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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


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1 hour ago, E.G.Red said:

Agree we are getting ahead of ourselves but if we make it to Wembley I can’t see full crowds being back in May. I suspect it will be capped at about 30000 (1/3rd) and that’s being optimistic, with a beam back to Ashton Gate for possibly 7/9000 fans (again based on 1/3rd capacity)

 

 

Until recently I would have agreed with this, but it’s starting to look like a large proportion of the population - most importantly vulnerable categories - are likely to have been immunised by May. And we don’t all need to have had the jab for life to return to “normal”.

Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I think there’s a chance a play off final could be played in front of a full crowd. Sod’s law it will and I won’t get a ticket because City have let the membership scheme slide!

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I think the club should do a survey now to season ticket holders who wants to take the risk to go back and who doesn't. Personally I won't be returning until at least march or april hoping i will have taken the vaccine by then. So I hope the club will do this pretty soon. Hoping I can carry on watching robins tv whilst getting the refund. I'm in the 50-64 age group so I have a slightly higher risk than those of a younger age according to the BBC website.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54251632

P.S. China is gonna bring back soil samples from the moon. I can see a new virus on the horizon.

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4 minutes ago, T R said:

I think the club should do a survey now to season ticket holders who wants to take the risk to go back and who doesn't. Personally I won't be returning until at least march or april hoping i will have taken the vaccine by then. So I hope the club will do this pretty soon. Hoping I can carry on watching robins tv whilst getting the refund. I'm in the 50-64 age group so I have a slightly higher risk than those of a younger age according to the BBC website.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54251632

P.S. China is gonna bring back soil samples from the moon. I can see a new virus on the horizon.

I find it a bit odd that the club were not already in contact, but maybe they didn't want to risk people changing their minds either way?

A few guys I know are West Ham season ticket holders, they were asked before this season started whether they would be interested in being put into a ballot for tickets, and if they won who their "bubble" would include

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The return of crowds to outdoor sporting events is "something to celebrate for fans", says English Football League chairman Rick Parry.

A maximum of 4,000 fans will be allowed at events in the lowest-risk areas when England's lockdown ends on 2 December, with up to 2,000 in tier two but none in tier three.

Football across England's top four divisions has mainly been played behind closed doors since returning in June.

"This is a welcome start," said Parry.

"Fans have been frustrated, they're missing their football, so it's something to celebrate for fans, not just for the clubs.

"We have to build upon it because what we're really looking forward to is getting fans back in rather more substantial numbers."

Parry added that the financial impact of fans returning could be "very significant" for clubs in Leagues One and Two and even a "lifeline" for sides in the fourth tier.

"But it's not just the money, it's a very welcome return to atmosphere," he told BBC Radio Four's Today programme.

Parry said there was "a lot of hard work ahead" and the government's announcement of the new measures on Monday will have taken the clubs "a little bit by surprise" as they "weren't really expecting anything before Christmas".

"Some clubs will still have safety officers on furlough," he said. "There is a lot of work to do quite quickly and it's really important that we get this right.

"We've got to make sure that the clubs and the fans all behave responsibly."

There are six Championship, eight League One and seven League Two fixtures currently scheduled for Tuesday, 1 December and Parry said the EFL will be "as flexible as we can be" if matches could be moved to 2 December to accommodate fans.

However, he said they still need to wait to find out which clubs will be in which tier on Thursday and to get the "necessary permissions from the safety advisory groups".

Parry added that the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) have been "incredibly supportive" and said it was "great to see that government does listen" after sports governing bodies had been pushing for the return of fans.

He said the results of "extraordinarily successful" pilot events in various sports earlier this year showed fans could return in a safe manner.

The pilot programme was paused in September amid a rise in coronavirus cases.

The project, which saw the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and UK Sport working with Edinburgh University, found attendees had "high trust" in organisers to maintain their safety through measures like spaced-out seats and increased availability of hand sanitiser.

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21 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Until recently I would have agreed with this, but it’s starting to look like a large proportion of the population - most importantly vulnerable categories - are likely to have been immunised by May. And we don’t all need to have had the jab for life to return to “normal”.

Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I think there’s a chance a play off final could be played in front of a full crowd. Sod’s law it will and I won’t get a ticket because City have let the membership scheme slide!

I have similar concerns, season ticket holder for 20 years and may get caught out in the storm of plastics because I didn’t renew this year due to  all the uncertainty. I’m sure the membership scheme will be back if there’s a sniff of play offs coming up though

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13 minutes ago, phantom said:

I find it a bit odd that the club were not already in contact, but maybe they didn't want to risk people changing their minds either way?

A few guys I know are West Ham season ticket holders, they were asked before this season started whether they would be interested in being put into a ballot for tickets, and if they won who their "bubble" would include

I think they should say If you do not want to be in the ballot then you cannot re enter if you change your mind. I made my mind up and will stick to it. Would make it fair for those who comitted to going back from the start.

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26 minutes ago, sh1t_ref_again said:

As much as we all want to be back watching football, I can't believe we have not even come out of a national lockdown yet and talk of allowing such large gatherings is crazy. Unfortunately comments about asking people to be sensible and respect distancing are not going to happen, the major spread has been by the FU generation, who see themselves as not going to catch it and nobody is going to spoil their fun, so mingle close in pubs and party's with no consideration whatsoever who they may pass on to.

 

The problem is there is no logic / science / data to support the rationale for one “thing” being deemed safer than another thing.  We get mixed messages and it’s all based on whims / £s / who creates the most fuss.  They change the R method to suit their decisions.  They create a tiered system that’s not applied to a set of rules, so you end up with an area with a lower rate of infection in a higher tier than an are with a higher rate.

This is typified by 5k allowed in the Albert Hall, but football not allowed.

I’m suggesting consistency with decision making, transparency in the rationale and clear numbers to back up why.....rather than a mate has a vested interest / vested financial interest in x opening, therefore let’s do it.

Its awful leadership and it incites non-compliance.

We keep using other countries as examples of where things have worked well, but we never stop to look how compliant their people are socially as a nation, in perhaps understanding why it might have been a success in country A but not here.

Its dragging up old stuff, but as soon as your Leaders don’t lead (Johnson shaking hands / Cummings flouting lockdown) they give you a reason to challenge “well if they can do it, so can I”.  The problem is that they then turn full circle on you and blame you for not following the rules.  It’s hugely hypocritical but I firmly believe it’s what they want....it gives them their excuse, it shifts the blame....and we fall for it every time.

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Fully appreciate some fans will want to go but i have written off this season tbh, It's not great watching the games on TV but it's better than nothing. Really does seem an odd time to let fans back in though Considering how bad things are going to get after xmas.

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

Like before, I fully respect yours and @Sheltons Army opinion (among others), but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum we our views on this subject.

I'm of the believe that as long as the correct measures are followed, for everyone from the moment they leave home to returning home.

Pubs and public transport were working fine with the measures brought in, and with the social distancing added into the ground I would be very confident that it would be safe to return

I do appreciate people don't always agree with this, but for me the returning of games is much more than just watching a game of football.

As someone who still struggles with serious mental health problems I can't begin to tell you how much it would help someone like me

During the last lockdown I was a guest of a company having a meal etc and watching the Norwich game at the ground, the impact of just being around familiar surroundings and the odd familiar face was massive 

That can't be denied, but I wonder how much is down to people not following precautionary measures?

Have dropped you a private message mate.

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40 minutes ago, phantom said:

The return of crowds to outdoor sporting events is "something to celebrate for fans", says English Football League chairman Rick Parry.

A maximum of 4,000 fans will be allowed at events in the lowest-risk areas when England's lockdown ends on 2 December, with up to 2,000 in tier two but none in tier three.

Football across England's top four divisions has mainly been played behind closed doors since returning in June.

"This is a welcome start," said Parry.

"Fans have been frustrated, they're missing their football, so it's something to celebrate for fans, not just for the clubs.

"We have to build upon it because what we're really looking forward to is getting fans back in rather more substantial numbers."

