Salary cap

[barneyrubble]

Surely with the global fallout from this awful disease there will now be an acceptance that allowing unsustainable salaries will no longer be allowed.

How much better would it be if all teams were on a level playing field whenever a new season is started.

Forget about diluting the quality let's have a fair league not dictated by the richest clubs.

[Taz]

Whilst in theory it's a nice idea, but it would need to be rolled out across the world, otherwise if Liverpool are capped at say 100k per player per week, and Barcelona are capped at 250k pppw, then Spanish football here we come. 

On the same basis, how would you be able to cap the salaries in the Prem? How can you cap Norwich at the bottom, the same as Liverpool at the top? Norwich couldn't afford the same as Liverpool, and why should Liverpool be forced to comply with Norwich, who may only be able to cap at £40k pppw (for arguments sake).

If you go on the basis that it HAS to fit in with percentages of expenditure, then we're in no different position than where we are now. This is why teams like Chelsea have been stockpiling players over the years - and it would just continue, maybe even get worse. Why sign for Norwich at 40k, when you can sit in the reserves at Liverpool for 100k?

I agree, wages are astronomical, and a wage cap would even the playing field, but I honestly can't see it ever happening.

Just look at how corrupt Fifa is.

[Robin101]

3 hours ago, Taz said:

Whilst in theory it's a nice idea, but it would need to be rolled out across the world, otherwise if Liverpool are capped at say 100k per player per week, and Barcelona are capped at 250k pppw, then Spanish football here we come. 

On the same basis, how would you be able to cap the salaries in the Prem? How can you cap Norwich at the bottom, the same as Liverpool at the top? Norwich couldn't afford the same as Liverpool, and why should Liverpool be forced to comply with Norwich, who may only be able to cap at £40k pppw (for arguments sake).

If you go on the basis that it HAS to fit in with percentages of expenditure, then we're in no different position than where we are now. This is why teams like Chelsea have been stockpiling players over the years - and it would just continue, maybe even get worse. Why sign for Norwich at 40k, when you can sit in the reserves at Liverpool for 100k?

I agree, wages are astronomical, and a wage cap would even the playing field, but I honestly can't see it ever happening.

Just look at how corrupt Fifa is.

Not sure I follow. A cap is the maximum amount, not the amount you must spend. If we made the cap, say, 80k then Liverpool can pay 80k and Norwich can continue to pay 40k.

I agree that it needs to be international though. 

[Taz]

25 minutes ago, Robin101 said:

Not sure I follow. A cap is the maximum amount, not the amount you must spend. If we made the cap, say, 80k then Liverpool can pay 80k and Norwich can continue to pay 40k.

I agree that it needs to be international though. 

Yeah fair point, I probably didn't explain myself clearly. You're right in what you're saying there, but that's not really evening the playing field that much. Whilst in that example it brings everyone closer together financially, there will still be a significant gap.

I'm just not sure that these players on hundreds of thousands per week will be motivated to play anymore. Wrong, but money rules the game and I can't see it changing dramatically, if at all.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Chelsea stockpiling (doubtless not the only club btw) sure FIFA introduced some regulations about this that are due to come in or were due to come in over the coming years.

The big bucks aren't everything. Sheffield United have shown this in spades. Tottenham for years have done better than expected on a top 6 budget.

Overseas, you might say that Napoli in terms of top 6 budget overachieving a bit like Italian version of Tottenham, especially early on. Atalanta midtable Serie A budget, waay over where wages or 'names' in the side dictates they should be. More periodically, Leicester yet that was the biggest shock of modern times, and for a few years, Southampton.

At this level, Brentford are a notable example, Preston too- in some ways us arguably. Plus of course Sheffield United again- the latter a bit less clear as it is unclear to what extent promotion bonuses which otherwise wouldn't have arisen increased their wage bill.

Salary cap would level things quite nicely though. Would place a real emphasis on youth, coaching, scouting, ability to find bargains in the market.

