SC&T Survey Results: Fans Call for Refunds

[S25loyal]

40 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

I have an issue with it, because I'd like a club to go back to supporting when this is all over..! 

Not receiving a small refund will make very little/no difference to me,  having paid it out long ago. 

Refunding 15k people £100 each, when there is no income being generated,  could be crippling for our club and most others outside of the Premier league bubble. 

Where do you think the PL are so hell bent on an solution ASAP..? Because if clubs have to refund Sky and supporters, it eould/could be catastrophic, having already spent the money they've received. 

So yet again “normal” people are being held to ransom due to the emotional connection to football.

Footballers themselves at the moment arnt taking any hit on this, so Derek from hartcliffe has to be happy to lose his £800 for an unknown period when his missus has just lost her job, while some of our players are still taking in 20k a week for doing absolutely nothing.

players wages is what will cripple us. Take a season ticket at £700 each, 13k season ticket holders is £9.1million 

If some of our players are on 20k a week that is over £1mill a year they are getting in wages it ONE PLAYER. 

cracking logic you got there, it isn’t the fans asking for refunds that will kill football. It’s the players. 

[Bristol Rob]

7 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

So yet again “normal” people are being held to ransom due to the emotional connection to football.

Footballers themselves at the moment arnt taking any hit on this, so Derek from hartcliffe has to be happy to lose his £800 for an unknown period when his missus has just lost her job, while some of our players are still taking in 20k a week for doing absolutely nothing.

players wages is what will cripple us. Take a season ticket at £700 each, 13k season ticket holders is £9.1million 

If some of our players are on 20k a week that is over £1mill a year they are getting in wages it ONE PLAYER. 

cracking logic you got there, it isn’t the fans asking for refunds that will kill football. It’s the players. 

Your claim that the players are doing absolutely nothing is untrue. They are training everyday, listen to some of the interviews with LJ.

As for players on 1mil a year.

Things you learn on here... who knew players didn't pay income tax!

[S25loyal]

8 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Your claim that the players are doing absolutely nothing is untrue. They are training everyday, listen to some of the interviews with LJ.

As for players on 1mil a year.

Things you learn on here... who knew players didn't pay income tax!

When have I mentioned they don’t pay tax? They still earn that money before tax.

You never see jobs advertised as net pay do you, the club are still paying them that a year regardless of them paying income tax  

 

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

When have I mentioned they don’t pay tax? They still earn that money before tax.

You never see jobs advertised as net pay do you.

 

But neither do you reasonably point out that their NI contributions would pay for a nurse, or that they contribute over 400k to the treasury which would go some distance in the furlough pot.

You just seem to want to blame football players for what you think is an injustice. 

What about those who could work, and have made a lifestyle choice not to do so (in some cases, for years) and have decided a life on benefits suits them fine? Maybe they should be the ones to take the hit, having already taken their fair share*?

*I'm not suggesting they should by the way.

[Bar BS3]

26 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

So yet again “normal” people are being held to ransom due to the emotional connection to football.

Footballers themselves at the moment arnt taking any hit on this, so Derek from hartcliffe has to be happy to lose his £800 for an unknown period when his missus has just lost her job, while some of our players are still taking in 20k a week for doing absolutely nothing.

players wages is what will cripple us. Take a season ticket at £700 each, 13k season ticket holders is £9.1million 

If some of our players are on 20k a week that is over £1mill a year they are getting in wages it ONE PLAYER. 

cracking logic you got there, it isn’t the fans asking for refunds that will kill football. It’s the players. 

I think that's an entirely different argument though. 

Players have contracts. The clubs have little or no option other than to pay them. 

We (the fans) want our club to have the best players we can get. They come with a cost. 

Do you want the club to lose some of its best players, to refund a small amount of money to thousands of people..? 

Anyway, they might. They are probably waiting until there's some clarity on the situation. 

I'm just surprised that calling for a refund is top of some people's (footballing) priorities right now. 

Next season is of course a whole different ball game, as that's not even started. I can understand people wanting refunds if a large proportion of that is not going to be attendable. 

But for the few remaining games of this season, when everything is so up in the air, just seems petty to me. 

[Bar BS3]

19 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

But neither do you reasonably point out that their NI contributions would pay for a nurse, or that they contribute over 400k to the treasury which would go some distance in the furlough pot.