Parry added that the financial impact of fans returning could be "very significant" for clubs in Leagues One and Two and even a "lifeline" for sides in the fourth tier.

"But it's not just the money, it's a very welcome return to atmosphere," he told BBC Radio Four's Today programme.

Parry said there was "a lot of hard work ahead" and the government's announcement of the new measures on Monday will have taken the clubs "a little bit by surprise" as they "weren't really expecting anything before Christmas".

"Some clubs will still have safety officers on furlough," he said. "There is a lot of work to do quite quickly and it's really important that we get this right.

"We've got to make sure that the clubs and the fans all behave responsibly."

There are six Championship, eight League One and seven League Two fixtures currently scheduled for Tuesday, 1 December and Parry said the EFL will be "as flexible as we can be" if matches could be moved to 2 December to accommodate fans.

However, he said they still need to wait to find out which clubs will be in which tier on Thursday and to get the "necessary permissions from the safety advisory groups".

Parry added that the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) have been "incredibly supportive" and said it was "great to see that government does listen" after sports governing bodies had been pushing for the return of fans.

He said the results of "extraordinarily successful" pilot events in various sports earlier this year showed fans could return in a safe manner.

The pilot programme was paused in September amid a rise in coronavirus cases.

The project, which saw the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and UK Sport working with Edinburgh University, found attendees had "high trust" in organisers to maintain their safety through measures like spaced-out seats and increased availability of hand sanitiser.

When does lockdown end. Government website says 4 weeks so is that midnight 2nd December, 3rd December 1st day out. Am a bit confused why people are saying the 2nd December for that’s not 4 weeks.

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11 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

When does lockdown end. Government website says 4 weeks so is that midnight 2nd December, 3rd December 1st day out. Am a bit confused why people are saying the 2nd December for that’s not 4 weeks.

My understanding is that lockdown in UK ends at 12:01am on Wednesday 2nd December which means the tiered system is due to take its place on the same day.

Either way it is a move forward and hopefully works out for clubs & spectators alike. My concern is what happens if an area moves from tier 1 to tier 2 and tickets have already been purchased for a game during this time. Which of those fans do you deny entry to ?

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16 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

When does lockdown end. Government website says 4 weeks so is that midnight 2nd December, 3rd December 1st day out. Am a bit confused why people are saying the 2nd December for that’s not 4 weeks.

Agree, I always assumed it would be from the Thursday

But widely being talked about at the Wednesday

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50 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Its dragging up old stuff, but as soon as your Leaders don’t lead (Johnson shaking hands / Cummings flouting lockdown) they give you a reason to challenge “well if they can do it, so can I”.  The problem is that they then turn full circle on you and blame you for not following the rules.  It’s hugely hypocritical but I firmly believe it’s what they want....it gives them their excuse, it shifts the blame....and we fall for it every time.

That's just used as an excuse for people to try and justify their actions of breaking the rules, people need to realise they are doing it for their friends and families not the government or Boris. The problem is we have a FU generation that only cares for themselves without a 2nd thought of the impact on others. You are correct that we cannot compare to other countries where more respect for the family is still important and thought given to actions and repercussions.

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1 hour ago, phantom said:

Like before, I fully respect yours and @Sheltons Army opinion (among others), but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum we our views on this subject.

I'm of the believe that as long as the correct measures are followed, for everyone from the moment they leave home to returning home.

Pubs and public transport were working fine with the measures brought in, and with the social distancing added into the ground I would be very confident that it would be safe to return

I do appreciate people don't always agree with this, but for me the returning of games is much more than just watching a game of football.

As someone who still struggles with serious mental health problems I can't begin to tell you how much it would help someone like me

During the last lockdown I was a guest of a company having a meal etc and watching the Norwich game at the ground, the impact of just being around familiar surroundings and the odd familiar face was massive 

That can't be denied, but I wonder how much is down to people not following precautionary measures?

I think you've hit the nail on the head with the last line. It's not that I dont believe a football ground can put in measures that on paper seek to ensure the safety of the fans - it's that I dont have faith in the people to follow the precautions in place. I see it day in day out at work, where someone is actually paid to enforce it - as soon as no one is looking masks off, shaking hands, sitting together in groups etc.

