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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


Loderingo

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48 minutes ago, big p said:

There are 10's of millions of people protesting against the loss of freedoms , You won't see it on the BBC news for obvious reasons, but of course there are all sorts of people there, good and bad.

I'm getting the feeling you are either on a wind up,:laugh:. Or cant grasp any other narrative than the one you have been spoon fed for the last year, which of course is a classic case of Stockholm Syndrome.  I really hope its not the latter.

Stop spouting complete garbage ffs. Pathetic.

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26 minutes ago, Bannerman said:

big P your logic is spot on, fear and paranoia blinds reason and logic. The media has turned its back on facts which is not a one way traffic. With respect to you, you’re at a lost cause for those who don’t want see or hear, but good luck if you can wake their awareness 

I think I am :laugh:, time to leave the convo.

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8 minutes ago, big p said:

I think I am :laugh:, time to leave the convo.

Funny how you leave after being proven wrong though, without response.

You'd have gained far more respect if you replied and said actually, yes I was wrong the BBC did report it

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4 minutes ago, Super said:

Take the others with you.

Because people have differing opinions, what a weird bunch of people are in this group...Will we be proven right probably, maybe not. But one thing is certain people like you will be sitting in front of the BBC news waiting for the daily case count( which is completely odd to me) believing all the bullshit they spill to you. Unable in any capacity to question anything the media/government tells you.. Sit down dont wear a mask, stand up you wear it, yes sir...

lots of us who are questioning the narrative have been living safe and happy lives, whereas some people are still sh*ting themselves behind the sofa...

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13 minutes ago, big p said:

Because people have differing opinions, what a weird bunch of people are in this group...Will we be proven right probably, maybe not. But one thing is certain people like you will be sitting in front of the BBC news waiting for the daily case count( which is completely odd to me) believing all the bullshit they spill to you. Unable in any capacity to question anything the media/government tells you.. Sit down dont wear a mask, stand up you wear it, yes sir...

lots of us who are questioning the narrative have been living safe and happy lives, whereas some people are still sh*ting themselves behind the sofa...

You are just full of nonsense I’m afraid. People have tried to engage with you in an adult conversation but time and again you either can’t prove or even back up to any extent your argument, write childish responses (see new items above) or just write rubbish which is immediately disproved to which you then get upset and or defensive about.  This is a common theme across most anti vaxxer contributions I see across social media and in discussion threads.  No one here is ‘shitting themselves behind the sofa’ just wanting to do what is right and proper based upon the facts available. 

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2 minutes ago, big p said:

Because people have differing opinions, what a weird bunch of people are in this group...Will we be proven right probably, maybe not. But one thing is certain people like you will be sitting in front of the BBC news waiting for the daily case count( which is completely odd to me) believing all the bullshit they spill to you. Unable in any capacity to question anything the media/government tells you.. Sit down dont wear a mask, stand up you wear it, yes sir...

lots of us who are questioning the narrative have been living safe and happy lives, whereas some people are still sh*ting themselves behind the sofa...

As I said, you can hold any opinion you choose even if there is no evidence to support it. But you can't make factual claims without supporting them with evidence. Like claiming the BBC did not report the protests for example.

You can hold an irrational view that there is a world wide conspiracy between governments, epidemiologists, the entire medical profession, the media and others but you may not get much traction without the evidence.

To quote another long standing saying, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

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16 minutes ago, big p said:

Because people have differing opinions, what a weird bunch of people are in this group...Will we be proven right probably, maybe not. But one thing is certain people like you will be sitting in front of the BBC news waiting for the daily case count( which is completely odd to me) believing all the bullshit they spill to you. Unable in any capacity to question anything the media/government tells you.. Sit down dont wear a mask, stand up you wear it, yes sir...

lots of us who are questioning the narrative have been living safe and happy lives, whereas some people are still sh*ting themselves behind the sofa...

Again, do yourself and your case no favours when writing things like this. Who is "sitting in front of the bbc" (probably taken straight from a social media meme)? 

Please, find someone, anyone, that believes, trusts or otherwise supports this government in this thread? 

Spouting utter nonsense repeated from your rabbit hole youtube videos, and because you've got no further substance than those intial soundbites you can't actually participate in a reasoned debate.

