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Alex Neil is Simply Wrong


havanatopia

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Correct me if I’m wrong, but by wages being deferred, doesn’t this mean the players will get their wages, but a later date? I would agree with him in a way if the players were taking a pay cut, then the club went on to sign someone. But the fact of the matter is ( if I understand’ deferred correctly), the players will still get their wages at a later date. I would also argue his point about club’s running their finances correctly, as unless you have Nostradamus on your board, I don’t think anyone would of planned for a worldwide pandemic on their spreadsheets at the start of the season! City I would also add are try to improve their financial situation to become more sustainable. COYR 

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As I understand it players have taken a deferral which means it is only a temporary cash flow benefit to the club. So, nothing to see here.

If it is a wage cut then no club should be punished for attempting to stay afloat.

The argument by Neill is utterly stupid and baseless let alone disingenuous.

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If you don’t pay your employees’ wages (albeit temporarily) because you claim you’ve got cash flow issue, but then splash the cash buying new players, I can understand the concern.

However, in this case, I understand that the wage deferrals have been agreed by the players, so I don’t think any external sanctions are required - unless the club have misled the players in any way...

To be honest, I would be more upset if clubs were furloughing staff, claiming Govt subsidies and not topping up their employees wages, whilst still finding the funds for new signings. 

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I read that yesterday and thought he had a point. Then I realised that there’s no guarantee any savings would go to player recruitment. While PNE don’t pay large fees akin to ours, that’s not really our problem, more getting PNE to release the purse strings.

Ive no doubt we’ll pass FFP again so what’s the issue? It’s a deferral not a cancellation.

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Whilst not trying to belittle anyones job at the club we have to remember that the difference between Playing staff and Non Playing staff is that Playing staff are a saleable club asset. We can sell a player for £20m to another club but can't do the same with Mavis in the club canteen when Nailsea School make a bid for her services. Also we cannot just make players redundant due to their contracts unless it is terminated for maybe disciplinary reasons. SL is doing what is needed to make BCFC survive this pandemic. Personally I take my hat off to him. With regards transfers I doubt too many clubs are really looking at that issue just now while they struggle to survive.

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Personal opinion, any club wanting to make a transfer should just have to be paying their players/staff 100% at the time of transfer. You shouldn't be able to loan any player/sign a free agent if 100% of wages not being paid as if theres no loan fee/massive signing on fee the saved wages could in effect then allow a player to be signed using that money. I have no problems with deferred wages being paid back (however long the club wants to take) if they're back on full wage at the time of the signing as they're at their normal wage budget per week/month being paid out.

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12 hours ago, mozo said:

Surely wage deferral is setting clubs up for a difficult time in the future? It's essentially a debt to the players, no? And it will have to come out of a future budget.

But the deferrals are to a time when football starts again, and the clubs will then have the gate monies and matchday income again to sustain the debt. 

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He is absolutely spot on. If you can’t pay a part-time wage for perhaps months - if only just for a bit of solidarity - don’t dare spend millions. @BigTone was Gary O Neill £20k pw a capital investment? Not all players are. Is Ashley Williams an asset? It’s really not that straightforward. If club shop staff are furloughed then any player old or 6m left on deal - maybe even a year - furlough them also  

Remember tax payers are paying for furlough, for many years to come. If a club subsequently spends millions having relied on the state - us - it’s up to you but I really really want my haypenny back. And that isn’t a joke. 

More generally I do wonder how football will survive this - I don’t think it will as it was personally. 

People are now accustomed to life without it. I dont know about you but I’m definitely seeing people are happier; friendlier; nicer. People say hello when you pass in a street; people say please and thank you. 

I have zero hunger for the vulgarity that football has become returning anytime soon. PL clubs furloughing was so damaging  

I didn’t renew my ST before purely for entertainment (lack of) but suspected deep down I’d crumble during the summer. That won’t happen now for sure.

I’m so excited for many things - but football is so low, it’ll take me a while to get to a point that I want to fill my Saturday with football because there is so much more I’d rather do.

To be excited to watch football just seems like such an unfulfilling life and prospect. 

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1 hour ago, 29AR said:

People are now accustomed to life without it. I dont know about you but I’m definitely seeing people are happier; friendlier; nicer. People say hello when you pass in a street; people say please and thank you. 

Many have been forced into a simpler life.....there are indeed benefits..

At a terrible cost.

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18 hours ago, havanatopia said:

It’s a bit like asking a company that’s made millions in profit over the last few years that’s has furloughed their staff not to buy stock when they are back 

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5 hours ago, 29AR said:

He is absolutely spot on. If you can’t pay a part-time wage for perhaps months - if only just for a bit of solidarity - don’t dare spend millions. @BigTone was Gary O Neill £20k pw a capital investment? Not all players are. Is Ashley Williams an asset? It’s really not that straightforward. If club shop staff are furloughed then any player old or 6m left on deal - maybe even a year - furlough them also  

Remember tax payers are paying for furlough, for many years to come. If a club subsequently spends millions having relied on the state - us - it’s up to you but I really really want my haypenny back. And that isn’t a joke. 

More generally I do wonder how football will survive this - I don’t think it will as it was personally. 

