The Bard Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 Not in terms of style / entertainment , but purely in terms of being organised properly. To have a collective attitude. On the day the Bundesliga is given the go ahead to resume, the game here is shown to be a mess. Dominated by greed and selfishness with inept governance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 49 minutes ago, The Bard said: Not in terms of style / entertainment , but purely in terms of being organised properly. To have a collective attitude. On the day the Bundesliga is given the go ahead to resume, the game here is shown to be a mess. Dominated by greed and selfishness with inept governance. We won the war, they've won everything since (pretty much). It's still a surprise that we managed to win the war (all on our own, let's not forget) when you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 1 hour ago, The Bard said: Not in terms of style / entertainment , but purely in terms of being organised properly. To have a collective attitude. On the day the Bundesliga is given the go ahead to resume, the game here is shown to be a mess. Dominated by greed and selfishness with inept governance. Demonstrates the immense cultural difference. Football is a social construct so it reflects the conditions of the society in which its played. If you have a problem with the game in the UK, then you have a problem with society in the UK. In my opinion, everyone should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, ZiderEyed said: Demonstrates the immense cultural difference. Football is a social construct so it reflects the conditions of the society in which its played. If you have a problem with the game in the UK, then you have a problem with society in the UK. In my opinion, everyone should. You aren’t suggesting our society in this country has become selfish and greedy are you?? Surely not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixtyseconds Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 We are owned. Owned by? Living where? Start the revolution there Comrade Bard. Ah ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slacker Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 Just because they have been given the go ahead,it doesn't necessarily make it the right decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 No doubt the Bundesliga is a better experience for the attending fan.... it's cheaper, you can drink, stand up, etc etc Unless, you actually want competitive football. Here's a list of champions from the 2012-13 season on. Bayern Munich ... Want to know who's top this year? I'll give you one guess! So how is this going to change? Well as the T.V revenue money is shared based on performances, and the international revenue is based on international performances, it ... won't. And the 50+1 rule prevents investment coming in. As much as people dislike the foreign investment coming in it's meant we've had great league campaigns to watch, and there's stakes at the top and bottom of the top flight nearly every year. Promotion and relegation to and from the top flight actually mean something and the amount of money coming in allows even the worst teams in the Premier league to be competitive and have good players. The Bundesliga has the highest fan attendance as it's catered towards the attending fan experience. The premier league has the highest revenue, and is watched by the most people around the world because it caters to that market better. It's nice to have choice. The biggest thing I care about is that the games matter. So for me, German football has little interest. There is no dream there. Also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHILINFRANCE Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 48 minutes ago, Davefevs said: When Uli Hoeness, Chief Something or Other at Bayern said that season tickets were cheap because of other revenues and therefore they didn’t need to take advantage of the fans, you got a sense that German football has its head screwed on. Also worth bearing in mind is that their season ticket includes free travel on public transport for 3 hours pre and post match, regardless of distance from the ground, i.e. throughout Bavaria. Of personal interest to you, no doubt, I also understand that disabled tickets - not sure about carers - are extremely cheap. One problem, though, and I know this from a nephew of mine who lives in Munich and supports Bayern, is that season tickets are extremely hard to obtain, staying in the family for years: with home matches invariably sold out well in advance, I understand it is very difficult to actually get a ticket to watch a Bayern home match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted May 6, 2020 Report Share Posted May 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Prinny said: No doubt the Bundesliga is a better experience for the attending fan.... it's cheaper, you can drink, stand up, etc etc Unless, you actually want competitive football. Here's a list of champions from the 2012-13 season on. Bayern Munich ... Want to know who's top this year? I'll give you one guess! So how is this going to change? Well as the T.V revenue money is shared based on performances, and the international revenue is based on international performances, it ... won't. And the 50+1 rule prevents investment coming in. As much as people dislike the foreign investment coming in it's meant we've had great league campaigns to watch, and there's stakes at the top and bottom of the top flight nearly every year. Promotion and relegation to and from the top flight actually mean something and the amount of money coming in allows even the worst teams in the Premier league to be