How to determine Championship promotion places

[sugarwray]

EFL post season proposal

In case League One and League Two are cancelled relegations and promotions in those divisions will be based on sporting merit. Relegation from the Championship can follow the same sporting merit determination.

With over 100 fixtures still to played in the Championship it may not be safe, smart or necessary to complete the league. Stoke City vs Birmingham City v Stoke for instance is not a fixture that needs to be played. 

There is significant TV money at stake and the promotion issue needs to be fairly determined. The format below will enable a manageable number of highly engaging matches with genuine tension in each game.

League table after 37 games

WBA                      71 points

Leeds                    70 points

Fulham                 64 points

Brentford            60 points

Nottingham F    60 points

Preston NE          56 points

Bristol City          55 points

 

Promotion places determined as follows:

Match Day One

Match 1               WBA v Leeds, winner promoted as Champions

Match 2               Brentford v Bristol City, losers remain in Championship

Match 3                Nottingham F v Preston NE. losers remain in Championship

Match Day Two

Match 4                Fulham vs losers Match 1, winners promoted

Match 5                Winners Match 2 vs Winners Match 3, losers remain in Championship

Match Day Three

Match 6                Losers Match 4 vs Winners Match 5, winners promoted

In case games are level after extra time match will be determined by penalties

[Robin101]

I think you're dreaming if you think they'll squeeze 7th placed into some supercharged play-off scenario! 

For us, the war is over.

[Littlesh*t]

Why is stoke vs birmingham irrelevant? 

Stoke are 3 points off relegation, I would say they have a lot to play for.

 

I have said it before but for me they either complete the season (stupid idea) or abandon it all together. For any fan putting football above peoples lives really needs to give there head a wobble 

[Dottie]

The table is so tight, Swansea in 11th place are only 3 points off 6th place & Derby in 12th only 6 points away, you would have to include at least 5 more teams. 

[Lrrr]

9 games could change so much, how quickly have Hull dropped towards relegation zone? if anything gets played it should be playing out the season to its completion. If you're not playing out the season to completion then it should be PPG or table stands as is and promotion/relegation based off that, voiding a season brings more problems then tables standing now/PPE decision and shouldn't be considered.

 

[Davefevs]

@sugarwray I don’t like your idea, sorry.  Why include City, when Cardiff for example are only 1 point below us.

If I was trying to come up with something convoluted, I’d put the 4 playoff teams in a group, and let them play each other in a group, but carry points difference in....Fulham +8, Forest +4, Brentford + 4, Preston 0.  Preston would have to win all 3 games to overtake Fulham, and hope Fulham lose both of theirs.

In the cricket World Cup, teams carried through their sins from the group stage into the super eight stage.  That’s another option....or even take the 4 teams and finish their fixtures against each other.  So imagine Preston still had Brentford left to play, but had played the other 5....then take their points over the 5 games and play out the 6th fixture.

But imho, any contrived method of giving a playoff promotion position, should EXCLUDE City.

[AppyDAZE]

Contentious i know, but for me this season should be just null and void. Unforeseen circumstances, it happens.

Liverpool, maybe there can be some kind of agreement and they can be given it. But as for the rest, it's just one of them things.

Onto next season, all being well.

[sugarwray]

It is only a suggestion ...

Stopping the season leaves a lot of TV money on the table at a time when the clubs need the cash

Playing all the games would not come over as being responsible.

A shortened post season would enable TV cash to be secured.

The French solution is to add to the points total the points already claimed off the teams already played. We would get 0 points for our remain fixture with Blackburn and 3 points for our Stoke game  etc... this would still leave us behind Preston 

 

[The Gasbuster]

Personally, I want to see the clubs who have cheated get their comeuppance.

This means Bolton not escaping relegation; and if Sheff W, Derby & Villa are found guilty, then they too are relegated. They shouldn’t be given a free pass to get their houses in order, and cover things up,  by remaining another season at their present levels.

[Mr Popodopolous]

29 minutes ago, The Gasbuster said:

Personally, I want to see the clubs who have cheated get their comeuppance.

This means Bolton not escaping relegation; and if Sheff W, Derby & Villa are found guilty, then they too are relegated. They shouldn’t be given a free pass to get their houses in order, and cover things up,  by remaining another season at their present levels.

Fully agreed.

I question whether Bolton have cheated as such or whether that was down to a terrible owner (Ken Anderson)- not like they spent an awful lot at all.

