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Direct debits deferred for another month


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7 hours ago, phantom said:

@Redemption Did you follow the instructions as given by the club

image.png

I know this is a football forum but Bristol Sport are treating fans of other sports appallingly too. 
Was due to go to a Flyers game in early April - just a one off game for 5 of us costing £120 ish, don’t have season tickets, etc - and the business (Bristol Sport) are flatly refusing to refund tickets for this or any of the cancelled fixtures. Absolutely shocking...seems they are taking customer service advice from Michael O’Leary or Tim Martin.

Like others, I’ve paid for my football season tickets in full and am not sure what they can say at this stage although it would be nice for them to recognise the situation and comment that any necessary decision regarding those who have paid in full, will be made as and when the plan for football to return has been made. Could just be added to the bottom of the press release for DD.

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It is clear and obvious that either the season will be cancelled or will be behind closed doors.

I don't understand why more clubs aren't at least refunding for this season considering that isn't questionable, I know Manchester United have. I know they have a lot more money but considering they treat us as customers with above inflation price rises every year then I think they should follow suit.

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1 hour ago, MarkDavis1986 said:

I don't understand why more clubs aren't at least refunding for this season considering that isn't questionable, I know Manchester United have. 

Have they? 

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I’m not really sure what those who have paid in full for their ST want the club to say? I’ve seen ‘be acknowledged’ mentioned, how can they possibly say anything when no one knows when/if next will happen yet? They haven’t even decided  how this one will finish yet! Pretty sure as soon as anything is decided they will let you know.

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1 hour ago, BCFC11 said:

I’m not really sure what those who have paid in full for their ST want the club to say? I’ve seen ‘be acknowledged’ mentioned, how can they possibly say anything when no one knows when/if next will happen yet? They haven’t even decided  how this one will finish yet! Pretty sure as soon as anything is decided they will let you know.

100% guarantee that this season will be played out behind closed doors, that's if it has a conclusion. Therefore those that have paid in advance to see games that have not been played, should be refunded their outlay, pro rata. If they then decide to show the games live on TV, then everyone will have the chance to purchase or not, a package to see those games.

At the moment and I understand it's difficult to know exactly what format the season will take, the club have money deposited in advance ticket sales that, those that have purchased could invest or earn interest on. Relatively small amounts individually I know but, collectively that represents a lot of money (£1-£1.5M which presumably the club are reinvesting and making profits on. I understand the argument that the club are losing money, that's not the point. Those investing in the club are making money elsewhere in order to invest in the club, so effectively that money is partly the money that people have paid in advance, for matches which will not be played.

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Personally, if it helps the club out I would forego a refund on the remaining games of this season if it’s cancelled. My choice, I can afford it. But it would really boil my pash if the games are played behind closed doors or re-sold to tv for a bigger financial gain. 

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34 minutes ago, Rich said:

100% guarantee that this season will be played out behind closed doors, that's if it has a conclusion. Therefore those that have paid in advance to see games that have not been played, should be refunded their outlay, pro rata. If they then decide to show the games live on TV, then everyone will have the chance to purchase or not, a package to see those games.

At the moment and I understand it's difficult to know exactly what format the season will take, the club have money deposited in advance ticket sales that, those that have purchased could invest or earn interest on. Relatively small amounts individually I know but, collectively that represents a lot of money (£1-£1.5M which presumably the club are reinvesting and making profits on. I understand the argument that the club are losing money, that's not the point. Those investing in the club are making money elsewhere in order to invest in the club, so effectively that money is partly the money that people have paid in advance, for matches which will not be played.

What about those who are happy for the club to keep the money?!

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20 minutes ago, Pieman said:

Personally, if it helps the club out I would forego a refund on the remaining games of this season if it’s cancelled. My choice, I can afford it. But it would really boil my pash if the games are played behind closed doors or re-sold to tv for a bigger financial gain. 

You`ll get options I reckon - refund (required by law I imagine), free subs to Robins TV and stuff like that.

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38 minutes ago, Pieman said:

Personally, if it helps the club out I would forego a refund on the remaining games of this season if it’s cancelled. My choice, I can afford it. But it would really boil my pash if the games are played behind closed doors or re-sold to tv for a bigger financial gain. 

Initially I was in the same camp as you as I’m fortunate enough to also forego a refund...but I’ve since changed my mind.

The club, business, operating company (call them want you will) aren’t showing any thought or empathy for anyone but themselves. There are many out there who aren’t as fortunate as us and that’s what should form the basis of their actions; this though is far from their minds. Several people will have bought tickets for individuals matches and in groups costing a fair bit...watching football at Ashton Gate without a season ticket isn’t cheap and they aren’t being given the option of a refund!