Or take otherwise damaged players or former gems that have got a bit dusty and repolish them. Redknapp at Portsmouth especially and Big Sam at Bolton were quite good at this.

[Tinmans Love Child]

If Hypothetically the Fa brought in a salary cap of say £20,000pw across all divisions, and that meant all the best players went off to play in Spain or Italy or whatever, who apart from the Premier League money makers would really care?  Still making decent cash, clubs arnt getting held to ransom.

Firstly not all the players can go and play in other places as there arnt enough teams, so inevitably some would stay and accept lower wages as that’s what’s on offer.

Secondly I will support my club through thick or thin, and my support certainly isn’t based on the quality of players on show or the football (or id never go!!).

I would rather we never bought new players and only brought through academy players who are from the surrounding area, and create a real sense of identity and a team which everyone can get behind because they really are one’s of our own.

And the argument of, well who should get all the money, falls flat cause there won’t be loads of Tv money for any players to get!

I can dream!  

[Lrrr]

48 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

And the argument of, well who should get all the money, falls flat cause there won’t be loads of Tv money for any players to get!

I mean there would still be a lot of tv money, PL are still going to make a fortune off tv rights

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

I admire the sentiment but it's not going to happen because the big clubs won't agree to it. That's where the power is, not in the national FAs, UEFA or FIFA. without the ability to attract and pay the best players they won't attract the sponsorship. If the players left elsewhere, the Chinese Super League for example, TV revenues would follow. European, and to a lesser extent domestic competition, is designed to keep the rich clubs rich and the poorer ones in their place. While there are always exceptions, very few sides outside of a national leagues top 10 richest clubs have won their respective leagues since the 2nd World War and very few sides outside Europe's 30 richest have won a European competition in the same period. 

[Bas's perfect hattrick]

3 hours ago, hodge said:

I mean there would still be a lot of tv money, PL are still going to make a fortune off tv rights

Perhaps they could used the money saved to make ticket prices more affordable 

[S25loyal]

Why do people care if the best players go abroad? Absolutely nothing to do with us, let them go. 

[TRL]

There should be no salary cap. You cannot dictate how much someone at the top of the game should earn.

There should be a maximum salary budget, not dictated by revenue, but by a predetermined amount.

All sponsorship should be concluded between player and sponsor with no involvement with the club concerning it being a part of any wage deal.

This way a team cannot monopolise all the top players or players that perceive a team to be big will need to lower their wage expectations to accommodate lots of top players in said team.

This should be world wide and salary budget set accordingly for each division. The salary budget should be the same for every country, with the onus on the club deciding how much of that budget they want to spend.

This needs to be monitored relentlessly. If players want big big bucks they they need to be at the top of their game topping up their wagea from their own sponsorship deals. Clubs should not be able have rights of players image rights.. that is for players only as not to fudge the financial books. Clubs can make money from club sponsorship and all that entails such as stadium and trading ground naming right. Clubs can use other revenue streams such as hotels built and the like.

This as I see it forces clubs to live within financial means. It will start to level the playing field and will start to focus on decent training tactics and players wanting to perform rather than buying success.

League structure in each country should be under one body. TV rights are paid to that body, not clubs. That money is given in equal value to each club in each division based on the tv rights for that division. The body in charge will hold a percentage of tv rights money.. say 20 or 30% this will goto grass roots football and be added equally to winners money for each division and each cup competition to give it equal value instead the killing of domestic cup competitions that we are currently seeing.

Will it happen, will it **** money men have their hooks in. I can dream

 

[Lrrr]

4 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

I admire the sentiment but it's not going to happen because the big clubs won't agree to it.

European Super League anyone?  Big teams all sod off to their own league where they can pay players what they want. Then teams left in each national league play under wage cap rules, perhaps with an MLS style rule where 1 or 2 players can exceed that cap to keep some of the best players around.