You just seem to want to blame football players for what you think is an injustice. 

What about those who could work, and have made a lifestyle choice not to do so (in some cases, for years) and have decided a life on benefits suits them fine? Maybe they should be the ones to take the hit, having already taken their fair share*?

*I'm not suggesting they should by the way.

There's alot to be said for looking at this in that way. 

I think it was the guy who used to play for Ipswich and then Stoke (name escapes me at the moment) who replied to criticism, outlining the difference in Contributions that (some) players would make, if they took a 50% pay cut. 

It would cost the country a small fortune. 

[Abraham Romanovich]

1 hour ago, Maesknoll Red said:

Isn't Jon the Chairman, does he live in Guernsey? 

That aside, at what level of bank balance should any business owner be unable to take advantage of the furlough scheme?  How do you assess that balance?  Cash, shares (taken a hit), property (taking a hit), investments - could go either way....

When individuals on minimum pay are risking their lives for the public good is it really too much to expect SL to contribute money to offset financial hardship for stadium ancillary staff rather than asking you and me.

Legally he has every right but this really does not sit well with me.

As for others, struggling businesses deserve all the help they can get but in this particular instance I feel an error of judgement has been made.

[Bristol Rob]

23 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

When individuals on minimum pay are risking their lives for the public good is it really too much to expect SL to contribute money to offset financial hardship for stadium ancillary staff rather than asking you and me.

Legally he has every right but this really does not sit well with me.

As for others, struggling businesses deserve all the help they can get but in this particular instance I feel an error of judgement has been made.

No one was conscripted in to working for the NHS.

They staff and players of the football club will pay a huge amount of tax already, so they have 'paid' for those furloughed.

Who is asking us to pay? I haven't been asked.

[CodeRed]

For me it's quite simple. I want a refund for the remaining games and I 'm disappointed the club haven't already offered it. The season end date has passed so regardless of what the EFL or PL are discussing the contract hasn't been fulfilled and those that wish should be refunded. I have tv contracts with Sky sports and BT sport and both have contacted me (without any prompt from me) and offered. to reduce my payments until live sport returns. They can't provide the product I paid for so have effectively refunded me. Football should be no different - in fact in normal times if a game is postponed due to weather or something match tickets are valid for the rearranged game but a refund is always offered as an option.....so they same should apply. I accept that the ST is valid for the whole season and games may be rearranged within the season without a refund but the key point for me is the season is OVER. I'm sure under the CRA 2015 regulations a refund is a customer right in this case so why the delay?

The whole BCD streaming scenario is a sideshow...it's not what I paid for, if the club want to offer this fine..but the full refund should always be offered as a choice.

As an aside I 'm amazed that so many ordinary working people are willing to chuck their money at a billionaire who chooses to avoid paying any UK tax on his UK income especially when the current situation has highlighted what necessity there is for tax revenue and how the country depends on the taxpayer to fund a free NHS for it's citizens.  The "he's paid enough" doesn't wash with me.

[Robbored]

5 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

For me it's quite simple. I want a refund for the remaining games and I 'm disappointed the club haven't already offered it. The season end date has passed so regardless of what the EFL or PL are discussing the contract hasn't been fulfilled and those that wish should be refunded. I have tv contracts with Sky sports and BT sport and both have contacted me (without any prompt from me) and offered. to reduce my payments until live sport returns. They can't provide the product I paid for so have effectively refunded me. Football should be no different - in fact in normal times if a game is postponed due to weather or something match tickets are valid for the rearranged game but a refund is always offered as an option.....so they same should apply. I accept that the ST is valid for the whole season and games may be rearranged within the season without a refund but the key point for me is the season is OVER. I'm sure under the CRA 2015 regulations a refund is a customer right in this case so why the delay?

The whole BCD streaming scenario is a sideshow...it's not what I paid for, if the club want to offer this fine..but the full refund should always be offered as a choice.

As an aside I 'm amazed that so many ordinary working people are willing to chuck their money at a billionaire who chooses to avoid paying any UK tax on his UK income especially when the current situation has highlighted what necessity there is for tax revenue and how the country depends on the taxpayer to fund a free NHS for it's citizens.  The "he's paid enough" doesn't wash with me.

It’s quite simple for me to.

