Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said: Vaccination is clearly part of the solution as it has been in medicine for decades already. Nothing is being "enforced" regarding anyone not taking the vaccine, it's the individual's choice. From speaking with a GP friend, the issue isn't "anti-vaxxers" or people unwilling to take the jab anyway. They make up such a tiny minority of the population that we will reach herd immunity without them. All I will say is, good job the majority have stepped up, otherwise we'd be in a permanent state of lockdowns and restrictions - and properly enforced ones too. 34 minutes ago, italian dave said: So a) you're evidently of the Johnson "anyone over 80 doesn't really matter" view, only taking it that much further b) haven't fully read the small item you've circled: "The deaths aren't necessarily caused by the vaccine though" I really don't know why this has to keep being pointed out, but if you base your view on what's recorded on the yellow card scheme, then you'll believe that the vaccine can get you pregnant, give you insect bites, make you redundant and a whole manner of other things. When did i say they don’t matter? I wasn’t against the vaccine until they went to the lengths of trying to make us all have it. Give it to those at risk and anyone else’s who wants it. Trying to make everyone have it, is dis-proportionate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
!james Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Riaz said: What, because i haven’t been scared into having a vaccine i don’t need? And most of us don’t need. I think for myself and don’t trust the government and elites. Why would i. Most the time they try and **** us over. Many parts of the world don’t have running water or other basic needs. I bet these people that care so much, make sure they have the vaccine tho! "I think for myself" and "sheep" just need "MSM" for the hat trick! it's alarming that people like you will always found the 1 "virologist/pidemiologist" that has the alternative view and dismiss the other hundreds who don't share your view on a particular subject. Then "we" get constantly told we are naive, gullible, sheeple etc etc because we follow the MSM and can't think for ourselves because you are one of the few people that knows "the truth". Unfortunately as seen on many other social media platforms most people are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole they can't back down, and come across massively arrogant - see OpenEnd on the Covid thread for a classic example. Bottom line fuelling vaccine hesitancy by posting false narratives, wild conspiracy theories and out-of-context stats endangers our return to normality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Super said: Obviously your choice not to have it. Your life will obviously be a lot different. And you are happy about that? Our freedom is now based on whether we inject chemicals in our body. Freedom based on an injection… is not freedom. Welcome to China Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Riaz said: Did you just say that About a million people injured according to government figures is the reality And apparently only 1-10% of issues get reported Brilliant free thinking again, did you miss this bit during your no doubt extensive research? "The nature of Yellow Card reporting means that reported events are not always proven side effects. Some events may have happened anyway, regardless of vaccination. This is particularly the case when millions of people are vaccinated, and especially when most vaccines are being given to the most elderly people and people who have underlying illness." "It is important to note that Yellow Card data cannot be used to derive side effect rates or compare the safety profile of COVID-19 vaccinations as many factors can influence ADR reporting." "It is very important to note that a Yellow Card report does not necessarily mean the vaccine caused that reaction or event." How about this bit from the exact same scheme you're linking? "Vaccines are the best way to protect people from COVID-19 and have already saved thousands of lives. Everyone should continue to get their vaccination when asked to do so unless specifically advised otherwise." Or is all that stuff not trustworthy, but the bit you linked is? Edited July 23, 2021 by IAmNick 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, IAmNick said: Hahah, you mean like posting a fullfact.org post and not reading it? Or using their quote of the facebook article they're debunking to back up your point? True free thought! Absolutely laughable. The same method has been used to count Covid deaths! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 50 minutes ago, Riaz said: Plenty of scientists out there, that disagree with this vaccine. And there are also scientists who disagree with vaccinating the whole population, because that has negative consequences. Then you have the fact that it was rushed. No idea about long term affects. And then i have my suspicions, based on the fact, for the first time in history we are vaccinating the whole population for something that IS NOT deadly to healthy people. In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. I also tend to react to stuff - i had antibiotics in 2017 to treat pneumonia and they ****** my kidneys for life. So i am wary of sticking things in my body. Your choice is to trust it and i respect that. Please respect my choice. Rushed? Not true. Second bold comment is not only untrue, but quite controversial. Firstly what do you define as "healthy" ? Take a look at the people who are high risk, do they not deserve to be safe? People receiving cancer treatment are high risk, many will survive their cancer diagnosis. My mum did and still here 15 years later, I'd be raging if at that moment someone declared her "unhealthy" and not worth worrying about. What about diabetics and ashmatics? They have health conditions but generally live pretty normal lives. Pregnant women are high risk, they unhealthy? (bit of a contentious point as they also aren't having the vaccine, but then agian we are vacinating to keep them safer) Third bold comment is quite frankly bollocks. How many people have died BECAUSE of the vaccine? This will help