[Mr Popodopolous]

51 minutes ago, hodge said:

European Super League anyone?  Big teams all sod off to their own league where they can pay players what they want. Then teams left in each national league play under wage cap rules, perhaps with an MLS style rule where 1 or 2 players can exceed that cap to keep some of the best players around.

Could contravene EU law, in theory- though I struggle to see how.

This tweet is from a year and a half ago but it's the only real reference point I could find.

[Lrrr]

9 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Could contravene EU law, in theory- though I struggle to see how.

This tweet is from a year and a half ago but it's the only real reference point I could find.

Quoting the article:

“Uefa may be able to show that a restriction is proportionate and justified by arguing that the new league would be a detriment to their member clubs as well as to event organisers - such as domestic leagues - due to a clash of fixture scheduling, which may thus reduce audience and viewership numbers in turn reducing the value of broadcasting and sponsorship rights.”

So if the domestic leagues didn't object because the want a salary cap in place to protect their clubs and an agreement was made about games in respective leagues having certain time slots UEFA could find it hard to mount a defence 

In May, Uefa and the EU signed a new Memorandum of Understanding. The agreement stated that the Council of Europe and Uefa recognise that the European sports model “is based on sporting and financial solidarity mechanisms” citing “the principle of promotion and relegation” and “open competitions with a balance between clubs and national teams” which suggests that the EU would oppose the proposed relegation exemption

To get around this part you could have a play off system between each nations champion to determine however many teams are required to be promoted. Make it a 2 tiered system, each country from UEFA has at least 1 team present in the 2 tier system promotion and relegation between tier 1/2 and then the play off system between individual nations and tier 2

[Mr Popodopolous]

5 minutes ago, hodge said:

Quoting the article:

“Uefa may be able to show that a restriction is proportionate and justified by arguing that the new league would be a detriment to their member clubs as well as to event organisers - such as domestic leagues - due to a clash of fixture scheduling, which may thus reduce audience and viewership numbers in turn reducing the value of broadcasting and sponsorship rights.”

So if the domestic leagues didn't object because the want a salary cap in place to protect their clubs and an agreement was made about games in respective leagues having certain time slots UEFA could find it hard to mount a defence 

In May, Uefa and the EU signed a new Memorandum of Understanding. The agreement stated that the Council of Europe and Uefa recognise that the European sports model “is based on sporting and financial solidarity mechanisms” citing “the principle of promotion and relegation” and “open competitions with a balance between clubs and national teams” which suggests that the EU would oppose the proposed relegation exemption

To get around this part you could have a play off system between each nations champion to determine however many teams are required to be promoted. Make it a 2 tiered system, each country from UEFA has at least 1 team present in the 2 tier system promotion and relegation between tier 1/2 and then the play off system between individual nations and tier 2

Basically no closed shop Leagues then? I'm sure they can work around that then.

Playoffs as you say could do it somewhat- could be a lengthy legal battle though, read elsewhere that in the Bundesliga (unsure about other Leagues) their contracts are signed with the club and the League- to cut a long story short on that, if a club quits the League, the player becomes a free agent. Lawyers on all sides could get a lot of work with this IMO.

[The Bard]

We've already seen in Rugby Union how clubs will work their way around the Salary Cap. Football is a different beast though.

In Rugby Bristol are one of a handful of decent sized clubs which has meant that a smaller concern (ie Saracens) has managed to work it's way to the top by investing in developing players and through financial doping.   

Football is a different kettle of fish.  If Leicester are in the top 4 then maybe 30 clubs can lay claim to be able to compete with them in terms of support, finance, history.  That in itself is the intrinsic strength of English football. There is literally a divsion and a half of decent sized clubs.  The only comparasion is Germany. 

At the moment, most EPL clubs are now owned by international concerns adept at sidestepping international and national financial rules so there is little prospect of rules actually being effective except for smaller clubs who, if they are well run, will keep to them and thus sustain themselves (bit like Burnley have done).