competitive and have good players. The Bundesliga has the highest fan attendance as it's catered towards the attending fan experience. The premier league has the highest revenue, and is watched by the most people around the world because it caters to that market better. It's nice to have choice. The biggest thing I care about is that the games matter. So for me, German football has little interest. There is no dream there. Also I'm not so sure Bayern will win the title this year- looks like a 3 horse race atm, if and when it resumes again. That could be tricky. Also there have been landslide Bayern wins...but also quite competitive races. As in Italy, see Juventus win x years in a row but that overlooks competitive races a number of those seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elhombrecito Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 All the WW2 talk is now here: Let's leave this thread to German football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, elhombrecito said: All the WW2 talk is now here: Let's leave this thread to German football Our football is shite compared to German football. Take international matches - if only we could borrow a Lato or a Boniek, a Yashin or a ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 16 hours ago, ZiderEyed said: Demonstrates the immense cultural difference. Football is a social construct so it reflects the conditions of the society in which its played. If you have a problem with the game in the UK, then you have a problem with society in the UK. In my opinion, everyone should. Yeah Germany is a paradise thanks to Merkel isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderEyed Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 53 minutes ago, Natchfever said: Yeah Germany is a paradise thanks to Merkel isn't it. Cool strawman bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 19 hours ago, Prinny said: No doubt the Bundesliga is a better experience for the attending fan.... it's cheaper, you can drink, stand up, etc etc The Bundesliga has the highest fan attendance as it's catered towards the attending fan experience. In this country we know the Champions will be from the North West Portugal and Spain, two horse races. France & Scotland - who can catch PSG & Celtic? Therefore let's go for atmosphere and have an enjoyable Saturday afternoon rather than sitting in neat rows and applauding politely at the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 2 hours ago, 22A said: In this country we know the Champions will be from the North West Portugal and Spain, two horse races. France & Scotland - who can catch PSG & Celtic? Therefore let's go for atmosphere and have an enjoyable Saturday afternoon rather than sitting in neat rows and applauding politely at the end. Didn't realise Leicester and London were in the North West... Things change in English football. In Germany the rich stay rich and Bayern win. Sure you can talk about individual seasons, but there's a wider point about the fluidity of who can challenge in England compared to a lot of other countries. Especially those with prohibitive investment rules or individual TV rights deals. If you're more into community singalongs cool, I want to watch sport with stakes. Especially on TV where you're not part of the atmosphere. Sitting in rows and neatly applauding and all holding your scarves up at the same time and dressing the same and waving flags is the same to me. It's dull. Give me the excitement from an unexpected result or goal, the natural emotion rather than organisational cheering. I'm here more for the sport than the community. Different strokes. It's not a my viewpoint is better thing, just a difference on what people want from sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Prinny said: Didn't realise Leicester and London were in the North West... Things change in English football. In Germany the rich stay rich and Bayern win. Sure you can talk about individual seasons, but there's a wider point about the fluidity of who can challenge in England compared to a lot of other countries. Especially those with prohibitive investment rules or individual TV rights deals. If you're more into community singalongs cool, I want to watch sport with stakes. Especially on TV where you're not part of the atmosphere. Sitting in rows and neatly applauding and all holding your scarves up at the same time and dressing the same and waving flags is the same to me. It's dull. Give me the excitement from an unexpected result or goal, the natural emotion rather than organisational cheering. I'm here more for the sport than the community. Different strokes. It's not a my viewpoint is better thing, just a difference on what people want from sport. Tbf to him his geography may not be the best but they are all north of Bristol so he’s half right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 On 06/05/2020 at 21:50, Prinny said: No doubt the Bundesliga is a better experience for the attending fan.... it's cheaper, you can drink, stand up, etc etc Unless, you actually want competitive football. Here's a list of champions from the 2012-13 season on. Bayern Munich ... Want to know who's top this year? I'll give you one guess! So how is this going to change? Well as the T.V revenue money is shared based on performances, and the international revenue is based on international performances, it ... won't. And the 50+1 rule prevents investment coming in. As much as people dislike the foreign investment coming in it's meant we've had great league campaigns to watch, and there's stakes at the top and bottom of the top flight nearly every year. Promotion and relegation to and from the top flight actually mean something and the amount of