https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales June = 4, May = 3. Cant be bothered to look back any further because the answer is clear. Even in October 4.5k people had died with no underlying health conditions: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnounderlyinghealthconditionsbrokendownbyage Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours is awful (and to be brutally honest uneducated) on this matter, and that's a shame because I usually agree with a lot of your points particularly in the politics side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 8 minutes ago, RedRaw said: But you’re happy to put your faith and quote ‘facts’ from an online, conspiracy theory, anti-vax outlet…..not really thinking for yourself I’d say Most of things I’m sharing are from the governments own website. About 1 million injuries reported already… but yeah just dismiss me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, !james said: "I think for myself" and "sheep" just need "MSM" for the hat trick! it's alarming that people like you will always found the 1 "virologist/pidemiologist" that has the alternative view and dismiss the other hundreds who don't share your view on a particular subject. Then "we" get constantly told we are naive, gullible, sheeple etc etc because we follow the MSM and can't think for ourselves because you are one of the few people that knows "the truth". Unfortunately as seen on many other social media platforms most people are so far down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole they can't back down, and come across massively arrogant - see OpenEnd on the Covid thread for a classic example. Bottom line fuelling vaccine hesitancy by posting false narratives, wild conspiracy theories and out-of-context stats endangers our return to normality. Some of these scientists, are recognised as top scientists in the world. They may have since got flak for going against the mainstream narrative. But you do realise, scientists can be corrupted? So it’s not the mainstream scientists that i don’t trust, it’s the system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Rushed? Not true. Second bold comment is not only untrue, but quite controversial. Firstly what do you define as "healthy" ? Take a look at the people who are high risk, do they not deserve to be safe? People receiving cancer treatment are high risk, many will survive their cancer diagnosis. My mum did and still here 15 years later, I'd be raging if at that moment someone declared her "unhealthy" and not worth worrying about. What about diabetics and ashmatics? They have health conditions but generally live pretty normal lives. Pregnant women are high risk, they unhealthy? (bit of a contentious point as they also aren't having the vaccine, but then agian we are vacinating to keep them safer) Third bold comment is quite frankly bollocks. How many people have died BECAUSE of the vaccine? This will help https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales June = 4, May = 3. Cant be bothered to look back any further because the answer is clear. Even in October 4.5k people had died with no underlying health conditions: https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/transparencyandgovernance/freedomofinformationfoi/covid19deathswithnounderlyinghealthconditionsbrokendownbyage Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but yours is awful (and to be brutally honest uneducated) on this matter, and that's a shame because I usually agree with a lot of your points particularly in the politics side. Rushed. They didn’t do it for longer than a year, so have no idea of long term affects. I’m saying, those high risk, should probably get the vaccine. But the rest of us, ESPECIALLY our children, shouldn’t be forced to take the risk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Riaz said: The same method has been used to count Covid deaths! Actually we have a number of ways we count them. Excess deaths (up around 85k in 2020 alone), deaths within 27 days of a positive test (about 130k), and deaths with covid on the death certificate (around 150k). There's also the issue of your argument being: - I don't trust the government! - But here's some government data and data from the yellow card scheme to back up what I said - But don't look at the rest of the government data, or the rest of the yellow card scheme, I don't trust that again (because it doesn't agree with my very specific viewpoint) It's completely logically inconsistent Edited July 23, 2021 by IAmNick 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 I’ve trusted medicine before and antibiotics ****** my kidneys. So I’m not in a rush to put a vaccine in my system. That should be my choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, Riaz said: Most of things I’m sharing are from the governments own website. About 1 million injuries reported already… but yeah just dismiss me "Injuries"... the absolute vast majority are things like "sore arm" you just missed that off your screenshot as it doesn't agree with what you were saying. And WHY do you trust that specific government data, but not all the other government data telling you to get the vaccine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, IAmNick said: Actually we have a number of ways we count them. Excess deaths (up around 85k in 2020 alone), deaths within 27 days of a positive test (about 130k), and deaths with covid on the death certificate (around 150k). There's also the issue of your argument being: - I don't trust the government! - But here's some government data and data from the yellow card scheme to back up what I said - But don't look at the rest of the government data, or the rest of the yellow card scheme, I don't trust that again (because it doesn't agree with my very specific viewpoint) It's completely logically inconsistent I don’t trust those at the top. Data will be collated by normal every day people. Doing their jobs. And you ask me for a source… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Riaz said: Most of things I’m sharing are from the governments own website. About 1 million injuries reported already… but yeah just dismiss me As you say, we should all think for ourselves.