That aside, their 12 point deduction for admin should lead to relegation- the good news is too Sheffield Wednesday's hearing is in July, Derby's may also be- and Aston Villa, we shall have to wait and see.

Looking at their (Aston Villa's) run-in though, I struggle to see them surviving- shame!

[Chappers]

So a team 16 points behind WBA, and not in a play off place, may sneak up ahead of them in a bizarre play off? One positive Covid 19 test and this is Donald Ducked

[LocoPal]

Should the top three go up, without another ball being kicked?

If the season is ended prematurarly, (and I know we'd be missing out in this scenario), but after 37 games played each, surely, aren't we all where we deserve to be in the table.

Then we (try to) start over in Aug or Sept, by which time, more robust plans can be put in place and i would give the promoted/relagated clubs time to adjust/invest for their new league.

There'd be no need to change division sizes or let this indecision & doubt drag on.

[downendcity]

Each remaining fixture is decided by best of 5 paper, stone scissors. If the scores are equal after 5 rounds that is a draw with1 point to each team. A win gives 3 points to the winner and an additional goal to goal difference, while the loser has a additional goal added to their goal against total.

Each team's representative plays their opponent via zoom meeting online, thereby protecting social distancing.

When the season is finished the play offs and play off final are deiced in the same way.

This football administration is a doddle.  

I'm now off to sort out the ffp rules..................

 

[Med/MadHatter]

I think THIS season should be completed when life resumes, WHENEVER life resumes, NEXT season should be totally cancelled or truncated to a half season if there is time to fit it in.

[Ronnie Sinclair]

20 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

I think THIS season should be completed when life resumes, WHENEVER life resumes, NEXT season should be totally cancelled or truncated to a half season if there is time to fit it in.

This is what I've been saying all along (not on here granted) - as far as I'm concerned, next season doesn't exist at the moment (no fixtures announced etc), whereas all that effort, all the records etc from this season does.

[DSTAF]

I fear our rush to bring back football is going to have tragic consequences.  

[Mr Popodopolous]

32 minutes ago, DSTAF said:

I fear our rush to bring back football is going to have tragic consequences.  

Is that risk not inherent for workers who still have to go in daily?

NHS first and foremost- shop workers, food delivery and so on. All key workers in facts but those first 2 are at greatest risk MO.

If any player doesn't wish to play, feel safe to play then that is entirely their prerogative.

Just hope they don't expect full pay.

'Tragic consequences'? Can you elaborate?

[Coin-op]

As much as I want to watch football again, just re start this season in March 2021 if all is good. That is my opinion. 

[Fordy62]

I think it’s fairest if the top 8 teams are promoted on the basis of alphabetical order. It’s the fairest way. 
 

Congratulations to champions Brentford. 

[Simon79]

5 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@sugarwray I don’t like your idea, sorry.  Why include City, when Cardiff for example are only 1 point below us.

If I was trying to come up with something convoluted, I’d put the 4 playoff teams in a group, and let them play each other in a group, but carry points difference in....Fulham +8, Forest +4, Brentford + 4, Preston 0.  Preston would have to win all 3 games to overtake Fulham, and hope Fulham lose both of theirs.

In the cricket World Cup, teams carried through their sins from the group stage into the super eight stage.  That’s another option....or even take the 4 teams and finish their fixtures against each other.  So imagine Preston still had Brentford left to play, but had played the other 5....then take their points over the 5 games and play out the 6th fixture.

But imho, any contrived method of giving a playoff promotion position, should EXCLUDE City.

Cause it’s Cardiff COYR 

[Reigate Red]

Surely the natural way is to sort promotion and playoffs based on alphabetical order 

Although the fact that the bottom team would be champions might suggest this is not a well thought through idea on a Friday night

[Ronnie Sinclair]

2 hours ago, Fordy62 said:

I think it’s fairest if the top 8 teams are promoted on the basis of alphabetical order. It’s the fairest way. 
 

Congratulations to champions Brentford. 

BREAKING NEWS - Leeds United apply to the Football League to change their name to Aardvark Athletic

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Throughout the league structure no one has clinched a championship or promotion and no one has been mathematically relegated. The season should therefore be declared over with no promotions or relegations. No one gets any monies which are rolled over to next season. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

This is what Reading University think according to the BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52507779

[DSTAF]

20 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is that risk not inherent for workers who still have to go in daily?

NHS first and foremost- shop workers, food delivery and so on. All key workers in facts but those first 2 are at greatest risk MO.