money coming in allows even the worst teams in the Premier league to be competitive and have good players. The Bundesliga has the highest fan attendance as it's catered towards the attending fan experience. The premier league has the highest revenue, and is watched by the most people around the world because it caters to that market better. It's nice to have choice. The biggest thing I care about is that the games matter. So for me, German football has little interest. There is no dream there. Also Five different teams have won the German League this century, exactly the same as the amount who have won the Premier League, so I don’t understand your point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 7, 2020 Report Share Posted May 7, 2020 50 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Five different teams have won the German League this century, exactly the same as the amount who have won the Premier League, so I don’t understand your point! 4 clubs have won the premier league since Munich last didn’t win the Bundesliga,that’s the point he’s getting at,of course you can go back as far as you want to make a arguement but the Bundesliga at the moment is the most uncompetitive league in Europe(apart from Scotland of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poland_exile Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 I think arguing over the competitiveness of these respective top flights is really splitting hairs and isn't too far apart from debating the difference between blondes or brunettes. You can make an argument for both, and people have done so very well above (as in, the football leagues not blondes and brunettes). What can't be disputed is the German fan experience being several levels beyond anything we can even wish for in terms of its pricing and atmosphere, let alone its beer and terracing. Fan experience is absolutely EVERYTHING to me - if I want to watch great football then it's easy enough to watch that on TV. Fan experience on the other hand is the priceless Factor X that makes watching the sport in the flesh the addictive pastime that it is. The Germans have it nailed. England on the other hand has lost it. So for me, given the choice of England or Germany for football it's an absolute no-brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 21 hours ago, joe jordans teeth said: 4 clubs have won the premier league since Munich last didn’t win the Bundesliga,that’s the point he’s getting at,of course you can go back as far as you want to make a arguement but the Bundesliga at the moment is the most uncompetitive league in Europe(apart from Scotland of course) The English game has been dominated in the past by single teams, go back to when Liverpool dominated, then Man Utd did it. You can predict the winners in all the top leagues in the world, and you would be correct more times than wrong, that’s just the way it is. As for uncompetitive leagues, surely this season’s Premier League must win it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 32 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: The English game has been dominated in the past by single teams, go back to when Liverpool dominated, then Man Utd did it. You can predict the winners in all the top leagues in the world, and you would be correct more times than wrong, that’s just the way it is. As for uncompetitive leagues, surely this season’s Premier League must win it!! Hence I said how far in history do you want to go back,can you pick the next season prem winners because I can sure as hell tell you Munich PSG and Celtic are nailed on in their respective countries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 4 hours ago, poland_exile said: I think arguing over the competitiveness of these respective top flights is really splitting hairs and isn't too far apart from debating the difference between blondes or brunettes. You can make an argument for both, and people have done so very well above (as in, the football leagues not blondes and brunettes). What can't be disputed is the German fan experience being several levels beyond anything we can even wish for in terms of its pricing and atmosphere, let alone its beer and terracing. Fan experience is absolutely EVERYTHING to me - if I want to watch great football then it's easy enough to watch that on TV. Fan experience on the other hand is the priceless Factor X that makes watching the sport in the flesh the addictive pastime that it is. The Germans have it nailed. England on the other hand has lost it. So for me, given the choice of England or Germany for football it's an absolute no-brainer. So right tbf but it’s all about results in this country,if German fans had to put up with how city have played over the last 2 years they wouldn’t stand for it but all we hear is we are improving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portland Bill Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 33 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said: Hence I said how far in history do you want to go back,can you pick the next season prem winners because I can sure as hell tell you Munich PSG and Celtic are nailed on in their respective countries Liverpool will clearly win the Premier League, the German League is far from over, looking at their table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS4 on Tour... Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 You can buy a Borussia Dortmund season ticket for the same price as a single match ticket at Arsenal ... we’ve got it all wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 16 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Liverpool will clearly win the Premier League, the German League is far from over, looking at their table. I said next,clearly need to give your glasses a wipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe jordans teeth Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 8 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said: You can buy a Borussia Dortmund season ticket for the same price as a single match ticket at Arsenal ... we’ve got it all wrong Or a Bristol City season ticket when you put it that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted May 8, 2020 Report Share Posted May 8, 2020 5 hours ago, poland_exile said: I think arguing over the competitiveness of these respective top flights is really splitting hairs and isn't too far apart from debating the difference between blondes or brunettes. You can make an argument for both, and people have done so very well above (as in, the football leagues not blondes and brunettes). What can't be disputed is the German fan experience being several levels beyond anything we can even wish for in terms of its pricing and atmosphere, let alone its beer and terracing. Fan experience is absolutely EVERYTHING to me - if I want to watch great football then it's easy enough to watch that on TV. Fan experience on the other hand is the priceless Factor X that makes watching the sport in the flesh the addictive pastime that it is. The Germans have it nailed. England on the other hand has lost it. So for me, given the choice of England or Germany for football it's an absolute no-brainer. So this is my point, if you want fan experience Germany is better. I don't care too much about fan experience, I'm more into the competition, that's my "priceless Factor X", so for me English football is better. 33 minutes ago, joe jordans teeth said: Hence I said how far in history do you want to go back,can you pick the next season prem winners because I can sure as hell tell you Munich PSG and Celtic are nailed on in their respective countries Agree completely. 3 minutes ago, Portland Bill said: Liverpool will clearly win the Premier League, the German League is far from over, looking at their table. Right. you're getting very lost in the weeds here with random time frames. My definition of being competitively healthy is having different teams dominating and having the potential to dominate. Yes you're going to have individual seasons where it's not a good league, but English football is more volatile and therefore more interesting to me. It does not change in Germany. It does not historically. Since the national championship started, Bayern have won it half the time, literally 28 times of 56, the next team have 5. And because the way the league is structured, that pattern won't change IMO. If your definition of being the leagues being competitive is this seasons league being closer in Germany, ok, I'm not going to dispute that. We can look at the tables. You're right, but you need to agree on the definitions not change them or we don't get anywhere with a discussion. I'm looking at the combination of historical trends, the rules of the league and recent history to judge the overall competitiveness of the two when judging the overall health of the competition and my ability to be interested in it. Who do you think will win the Premier League the next ten years? I have no idea, because it changes, and an investor can come in and flip the board.That's exciting to me. Who do you think will win the Bundesliga the next ten years? 5/10 at least will be Bayern. At least, if we look at the way things are right now. That's boring to me. So for me to be invested emotionally in a league, and pay money for for it (too much money, for not a wonderful fan experience) I want the overall volatility and potential for change which English football has and German football does not. Disagreeing is fine, having your own definitions is fine, those are mine and the reasons behind why I think the way I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted May 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 The title I used for the thread was possibly a little misleading. Main point I was trying to make was the massive disparity in the competence of the organisation of football in the 2 countries. We're still pissing about arguing because there is no leadership whereas they're about to start in Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted May 9, 2020 Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, The Bard said: The title I used for the thread was possibly a little misleading. Main point I was trying to make was the massive disparity in the competence of the organisation of football in the 2 countries. We're still pissing about arguing because there is no leadership whereas they're about to start in Germany. It's not really about governance though (although I agree) It's about safety and its not safe to resume here, yet. Is it safe enough in Germany yet..? I don't know. I hope so, or there are going to be some very serious questions asked about why the hell they've rushed back and endangered lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard Posted May 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 9, 2020 Of course it is safe there and will be here too. It's clear that the countries that invested in testing are the ones going back to normal earliest and with the lowest casualties. It's just a matter of testing and isolating, It's really that simple. City are a decently run club who seem to have worked out early how this was likely to pan out. The upper echelons of the game here seem clueless -palpably nobody is actually in charge. Just a load of competing interests bickering via the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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