Many companies are doing what’s ‘right’ for their customers, issuing refunds, payment holidays etc, but as far as I can tell Bristol Sport aren’t doing a damn thing - they aspire to be a community club remember yet they really don’t care about their ‘customers’, what they’re currently going through or what this money could do for them...for that reason I’ll take my refund remembering I’m just a customer, not a fan!

It’s this reason I’ve had enough of the way the ‘club’ is being managed, we’re not valued customers at all, just customers or pound signs.  I’ll therefore consider any future purchases carefully as I’m really not prepared to do business or give my money to such a company. If this were any other company how many of you would tell them to sod off and would take your custom elsewhere?

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37 minutes ago, Betty Swallocks said:

What about those who are happy for the club to keep the money?!

If they're given the option, that's up to them, in my case that'd be about £135.  Having the option might be nice for some people. I'm only commenting on this post, personally just waiting to see what happens, not intentionally rocking the boat.

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10 hours ago, Rich said:

100% guarantee that this season will be played out behind closed doors, that's if it has a conclusion. Therefore those that have paid in advance to see games that have not been played, should be refunded their outlay, pro rata. If they then decide to show the games live on TV, then everyone will have the chance to purchase or not, a package to see those games.

At the moment and I understand it's difficult to know exactly what format the season will take, the club have money deposited in advance ticket sales that, those that have purchased could invest or earn interest on. Relatively small amounts individually I know but, collectively that represents a lot of money (£1-£1.5M which presumably the club are reinvesting and making profits on. I understand the argument that the club are losing money, that's not the point. Those investing in the club are making money elsewhere in order to invest in the club, so effectively that money is partly the money that people have paid in advance, for matches which will not be played.

you know we lose millions every year, 100s of thousands every week?

There isn't going to be a mythical pot of supporters cash resting in an equally mythical high interest deposit account.

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11 hours ago, WestonRobin said:

Initially I was in the same camp as you as I’m fortunate enough to also forego a refund...but I’ve since changed my mind.

The club, business, operating company (call them want you will) aren’t showing any thought or empathy for anyone but themselves. There are many out there who aren’t as fortunate as us and that’s what should form the basis of their actions; this though is far from their minds. Several people will have bought tickets for individuals matches and in groups costing a fair bit...watching football at Ashton Gate without a season ticket isn’t cheap and they aren’t being given the option of a refund!

Many companies are doing what’s ‘right’ for their customers, issuing refunds, payment holidays etc, but as far as I can tell Bristol Sport aren’t doing a damn thing - they aspire to be a community club remember yet they really don’t care about their ‘customers’, what they’re currently going through or what this money could do for them...for that reason I’ll take my refund remembering I’m just a customer, not a fan!

It’s this reason I’ve had enough of the way the ‘club’ is being managed, we’re not valued customers at all, just customers or pound signs.  I’ll therefore consider any future purchases carefully as I’m really not prepared to do business or give my money to such a company. If this were any other company how many of you would tell them to sod off and would take your custom elsewhere?

You say that Bristol Sport aren't doing a damn thing where in fact the title of this thread would imply they are doing at least one damn thing

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4 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

you know we lose millions every year, 100s of thousands every week?

There isn't going to be a mythical pot of supporters cash resting in an equally mythical high interest deposit account.

Can't agree with this at all.

We do lose money, that's not the supporters doing. We are the one's who have paid, bought STs merchandise food drink shirts etc. We do our bit.

Stephen Lansdown owns the club, ground, land, the buildings around the stadium, the training ground. He sets the policy, direction and budget, He appoints the manager CEO and signs off on all expenditure and crucially transfer fees. He has chosen the path and the financiall philosophy we follow, he created the Bristol Sport model.

He is a very wealthy billionaire and runs the club as he wishes. The club loses money because it (he)  spends more than the income it receives.. His choice.

I have no problem with SL at all but I'm certainly not forgoing a refund for a product that I bought but is now not going to be available - not the club's fault, but not mine either.   SL recently sold just 2.2%  of his HL shareholding and received £180 million for them,  leaving him with just the £9,000,000,000 in reserve - plus of course his other assets.

So the money for refunds shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

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4 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

you know we lose millions every year, 100s of thousands every week?

There isn't going to be a mythical pot of supporters cash resting in an equally mythical high interest deposit account.

I thought I'd explained that in my final paragraph but, obviously not clear enough for you.  CodeRed has given an even better explanation in the above post.