 

[Lrrr]

8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

read elsewhere that in the Bundesliga (unsure about other Leagues) their contracts are signed with the club and the League- to cut a long story short on that, if a club quits the League, the player becomes a free agent.

So the player gets another signing on bonus when the re-sign, goody for them. It will only happen if the leagues/smaller clubs want it badly as well so they can get their houses in order

[Redwhitepurple]

Why does everyone do that. Why do people bring in other countries when talking about capping salaries. Who gives a damn if spain is paying players £300k a week if players wanna go, go. British football will still be fantastic football tens of thousands of players will still wanna play in england and there simply wouldn't be a problem.

[Mr Popodopolous]

35 minutes ago, Redwhitepurple said:

Why does everyone do that. Why do people bring in other countries when talking about capping salaries. Who gives a damn if spain is paying players £300k a week if players wanna go, go. British football will still be fantastic football tens of thousands of players will still wanna play in england and there simply wouldn't be a problem.

Competitiveness in the CL may take a hit, it's probably got pros and cons but no guarantee that we would dominate European football unlike say mid 70's-mid 80's or recent times parts of the 2000's. if quite a lot went abroad.

Still be good domestically in a lot of ways but may take a hit on a global level.

Will the League be a global powerhouse? Diminished in this respect, I'd assume. Course that may not even be a bad thing, but it's something that could well happen with a salary cap.

[Lrrr]

52 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Competitiveness in the CL may take a hit, it's probably got pros and cons but no guarantee that we would dominate European football unlike say mid 70's-mid 80's or recent times parts of the 2000's. if quite a lot went abroad.

Still be good domestically in a lot of ways but may take a hit on a global level.

Will the League be a global powerhouse? Diminished in this respect, I'd assume. Course that may not even be a bad thing, but it's something that could well happen with a salary cap.

Its why I do like the idea of 1 or 2 star players like MLS where they can be paid more (but still capped at say double value)  keeps some star players around and interesting to see where teams would use them.

[Slacker]

[Pezo]

20 hours ago, Barney red said:

Surely with the global fallout from this awful disease there will now be an acceptance that allowing unsustainable salaries will no longer be allowed.

How much better would it be if all teams were on a level playing field whenever a new season is started.

Forget about diluting the quality let's have a fair league not dictated by the richest clubs.

It's an interesting question have you considered the consequences? Eg lower tax income for the government to pay for things like hospitals and nurses. 

[Pezo]

Is the right thing to do limit how much someone can be paid or enable a lower club to make more money so they can compete? Or should the lower clubs look at what they are offering and try to do something different to get additional people in additional TV revenue ect?

IMO a race to the bottom will do more harm than good. What if we say all players get paid the same - the best players are still going to want to play for the clubs that already win everything.

Equality of opportunity not outcome please. 

[Tinmans Love Child]

8 hours ago, TRL said:

There should be no salary cap. You cannot dictate how much someone at the top of the game should earn.

There should be a maximum salary budget, not dictated by revenue, but by a predetermined amount.

All sponsorship should be concluded between player and sponsor with no involvement with the club concerning it being a part of any wage deal.

This way a team cannot monopolise all the top players or players that perceive a team to be big will need to lower their wage expectations to accommodate lots of top players in said team.

This should be world wide and salary budget set accordingly for each division. The salary budget should be the same for every country, with the onus on the club deciding how much of that budget they want to spend.

This needs to be monitored relentlessly. If players want big big bucks they they need to be at the top of their game topping up their wagea from their own sponsorship deals. Clubs should not be able have rights of players image rights.. that is for players only as not to fudge the financial books. Clubs can make money from club sponsorship and all that entails such as stadium and trading ground naming right. Clubs can use other revenue streams such as hotels built and the like.

This as I see it forces clubs to live within financial means. It will start to level the playing field and will start to focus on decent training tactics and players wanting to perform rather than buying success.