Some things that are questioned by the anti-vax / anti-gov / truth seekers whatever you want to call yourselves, are valid but you dont seem able to debate them. As I said in a previous post, it's all or nothing with you guys.

At least some like @Baba Yaga and @LoyalRed who have differing views are able to debate, and at times they might get picked apart (often by several people at once unfortunately) if they post something that's factually questionable but generally their opinions are respected (they may think otherwise 😂) and they make some fair points.

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4 minutes ago, lenred said:

You are just full of nonsense I’m afraid. People have tried to engage with you in an adult conversation but time and again you either can’t prove or even back up to any extent your argument, write childish responses (see new items above) or just write rubbish which is immediately disproved to which you then get upset and or defensive about.  This is a common theme across most anti vaxxer contributions I see across social media and in discussion threads.  No one here is ‘shitting themselves behind the sofa’ just wanting to do what is right and proper based upon the facts available. 

How the bloody hell can I be an antivaxer, when I've been double jabbed :laugh:... I'm really struggling to understand some people here.. Believe what you like and enjoy life but please stop being angry. It's such a waste of energy.

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6 minutes ago, lenred said:

You are just full of nonsense I’m afraid. People have tried to engage with you in an adult conversation but time and again you either can’t prove or even back up to any extent your argument, write childish responses (see new items above) or just write rubbish which is immediately disproved to which you then get upset and or defensive about.  This is a common theme across most anti vaxxer contributions I see across social media and in discussion threads.  No one here is ‘shitting themselves behind the sofa’ just wanting to do what is right and proper based upon the facts available. 

There used to be as saying that went round a few years ago that went "you can't educate pork" Big P is one of those examples, the facts stare him in the face yet still he doesn't want to accept them. 

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Just now, MarcusX said:

Again, do yourself and your case no favours when writing things like this. Who is "sitting in front of the bbc" (probably taken straight from a social media meme)? 

Please, find someone, anyone, that believes, trusts or otherwise supports this government in this thread? 

Spouting utter nonsense repeated from your rabbit hole youtube videos, and because you've got no further substance than those intial soundbites you can't actually participate in a reasoned debate.

Some things that are questioned by the anti-vax / anti-gov / truth seekers whatever you want to call yourselves, are valid but you dont seem able to debate them. As I said in a previous post, it's all or nothing with you guys.

At least some like @Baba Yaga and @LoyalRed who have differing views are able to debate, and at times they might get picked apart (often by several people at once unfortunately) if they post something that's factually questionable but generally their opinions are respected (they may think otherwise 😂) and they make some fair points.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know my purpose in life was to appease people I don't know hiding behind an avatar on a forum I rarely contribute. OK I'll change my stance and get a season ticket and produce a covid passport... OK !

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4 minutes ago, pillred said:

There used to be as saying that went round a few years ago that went "you can't educate pork" Big P is one of those examples, the facts stare him in the face yet still he doesn't want to accept them. 

I've been double jabbed .. Christ sake please catch up.

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2 minutes ago, big p said:

How the bloody hell can I be an antivaxer, when I've been double jabbed :laugh:... I'm really struggling to understand some people here.. Believe what you like and enjoy life but please stop being angry. It's such a waste of energy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but your objection seems to be to vaccine passports.

There are legitimate objections from both the left and right of the political spectrum - I see the Labour party has come out against and a number of Tory MPs have publicly opposed them. Personally I'm not keen on requiring them by law though I accept individual businesses should be free to decide their own policies.

None of the legitimate objections relies on conspiracy theories though, which is where we part company.

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5 minutes ago, big p said:

How the bloody hell can I be an antivaxer, when I've been double jabbed :laugh:... I'm really struggling to understand some people here.. Believe what you like and enjoy life but please stop being angry. It's such a waste of energy.

I love life thank you, far from ‘shitting myself behind my sofa’  I’ve been to lots of events since ‘freedom day’ (🤮) - cricket, football and tennis - the key point to me being all of these events required people to prove a negative  test or a covid passport. Seems people are now faking negative tests and so it’ll have to go down the passport route for now for those that are able to have the vaccine - it’s very very simple and if you don’t want to comply that’s your choice. Simple.  