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47 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Can't agree with this at all.

We do lose money, that's not the supporters doing. We are the one's who have paid, bought STs merchandise food drink shirts etc. We do our bit.

Stephen Lansdown owns the club, ground, land, the buildings around the stadium, the training ground. He sets the policy, direction and budget, He appoints the manager CEO and signs off on all expenditure and crucially transfer fees. He has chosen the path and the financiall philosophy we follow, he created the Bristol Sport model.

He is a very wealthy billionaire and runs the club as he wishes. The club loses money because it (he)  spends more than the income it receives.. His choice.

I have no problem with SL at all but I'm certainly not forgoing a refund for a product that I bought but is now not going to be available - not the club's fault, but not mine either.   SL recently sold just 2.2%  of his HL shareholding and received £180 million for them,  leaving him with just the £9,000,000,000 in reserve - plus of course his other assets.

So the money for refunds shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

I'm not sure if some of these figures are quite right. 

I've been a critic over the lack of detail on pro rata refunds and non topping up of furloughed staff. Plus at times, the furlough in general but I'm unsure of the figures here.

His most  recent wealth, net worth was stated at £1.35bn. I always thought it was somewhat higher!

Without looking in depth, I'm unsure if it's 'only' money or all assets, total worth included within..

£160m sale price for 2.2%. This is Money suggests his remaining ownership is 6.5% of HL shares.

You are right that he runs the club as he sees fit.

I would defend the losses however simply because it is in many respects the price of competing at this level.

That said Preston can but not always will keep losses relatively low, make small profits Brentford too and Millwall at times- Sheffield United well promotion bonuses which wouldn't have been applicable otherwise was a large reason for their loss. 

However in terms of these positve figures, most if not all will rely on a steady stream of profits from transfers to keep their books okay.

We seem to have quite high overheads however. The season of the Cup run, the season we made a record revenue and certainly in modern times also brought about a record loss!!

If not for the profit on transfers last season, the same would've happened again. Those transfers were to our great credit, so much so that we made A £10-11m profit IIRC.

Seems to me thay the only way UK which we'll consistently profit or break even is:

A) PL football. 

Or

B) Upper end League One, which also combined with Cup runs, saleable assets, our strong academy...

Maybe C) A bit of a yoyo between upper League One and lower middle of Championship.

B) and C) Aren't ideal on the pitch at all but coulf be okay off it, and financially even more so when combined with our off field revenue streams on one hand and the lower cost of the division on the other. Our strong academy wouldn't fade away, neither would potential for Cup runs.

This divison is just a money pit though.

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24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I'm not sure if some of these figures are quite right. 

I've been a critic over the lack of detail on pro rata refunds and non topping up of furloughed staff. Plus at times, the furlough in general but I'm unsure of the figures here.

His most  recent wealth, net worth was stated at £1.35bn. I always thought it was somewhat higher!

Without looking in depth, I'm unsure if it's 'only' money or all assets, total worth included within..

£160m sale price for 2.2%. This is Money suggests his remaining ownership is 6.5% of HL shares.

You are right that he runs the club as he sees fit.

I would defend the losses however simply because it is in many respects the price of competing at this level.

That said Preston can but not always will keep losses relatively low, make small profits Brentford too and Millwall at times- Sheffield United well promotion bonuses which wouldn't have been applicable otherwise was a large reason for their loss. 

However in terms of these positve figures, most if not all will rely on a steady stream of profits from transfers to keep their books okay.

We seem to have quite high overheads however. The season of the Cup run, the season we made a record revenue and certainly in modern times also brought about a record loss!!

If not for the profit on transfers last season, the same would've happened again. Those transfers were to our great credit, so much so that we made A £10-11m profit IIRC.

Seems to me thay the only way UK which we'll consistently profit or break even is:

A) PL football. 

Or

B) Upper end League One, which also combined with Cup runs, saleable assets, our strong academy...

Maybe C) A bit of a yoyo between upper League One and lower middle of Championship.

B) and C) Aren't ideal on the pitch at all but coulf be okay off it, and financially even more so when combined with our off field revenue streams on one hand and the lower cost of the division on the other. Our strong academy wouldn't fade away, neither would potential for Cup runs.

This divison is just a money pit though.

You're right about the nett worth, It was (lazily it seems now) reported in the sports news that  £160M was 2.2% of his holding. However this article seems more accurate

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-30/billionaire-sells-more-lansdown-stock-to-spread-the-risk

The relevant bit

"A Guernsey-based company that Lansdown controls sold 160 million pounds ($202 million) of shares of Hargreaves Lansdown in an accelerated offering through Barclays Plc, according to terms seen by Bloomberg. He has sold more than $550 million of stock over the past five years, leaving him with a 7% stake worth about $600 million.“It’s good financial planning,” said Lansdown, who also holds investments in sports, leisure and private equity. “You don’t want to have all your eggs in one basket.”

