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Refund on ST ?


westonred

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Technically I believe they are non refundable. It's been my understanding anyway.

However, in a time of global pandemic, income hits, sacrifice that surely will risk ill will, perhaps even alienation of a variety of fans.

More problematic by far from a logistical angle is the 2020-21 season- how many have already purchased these I wonder?

Not read this myself yet but believe it maybe of use- title looks promising for a start.

Edit. Was about ST's but not necessarily this.

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1 minute ago, JonDolman said:

I thought season tickets are non refundable. Might be wrong about that, but that's what I was told.

If you,change your mind, they move a game and so on. But surely not if they just don't play the games at all. A contract that required me to pay something, and you to say that you'll do you best to provide the service but won't refund if you don't would, if nothing else, be a breach of the fair terms in consumer contracts legislation. IMHO.

Im not saying I want a refund; personally I'm not wanting anything back on this season's but Injust can't see how a club can refuse to make the offer. 

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Here we go, from the website:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/season-cards-201920-faqs/

Quote
  1. Can I get a refund on my season card if I cancel it?

No. Season cards are non-refundable so there will be no refunds on season cards should you choose to cancel. (Please see terms and conditions).

Nothing specific about an inabillity to attend games, so far as I can see through such matters- well who can predict a pandemic after all?!

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17 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I thought season tickets are non refundable. Might be wrong about that, but that's what I was told.

only if you don't go any game rescheduled you are able to attend if you can't go cos they don't let you in unless you are banned their  t&c's don't say they won't pay

ps life is to short to read small print and if I had bothered to read every bit of small print it would make war and peace look like a quatrain.

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8 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here we go, from the website:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/season-cards-201920-faqs/

Nothing specific about an inabillity to attend games, so far as I can see through such matters- well who can predict a pandemic after all?!

As I said earlier though, that's talking about when "you" (i.e. the season ticket holder) choose to cancel it. So you can't decide half way through the season to give it back and get a refund. Nothing about what happens if the club choose to cancel it.

Bear in mind that what the Consumer Credit Act does is to say that any contractual term is invalid if it's unfair, so just because a contract says something doesn't mean it's legal.

The other interesting angle is that the same legislation (I think) gives the consumer the right to go to a credit card company and ask the more to refund if the service isn't provided. The law says, in effect, that if you buy with a credit card then you're buying off the credit card company. Now that would be an interesting route for someone to go down...!

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7 minutes ago, italian dave said:

As I said earlier though, that's talking about when "you" (i.e. the season ticket holder) choose to cancel it. So you can't decide half way through the season to give it back and get a refund. Nothing about what happens if the club choose to cancel it.

Bear in mind that what the Consumer Credit Act does is to say that any contractual term is invalid if it's unfair, so just because a contract says something doesn't mean it's legal.

The other interesting angle is that the same legislation (I think) gives the consumer the right to go to a credit card company and ask the more to refund if the service isn't provided. The law says, in effect, that if you buy with a credit card then you're buying off the credit card company. Now that would be an interesting route for someone to go down...!

Club are kicking the can down the road anyway- we all surely, surely know- us, them, everyone that games won't have fans so they are looking to delay a decision.

It'd be a genuinely interesting test case- I've always assumed a club would be covered in this scenario for the current season but maybe some fan of some club will test it!

Perhaps Preston given they have taken the bold step at this stage.

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16 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Club are kicking the can down the road anyway- we all surely, surely know- us, them, everyone that games won't have fans so they are looking to delay a decision.

It'd be a genuinely interesting test case- I've always assumed a club would be covered in this scenario for the current season but maybe some fan of some club will test it!

Perhaps Preston given they have taken the bold step at this stage.

For sure, and in fairness I suppose that until they decide what's going to happen to the rest of the season then they can't really consider all the options anyway. If they don't play all the games, or there's some problem with Sky, the offering the 'watch on player for free' option may not be there. 

