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The Coronavirus and its impact on sport/Fans Return (Merged)


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9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What are some of these Vaccine obsessives afraid of exactly?

We're at the beginning of the end of Covid as a serious problem IMO, it'll fade away to something flu like or fairly mild I reckon. Double jabbed should be ample protection.

What’s a vaccine fundamentalist? 

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1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wrong word by me, someone who believes there is no alternative to being double jabbed. Obsessive perhaps a better word.

So you’re classing the vast majority of people in this country who are protecting themselves, their friends and families, the NHS etc as obsessives and fundamentalists? Ok then…

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17 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

How many under 50 have died of it in the UK? About 500 tops, and that's a guess by me- likely less.

 

How many under 50s have long Covid?

Also the answer for COVID deaths for under 50's is 6,204.

Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

Edited by Selred
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6 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What are some of these Vaccine fundamentalists afraid of exactly?

We're in the beginning of the end of Covid, it'll fade away to something flu like or fairly mild I reckon. Double jabbed should be ample protection.

It seems increasingly that boosters will be required. With sufficient coverage, around 85% with the Delta variant, and any subsequent boosters, we should reach a reasonable level of immunity. The unknown is as usual whether further variants will evolve that vaccines are not effective against. With a high level of vaccination this is less likely.

Flu kills thousands a year in this country though so is not a trivial thing. 

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1 hour ago, big p said:

 

Good on you, but I will always try and stand by people who refuse to comply. Its their choice and for what ever reason they don't comply quite frankly its no ones business... But the blackmail and coercion is disgusting.

Weird. You support people who refuse to comply just for the sake of it, even if it doesn’t marry with what you support?

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Just now, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Weird. You support people who refuse to comply just for the sake of it, even if it doesn’t marry with what you.

I support the freedom of choice. Not to be forced into something they don't want. 

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7 minutes ago, lenred said:

So you’re classing the vast majority of people in this country who are protecting themselves, their friends and families, the NHS etc as obsessives and fundamentalists? Ok then…

Big variation by age group- saw the Sunday Times and it showed, and intriguingly though still huge, over 80's had a lower % of uptake than the 3 below them. Still 93% (think the one below qas 97% and the two below were 95%), whereas I think under 30's was about 65%. Actually surprised that 7% of over 80's aren't all-in!

Intriguingly, regional differences too- 99% of under 30's in Richmondshire (North Yorkshire) whereas only about 44% in Birmingham!

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but it also perhaps presupposes that those who don't take Vaccinations are not still highly responsible in other ways. Such as compliance with all but the idea of Vaccination Passports. I just don't see the need for them tbh.

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13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What are some of these Vaccine obsessives afraid of exactly?

We're at the beginning of the end of Covid as a serious problem IMO, it'll fade away to something flu like or fairly moderate I reckon. Double jabbed should be ample protection.

You might be right.

But you could also be horribly wrong.

As we've seen with the Delta variant, when left to run amongst the population, this virus will mutate.

If we allow it to continue infecting people (even if they are not getting really sick), then we increase the chances of a mutation that is vaccine resistant and/or is serious for young healthy people.

We've all had a year and a half of hell. I find it unbelievable that there are people who would want to prolong this or who would risk lives just because "in their opinion" we are at the end.

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8 minutes ago, big p said:

Do you really understand? Please research 2010 Avian Flu H1N1 vaccine Pandemrix. This had class act lawsuits against Glaxo Smith Kline which apparently caused Narcolepsy... So you can really understand why some people are sceptical about new vaccines.

The Pandremix problem - a very small number of serious side effects in 12-16-year-olds - were observable within weeks. They didn't suddenly come to light years after vaccination.

The mechanism of how a sudden rise in immune response could trigger narcolepsy in a very tiny number of adolescents is now understood. Although Pandemrix was within product safety limits, it had gone through Phase III trials involving 6,000 volunteers, it was withdrawn for use in this age range as other vaccines that protected against H1N1 were available and these were used instead on this cohort.