The points I made still stand and I was going to include the comparison to Preston and Millwall - who sit one place above and one place below us respectively - but didn't want to make my already long winded post even more so! But here are 2 clubs in exactly the same place as us on the pitch with considerably less expenditure. You can arguably say they are better run . Brentford certainly are and have also managed to find some land in central London and deliver a new stadium as well as being in the  Play off position with opportunity to progress to the PL.

 

 

 

 

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On 22/05/2020 at 09:13, Big C said:

You say that Bristol Sport aren't doing a damn thing where in fact the title of this thread would imply they are doing at least one damn thing

I wouldn’t class not taking payment for a product they cant guarantee to provide as doing anything.

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22 hours ago, CodeRed said:

Can't agree with this at all.

We do lose money, that's not the supporters doing. We are the one's who have paid, bought STs merchandise food drink shirts etc. We do our bit.

Stephen Lansdown owns the club, ground, land, the buildings around the stadium, the training ground. He sets the policy, direction and budget, He appoints the manager CEO and signs off on all expenditure and crucially transfer fees. He has chosen the path and the financiall philosophy we follow, he created the Bristol Sport model.

He is a very wealthy billionaire and runs the club as he wishes. The club loses money because it (he)  spends more than the income it receives.. His choice.

I have no problem with SL at all but I'm certainly not forgoing a refund for a product that I bought but is now not going to be available - not the club's fault, but not mine either.   SL recently sold just 2.2%  of his HL shareholding and received £180 million for them,  leaving him with just the £9,000,000,000 in reserve - plus of course his other assets.

So the money for refunds shouldn't be too hard to find.

 

I agree to the end of your post that some sort of compensation will have to be forthcoming; I cannot see the club having a choice as too many fans will demand it.

But I do not agree at all with your opening paragraphs.

SL has provided a football team that makes a loss and yes he can control that BUT I can only think of 2 options for him to do that :-

1. stop investing so much in the squad and work within tighter constraints meaning we will at best have a team more likely to spend future seasons in the bottom half of the league OR 

2. charge fans a good 50 to 75% more for our tickets, add a few quid to merchandise etc etc to keep a team that can maybe challenge at the top end

Neither option is appealing to me and doubtless thousands of others so we are at status quo where we EXPECT SL to continue in this way yet we are unwilling to suck it up a bit and suffer some of the loss?

He may have many many millions but he losing decent chunks on our behalf as a driven fan himself so criticism of his model is disrespectful imo.

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7 hours ago, Meh said:

I agree to the end of your post that some sort of compensation will have to be forthcoming; I cannot see the club having a choice as too many fans will demand it.

But I do not agree at all with your opening paragraphs.

SL has provided a football team that makes a loss and yes he can control that BUT I can only think of 2 options for him to do that :-

1. stop investing so much in the squad and work within tighter constraints meaning we will at best have a team more likely to spend future seasons in the bottom half of the league OR 

2. charge fans a good 50 to 75% more for our tickets, add a few quid to merchandise etc etc to keep a team that can maybe challenge at the top end

Neither option is appealing to me and doubtless thousands of others so we are at status quo where we EXPECT SL to continue in this way yet we are unwilling to suck it up a bit and suffer some of the loss?

He may have many many millions but he losing decent chunks on our behalf as a driven fan himself so criticism of his model is disrespectful imo.

There are other options. 

1. Utilize the squad to it's fullest, or have a smaller squad. It's all about how the assets are used.

2. Don't purchase excess players, use the academy and supplement that with experienced players.

We seem to be doing both at present, building an academy and buying expensive players. Other clubs have progressed more than we have, as mentioned in previous posts, yet we just seem to progress by throwing shed loads of cash at the situation. Thank goodness we've got lucky with some of our sales. I think it's generally agreed that we've wasted loads of money on players in recent years which might have been better invested, I know, with hindsight. 

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8 hours ago, Meh said:

I agree to the end of your post that some sort of compensation will have to be forthcoming; I cannot see the club having a choice as too many fans will demand it.

But I do not agree at all with your opening paragraphs.