As you say, no chance of anyone attending this season. I'd have thought there's a big question mark over next season too, and that's more interesting. There has to be a possibility of at least some of next season being behind closed doors too, and I'm not sure I'm feeling quite as laid back about not getting a refund on that one! 

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19 minutes ago, italian dave said:

As I said earlier though, that's talking about when "you" (i.e. the season ticket holder) choose to cancel it. So you can't decide half way through the season to give it back and get a refund. Nothing about what happens if the club choose to cancel it.

Bear in mind that what the Consumer Credit Act does is to say that any contractual term is invalid if it's unfair, so just because a contract says something doesn't mean it's legal.

The other interesting angle is that the same legislation (I think) gives the consumer the right to go to a credit card company and ask the more to refund if the service isn't provided. The law says, in effect, that if you buy with a credit card then you're buying off the credit card company. Now that would be an interesting route for someone to go down...!

Eexactly this - if the club adopt the Preston Position I will email the club and ask for a refund.....as they haven't fulfilled the contract and supplied what I paid for .......if I don't get one I will contact my credit card co and claim a refund under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. This is all quite straightforward and happens all the time.

The fact that Preston - and only Preston at the moment in fairness - are saying we won't refund because we are prioritising paying wages to millionaires and paying to test these millionaires so they can play games that you cannot attend even though you paid for them......is laughable.

I accept BCFC have not made any such decision a n d we may be pleasantly surprised but IF they follow Preston I'm sure a Sect. 75  refund can be obtained as the law dictates...providing payment was made by CC, if not it's a tougher fight.

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28 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

Eexactly this - if the club adopt the Preston Position I will email the club and ask for a refund.....as they haven't fulfilled the contract and supplied what I paid for .......if I don't get one I will contact my credit card co and claim a refund under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. This is all quite straightforward and happens all the time.

The fact that Preston - and only Preston at the moment in fairness - are saying we won't refund because we are prioritising paying wages to millionaires and paying to test these millionaires so they can play games that you cannot attend even though you paid for them......is laughable.

I accept BCFC have not made any such decision a n d we may be pleasantly surprised but IF they follow Preston I'm sure a Sect. 75  refund can be obtained as the law dictates...providing payment was made by CC, if not it's a tougher fight.

Section 25 I thought only protects you if a retailer or organisation goes bankrupt. It also only covers you for the cost of one ticket purchased and in this case a S/T. So if you purchased four S/T on your c/card you may only get your money back for one of them.  The only way you can beet this is if the tickets were purchased individually. 

There would be millions of people worlds wide in similar situations at the moment with tickets purchased, holidays cancelled, air lines gone bust etc with the Coronavirus pandemic. The restrictions put on companies like football clubs not being able to play and S/T holders not being able to attend is in no way the clubs fault as the restrictions are government restrictions and the law. 

If it was escalated a court would throw it out as the pandemic would over ride it. I would think such a claim as if a club, retailer, airline, travel agent or whatever Would be in a stronger position to state any contract that was in place would be impossible ethically and safely to for fill. 

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Just an additional point following my post above re: CCA Section 75 refunds.

Which magazine have published a guide to consumers rights when events are cancelled or postponed because of COVID-19.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/coronavirus-outbreak-cancelled-or-postponed-events-can-i-get-my-money-back/

The advice is that yes customers are legally entitled to refunds directly from the company you bought the event from, and further confirms as well that Section 75 refunds can be obtained via the credit card co if applicable in the last resort.....as I said above.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, City oz said:

Section 25 I thought only protects you if a retailer or organisation goes bankrupt. It also only covers you for the cost of one ticket purchased and in this case a S/T. So if you purchased four S/T on your c/card you may only get your money back for one of them.  The only way you can beet this is if the tickets were purchased individually. 

There would be millions of people worlds wide in similar situations at the moment with tickets purchased, holidays cancelled, air lines gone bust etc with the Coronavirus pandemic. The restrictions put on companies like football clubs not being able to play and S/T holders not being able to attend is in no way the clubs fault as the restrictions are government restrictions and the law. 