I’m not bothered about a refund. For me it would be less than a £100 so not a huge amount. 
What I’d be happy with is should the remaining games be played behind closed doors is free access to a live stream. 

These are vastly unusual times with the first pandemic in a 100 years and we all have to toe the line.

As for SL being a tax exiled billionaire - so what? He ain’t the only one doing  the same, Richard Branson for example.

We have to remember that SL chooses to be involved in our club. He could just sell up and walk away. We could end up with a foreign owner asset stripper.

Be careful what you wish for CR.

 

[weepywall]

18 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

For me it's quite simple. I want a refund for the remaining games and I 'm disappointed the club haven't already offered it. The season end date has passed so regardless of what the EFL or PL are discussing the contract hasn't been fulfilled and those that wish should be refunded. I have tv contracts with Sky sports and BT sport and both have contacted me (without any prompt from me) and offered. to reduce my payments until live sport returns. They can't provide the product I paid for so have effectively refunded me. Football should be no different - in fact in normal times if a game is postponed due to weather or something match tickets are valid for the rearranged game but a refund is always offered as an option.....so they same should apply. I accept that the ST is valid for the whole season and games may be rearranged within the season without a refund but the key point for me is the season is OVER. I'm sure under the CRA 2015 regulations a refund is a customer right in this case so why the delay?

The whole BCD streaming scenario is a sideshow...it's not what I paid for, if the club want to offer this fine..but the full refund should always be offered as a choice.

As an aside I 'm amazed that so many ordinary working people are willing to chuck their money at a billionaire who chooses to avoid paying any UK tax on his UK income especially when the current situation has highlighted what necessity there is for tax revenue and how the country depends on the taxpayer to fund a free NHS for it's citizens.  The "he's paid enough" doesn't wash with me.

I agree with a lot you are saying but the season hasn't been cancelled yet so they can't offer refunds, i have had refunds from concerts that have been cancelled, I would expect the club to offer refunds if or when this season is officially cancelled  and I personally will take up this offer, not interested in live streams of behind closed door games.

[lenred]

11 minutes ago, Robbored said:

It’s quite simple for me to.

I’m not bothered about a refund. For me it would be less than a £100 so not a huge amount. 
What I’d be happy with is should the remaining games be played behind closed doors is free access to a live stream. 

These are vastly unusual times with the first pandemic in a 100 years and we all have to toe the line.

As for SL being a tax exiled billionaire - so what? He ain’t the only one doing  the same, Richard Branson for example.

We have to remember that SL chooses to be involved in our club. He could just sell up and walk away. We could end up with a foreign owner asset stripper.

Be careful what you wish for CR.

 

Keep seeing this comment about and fair play RR, to you it may not be a huge amount. But to many people with little money that’s a weekly / fortnight’s food shop, or new school uniforms for the kids next school year, or a couple of months travel costs etc etc etc. Some people stretch themselves to watch City. Not everyone is as lucky as to be able to just say they aren’t bothered about a hundred odd quid. 

[Bristol Rob]

I think a few people need a reality check, and maybe to read the club charter before they buy a ticket.

Most (but not all) scenarios are explained in there. A once in a century global pandemic is missing (unsurprisingly).

If the government advice is 'stay at home' but the club say, 'well, the advice is stay at home, but we are going to open the stadium wonder how many would risk it? - if that was the only option, no refund as you could go and watch the game at your own risk.

[cidercity1987]

 

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

For me it's quite simple. I want a refund for the remaining games and I 'm disappointed the club haven't already offered it. The season end date has passed so regardless of what the EFL or PL are discussing the contract hasn't been fulfilled and those that wish should be refunded. I have tv contracts with Sky sports and BT sport and both have contacted me (without any prompt from me) and offered. to reduce my payments until live sport returns. They can't provide the product I paid for so have effectively refunded me. Football should be no different - in fact in normal times if a game is postponed due to weather or something match tickets are valid for the rearranged game but a refund is always offered as an option.....so they same should apply. I accept that the ST is valid for the whole season and games may be rearranged within the season without a refund but the key point for me is the season is OVER. I'm sure under the CRA 2015 regulations a refund is a customer right in this case so why the delay?

The whole BCD streaming scenario is a sideshow...it's not what I paid for, if the club want to offer this fine..but the full refund should always be offered as a choice.