SL has provided a football team that makes a loss and yes he can control that BUT I can only think of 2 options for him to do that :-

1. stop investing so much in the squad and work within tighter constraints meaning we will at best have a team more likely to spend future seasons in the bottom half of the league OR 

2. charge fans a good 50 to 75% more for our tickets, add a few quid to merchandise etc etc to keep a team that can maybe challenge at the top end

Neither option is appealing to me and doubtless thousands of others so we are at status quo where we EXPECT SL to continue in this way yet we are unwilling to suck it up a bit and suffer some of the loss?

He may have many many millions but he losing decent chunks on our behalf as a driven fan himself so criticism of his model is disrespectful imo.

I'm not criticising his model......just his execution. I applaud and respect the money he puts in but it doesn't mean his decisions are all good . I don't want to get into the LJ discussion again but it's clear he wasn't ready for this job yet  and in order to "back his man" he has thrown too much money at t h e playing side, over £70m , when in the examples I've shown it's possible to spend less - but wiser - to get the same end.

Preston Millwall Sheffield Utd Brentford. etc have all achieved or bettered our results whist spending less. 

I know some will reply with at least he's not Vincent Tan or the Al Quadis but that's a very low bar.

 

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22 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I'm not criticising his model......just his execution. I applaud and respect the money he puts in but it doesn't mean his decisions are all good . I don't want to get into the LJ discussion again but it's clear he wasn't ready for this job yet  and in order to "back his man" he has thrown too much money at t h e playing side, over £70m , when in the examples I've shown it's possible to spend less - but wiser - to get the same end.

Preston Millwall Sheffield Utd Brentford. etc have all achieved or bettered our results whist spending less. 

I know some will reply with at least he's not Vincent Tan or the Al Quadis but that's a very low bar.

 

Brentford started their strategy before we implemented ours.

They are a year or two ahead of us in that regard.

After reaching the playoffs in their first season up, their highest finish in the 4 completed seasons since is 9th.

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21 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Brentford started their strategy before we implemented ours.

They are a year or two ahead of us in that regard.

After reaching the playoffs in their first season up, their highest finish in the 4 completed seasons since is 9th.

I would say we started our strategy - the 5 pillars - in 2012/3 under SOD.

Our final positions since arriving in the Championship have been 18,17,11,8, .......currently 7th. Brentford's  5 Play Off,, 9, 10 ,9 ,11,.....currently 4th

2 play off spots and higher average position v our lower ave. position and no play off finish says they're doing better with less expenditure.

I stand by my point that for the money spent we should have done better, and we've been hampered by SL's  reluctance to see past LJ to lead our progress. 

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10 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I would say we started our strategy - the 5 pillars - in 2012/3 under SOD.

Our final positions since arriving in the Championship have been 18,17,11,8, .......currently 7th. Brentford's  5 Play Off,, 9, 10 ,9 ,11,.....currently 4th

2 play off spots and higher average position v our lower ave. position and no play off finish says they're doing better with less expenditure.

I stand by my point that for the money spent we should have done better, and we've been hampered by SL's  reluctance to see past LJ to lead our progress. 

You can turn it on its head though- we have done quite a bit better than a number of sides who posted significant losses, or who played the system to try and stave off FFP.

Or both, in some cases.

Nonetheless, Brentford have a fantastic system of identifying talent it seems- and getting top dollar for it. We have some similarities but don't need to replicate their model exactly due to the differences in turnover.

I also think their strong tactical identity- 4-3-3 under Frank and definitely best suited- is a big help and something similar would suit us IMO- they seem very skilful, quite prolific yhet have the balance to be fairly sound at the back too.

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12 hours ago, CodeRed said:

I would say we started our strategy - the 5 pillars - in 2012/3 under SOD.

Our final positions since arriving in the Championship have been 18,17,11,8, .......currently 7th. Brentford's  5 Play Off,, 9, 10 ,9 ,11,.....currently 4th

2 play off spots and higher average position v our lower ave. position and no play off finish says they're doing better with less expenditure.

I stand by my point that for the money spent we should have done better, and we've been hampered by SL's  reluctance to see past LJ to lead our progress. 

The 5 pillars were implemented after our relegation.

They've had 1 playoff spot, as this season hasn't finished.

 

Other than that your post isn't too bad.

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33 minutes ago, wayne allisons tongues said:

Will these deferrals cause problems down the line.

Normally all paid by February but now we are looking at April.

When do you sell the following years tickets if your still paying for that years.

Only so much the club can do I suppose.

I guess that those paying by DD had already budgeted for the cash being taken.

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Will the club defer direct debits again or should we be expecting payment to be taken, all gone very quiet again from the club. 

With social distancing still required it seems difficult to see how crowds can return anytime soon.

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