If it was escalated a court would throw it out as the pandemic would over ride it. I would think such a claim as if a club, retailer, airline, travel agent or whatever Would be in a stronger position to state any contract that was in place would be impossible ethically and safely to for fill. 

No you're completely wrong.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/coronavirus-outbreak-cancelled-or-postponed-events-can-i-get-my-money-back/

Which magazine says a refund is the consumer right in COVID-19 cases.

And Section 75 is not just when companies go bankrupt

quote

Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the retailer or trader. This means it is just as responsible as the retailer or trader for the goods or service supplied, allowing you to also put your claim to the credit card company.

Courts would only "throw it out" if the law dictates. It doesn't - the law is quite clear.

 

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29 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

No you're completely wrong.

https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/05/coronavirus-outbreak-cancelled-or-postponed-events-can-i-get-my-money-back/

Which magazine says a refund is the consumer right in COVID-19 cases.

And Section 75 is not just when companies go bankrupt

quote

Under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the credit card company is jointly and severally liable for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the retailer or trader. This means it is just as responsible as the retailer or trader for the goods or service supplied, allowing you to also put your claim to the credit card company.

Courts would only "throw it out" if the law dictates. It doesn't - the law is quite clear.

 

Lets hope you get your money back then. 

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It’s clear the club arnt going to offer refunds, wouldn’t be surprised if they have the Bristol sport wall of silence and fail to mention it.

They are banking on fans sense of loyalty not to ask for them, people would with any other sort of entertainment or membership. 

 

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14 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

It’s clear the club arnt going to offer refunds, wouldn’t be surprised if they have the Bristol sport wall of silence and fail to mention it.

They are banking on fans sense of loyalty not to ask for them, people would with any other sort of entertainment or membership. 

 

Wall of silence? Clear the club aren't going to offer refunds? 

I think you are forgetting that lots of people have already received unintentionally a refund where they were testing the system. 

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21 minutes ago, ITK..... said:

Wall of silence? Clear the club aren't going to offer refunds? 

I think you are forgetting that lots of people have already received unintentionally a refund where they were testing the system. 

Yes wall of silence, as in I’ll be amazed if there is ever a statement about it. 

Its clear the games are not going to be played in front of fans so why not offer refunds for those games?

You are right, they messed up IT wise yet again, SOME fans received a refund worth 1 game. 

If you had gym membership you would had likely to have cancelled, if you had tickets to gigs you would have got your money back, holidays etc. Football is massive money driven but clubs are happy holding onto people’s money from tickets instead of offering refunds. 

 

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Lets face it from my earlier threads it is unlikely any one will get back the original amount of Money  they out laid either it be for season tickets, airline flights, holidays, concert tickets, private medial appointments due the out break of corona virus and further implications around Covet 19. Most organisations either a football club In the Championship or a locaL village kick about football team out in the sticks are all suffering financially in some way. What we have though with BCFC is a relatively prosperous club and a fantastic approach to having Premiership football Back at Ashton Gate in either 2021 or 2022. They need to keep building with the quality of players they currently have and also have the ability to be pro active and be competitive in future transfer markets. I’m sure they will refund some kind of money back in different ways to the loyal supporters. You all have to agree the last three or four months and the events around the world no one would have even dreamed of and here we have a few on OTIB expressing there frustrations that they are owed something back from BCFC. I take on board that for most most city supporters budget year in and year out for season tickets or even enough money to attend the next home game and if fortunate enough money in their pockets to travel to an away game. Times have changed and there are hardships every where since this dreaded disease. There will be changes going forward on how a product is purchased going forward especially paid by c/Card as there are thousands out of pocket. My personal opinion and willing to be shouted down on this is that every one that purchased a ticket  In any way sort or form need to think that the covet 19 effect no organisation or company would be expected to refund in full. In fact if most companies continued or if football clubs tried to find a loop hole around government restrictions this to me is breaking the law and would be liable for possible prosecution.