I dont think pubs were working fine, certainly not *some* of the ones I visited which admittedly wasn't many. 6 around a small table, people allowed to interact with other tables, queuing at the bar, standing around chatting, group selfies in the beer garden - all the things that weren't meant to be done but on paper the pub was fine, in practice different story.

And as my point originally opening additional things and encouraging *more* socialising only helps fuel that belief that there is less to be concerned about. Which is fine if that's the stance the government want to take, but it absolutely stinks after we've just had to suffer (and I use that term specifically) another national lockdown for a month. 

I completely emphasise with the mental aspect, I am very similar towards playing football and especially the gym for me. This isn't a personal argument just a difference of opinions, but ultimately we're all suffering here - I just want to think about the bigger picture and getting back to some kind of normality sooner, rather than rushing back to all the things we want to do and the end date being prolonged even further because infections spike again. Whether thats directly because of groups of people sat together at a football match or because their matchday routine involves them all meeting up before and after the game.

Lets not forget, this government told us at the time there was "no evidence" that an event like Cheltenham was going to increase infections. Common sense says thousands of people partying in beer tents is likely going to spread the virus.

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2 hours ago, ChippenhamRed said:

Until recently I would have agreed with this, but it’s starting to look like a large proportion of the population - most importantly vulnerable categories - are likely to have been immunised by May. And we don’t all need to have had the jab for life to return to “normal”.

Maybe I’m being too optimistic, but I think there’s a chance a play off final could be played in front of a full crowd. Sod’s law it will and I won’t get a ticket because City have let the membership scheme slide!

What are you basing this on? Last report I seen was saying the opposite, and there was no confirmed evidence that immunisation lasted that long if at all from catching covid.

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Apparently the Oxford vaccine takes six weeks from the first "half" jab to work as long as you have the full jab a month after the first one (so a further two weeks after the second jab). So for the vast majority of people that will be between March and May before you are actually covered by the vaccine. From a football perspective it seems obvious that we are looking at next season earliest before the Government allows crowds back in fullish numbers.

........and that's assuming there is a high take-up on the vaccine which is not as guaranteed as some might think!!

Edited by Numero Uno
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1 hour ago, Numero Uno said:

Apparently the Oxford vaccine takes six weeks from the first "half" jab to work as long as you have the full jab a month after the first one (so a further two weeks after the second jab). So for the vast majority of people that will be between March and May before you are actually covered by the vaccine. From a football perspective it seems obvious that we are looking at next season earliest before the Government allows crowds back in fullish numbers.

........and that's assuming there is a high take-up on the vaccine which is not as guaranteed as some might think!!

I honestly think that they will go along the lines of this "free pass" that has been mentioned

If you can prove that you are not infected there is no reason not to attend

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6 hours ago, MarcusX said:

This is such a selfish attitude. It stinks of "I want to do as much as I can as soon as I can" whereas some of us dont want another bloody lockdown. I'd rather wait til April to be able to attend football if it meant I dont spend (potentially) another month barely leaving my house again.

It's not down to the individual to assess his/her risk IMO because they cannot control who they then pass the virus on to.

A curiously sensitive response to something I clearly didn't say. I'm not even supporting the re-opening of stadia, simply saying if this is going to happen then we have to make our own decisions on whether we attend or not, based on how we perceive the risk and how we can individually minimise it.

How that translates into 'do as much as I can as soon as I can, and bring on another lockdown' is beyond me?

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2 hours ago, reddoc said:

A curiously sensitive response to something I clearly didn't say. I'm not even supporting the re-opening of stadia, simply saying if this is going to happen then we have to make our own decisions on whether we attend or not, based on how we perceive the risk and how we can individually minimise it.

How that translates into 'do as much as I can as soon as I can, and bring on another lockdown' is beyond me?