As an aside I 'm amazed that so many ordinary working people are willing to chuck their money at a billionaire who chooses to avoid paying any UK tax on his UK income especially when the current situation has highlighted what necessity there is for tax revenue and how the country depends on the taxpayer to fund a free NHS for it's citizens.  The "he's paid enough" doesn't wash with me.

Chuck money at a billionaire? What planet?

He is chucking money at us, subsidising a 'product' in your terms well in excess of what the fans are covering.

 

[BasSavage88]

5 hours ago, Bar BS3 said:

Football is a business. Alway has been in modern times. 

Our owner being a billionaire is irrelevant, in this instance. He put more than enough of his money in. 

For whatever readon, you don't even chip in by buying a season ticket. 

I know who I'm more thankful for having involved with the club. 

Exactly my point. It's a business which can't fulfill what it sold. It's not their fault but it's also not the fault of the customer therefore refunds should be issued.

I don't get a season ticket due to working most Saturdays but get tickets for midweek games when I can get there and using terms like 'chip in' make you sound a bit daft it's either a business or a community club.

[Robbored]

49 minutes ago, lenred said:

Keep seeing this comment about and fair play RR, to you it may not be a huge amount. But to many people with little money that’s a weekly / fortnight’s food shop, or new school uniforms for the kids next school year, or a couple of months travel costs etc etc etc. Some people stretch themselves to watch City. Not everyone is as lucky as to be able to just say they aren’t bothered about a hundred odd quid. 

There was a time when I couldn’t afford a season ticket and had to skimp around all week to get enough together to watch City so I know perfectly well what it’s like to be scrapping by on the breadline but these days I don’t have to. I daresay lots of people of my generation are in a similar position.................

 

[Lanterne Rouge]

I really don`t know why people are getting so impatient and demanding answers to questions that can`t be given at the moment. Once the EFL decide what is to happen then the club can and no doubt will offer a range of options - one of which will have to be (by law I imagine) a refund for a product you have paid for but are not able to receive.

If you want to moan at anyone, moan at the EFL - until they`ve decided what is to happen, every club is in limbo. When they finally make a decision there will no doubt be an action plan that most if not all clubs will follow. There is no way that City, or any other EFL club, is going to jump the gun at this stage.

What will be interesting is to see what ends up happening with League 1 & League 2 clubs and how they go about dealing with the unfinished season - I believe there is expected to be a decision on this next week?

[Bristol Rob]

17 minutes ago, Lanterne Rouge said:

I really don`t know why people are getting so impatient and demanding answers to questions that can`t be given at the moment. Once the EFL decide what is to happen then the club can and no doubt will offer a range of options - one of which will have to be (by law I imagine) a refund for a product you have paid for but are not able to receive.

If you want to moan at anyone, moan at the EFL - until they`ve decided what is to happen, every club is in limbo. When they finally make a decision there will no doubt be an action plan that most if not all clubs will follow. There is no way that City, or any other EFL club, is going to jump the gun at this stage.

What will be interesting is to see what ends up happening with League 1 & League 2 clubs and how they go about dealing with the unfinished season - I believe there is expected to be a decision on this next week?

Moan at the government for their handling of the pandemic before moaning at the EFL.

[phantom]

1 hour ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

Chuck money at a billionaire? What planet?

He is chucking money at us, subsidising a 'product' in your terms well in excess of what the fans are covering.

 

A billionaire investing money or some bloke spending his last penny on the club

Who is making the bigger commitment? 

[Bristol Rob]

3 minutes ago, phantom said:

A billionaire investing money or some bloke spending his last penny on the club

Who is making the bigger commitment? 

To be honest, anyone spending money on football, fan or owner isn't going to get much value for their spend, but we all still do it.

I think 'who is making the biggest mistake' rather than bigger commitment is probably a better question.

[S25loyal]

30 minutes ago, phantom said:

A billionaire investing money or some bloke spending his last penny on the club

Who is making the bigger commitment? 

I’ve often said the same, if you look at a % of what Lansdown puts in a year and a % of what someone puts in for a season ticket if they are on minimum wage you will be surprised. 

A person working 37.5 hours on minimum wage earns about £15k after tax, let’s take an extreme of the middle of the lansdown at £636, that’s 4.24% of all their money for the year.

