Kid in the Riot Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 19 minutes ago, TheReds said: Indeed, but I think is totally wrong. If I was young and healthy I certainly wouldn't be having/had the jab (especially if I had already tested positive previously). Next stop will be everyone has to have boosters to watch a gig, football, nightclub etc etc, then it will be for the flu, could be entry into shops, supermarkets etc. I wonder how much these Pharma companies and board members will be making out of all of this. Hey, it's a shit sandwich, but I'm afraid we've got to swallow our pride and eat it. We're in an unprecedented situation where for the time being you can't expect to turn down the opportunity of a perfectly safe vaccine and continue your life as normal, putting yourself and others at higher risk. If everyone had that mindset we'd be in perennial lockdowns, with many more freedoms restricted/lost. Regarding pharma, I'll be the first to criticise them, however they've done some decent stuff regarding coronavirus including giving up their IP rights so poorer countries can produce the vaccine. They've also come into their own in terms of the ability to mass produce a vaccine. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyTonyTony Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: They've also come into their own in terms of the ability to mass produce a vaccine. Government funding allover the world sorted that particular problem out I.e tax money not private pharma company profit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 Not like they're asking you at the turnstile whether you have the clap, is it. Though apparently at Rovers they will be asking for proof that you have already had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReds Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 45 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Hey, it's a shit sandwich, but I'm afraid we've got to swallow our pride and eat it. We're in an unprecedented situation where for the time being you can't expect to turn down the opportunity of a perfectly safe vaccine and continue your life as normal, putting yourself and others at higher risk. If everyone had that mindset we'd be in perennial lockdowns, with many more freedoms restricted/lost. Regarding pharma, I'll be the first to criticise them, however they've done some decent stuff regarding coronavirus including giving up their IP rights so poorer countries can produce the vaccine. They've also come into their own in terms of the ability to mass produce a vaccine. I have "ate it", I, personally do not have an issue with having the vaccine myself. I still don't think it should be mandatory by coercion for anyone, especially the young and healthy, and we are now onto vulnerable 12 year olds (no doubt soon to be all 12 year olds). Regardless of how safe we all think it is, we still do not really know if there are any long term effects - and I fully expect there to be hardly any long term effects. I have no issue with anyone having it or also choosing not to have it, as that should be their choice once they weigh up their own risks. If I was young and healthy I certainly wouldn't be having it, and if every adult has been offered it, then at what time does the "choice" not to have it let these people go back to normal life? Are we all going to be forced to have the flu vaccine in a few months time to watch a football match as well? Utter madness and discriminatory imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Negan Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 So I’ve had 1 vaccine and my mate hasn’t had his jab yet, he doesn’t want it. Both season card holders. Can neither of us go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReds Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Negan said: So I’ve had 1 vaccine and my mate hasn’t had his jab yet, he doesn’t want it. Both season card holders. Can neither of us go? Unsure about one jab, but no jabs you need to show a negative test as far as I am aware. This is up until end of September though, to give anyone the chance to get both jabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 3 minutes ago, Negan said: So I’ve had 1 vaccine and my mate hasn’t had his jab yet, he doesn’t want it. Both season card holders. Can neither of us go? Ashton Gate haven't said what their covid check is likely to be yet. Would guess it'll be one of the following, or a combination of all three (as in, no checks for kids). 1. No check whatsoever. 2. Proof of a negative test. 3. Passport 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Army 87 Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Negan said: So I’ve had 1 vaccine and my mate hasn’t had his jab yet, he doesn’t want it. Both season card holders. Can neither of us go? Lots of assumptions here, but assuming Boris’ comment earlier includes sporting crowds (it probably will) and assuming you’ve had your second jab and your mate sticks with not having one - you’re in, they’re out (end September onwards) Edited July 19, 2021 by Red Army 87 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