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5 minutes ago, lenred said:

I love life thank you, far from ‘shitting myself behind my sofa’  I’ve been to lots of events since ‘freedom day’ (🤮) - cricket, football and tennis - the key point to me being all of these events required people to prove a negative  test or a covid passport. Seems people are now faking negative tests and so it’ll have to go down the passport route for now for those that are able to have the vaccine - it’s very very simple and if you don’t want to comply that’s your choice. 

 

Good on you, but I will always try and stand by people who refuse to comply. Its their choice and for what ever reason they don't comply quite frankly its no ones business... But the blackmail and coercion is disgusting.

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2 minutes ago, big p said:

 

Good on you, but I will always try and stand by people who refuse to comply. Its their choice and for what ever reason they don't comply quite frankly its no ones business... But the blackmail and coercion is disgusting.

There is no blackmail and no coercion - it’s for the good of all of us that as many people as possible take up the vaccine. For those who don’t its their personal choice. 

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21 minutes ago, lenred said:

There is no blackmail and no coercion - it’s for the good of all of us that as many people as possible take up the vaccine. For those who don’t its their personal choice. 

Of course there is, no one knows what the implications of this vaccine will be in 10 years, no one!

Hopefully there won't be any side effects 

So to say to healthy 19 year old kids if you don't have your vaccine then you probably won't be able to go in a nightclub come September is not only morally wrong but blackmail.

Kids are not here to protect us we as parents are here to protect them,in my opinion but clearly its not general the consensus within this group. And that's OK, we should be allowed differing opinions.

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2 minutes ago, big p said:

Of course there is, no one knows what the implications of this vaccine will be in 10 years, no one!

Hopefully there won't be any side effects 

So to say to healthy 19 year old kids if you don't have your vaccine then you probably won't be able to go in a nightclub come September is not only morally wrong but blackmail.

Kids are not here to protect us we as parents are here to protect them,in my opinion but clearly its not general consensus within this group. And that's OK, we should be allowed differing opinions.

I could start up a new set of arguments here easily but tbh it’s been done to death and rightly you are allowed your opinion and we’ll just never agree.  I do find your staunch position strange given you’ve been happy to have it yourself mind, but at least in that respect you are protecting yourself and your family, friends, NHS and fellow citizens so good on you for that.  Have a good rest of your day.  

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1 minute ago, lenred said:

I could start up a new set of arguments here easily but tbh it’s been done to death and rightly you are allowed your opinion and we’ll just never agree.  I do find your staunch position strange given you’ve been happy to have it yourself mind, but at least in that respect you are protecting yourself and your family, friends, NHS and fellow citizens so good on you for that.  Have a good rest of your day.  

My position is that to have it is my choice, and I will never impose pressure on someone to have against their will. Never!

 

Quick question before I go, are you in favour in babies and kids having it?

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3 minutes ago, big p said:

My position is that to have it is my choice, and I will never impose pressure on someone to have against their will. Never!

 

Quick question before I go, are you in favour in babies and kids having it?

And as a 19 year old (who you quoted earlier) you are treated as an adult - can go to war, marry, buy a house etc etc etc so you can make a choice to have a vaccine. My 21 year old sister in law has as have her pals - slightly older I know but still……..she’s not been blackmailed into it but chosen to have it to protect her and her family and her friends and fellow students etc……

Regards babies and children I would need to see what the official NHS and medical advice was and take it from there but if it’s safe for them to do so then yes of course. Likewise if it is deemed they shouldn’t have it or there is no need for them to have it then I will likewise respect that. Why?

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4 minutes ago, big p said:

Of course there is, no one knows what the implications of this vaccine will be in 10 years, no one!

Hopefully there won't be any side effects 

So to say to healthy 19 year old kids if you don't have your vaccine then you probably won't be able to go in a nightclub come September is not only morally wrong but blackmail.

Kids are not here to protect us we as parents are here to protect them,in my opinion but clearly its not general consensus within this group. And that's OK, we should be allowed differing opinions.

:facepalm:

You don't really understand vaccines do you?

They aren't implants, that stay inside you for years. All they are is a wake up call to your immune system. After a day or so, it's just your own bloodstream doing all the clever stuff about remembering a pathogen.