League structure in each country should be under one body. TV rights are paid to that body, not clubs. That money is given in equal value to each club in each division based on the tv rights for that division. The body in charge will hold a percentage of tv rights money.. say 20 or 30% this will goto grass roots football and be added equally to winners money for each division and each cup competition to give it equal value instead the killing of domestic cup competitions that we are currently seeing.

Will it happen, will it **** money men have their hooks in. I can dream

 

I like the idea of an overall cap on what a club can spend on player wages, rather than on an individual basis, so if you choose to blow your budget on one player getting say £200k a week, and that means the rest of the squad ‘only’ gets £10k per week, then that’s up to you.
 

The overall cap can be a % of income which means as a minimum the club should at least break even, this is to ensure the stability of the club.  This still means the bigger clubs have more cash (which they always have had anyway) but it would mean that the best players get shared around as they can’t all get the big wages in one place, which levels the playing field.  Don’t they do a similar thing in rugby where there is a cap but you can have one or two players who can earn way more?

[054123]

21 hours ago, Taz said:

Whilst in theory it's a nice idea, but it would need to be rolled out across the world, otherwise if Liverpool are capped at say 100k per player per week, and Barcelona are capped at 250k pppw, then Spanish football here we come. 

Why’s that then?

Do you only support a team based on how much they pay players then?

[Taz]

1 hour ago, 054123 said:

Why’s that then?

Do you only support a team based on how much they pay players then?

Whilst trying to be clever you've made yourself look a bit silly. Funnily enough I support the same club as you 

From a players perspective, unless you have a universal salary cap which covers all leagues at the same level in each country (for example the Prem in England, La Liga in Spain etc) then the better players will just bugger off to wherever is paying the most money. A bit like all these "world beaters" that go on to play for megabucks in China.

 

[054123]

3 hours ago, Taz said:

Whilst trying to be clever you've made yourself look a bit silly. Funnily enough I support the same club as you 

From a players perspective, unless you have a universal salary cap which covers all leagues at the same level in each country (for example the Prem in England, La Liga in Spain etc) then the better players will just bugger off to wherever is paying the most money. A bit like all these "world beaters" that go on to play for megabucks in China.

 

 

3 hours ago, Taz said:

Whilst trying to be clever you've made yourself look a bit silly. Funnily enough I support the same club as you 

From a players perspective, unless you have a universal salary cap which covers all leagues at the same level in each country (for example the Prem in England, La Liga in Spain etc) then the better players will just bugger off to wherever is paying the most money. A bit like all these "world beaters" that go on to play for megabucks in China.

 

Again does that matter?

All that matter is the league you play in. As you rightly point out, you support Bristol City. Do you enjoying supporting them any less simply because Neymar plays for PSG?

[Taz]

6 minutes ago, 054123 said:

 

Again does that matter?

All that matter is the league you play in. As you rightly point out, you support Bristol City. Do you enjoying supporting them any less simply because Neymar plays for PSG?

I couldn't give a monkies about any other club tbf, so not really sure what angle you're trying to get at.

The point (again) is unless you cap at the same points at the equivalent leagues around the world, then the quality of football at all top flight levels will become lopsided.

[054123]

4 minutes ago, Taz said:

I couldn't give a monkies about any other club tbf, so not really sure what angle you're trying to get at.

The point (again) is unless you cap at the same points at the equivalent leagues around the world, then the quality of football at all top flight levels will become lopsided.

Again does that matter?

Maybe we’re talking at cross purposes, but I really couldn’t care if Barcelona could pay Mo Salah triple what Liverpool could what does it matter? All that matters is the league you compete in.

We had this before with a salary cap and Italian clubs paying vast amounts more, it didn’t detract from the spectacle of supporting football. Attendances didn’t drop.

[CHIPLEY RED]

In theory FFP is an attempt at salary cap because it limits a clubs expenditure based on the clubs income but we all know there are ways around it and unlike rugby the authorities will not act against the big clubs.