And Its Smith Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 Seems like a negative test won’t be enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnzFM Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 Hear the south stand concourse isn’t going to be used due to vaccinations still on going, does that mean the seating in that stand unlikely to be used as well - assume so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 1 hour ago, TheReds said: I have "ate it", I, personally do not have an issue with having the vaccine myself. I still don't think it should be mandatory by coercion for anyone, especially the young and healthy, and we are now onto vulnerable 12 year olds (no doubt soon to be all 12 year olds). Regardless of how safe we all think it is, we still do not really know if there are any long term effects - and I fully expect there to be hardly any long term effects. I have no issue with anyone having it or also choosing not to have it, as that should be their choice once they weigh up their own risks. If I was young and healthy I certainly wouldn't be having it, and if every adult has been offered it, then at what time does the "choice" not to have it let these people go back to normal life? Are we all going to be forced to have the flu vaccine in a few months time to watch a football match as well? Utter madness and discriminatory imo. That's fine, and it's your opinion. You've had the vaccine yourself, so are clearly unbothered by it. As I said, we are in unprecedented times, so I'm afraid the defence of "oh it's not fair, it's my choice" doesn't really stack up at the moment. You want your life back as close to normal; then get the jab. If you don't want to take the jab then accept that whilst we are still understanding this deadly virus, you may have to take a back seat for now. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CloudyThatchers Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 16 minutes ago, And Its Smith said: Seems like a negative test won’t be enough I have heard that people who needed a negative test to get into some of the test events didn't actually do a test, they just scanned an unused lfd and recorded it as negative to get a text confirmation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betty Swallocks Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 8 minutes ago, BarnzFM said: Hear the south stand concourse isn’t going to be used due to vaccinations still on going, does that mean the seating in that stand unlikely to be used as well - assume so Vaccination centre @ Ashton Gate is ending on the 3rd August in time for them to clear out ready for the Blackpool game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 10 minutes ago, stoke giiford red said: I have heard that people who needed a negative test to get into some of the test events didn't actually do a test, they just scanned an unused lfd and recorded it as negative to get a text confirmation. This is one of the many problems with the app and the LFT you can do at home. It relies entirely on the honesty of those taking the test. Which is why (I'm guessing) they are doing this digital passport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid in the Riot Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 21 minutes ago, stoke giiford red said: I have heard that people who needed a negative test to get into some of the test events didn't actually do a test, they just scanned an unused lfd and recorded it as negative to get a text confirmation. Yep, all you need to do is scan the QR code and record your result as negative. This is part of the "world beating" track and trace system, don't forget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted July 19, 2021 Report Share Posted July 19, 2021 49 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Yep, all you need to do is scan the QR code and record your result as negative. This is part of the "world beating" track and trace system, don't forget. And some people thought Engval was a waste of money! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyderInACan Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 8 hours ago, Bristol Rob said: And some people thought Engval was a waste of money! I wonder how many Tilsons = the cost of Track & Trace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 11 hours ago, TheReds said: I have "ate it", I, personally do not have an issue with having the vaccine myself. I still don't think it should be mandatory by coercion for anyone, especially the young and healthy, and we are now onto vulnerable 12 year olds (no doubt soon to be all 12 year olds). Regardless of how safe we all think it is, we still do not really know if there are any long term effects - and I fully expect there to be hardly any long term effects. I have no issue with anyone having it or also choosing not to have it, as that should be their choice once they weigh up their own risks. If I was young and healthy I certainly wouldn't be having it, and if every adult has been offered it, then at what time does the "choice" not to have it let these people go back to normal life? Are we all going to be forced to have the flu vaccine in a few months time to watch a football match as well? Utter madness and discriminatory imo. Sorry but even "young and healthy" can get seriously ill from Covid and suffer long term effects, the risk of that is still higher than the risk of any vaccine side affects. That's not to downplay anyones concerns about the vaccine but it really is a numbers game and weighing up risk. 10 hours ago, stoke giiford red said: I have heard that people who needed a negative test to get into some of the test events didn't actually do a test, they just scanned an unused lfd and recorded it as negative to get a text confirmation. Yep this is true. And honestly, how many people would have missed England in a major final if they tested positive? Even if showing symptoms? Im sceptical. Everyone i know who went to