Try and be positive and looks look forward to bristol city playing in the prem . COYR.

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9 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Here we go, from the website:

https://www.bcfc.co.uk/news/season-cards-201920-faqs/

Nothing specific about an inabillity to attend games, so far as I can see through such matters- well who can predict a pandemic after all?!

The key words are:

should you choose to cancel

In my view all football clubs should have offered refunds by now. The games were due to have been completed 2 weeks ago, and they haven't been, and not only that, it is clear that if the games are played there will be no spectators.

Furloughed workers are receiving 80% to a maximum of £2,500 per month.

Owner managed company directors are being paid typically around £560 per month, or in a lot of cases nothing at all.

Self Employed are receiving a maximum of £2,500 per month and, if their earnings were greater than £50k per annum, they are being paid nothing.

Because footballers have fixed contracts none of those terms don't apply, but in my view every football club should have requested all of their players to voluntarily accept similar terms to the rest of the country, and publicize which ones did and didn't.

I personally think anyone who is content for footballers to be paid their wages in full at this time must be mad.

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Maybe they are waiting to find out if games are going to be shown on Sky and they will receive money for that as it could be to view them you need to be a Sports subscriber and they want to be able to offer fans that instead of a straight refund. Could be something like that could work out cheaper for the club and the fans.

Who knows. Just bide your time.

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10 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said:

Maybe they are waiting to find out if games are going to be shown on Sky and they will receive money for that as it could be to view them you need to be a Sports subscriber and they want to be able to offer fans that instead of a straight refund. Could be something like that could work out cheaper for the club and the fans.

Who knows. Just bide your time.

A lot of fans have no interest in watching games on tv. 

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50 minutes ago, S25loyal said:

Yes wall of silence, as in I’ll be amazed if there is ever a statement about it. 

Its clear the games are not going to be played in front of fans so why not offer refunds for those games?

You are right, they messed up IT wise yet again, SOME fans received a refund worth 1 game. 

If you had gym membership you would had likely to have cancelled, if you had tickets to gigs you would have got your money back, holidays etc. Football is massive money driven but clubs are happy holding onto people’s money from tickets instead of offering refunds. 

 

I'm happy for club to keep my money from this seasons S/T. This has got club hard. 

Next season however I've already shelled out £500 plus for mine and kids but would expect something to be put in place in way of refunds of we can't attend.

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I think football clubs are going to be in a position where they will have to offer refunds. Ultimately, they haven't got close to performing their end of the bargain. There's no way that covid can be cited, as a blanket justification, for not performing a contract - the country would be in absolute chaos if all tenants, employers etc. etc. did exactly what they wanted where performance of their respective contract was concerned (I am sure some will be attempting to do just this and others will enjoy the benefit of bespoke government regs). Some terms & conditions/contracts may well include 'force majeure' clauses, but that would be a matter for the courts to adjudicate on whether they 'bite' if parties not in agreement and it is not to be unilaterally relied upon by one party to the agreement. In essence, and whatever the current circumstances re the virus, it comes down to basic fairness - if one party, the fan, has shelled out in total (£500?) and the other party, the football club, has not provided the service (the opportunity to watch 23 games in person) then it's not fair for the consumer/fan not to receive some form of recompense to recognise that loss of the service, the loss of which has in noway been caused by the consumer.

Are Preston, for instance, saying that if the season had been curtailed after one game, and the rest were behind closed doors - there still would be no refunds? Consumers could not have foreseen what would happen this season at the outset, when they parted with their £££. 

I think, the best advice, as outlined above is to bide one's time. 