It isn't the Manchurian Candidate - your immune system won't suddenly kill you 10 years after you've had an injection.

And it isn't a case that "nobody knows this". People do know this, because the basic mechanism for ALL vaccines is the same. And we've had mass vaccination campaigns since the 1950s; campaigns that have eradicated a number of dangerous diseases from the West.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look in a way, I share some of your doubts as to whether a Vaccine Passport should really be necessary at AG. I certainly can imagine the government and our club buggering up the implementation!

HOWEVER, if it decides it is, it isn't "blackmail and coercion". Your life doesn't depend on watching City live. No one's does.

AG is a private premise. It has always had rules that govern entrance: Some set by the FA or the government; some set by the club.

If it's decided it's necessary to keep people safe at a time that our infection rate is the highest in the world (and despite the fall over the last 7 days, it still is) then I think we have to live with it.  It will not be forever.  It is unlikely to be for very long at all. The last thing clubs want is to turn any potential customers away.

It certainly isn't worth having some libertarian tantrum over. 

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1 minute ago, lenred said:

And as a 19 year old (who you quoted earlier) you are treated as an adult - can go to war, marry, buy a house etc etc etc so you can make a choice to have a vaccine. My 21 year old sister in law has as have her pals - slightly older I know but still……..she’s not been blackmailed into it but chosen to have it to protect her and her family and her friends and fellow students etc……

Regards babies and children I would need to see what the official NHS and medical advice was and take it from there but if it’s safe for them to do so then yes of course. Likewise if it is deemed they shouldn’t have it or there is no need for them to have it then I will likewise respect that. 

No reason, I just had an inkling that you might say you were in favour... Thanks for the very insightful conversation 👍 Goto to go now.

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My biggest fear about these lunatics spouting unjustifiable nonsense is the way their nonsense will be used to try to bully those with genuinely held concerns about the direction of travel with regard to vaccine passports and that is dangerous.  

Personally I am really uncomfortable with the removal of access to normal things like football, concerts etc if you have not received 2 vaccinations.  It does not sit well at all.  

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22 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

:facepalm:

You don't really understand vaccines do you?

They aren't implants, that stay inside you for years. All they are is a wake up call to your immune system. After a day or so, it's just your own bloodstream doing all the clever stuff about remembering a pathogen.

It isn't the Manchurian Candidate - your immune system won't suddenly kill you 10 years after you've had an injection.

And it isn't a case that "nobody knows this". People do know this, because the basic mechanism for ALL vaccines is the same. And we've had mass vaccination campaigns since the 1950s; campaigns that have eradicated a number of dangerous diseases from the West.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look in a way, I share some of your doubts as to whether a Vaccine Passport should really be necessary at AG. I certainly can imagine the government and our club buggering up the implementation!

HOWEVER, if it decides it is, it isn't "blackmail and coercion". Your life doesn't depend on watching City live. No one's does.

AG is a private premise. It has always had rules that govern entrance: Some set by the FA or the government; some set by the club.

If it's decided it's necessary to keep people safe at a time that our infection rate is the highest in the world (and despite the fall over the last 7 days, it still is) then I think we have to live with it.  It will not be forever.  It is unlikely to be for very long at all. The last thing clubs want is to turn any potential customers away.

It certainly isn't worth having some libertarian tantrum over. 

Do you really understand? Please research 2010 Avian Flu H1N1 vaccine Pandemrix. This had class act lawsuits against Glaxo Smith Kline which apparently caused Narcolepsy... So you can really understand why some people are sceptical about new vaccines.

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17 minutes ago, big p said:

Oh hello again, looks like you're the conspiracy theorist now. 😄😄😄 

That's not what a conspiracy theory is.

You say you've had the vaccine, but I have no way of knowing if you're telling the truth.

If only there was something you could show to prove it.....

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What are some of these Vaccine obsessives afraid of exactly?

We're at the beginning of the end of Covid as a serious problem IMO, it'll fade away to something flu like or fairly moderate I reckon. Double jabbed should be ample protection.

How many under 50 have died of it in the UK? About 500 tops, and that's a guess by me- likely less.

Not that I would so much as even be open to condoning it but I wonder if we will see Wembley like scenes ie for the final at Nightclubs and specifically Sports Venues around the country if it comes in.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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