Maybe a little touchy, sorry. it was the "if you're concerned dont go" bit that got me, its not that simple. I'm concerned about another lockdown and getting out of this as soon as possible not a quick fix seeing football in a very diluted manner, so opening *more* events than we had leading us into a lockdown seems a bit mad to me. Or at least doing it so soon. Like I said a few times, discuss it, but lets get to january and to some sort of stable, trackable number of infections first?

I think to put it simply, I don't trust people to make the right decisions, we've already seen that large numbers cant do so and it's likely just human nature as opposed to any real malicous intent so I'm not blaming anyone as such.

Positive signs are there, low case numbers today whilst its not worth looking at one day in isolation I think the 7 day average is down 25% now. It would be a shame if we didnt capatilise on this again and really drive numbers down now there is better track and trace via the app.

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5 hours ago, MarcusX said:

What are you basing this on? Last report I seen was saying the opposite, and there was no confirmed evidence that immunisation lasted that long if at all from catching covid.

 

4 hours ago, Numero Uno said:

I think they meant vaccinated.......

Immunisation and vaccination mean the same thing (near enough). I meant getting the jab.

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Personally for me, I’m at work, working in peoples houses on a daily basis, yet I can’t visit my parents/Grandparents. Kids are at school, all that’s missing in my “usual” life is going to the pub after work on a Friday and being unable to go to the football. 
 

This is a small step in the right direction, you may disagree if you’re in the vulnerable category but I look forward to getting back down the Gate.

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8 hours ago, phantom said:

Like before, I fully respect yours and @Sheltons Army opinion (among others), but we are on opposite ends of the spectrum we our views on this subject.

I'm of the believe that as long as the correct measures are followed, for everyone from the moment they leave home to returning home.

Pubs and public transport were working fine with the measures brought in, and with the social distancing added into the ground I would be very confident that it would be safe to return

I do appreciate people don't always agree with this, but for me the returning of games is much more than just watching a game of football.

As someone who still struggles with serious mental health problems I can't begin to tell you how much it would help someone like me

During the last lockdown I was a guest of a company having a meal etc and watching the Norwich game at the ground, the impact of just being around familiar surroundings and the odd familiar face was massive 

That can't be denied, but I wonder how much is down to people not following precautionary measures?

Sorry to hear that. I hope people like you, are first on the list to be offered a ticket.

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I’m quite happy to go back as soon as permitted, think I have enough sense to avoid problems and stay safe.

I just can’t work out the logic of a Centrally determined local lockdown, seems something that should be locally determined. Then you hear that Tory MP’s are demanding that their areas are in a low tier, what’s the point of science, if it’s all determined by political allegiance and shoutiness?

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54 minutes ago, Chappers said:

I’m quite happy to go back as soon as permitted, think I have enough sense to avoid problems and stay safe.

I just can’t work out the logic of a Centrally determined local lockdown, seems something that should be locally determined. Then you hear that Tory MP’s are demanding that their areas are in a low tier, what’s the point of science, if it’s all determined by political allegiance and shoutiness?

Now its standard no negotiating, go and look at what constituencies are in tier 1, 2 and 3, check which are Tory and then look at infection rates/cases and bet you'll see plenty Tory constituencies 1 tier down from another where infection rates/cases are similar

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2 hours ago, MarcusX said:

Maybe a little touchy, sorry. it was the "if you're concerned dont go" bit that got me, its not that simple. I'm concerned about another lockdown and getting out of this as soon as possible not a quick fix seeing football in a very diluted manner, so opening *more* events than we had leading us into a lockdown seems a bit mad to me. Or at least doing it so soon. Like I said a few times, discuss it, but lets get to january and to some sort of stable, trackable number of infections first?

I think to put it simply, I don't trust people to make the right decisions, we've already seen that large numbers cant do so and it's likely just human nature as opposed to any real malicous intent so I'm not blaming anyone as such.

Positive signs are there, low case numbers today whilst its not worth looking at one day in isolation I think the 7 day average is down 25% now. It would be a shame if we didnt capatilise on this again and really drive numbers down now there is better track and trace via the app.

Fair enough . Couldn't fail to agree. Think we we're at cross purposes. 

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