In total, around 17 cases of narcolepsy were linked to this particular vaccine out of 30 million doses administered. Most countries using the vaccine did not record any raised incidence rates of narcolepsy following their Avian Flu immunisation campaigns.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30122647/

In the case of the various Covid vaccines, Phase III trials were conducted on several hundred thousand people 15 months ago and they've gone on to be administered to 2,000% more people than received the Avian Flu vaccines. Serious side effects reporting has been negligible given the vast number of doses administered. In every Covid vaccine approved for use in this country, SSE are well within normal medicinal guidelines. Because there is a multiplicity of choice available, as with the H1N1 jab, we were even able to switch AZ away from certain age groups from an overabundance of caution. Taking AZ if you're under 30 is still safer than getting on an aeroplane. However other Covid vaccines were even safer, so we are using them. 

So, to answer your patronising question: Yes, I do understand how vaccines work and yes, I already know about Pandemrix.

However, it appears you still do not understand how vaccines work or understand statistical risk.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Big variation by age group- saw the Sunday Times and it showed, and intriguingly though still huge, over 80's had a lower % of uptake than the 3 below them. Still 93% (think the one below qas 97% and the two below were 95%), whereas I think under 30's was about 65%. Actually surprised that 7% of over 80's aren't all-in!

Intriguingly, regional differences too- 99% of under 30's in Richmondshire (North Yorkshire) whereas only about 44% in Birmingham!

Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but it also perhaps presupposes that those who don't take Vaccinations are not still highly responsible in other ways. Such as compliance with all but the idea of Vaccination Passports. I just don't see the need for them tbh.

You have answered my point but no matter - used to that in this conversation.  
 

My old school mate was intubated and in a coma for nearly 8 weeks with very little hope of survival. He survived thank god but will feel the affects no doubt forever.  He was 42 at the time. That’s all the ‘evidence’ I need to know on age ranges.
 

You don’t want the vaccine then you crack on but to call people fundamentalists or even obsessives is pathetic tbh. It’s amazing what these conversations uncover. 

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5 minutes ago, lenred said:

You have answered my point but no matter - used to that in this conversation.  
 

My old school mate was intubated and in a coma for nearly 8 weeks with very little hope of survival. He survived thank god but will feel the affects no doubt forever.  He was 42 at the time. That’s all the ‘evidence’ I need to know on age ranges.
 

You don’t want the vaccine then you crack on but to call people fundamentalists or even obsessives is pathetic tbh. It’s amazing what these conversations uncover. 

The obsessives or whatever are those who wish to impose Vaccine Passports which as an aside I assume you are pro. Clearly those who choose to take a Vaccine aren't obsessive.

While I am sorry for your situation, it feels like you are extrapolating a bit, cherry picking. Which question did I miss anyway.

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33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

What are some of these Vaccine obsessives afraid of exactly?

We're at the beginning of the end of Covid as a serious problem IMO, it'll fade away to something flu like or fairly moderate I reckon. Double jabbed should be ample protection.

How many under 50 have died of it in the UK? About 500 tops, and that's a guess by me- likely less.

Not that I would so much as even be open to condoning it but I wonder if we will see Wembley like scenes ie for the final at Nightclubs and specifically Sports Venues around the country if it comes in.

 

You're miles out in your estimation. It's 2-2,500 under-50s in England, even using the government's shit "28-days" method of calculation, which will understate deaths in the younger cohort;   https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=nation&areaName=England

And even if most deaths are in over 50s, so what? Are we all on the metaphorical scrap  heap after then?? 

Your rather blasé attitude also ignores Long Covid which can strike any age range and fitness level.  Ask Steve Cotterell if he recommends getting that?  

It has been estimated to have affected 2 million Britons and it represents a massive challenge going forward to the NHS.

No, a discussion can legitimately be held over whether Vaccine Passporting is worthwhile in football stadiums - or what alternative measures might be used - but belittling the impact and the continuing danger of the virus is not the way to do it.

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9 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

However, it appears you still do not understand how vaccines work or understand statistical risk.

This is such an important point not just re vaccines but more widely. There is a serious lack of knowledge among politicians, journalists and the wider population about risk and uncertainty.

Anybody who wants to educate themselves can watch videos by Sir David Spiegelhalter on YouTube. Very good communicator, both interesting and entertaining.

Of course there is the alternative of drawing conclusions based on no knowledge. Which an awful lot of people seem to prefer.

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The obsessives or whatever are those who wish to impose Vaccine Passports which as an aside I assume you are pro. Clearly those who choose to take a Vaccine aren't obsessive.

While I am sorry for your situation, it feels like you are extrapolating a bit, cherry picking. Which question did I miss anyway.