If any player doesn't wish to play, feel safe to play then that is entirely their prerogative.

Just hope they don't expect full pay.

'Tragic consequences'? Can you elaborate?

Footballers are not key workers in any shape or form.  Bringing football back will take up key workers and scarce resources. You should be able to fit tragic consequences into that with a little bit of thinking. 

[kit]

I think the only two sporting things to do are to either null and void the season or wait to resume when football can be played in front of fans at the teams home ground.

Take the championship table and you have a split where the table is split in two where birmingham and up have a chance of promotion (birmingham I think would require 23 points from 27 to sneak a play off spot, tough but impossible), then directly below Birmingham you have stoke 3 points above the drop. Other circumstances are teams like hull in free fall, cardiff, millwall, Blackburn all on decent runs towards a play off push. Leeds and west Brom both had poor runs so what's to say that wouldn't happen again. A points per game system just doesn't take into account these things and for me is a farce of a system. League 1 is even tighter at the top. There are too many unknowns to make it fair or sporting.

Playing games in neutral venues behind closed doors is again a massive disadvantage, just take us these last two seasons and any advantage we've had in away games is gone, the same is the case in the premier league where it is so tight at the bottom that small advantages that would have been available in games is all of a sudden gone. 

Then you have the premier league who have a real drive to finish, and so will relegate 3 teams, but if the football league decide to not relegate teams from their divisions then we have possibly a 27 team league next season which is stupid and will just knock all leagues out of sync.

I can't see how you can change rules part way through a season, so either null and void or just wait until the season can resume in normality in 6 or 8 months. 

If the public are desperate for football just set up some round robin style games to play behind closed doors like the wartime leagues or whatever.

[Davefevs]

18 hours ago, Ronnie Sinclair said:

BREAKING NEWS - Leeds United apply to the Football League to change their name to Aardvark Athletic

You can bet Mel Morris has already bought the name for Derby....only to find out Chansiri at Sheffield Wednesday did it afterwards but backdated it to 1235 B.C.

[ChippenhamRed]

I still haven’t had a satisfactory answer to the question of why starting a new season appears to be a priority over finishing one 75% complete.

Just finish this season first - whenever it’s safe to do so, and however far away that is.

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

I still haven’t had a satisfactory answer to the question of why starting a new season appears to be a priority over finishing one 75% complete.

Just finish this season first - whenever it’s safe to do so, and however far away that is.

That would be my preference, but....

....contract end dates of 30.06 create obstacles.  Even with severance payments for July, if the season goes into July, you are in effect asking a player to play for nothing, risking injury....whilst not contracted, and therefore not covered by their club.  That is one where employment law is gonna trump any blanket extension of player contracts.  It would have to be mutually agreed....and clubs in Lg1/2 are already releasing players early to give them a chance (possibly fat chance!) of finding a new club.

Secondly, loan terminations.  Pros and cons on both sides.  At a simplistic level we would want to extend Benik, Stoke would want him to return.  Normally Benik would return in the off season.  That position is now changed.  He shouldn’t be allowed to play for Stoke....but City might not want to extend paying his wages.  Ditto on the flip-flop, with Marty Taylor...who is complicated by being out of contract here on 30.06.

So two simple issues....that are very complex to resolve.

[ChippenhamRed]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

That would be my preference, but....

....contract end dates of 30.06 create obstacles.  Even with severance payments for July, if the season goes into July, you are in effect asking a player to play for nothing, risking injury....whilst not contracted, and therefore not covered by their club.  That is one where employment law is gonna trump any blanket extension of player contracts.  It would have to be mutually agreed....and clubs in Lg1/2 are already releasing players early to give them a chance (possibly fat chance!) of finding a new club.

Secondly, loan terminations.  Pros and cons on both sides.  At a simplistic level we would want to extend Benik, Stoke would want him to return.  Normally Benik would return in the off season.  That position is now changed.  He shouldn’t be allowed to play for Stoke....but City might not want to extend paying his wages.  Ditto on the flip-flop, with Marty Taylor...who is complicated by being out of contract here on 30.06.

So two simple issues....that are very complex to resolve.

Well that’s the closest thing I’ve had to a satisfactory answer! But - genuine questions - why is it so hard to extend a contract, legally speaking, if there’s a will on both sides (player and club)? And if that can’t be done, could we not just accept that this season would have to be completed with what would effectively be next season’s squad?

For me that would still be preferable to ripping up a near-complete season and invalidating all the matches played to date.