If lansdown is a billionaire and pumps £100million a year into the club, it’s nowhere near that % . It’s just much larger numbers money wise. 

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, BasSavage88 said:

Exactly my point. It's a business which can't fulfill what it sold. It's not their fault but it's also not the fault of the customer therefore refunds should be issued.

I don't get a season ticket due to working most Saturdays but get tickets for midweek games when I can get there and using terms like 'chip in' make you sound a bit daft it's either a business or a community club.

But no official announcement has been made to confirm the situation, has it..? 

[lenred]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

There was a time when I couldn’t afford a season ticket and had to skimp around all week to get enough together to watch City so I know perfectly well what it’s like to be scrapping by on the breadline but these days I don’t have to. I daresay lots of people of my generation are in a similar position.................

 

I’m sure that they are and as I’ve said before - for those of us to whom a hundred quid doesn’t matter as much, or even at all then that’s great.  But given you’ve not always been in that position then you’ll also understand that when you don’t have the luxury of a decent amount of disposable income then the pennies and the pounds matter a hell of a lot more. A hundred pounds is still a lot of money to a lot of people. Let’s not forget that in all this. 

[Lanterne Rouge]

3 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

But no official announcement has been made to confirm the situation, has it..? 

This. When a decision on the remainder of this season is made, the club will act accordingly and not before (and rightly so). No doubt various options will be offered, one of which will be a refund.

If someone had a holiday/wedding/conference/Christmas party booked for December they wouldn`t be expecting a refund to be offered now, they`d expect the provider to wait and see what the official situation is before offering one.

[CodeRed]

2 hours ago, Robbored said:

It’s quite simple for me to.

I’m not bothered about a refund. For me it would be less than a £100 so not a huge amount. 
What I’d be happy with is should the remaining games be played behind closed doors is free access to a live stream. 

These are vastly unusual times with the first pandemic in a 100 years and we all have to toe the line.

As for SL being a tax exiled billionaire - so what? He ain’t the only one doing  the same, Richard Branson for example.

We have to remember that SL chooses to be involved in our club. He could just sell up and walk away. We could end up with a foreign owner asset stripper.

Be careful what you wish for CR.

 

Branson ??  That's a very low bar for comparison...lives on his own private island, pays no uk tax, and his companies are registered in tax havens in the Caribbean.......but he wants the UK taxpayer to bail him out!!!!

And your second point - SL chose to get involved.....when we had very little debt...and h e has run up huge debts/losses as a result of poor decisions (his decisions) - bad managers, bad signings with t h e current incumbent spending North of £70M and the only manager who looked like he knew what he was doing ( double winner. Promoted, bought Kodjia £2M sold £12M in 12 months) he fired due to his own vanity.   So yes he chucks money in .......to cover losses run up on his watch.

[CodeRed]

2 hours ago, cidercity1987 said:

 

Chuck money at a billionaire? What planet?

He is chucking money at us, subsidising a 'product' in your terms well in excess of what the fans are covering.

 

Chucks money in to cover losses he has run up......think about it 

[Robbored]

1 hour ago, lenred said:

I’m sure that they are and as I’ve said before - for those of us to whom a hundred quid doesn’t matter as much, or even at all then that’s great.  But given you’ve not always been in that position then you’ll also understand that when you don’t have the luxury of a decent amount of disposable income then the pennies and the pounds matter a hell of a lot more. A hundred pounds is still a lot of money to a lot of people. Let’s not forget that in all this. 

It’s not often that I agree with you Len but on this occasion you’re spot on.

[Super]

9 hours ago, Dolman Block B said:

Personally im not bothered about a refund for the last 5 games of this season, and would not expect the club to offer this.

On the other hand i renewed for 2020/21 back when the early bird ticket sales were on and paid £418.00 in full.

Im not willing to lose this even if the club offered to wacth the games on Robins TV.

No chance at all, no interest at all watching on a computer screen.

Why should they not offer a refund for the remaining 5 games? 

[Bristol Rob]

1 hour ago, Super said:

Why should they not offer a refund for the remaining 5 games? 

They might. If they get cancelled/played behind closed doors.

Until the EFL make decision, none of us know.

[lenred]

1 hour ago, Robbored said:

It’s not often that I agree with you Len but on this occasion you’re spot on.

These are strange times indeed mate