Wembley (including myself and a friend who went to London for the Germany game) have had Covid. I know about 10 or so people who went and the Mrs knows a few through work (works in London) who watched the games in London who all ended up with Covid. Very anecdotal I know, so not a scientific study at all but I think it's obvious many people travelled to London with Covid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 47 minutes ago, CyderInACan said: I wonder how many Tilsons = the cost of Track & Trace? Several fruit markets worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReds Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 22 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Sorry but even "young and healthy" can get seriously ill from Covid and suffer long term effects, the risk of that is still higher than the risk of any vaccine side affects. That's not to downplay anyones concerns about the vaccine but it really is a numbers game and weighing up risk. I am not saying no young fit and healthy people don't get ill at all, or have long term effects, but the numbers tell you that it is such a low number then many will not want the vaccine - also nobody knows the long term effects of the vaccine either. To basically be forced to have it so you can go to a nightclub, gig, football match etc is just plain wrong and where/when does it stop? Vulnerable 12 year old are next, then what? All 12 year olds? All children? Mandatory flu jabs because people die every year from that, or you cannot go to the footy? It is completely wrong imo. What happens when one of these people who never wanted it gets extremely ill, has long term effects or even dies from having it? Their fault for wanting to go to a football match no doubt. It won't be the Governments fault or society telling them to have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, TheReds said: I am not saying no young fit and healthy people don't get ill at all, or have long term effects, but the numbers tell you that it is such a low number then many will not want the vaccine - also nobody knows the long term effects of the vaccine either. To basically be forced to have it so you can go to a nightclub, gig, football match etc is just plain wrong and where/when does it stop? Vulnerable 12 year old are next, then what? All 12 year olds? All children? Mandatory flu jabs because people die every year from that, or you cannot go to the footy? It is completely wrong imo. What happens when one of these people who never wanted it gets extremely ill, has long term effects or even dies from having it? Their fault for wanting to go to a football match no doubt. It won't be the Governments fault or society telling them to have it. The vaccine risk is still much lower than the risk from Covid, that's the whole basis upon which a vaccine is approved for use. You have to apply logic and take the emotion out of it IMO. I'm not one for refusing treatment to someone, but what happens if someone who never wanted the vaccine gets ill and spreads it around to several other people who despite being vaxxed are not 100% protected? Who's rights should be protected more? it's a tough question. I've stayed away from the children debate, luckily I dont have to worry about it personally and I can understand concerns on both sides of the debate, though i believe the risk from the vaccine still outweighs the risk from the virus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, TheReds said: I am not saying no young fit and healthy people don't get ill at all, or have long term effects, but the numbers tell you that it is such a low number then many will not want the vaccine - also nobody knows the long term effects of the vaccine either. To basically be forced to have it so you can go to a nightclub, gig, football match etc is just plain wrong and where/when does it stop? Vulnerable 12 year old are next, then what? All 12 year olds? All children? Mandatory flu jabs because people die every year from that, or you cannot go to the footy? It is completely wrong imo. What happens when one of these people who never wanted it gets extremely ill, has long term effects or even dies from having it? Their fault for wanting to go to a football match no doubt. It won't be the Governments fault or society telling them to have it. I suppose we KNOW for a fact that huge numbers of people have died or become extremely ill from Covid. How many people have been extremely ill from receiving the vaccine in comparison to catching the Covid virus? Flu jabs are not mandatory, they are given to people who are at risk from suffering complications as a result of catching flu such as asthma sufferers. Flu has been around for donkeys years and at no point has anyone suggested that you should have a jab in order to obtain a public event so not sure where you are going with your "where does it stop?" argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReds Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 34 minutes ago, Numero Uno said: I suppose we KNOW for a fact that huge numbers of people have died or become extremely ill from Covid. How many people have been extremely ill from receiving the vaccine in comparison to catching the Covid virus? Flu jabs are not mandatory, they are given to people who are at risk from suffering complications as a result of catching flu such as asthma sufferers. Flu has been around for donkeys years and at no point has anyone suggested that you should have a jab in order to obtain a public event so not sure where you are going with your "where does it stop?" argument. It wouldn't matter if it was 1 person was extremely ill from the vaccine or 10000 imo, the point is it should be a personal choice to have it or not, nobody knows how many may be ill in the future. We do know that huge numbers have died, but all of the most vulnerable have now been vaccinated so are as protected as they can be. Do we not let any unvaccinated people in the future to attend any events, assume that would also mean vaccine exempt people not allowed as well? Vaccinated people can still carry and pass it on (at about half the transmission I think) and they won't be tested anywhere but will still be passing it on, therefore the virus is here for life. So at what point are these people allowed to have their freedoms back? Since when has flu jabs only for the people you have mentioned? A couple of years ago I picked up a prescription and whilst waiting, the Pharmacist asked every single person in the shop if they wanted the flu jab, she didn't know anyones medical history, or asked any questions whatsoever, I could have had one if I wanted it. Of course nobody has suggested having the flu jab is mandatory, but it could easily be brought in now if they simply say "it will save more lives, everyone can do their bit". All mention of vaccine passports were dismissed numerous times, it was conspiracy theorists mentioning such a thing, there was Minister after Minister calling them discriminatory, won't ever happen etc etc etc. Yet here we are.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 36 minutes ago, TheReds said: It wouldn't matter if it was 1 person was extremely ill from the vaccine or 10000 imo, the point is it should be a personal choice to have it or not, nobody knows how many may be ill in the future. We do know that huge numbers have died, but all of the most vulnerable have now been vaccinated so are as protected as they can be. Do we not let any unvaccinated people in the future to attend any events, assume that would also mean vaccine exempt people not allowed as well? Vaccinated people can still carry and pass it on (at about half the transmission I think) and they won't be tested anywhere but will still be passing it on, therefore the virus is here for life. So at what point are these people allowed to have their freedoms back? Since when has flu jabs only for the people you have mentioned? A couple of years ago I picked up a prescription and whilst waiting, the Pharmacist asked every single person in the shop if they wanted the flu jab, she didn't know anyones medical history, or asked any questions whatsoever, I could have had one if I wanted it. Of course nobody has suggested having the flu jab is mandatory, but it could easily be brought in now if they simply say "it will save more lives, everyone can do their bit". All mention of vaccine passports were dismissed numerous times, it was conspiracy theorists mentioning such a thing, there was Minister after Minister calling them discriminatory, won't ever happen etc etc etc. Yet here we are.... The assumption I am making, it could be wrong, is that the "unjabbed" will effectively be penalised (people can call it what they like) for a period of time, not permanently, which will be such time as the Government deem that they have the virus under some sort of "control" (you certainly cannot claim that to be the case at the moment imo). Covid probably is a lifelong issue now like lots of viruses we no longer worry about due to vaccinations (e.g. Measles) but which still exist. There are enough people in the medical fraternity who will be very quick to speak up once they feel that the Government restrictions are no longer required. I do not believe in denying people the right to make a decision but sometimes when you make a personal decision you have to accept the shorter term and longer term consequences that go with it otherwise that's having your cake and eating it isn't it? My opinion is refusing the Covid jabs is a "right" that will have shorter term consequences for people that they will have to swallow in return for exercising that right, not longer term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 Gonna guess the following. The EFL make a statement saying that all clubs will need to do 'x,y and z' to get fans back in again, clubs will challenge this and the EFL will back down and say it's up to the clubs to manage. This will leave travelling supporters in limbo. Will also add to the whole vaccine choice debate and point out that alongside the vaccine, medicines are also being researched to help those who do get it to recover quicker. So some day, in some year, there is likely to be an alternative to prevention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC RISK77 Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Numero Uno said: The assumption I am making, it could be wrong, is that the "unjabbed" will effectively be penalised (people can call it what they like) for a period of time, not permanently, which will be such time as the Government deem that they have the virus under some sort of "control" (you certainly cannot claim that to be the case at the moment imo). Covid probably is a lifelong issue now like lots of viruses we no longer worry about due to vaccinations (e.g. Measles) but which still exist. There are enough people in the medical fraternity who will be very quick to speak up once they feel that the Government restrictions are no longer required. I do not believe in denying people the right to make a decision but sometimes when you make a personal decision