That you deemed it ok to clarify normal behaviour as fundamentalist and obsessive - just wondering how you justify it but hey ho. 
 

Not my situation it’s an old school friend, but it brought the realities of covid to life in a very stark way as opposed to relying on ‘stats’. 

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Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Considering no Gene Therapy vaccine has ever made it past Stage 3 Clinical trials in the history of vaccines (because, quite frankly, they were killing too many people to continue with the trials (not as many as this Coronavirus MRNA Vaccine has killed already, nonetheless ) so it will be decidedly of interest how they’ve managed to conjure a vaccine in such a short space of time that will not illicit the same outcomes as every other MRNA Vaccine that has existed.

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4 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

You're miles out in your estimation. It's 2-2,500 under-50s in England, even using the government's shit "28-days" method of calculation, which will understate deaths in the younger cohort;   https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/deaths?areaType=nation&areaName=England

And even if most deaths are in over 50s, so what? Are we all on the metaphorical scrap  heap after then?? 

Your rather blasé attitude also ignores Long Covid which can strike any age range and fitness level.  Ask Steve Cotterell if he recommends getting that?  

It has been estimated to have affected 2 million Britons and it represents a massive challenge going forward to the NHS.

No, a discussion can legitimately be held over whether Vaccine Passporting is worthwhile in football stadiums - or what alternative measures might be used - but belittling the impact and the continuing danger of the virus is not the way to do it.

Of couese not on the scrapheap, saw a figure that said it was lower but that maybe out of date.

A constructive response this though, for sure a debate to be had. Personally speaking, again extrapolation yes I know, Covid has hit me more significantly economically than health wise but clearly there has been a serious Pandemic. Saw an interesting bit in Sunday Times that compared Covid to the 1890 Russian Flu as opposed to the 1918 one, based on the figures listed something between the two.

Maybe it was the Co-morbidities linked deaths I was thinking of. Will research in some depth later, I still take significant precautions and act responsibly, I just doubt the need for Vaccination Passports. Falling cases is great news too.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Of couese not on the scrapheap, saw a figure that said it was lower but that maybe out of date.

A constructive response this though, for sure a debate to be had. Personally speaking, again extrapolation yes I know, Covid has hit me more significantly economically than health wise but clearly there has been a serious Pandemic. Saw an interesting bit in Sunday Times that compared Covid to the 1890 Russian Flu as opposed to the 1918 one, based on the figures listed something between the two.

Maybe it was the Co-morbidities linked deaths I was thinking of. Will research in some depth later, I still take significant precautions and act responsibly, I just doubt the need for Vaccination Passports. Falling cases is great news too.

 

A fair response. 

Personally, I'm undecided on Vaccine Passporting in stadiums. I think compulsory masks in concourses and when queueing for turnstyles is reasonable. I just don't know whether for a City type crowd, passporting is a lot of mither for little gain. There may be other wise precautions. Staggered entry and leaving times perhaps.

Whatever they choose, I can't see restrictions lasting too long if things continue as they are going.

Different story in nightclubs where you're packed in an indoors venue breathing heavily and having to shout to make yourself heard.  Shouting in stadiums tends to be to the air, to express your displeasure!

 

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2 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

A fair response. 

Personally, I'm undecided on Vaccine Passporting in stadiums. I think compulsory masks in concourses and when queueing for turnstyles is reasonable. I just don't know whether for a City type crowd, passporting is a lot of mither for little gain. There may be other wise precautions. Staggered entry and leaving times perhaps.

Whatever they choose, I can't see restrictions lasting too long if things continue as they are going.

Different story in nightclubs where you're packed in an indoors venue breathing heavily and having to shout to make yourself heard.  Shouting in stadiums tends to be to the air, to express your displeasure!

 

I think the issue with compulsory masks in the concourse is who is going to police it and enforce it.

If you were a minimum wage steward, would you really want to go out of your way to challenge someone?

Also, a lot of people eat and drink in the concourses so they'd not be wearing one.

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3 hours ago, big p said:

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't know my purpose in life was to appease people I don't know hiding behind an avatar on a forum I rarely contribute. OK I'll change my stance and get a season ticket and produce a covid passport... OK !

Well the point was more about backing up random statements with some evidence so it can be discussed, you know, the point of a forum?

