted, so they are likely aware that they risk coming in to contact with germ ridden people.

Equally, why shouldn't Rooney have an opinion on 'his' industry?

Wouldn't say so- conversely, you appear to be defending players at all costs.

How many employees get properly consulted about work in these times? Would be a movable feast and varied picture IMO. The risk factor is probably less than a variety of roles, industries. Additionally, they will be amongst the best protected in the country- testing and regular testing- if it's safe for kids to go back to school, it's certainly safe for football to return.

That's a debatable point. Do you think hospital workers can just decide they aren't coming in? Or shop workers- I doubt it! If they did, what would their pay packet look like...? To me, it should be no play no pay for footballers who refuse.

Well, of course- out of touch view quite possibly but clearly a right to it.

[Bristol Rob]

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wouldn't say so- conversely, you appear to be defending players at all costs.

How many employees get properly consulted about work in these times? Would be a movable feast and varied picture IMO. The risk factor is probably less than a variety of roles, industries. Additionally, they will be amongst the best protected in the country- testing and regular testing- if it's safe for kids to go back to school, it's certainly safe for football to return.

That's a debatable point. Do you think hospital workers can just decide they aren't coming in? Or shop workers- I doubt it! If they did, what would their pay packet look like...? To me, it should be no play no pay for footballers who refuse.

Well, of course- out of touch view quite possibly but clearly a right to it.

Maybe I have been spoilt for a few years, as my employer judges me on my output, not how I achieved the goals we've agreed together.

Footballers aren't 'normal' people as far as a workplace setting goes, they haven't been hired in the usual way 'wanted, midfielder with leadership qualities' apply within. They have been purchased. And they sit on a balance sheet. And, if you don't pay them, and they walk away, you might have to write off £000000s in value/profit.

Add to that a genuine welfare concern, I don't think them wanting a conversation with their leaders is unreasonable.

I get consulted about my future working arrangements, and if I am not comfortable with the proposals made, I won't be following them until I decide I'll be safe. 

NHS workers know that even in times of 'non pandemic' they will be exposed to more germs, more examples of illness, and risk. 

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Should NHS workers be paid more and given the appropriate workwear to minimise their chances of becoming ill, whilst doing their jobs? ABSOLUTELY.

Is it the fault of football that they aren't? Absolutely not.

[mozo]

11 hours ago, formerly known as ivan said:

I do get where Rooney is coming from. 

Yes there is the argument that frontline workers, especially those in the NHS, do not have the environment or possibility to work within the social distancing guidelines and out themselves at risk every day. However, this is because their role is serving a purpose and without them we would be a hell of a lot worse off than what we are. You cannot put into words what these people have done over the last couple of months.

Then there is football. What real purpose do they serve in going back to ‘work’? They are not key workers, their jobs are not invaluable to the health and safety of the nation. There is no difference between allowing them to go back to work and reopening every office in the country and scrapping social distancing. 

I’ve said before on this thread, take the money it will cost to play out the rest of the season and out it towards the NHS or another worthwhile cause.

If the Bundesliga games this weekend is anything to go by and games are going to be played at pre season pace then there really is no point.  

Comparing footballers to key workers is the wrong comparison to make. We're not talking about footballers competing now, we're likely talking about a month or two down the line at which point, football will be one of many non-essential industries to have resumed. Footballers will be the most protected of all of them.

10 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

You seem to be moaning for the sake of it.

Many are working at greater risk, but should footballers be expected to work at risk without consultation, potentially adding to the burden of those who have no choice*?

*I say 'no choice' obviously these people have chosen to work with the sick and ill, they haven't been conscripted, so they are likely aware that they risk coming in to contact with germ ridden people.

Equally, why shouldn't Rooney have an opinion on 'his' industry?

Just on this consultation bit, surely the clubs are consulting their players, and then club representatives are going to the FA/EFL. So mention it to your manager if you have a problem. 

Edited May 18, 2020 by mozo

[Selred]

11 hours ago, daored said:

Flew to Paris and had an evening similar to walker from Man City

Where is this reported? 

[bengalcub]

9 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

Maybe I have been spoilt for a few years, as my employer judges me on my output, not how I achieved the goals we've agreed together.

Footballers aren't 'normal' people as far as a workplace setting goes, they haven't been hired in the usual way 'wanted, midfielder with leadership qualities' apply within. They have been purchased. And they sit on a balance sheet. And, if you don't pay them, and they walk away, you might have to write off £000000s in value/profit.

Add to that a genuine welfare concern, I don't think them wanting a conversation with their leaders is unreasonable.

I get consulted about my future working arrangements, and if I am not comfortable with the proposals made, I won't be following them until I decide I'll be safe. 

NHS workers know that even in times of 'non pandemic' they will be exposed to more germs, more examples of illness, and risk. 

It's like comparing apples to oranges.

Should NHS workers be paid more and given the appropriate workwear to minimise their chances of becoming ill, whilst doing their jobs? ABSOLUTELY.

Is it the fault of football that they aren't? Absolutely not.

Your very lucky to work for prob a very compassionate employer however back in the real world choosing to not follow your employers proposals results in diciplinary action , so not an option for the large majority , i dont believe that nhs workers want more pay they just want to feel safe with the correct ppe.

 

[daored]

41 minutes ago, Selred said:

Where is this reported? 

It’s not been reported it was him , been told by a Man Utd season ticket holder - the player hasn’t been named by the press

Edited May 18, 2020 by daored

[Silvio Dante]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52702075
 

News from the return of Korean football.

FC Seoul have achieved the impossible.

They’ve filled their ground with more c***s than you’d find at the Memorial Ground...

[Bristol Rob]

37 minutes ago, bengalcub said:

Your very lucky to work for prob a very compassionate employer however back in the real world choosing to not follow your employers proposals results in diciplinary action , so not an option for the large majority , i dont believe that nhs workers want more pay they just want to feel safe with the correct ppe.

 

Your job/role should be a two-way relationship, if you have an autocratic boss, then you will never be that happy in your employment.

I have a fair idea what the expectations of the company I work for are, and it's a discussion about how I/we achieve them that leads to a successful outcome, if i get asked to do something I'm not comfortable with and there is another method of achieving the same result that allows me to remove an element of doubt, i expect them to be open to it. And they are. 

If I was refuse to do something reasonable, then they would likely have a different attitude. 

It's pretty straightforward in the real world. You work in a collaborative way that everyone gets what they want.

As for NHS workers, trust me, as well as the appropriate equipment they would like more money! As clearly voice by a mate who recently qualified with over 100k of debt. However, as he acknowledges, he knew what he was signing up for before his studies started.

[bengalcub]

Like i said in the real world the large majority are pawns in big corporations and have to toe the line or face the consequences  your an extremely lucky person to work for what sounds like a fantastic employer , i disagree with your nhs statement as with my experience of nhs staff they want the correct ppe to protect their patients ,themselves and their colleagues ive not heard one say "we want to be paid more" . 

[Davefevs]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-52702075
 

News from the return of Korean football.

FC Seoul have achieved the impossible.

They’ve filled their ground with more c***s than you’d find at the Memorial Ground...

That story was “blown up” out of all proportion