…so yes, I will take up your offer of dismissing you and your alarmist, conspiratorial ranting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 56 minutes ago, Riaz said: I can’t find the figures for Covid deaths for healthy people under 60, but last time i checked it was under 1000. Deaths from vaccine 1470 and counting. Covid has been here’s for 16 months and most people have only just been vaccinated 7 minutes ago, Riaz said: Did you just say that About a million people injured according to government figures is the reality And apparently only 1-10% of issues get reported 3 minutes ago, Riaz said: The same method has been used to count Covid deaths! Sorry to do this in the football chat but these type of uneducated views need to be challenged. It's dangerous and it's stopping us from getting back to normal! First quote. That is people who have died AND have had the vaccine, not because. Correlation does not equal causation. Unfortunately, the people who had the vaccine first were the oldest and most vulnerable in society so as you pointed out with your very sympathetic "unhealthy" claim, they weren't in the best health and covid likely was the least of their concerns. This doesn't contradict my previous point, because these people still had every right to be protected from Covid. Second quote. This again is a list of symptoms people have had AND had the vaccine. Included in those symptoms are things such as suicide, abortion, pregnancy and even STIs. I'm sure you agree the vaccine didn't cause abortion or suicide? It's just things that have happened and coincidentally that person had the vaccine, because a large proportion of the population have had a jab. It does NOT mean that the vaccine caused those conditions. Third quote. 28 days reporting was used on Covid deaths because on average 88% of deaths occured within 28 days and 96% (i think) within 60 days. (was also used to bring the UK inline with other countries reporting metrics) Using that same figure for vaccines has zero relevance. It's a reporting measure that was able to capture deaths on a daily basis and provide an update. If you wait for the death certificate it could take weeks or longer. It is evident by the fact that deaths have plummeted that we do not have hundreds of people dying from other causes being put down as Covid, particularly as we have so many cases right now. If anything, more cases were missed because of this 28 day reporting. Take a look at the dashboard, deaths that include covid on the death certificate are significantly higher than the 28 day reporting figure - and excess deaths back this up. 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
italian dave Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Riaz said: When did i say they don’t matter? I wasn’t against the vaccine until they went to the lengths of trying to make us all have it. Give it to those at risk and anyone else’s who wants it. Trying to make everyone have it, is dis-proportionate But there is a reason for trying to make everyone have it and that is - as has been touched on - unless you get sufficient people vaccinated to stop exponential transmission (ie keep the R0 below 1) then it will keep spreading and the risk of further lockdowns etc goes with that. The best chance of getting back to 'normal', and of ending the need for restrictions is directly related to the number of people getting the vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 In a few years, when birth rates are down, lots of people have suffered from side affects… I will be proven right. If not, paranoid. In the meantime, i shouldn’t be forced to take something or lose my freedoms. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Riaz said: Rushed. They didn’t do it for longer than a year, so have no idea of long term affects. I’m saying, those high risk, should probably get the vaccine. But the rest of us, ESPECIALLY our children, shouldn’t be forced to take the risk It went through the same clinical trials as other vaccines, it just went quicker because of the man power and money that was put into it. It was given an emergency license so that it could start to be produced even before stage 3 trials were completed. No other reason The vaccine protects those at high risk. If 80% of the population let covid roam free it will mutate into something that the vaccine is ineffective against. Children is another matter I agree, I've stayed out of that debate 1 minute ago, Riaz said: In a few years, when birth rates are down, lots of people have suffered from side affects… I will be proven right. If not, paranoid. In the meantime, i shouldn’t be forced to take something or lose my freedoms. and if you are wrong, and keep spreading this shit trying to discourage people from taking the jab then thousands more could die from Covid One of those scenarios is far more likely than the other based on evidence so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenred Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Riaz said: In a few years, when birth rates are down, lots of people have suffered from side affects… I will be proven right. If not, paranoid. In the meantime, i shouldn’t be forced to take something or lose my freedoms. Oooooo a new piece of bull to add to the bullshit pie! Edited July 23, 2021 by lenred 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 7 minutes ago, MarcusX said: It went through the same clinical trials as other vaccines, it just went quicker because of the man power and money that was put into it. It was given an emergency license so that it could start to be produced even before stage 3 trials were completed. No other reason The vaccine protects those at high risk. If 80% of the population let covid roam free it will mutate into something that the vaccine is ineffective against. Children is another matter I agree, I've stayed out of that debate and if you are wrong, and keep spreading this shit trying to discourage people from taking the jab then thousands more could die from Covid One of those scenarios is far more likely than the other based on evidence so far. I’m not trying to discourage anyone. I kept my mouth shut until it become apparent, that i would almost be forced to have the vaccine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, Riaz said: I’ve trusted medicine before and antibiotics ****** my kidneys. So I’m not in a rush to