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37 minutes ago, GlastonburyRed said:

I think football clubs are going to be in a position where they will have to offer refunds. Ultimately, they haven't got close to performing their end of the bargain. There's no way that covid can be cited, as a blanket justification, for not performing a contract - the country would be in absolute chaos if all tenants, employers etc. etc. did exactly what they wanted where performance of their respective contract was concerned (I am sure some will be attempting to do just this and others will enjoy the benefit of bespoke government regs). Some terms & conditions/contracts may well include 'force majeure' clauses, but that would be a matter for the courts to adjudicate on whether they 'bite' if parties not in agreement and it is not to be unilaterally relied upon by one party to the agreement. In essence, and whatever the current circumstances re the virus, it comes down to basic fairness - if one party, the fan, has shelled out in total (£500?) and the other party, the football club, has not provided the service (the opportunity to watch 23 games in person) then it's not fair for the consumer/fan not to receive some form of recompense to recognise that loss of the service, the loss of which has in noway been caused by the consumer.

Are Preston, for instance, saying that if the season had been curtailed after one game, and the rest were behind closed doors - there still would be no refunds? Consumers could not have foreseen what would happen this season at the outset, when they parted with their £££. 

I think, the best advice, as outlined above is to bide one's time. 

you're absolutely correct,  the law stands until it is repealed or amended by government. Consumer law is unchanged and remains as it was prior to covid. The notion articulated by some that companies can simply ignore it, plead poverty, or change terms and be justified because "no one saw it coming" is laughable.

The correct stance by any football club (or business) would be to approach customers and work together for a solution. Many have said they are willing to forgo a refund or accept a free tv stream and this should be an option....but those that need or wish for refunds should get them as it is their right.  The Preston statement was extremely arrogant and took no account of their fans individual circumstances, saying in effect we need it more than you ( the 'need' being to continue paying players their 20 grand a week in full)

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2 hours ago, S25loyal said:

Yes wall of silence, as in I’ll be amazed if there is ever a statement about it. 

Its clear the games are not going to be played in front of fans so why not offer refunds for those games?

You are right, they messed up IT wise yet again, SOME fans received a refund worth 1 game. 

If you had gym membership you would had likely to have cancelled, if you had tickets to gigs you would have got your money back, holidays etc. Football is massive money driven but clubs are happy holding onto people’s money from tickets instead of offering refunds. 

 

Complete bollocks. Of course they'll make a statement at some point! 

And no, I've not cancelled my gym membership, to help my gym survive. 

I've nor yet received a refund on my holiday, which I'd already have returned from. 

I font want a refund on a few games this season, because the money is long gone, its not the clubs fault and them refunding a huge amount in total will be detrimental to our club. 

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27 minutes ago, CodeRed said:

you're absolutely correct,  the law stands until it is repealed or amended by government. Consumer law is unchanged and remains as it was prior to covid. The notion articulated by some that companies can simply ignore it, plead poverty, or change terms and be justified because "no one saw it coming" is laughable.

The correct stance by any football club (or business) would be to approach customers and work together for a solution. Many have said they are willing to forgo a refund or accept a free tv stream and this should be an option....but those that need or wish for refunds should get them as it is their right.  The Preston statement was extremely arrogant and took no account of their fans individual circumstances, saying in effect we need it more than you ( the 'need' being to continue paying players their 20 grand a week in full)

A choice is most likely. No doubt all clubs will be hoping that most supporters will forego a cash refund and instead opt for some sort of club credit, which will cost slot less and help. 

IF anyone really is struggling and needs a refund, then I expect it will be available, but I would hope that very few actually need £100 That desperately. 

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1 hour ago, S25loyal said:

A lot of fans have no interest in watching games on tv. 

Really..? When it's the only way, by law, of watching our games..?! 

Your username couldn't appear to be any more ironic..! 

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If the club don’t refund or make it hard, maybe fans will think twice about committing to season tickets in the future. 
 

i would of thought club can afford refunds at the moment they have next seasons season ticket money sat in the bank and have worked on a scenario of refunds with there email error.

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2 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said:

 

IF anyone really is struggling and needs a refund, then I expect it will be available, but I would hope that very few actually need £100 That desperately. 

I would hope that very few Championship football clubs are that desperate to  actually need to skim £100 of fans to help pay their players £20k per week

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