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OK I have a solution to all this dilemma.  Let all vaccinated fans sit in the three home sides of the stadium and the unvaccinated can sit with the away fans in the away end.  All can enjoy the match and if anyone is going to catch Covid, it will only be away fans.  We could even invite the Gas to play a friendly!  Simples!!

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58 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

I think the issue with compulsory masks in the concourse is who is going to police it and enforce it.

If you were a minimum wage steward, would you really want to go out of your way to challenge someone?

Also, a lot of people eat and drink in the concourses so they'd not be wearing one.

 

True. Maybe just encourage the wearing of them, as supermarkets now do.

I'll be wearing one until I get to my seat.

Being double-jabbed though, I think I'd put my life in more danger if I had one of their pasties.

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1 hour ago, Selred said:

How many under 50s have long Covid?

Also the answer for COVID deaths for under 50's is 6,204.

Source: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

Yea but he probably meant “healthy” people because we know those with health issues or disabilities don’t matter

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The obsessives or whatever are those who wish to impose Vaccine Passports which as an aside I assume you are pro. Clearly those who choose to take a Vaccine aren't obsessive.

While I am sorry for your situation, it feels like you are extrapolating a bit, cherry picking. Which question did I miss anyway.

FWIW I don’t wish to impose vaccine passports, my position is that I understand why some venues might want to and personally have no problem flashing a QR code or taking a test to gain entry to somewhere for the next couple of months. It’s nothing compared to another lockdown if we get this horribly wrong 

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1 hour ago, The Hustler said:

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Considering no Gene Therapy vaccine has ever made it past Stage 3 Clinical trials in the history of vaccines (because, quite frankly, they were killing too many people to continue with the trials (not as many as this Coronavirus MRNA Vaccine has killed already, nonetheless ) so it will be decidedly of interest how they’ve managed to conjure a vaccine in such a short space of time that will not illicit the same outcomes as every other MRNA Vaccine that has existed.

Here’s another. How many have died from this “gene therapy” out of interest?

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1 hour ago, The Hustler said:

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. Considering no Gene Therapy vaccine has ever made it past Stage 3 Clinical trials in the history of vaccines (because, quite frankly, they were killing too many people to continue with the trials (not as many as this Coronavirus MRNA Vaccine has killed already, nonetheless ) so it will be decidedly of interest how they’ve managed to conjure a vaccine in such a short space of time that will not illicit the same outcomes as every other MRNA Vaccine that has existed.

 

Tin Foil Hat Gifts & Merchandise | Redbubble

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Not that important in the grand scheme probably, could just be a reflection of motivated voters on one side or the other of course but- saw it on Twitter.

E7Fs5LRWUAIElv4?format=jpg&name=small

Quote

The Noes have it...the Noes have it.

That said- his LinkedIn poll showed a different picture apparently.

E6_QgX3WUAQ9zjv?format=jpg&name=medium

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6 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

A fair response. 

Personally, I'm undecided on Vaccine Passporting in stadiums. I think compulsory masks in concourses and when queueing for turnstyles is reasonable. I just don't know whether for a City type crowd, passporting is a lot of mither for little gain. There may be other wise precautions. Staggered entry and leaving times perhaps.

Whatever they choose, I can't see restrictions lasting too long if things continue as they are going.

Different story in nightclubs where you're packed in an indoors venue breathing heavily and having to shout to make yourself heard.  Shouting in stadiums tends to be to the air, to express your displeasure!

 

Can't argue with that, staggered entry and leaving times maybe worth a look still- of course bits about transport to and from games are an argument in favour, masks and proper ventilation on e.g. buses would help with this.

Like to think so, but...it could suit some in the Government to have enhanced monitoring for longer let's say.

Yeah, sports venues and nightclubs can differ, but suppose the flipside of that is nightclubs mostly have a much younger average age attending- which can significantly reduce the risk of getting it seriously.

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The irony of course, is that people who preach at me about Vaccines etc- @lenred a good example- this is my personal stance but who knows if it's a thing, makes me less inclined to take the responsible steps I do take short of vaccine- not unlawful ones of course but much less inclined to be as voluntarily diligent as I am now...

Good example. If someone chooses to stop doing Lateral Flow Tests if they can, then the chances of being obliged to self isolate fall notably. Only if the person has symptoms or is contacted by Test and Trace will that kick in.

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