put a vaccine in my system. That should be my choice. I can fully understand that perspective. My friend broke his leg playing football, wasn't given the right medication after and suffered a blood clot and now can't play football again because it screwed his lungs up. I wouldn't go and tell people not to have an operation though. Another friends sister has suffered a blood clot after the vaccine. It's very sad that happened but it's statistically so rare. You are entitled to not take the vaccine, you are entitled to tell people your story and let them make their own decision. You shouldn't though manipulate data to suit your narrative and try and co-erce people into not taking the vaccine. You say " I havent been scared into taking the vaccine" - no you've been scared into not taking it by false information. I'm only so passionate about this because I am desperate to get back to normality. That doesn't happen if we don't get the population (world, not just us) vaccinated so as for third world countries which you mentioned, i've said all along I want to see us doing all we can to share our supplies. Everyone deserves the same opportunity to receive the jab. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 Heres a credible scientist, who believes in vaccines (as i do) But he thinks vaccinating everyone is a mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcusX Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, Riaz said: I’m not trying to discourage anyone. I kept my mouth shut until it become apparent, that i would almost be forced to have the vaccine! Sharing disinformation is likely to discourage people though, especially on the football side where most people probably don't give a shit and dont pay too much attention - so to see something worrying like "more people have died from the vaccine than covid" might stand out to them. FWIW though I've said all along that I didn't like the idea of domestic vaccine passports because probably naively I didnt expect us to have 60k cases a day when we decided to remove all restrictions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021 Point 9, on the governments own website, alludes to the fact that mass vaccination, makes more variants more likely Apparently that note was only put on there, after pressure from scientists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 18 minutes ago, MarcusX said: Sharing disinformation is likely to discourage people though, especially on the football side where most people probably don't give a shit and dont pay too much attention - so to see something worrying like "more people have died from the vaccine than covid" might stand out to them. FWIW though I've said all along that I didn't like the idea of domestic vaccine passports because probably naively I didnt expect us to have 60k cases a day when we decided to remove all restrictions I’ve not shared any disinformation and I’ve mainly shared things from the governments websites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 13 minutes ago, Riaz said: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021 Point 9, on the governments own website, alludes to the fact that mass vaccination, makes more variants more likely Apparently that note was only put on there, after pressure from scientists Isn’t that the case with all viruses? Mutation is a natural part of a virus’ lifecycle. are you suggesting that we shouldn’t have bothered with a vaccination programme and just let the virus rip through the world population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNick Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Riaz said: Heres a credible scientist, who believes in vaccines (as i do) But he thinks vaccinating everyone is a mistake Why do you trust him rather than the many more "credible scientists" on the other side? 21 minutes ago, Riaz said: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021/sage-93-minutes-coronavirus-covid-19-response-7-july-2021 Point 9, on the governments own website, alludes to the fact that mass vaccination, makes more variants more likely Apparently that note was only put on there, after pressure from scientists That's minutes from a SAGE meeting, talking about high numbers of infections in combination with high levels of vaccination. 5 minutes ago, Riaz said: I’ve not shared any disinformation and I’ve mainly shared things from the governments websites You said this: 1 hour ago, Riaz said: In this country, more people have now died from the vaccine, than healthy people have died from covid. That's disinformation. You also said this: 59 minutes ago, Riaz said: About a million people injured according to government figures is the reality Which is missing a massive amount of context and being presented in an intentionally misleading and alarming way. Edited July 23, 2021 by IAmNick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Sinclair Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 David Icke has hacked the forum again I see - Jesus wept 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRaw Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ronnie Sinclair said: David Icke has hacked the forum again I see - Jesus wept Let’s hope Riaz has a better choice of ‘casual’ wear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted July 23, 2021 Report Share Posted July 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, IAmNick said: Why do you trust him rather than the many more "credible scientists" on the other side? That's minutes from a SAGE meeting, talking about high numbers of infections in combination with high levels of vaccination. You said this: That's disinformation. You also said this: Which is missing a massive amount of context and being presented in an intentionally misleading and alarming way. Why do i trust him and not mainstream scientists. Cos i know scientists, can be corrupted or have their careers destroyed if they speak the truth. This guy is putting his career on the line to say this - he has nothing to gain and a lot to lose. 2 minutes ago, RedRaw said: Let’s hope Riaz has a better choice of ‘casual’ wear Not a fan of David Icke, BUT a lot of predictions he has made, have come to pass! 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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