you have to accept the shorter term and longer term consequences that go with it otherwise that's having your cake and eating it isn't it? My opinion is refusing the Covid jabs is a "right" that will have shorter term consequences for people that they will have to swallow in return for exercising that right, not longer term. Can I ask a question that I have no idea what the answer is at all that may add a layer of complexity to longer term covid implications. The vaccine take up is clearly impressive in uk and we appear to have less sceptics than other countries. My question is that if the fear train starts slowing down over the next year and you need a booster jab every 6 months to keep your level of immunity, what happens if that high take up drops if more data is available by then of longer term effects of the vaccine (if their is any) or previously vaccinated people feel they don’t want to have a booster? Will we go back to lockdown days or will the govt become even more authoritarian? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numero Uno Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said: Can I ask a question that I have no idea what the answer is at all that may add a layer of complexity to longer term covid implications. The vaccine take up is clearly impressive in uk and we appear to have less sceptics than other countries. My question is that if the fear train starts slowing down over the next year and you need a booster jab every 6 months to keep your level of immunity, what happens if that high take up drops if more data is available by then of longer term effects of the vaccine (if their is any) or previously vaccinated people feel they don’t want to have a booster? Will we go back to lockdown days or will the govt become even more authoritarian? I'm not sure what will happen but I do think it would be inevitable that if a booster jab was needed every 6 months there would be a significant reduction in uptake over time from people who are not in the vulnerable categories. That will no doubt lead to increases in hospitalisations and deaths again and depending on speed of transmission you could potentially be back in a restrictive situation (i.e lockdown). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, TheReds said: It wouldn't matter if it was 1 person was extremely ill from the vaccine or 10000 imo, the point is it should be a personal choice to have it or not, nobody knows how many may be ill in the future. We do know that huge numbers have died, but all of the most vulnerable have now been vaccinated so are as protected as they can be. Do we not let any unvaccinated people in the future to attend any events, assume that would also mean vaccine exempt people not allowed as well? Vaccinated people can still carry and pass it on (at about half the transmission I think) and they won't be tested anywhere but will still be passing it on, therefore the virus is here for life. So at what point are these people allowed to have their freedoms back? Since when has flu jabs only for the people you have mentioned? A couple of years ago I picked up a prescription and whilst waiting, the Pharmacist asked every single person in the shop if they wanted the flu jab, she didn't know anyones medical history, or asked any questions whatsoever, I could have had one if I wanted it. Of course nobody has suggested having the flu jab is mandatory, but it could easily be brought in now if they simply say "it will save more lives, everyone can do their bit". All mention of vaccine passports were dismissed numerous times, it was conspiracy theorists mentioning such a thing, there was Minister after Minister calling them discriminatory, won't ever happen etc etc etc. Yet here we are.... That is a fair point tbh. Having a fully vaccinated crowd doesn't mean half of them dont have the virus, I guess it's just that if anyone did have it the symptoms would be less noticable, the viral load they are spreading is greatly reduced etc. its a lower risk Edited July 20, 2021 by MarcusX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 minutes ago, MarcusX said: That is a fair point tbh. Having a fully vaccinated crowd doesn't mean half of them dont have the virus Could be 25,000 of us waking up to the PING! the day after the opening game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-Robbo Posted July 20, 2021 Report Share Posted July 20, 2021 15 minutes ago, MarcusX said: That is a fair point tbh. Having a fully vaccinated crowd doesn't mean half of them dont have the virus, I guess it's just that if anyone did have it the symptoms would be less noticable, the viral load they are spreading is greatly reduced etc. its a lower risk Correct. It is possible, but incredibly unlikely, that you'll catch Covid from inhaling one viron. It is possible, but incredibly unlikely, that you'll catch Covid from inhaling 10 virons. It is quite likely you'll catch Covid if a heavily infected, unvaccinated person sneezes near you and you end up ingesting 20,000 virons. It is possibly, but less likely, that you'll catch Covid if an infected but vaccinated person sneezes near you and you pick up 500 virons. The virus is all around us now, but in those of who are double-jabbed our immune system cells are beating up the vast majority of it we encounter. Even if enough get through that we can be considered "infected" our viral loads will be a lot lower, which is why we'd be much less likely to pass the infection on. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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