People are now accustomed to life without it. I dont know about you but I’m definitely seeing people are happier; friendlier; nicer. People say hello when you pass in a street; people say please and thank you. 

I have zero hunger for the vulgarity that football has become returning anytime soon. PL clubs furloughing was so damaging  

I didn’t renew my ST before purely for entertainment (lack of) but suspected deep down I’d crumble during the summer. That won’t happen now for sure.

I’m so excited for many things - but football is so low, it’ll take me a while to get to a point that I want to fill my Saturday with football because there is so much more I’d rather do.

To be excited to watch football just seems like such an unfulfilling life and prospect. 

Understand what you are saying. My main point is that there is a big difference in employment conditions between playing and non playing staff. Like you I think football is going to change after all this. Can't help but feeling that alot of smaller clubs will return to having part time players like in the old days. Can't see a lot of transfers happening either except for players out of contract. Interesting times ahead.

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6 hours ago, 29AR said:

He is absolutely spot on. If you can’t pay a part-time wage for perhaps months - if only just for a bit of solidarity - don’t dare spend millions. @BigTone was Gary O Neill £20k pw a capital investment? Not all players are. Is Ashley Williams an asset? It’s really not that straightforward. If club shop staff are furloughed then any player old or 6m left on deal - maybe even a year - furlough them also  

Remember tax payers are paying for furlough, for many years to come. If a club subsequently spends millions having relied on the state - us - it’s up to you but I really really want my haypenny back. And that isn’t a joke

I think many feel the same

More generally I do wonder how football will survive this - I don’t think it will as it was personally.

Nor me. I want the season finished, integrity and all that, but if we lose clubs before we restart then integrity has gone anyway.  The Bury / Bolton fiasco at the start of the season proved that,

People are now accustomed to life without it. I dont know about you but I’m definitely seeing people are happier; friendlier; nicer. People say hello when you pass in a street; people say please and thank you.

Personally I think the nice people are the same nice people before.  The selfish pricks haven’t changed, they are still there.

I have zero hunger for the vulgarity that football has become returning anytime soon. PL clubs furloughing was so damaging

Its a really tough one for me, I’m still torn between whether furlough (if morally wrong) is better than laying off!  It’s a complicated scenario  

I didn’t renew my ST before purely for entertainment (lack of) but suspected deep down I’d crumble during the summer. That won’t happen now for sure.

I’m so excited for many things - but football is so low, it’ll take me a while to get to a point that I want to fill my Saturday with football because there is so much more I’d rather do.

Makes you appreciate many other things doesn’t it.  I am missing football though.

To be excited to watch football just seems like such an unfulfilling life and prospect. 

 

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It feels a bit like using parachute payments to bolster a championship squad rather than pay wages for higher earners that have been sold anyway. It's wrong, but then so much in football is wrong and hopefully this whole episode will it help reset itself.

I agree, if you haven't got the cash to pay wages, how can you have the cash to buy players (without hiding behind separate budgets nonsense). However, if a club has cashflow problems, I think they should be free to sell to another that hasn't taken cashflow measures.

BigTone -Why is it always Mavis? We used to have a Gloria play for us you know.  

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Clubs have a massive unexpected drop in income and the only sensible thing to do is to reduce costs as much as possible to reduce the long term impact . As a football clubs main cost is players salaries and they aren’t playing, the players should be agreeing to a temporary pay cut. As it appears that players won’t do that clubs should be be taking measures to reduce costs in other ways. To suggest clubs who do that should be penalised is ridiculous. 

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22 hours ago, BigTone said:

Whilst not trying to belittle anyones job at the club we have to remember that the difference between Playing staff and Non Playing staff is that Playing staff are a saleable club asset. We can sell a player for £20m to another club but can't do the same with Mavis in the club canteen when Nailsea School make a bid for her services. Also we cannot just make players redundant due to their contracts unless it is terminated for maybe disciplinary reasons. SL is doing what is needed to make BCFC survive this pandemic. Personally I take my hat off to him. With regards transfers I doubt too many clubs are really looking at that issue just now while they struggle to survive.

Agreed. I think what this discussion highlights is that of course we don't want any team to take advantage of such a situation, that to me is the bleeding obvious and because it is we don't need a fellow manager demanding City and others are placed on a transfer ban. That is at best disingenuous but more likely exceedingly condescending and an attempt to ensnare the agenda in a very underhand way at a time when the world is upside down. The guy should retract his comments or a lot of managers and owners will give him the cold shoulder I reckon. It's simply uncalled for at this extraordinary time.

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3 hours ago, Kingswood Robin said:

It feels a bit like using parachute payments to bolster a championship squad rather than pay wages for higher earners that have been sold anyway. It's wrong, but then so much in football is wrong and hopefully this whole episode will it help reset itself.

I agree, if you haven't got the cash to pay wages, how can you have the cash to buy players (without hiding behind separate budgets nonsense). However, if a club has cashflow problems, I think they should be free to sell to another that hasn't taken cashflow measures.

BigTone -Why is it always Mavis? We used to have a Gloria play for us you know.  

Because Mavis is the corner stone at the club canteen and is first that comes to mind. Maybe I should have used Audrey as the example.

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