London expats Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 10 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: I still think there will be a test case before anything does/doesn't happen. Clubs will doubtless argue it isn't them who are stopping you from going. Might be worth seeing if there are any fan organisations across the divisions who are looking to take this forward, rather than you paying anything out yourself. Should not need a test case , clubs should just reimburse for missed games , if they don’t and shows what they think of the fans.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 Just now, London expats said: Should not need a test case , clubs should just reimburse for missed games , if they don’t and shows what they think of the fans.. Guess most of them can't afford it, but if they can't afford it, they shouldn't then be able to spend in the summer, as in theory, they can't afford that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 I think there's two aspects here. Legal entitlement, the legal process. Only a test case would definitively settle it either way IMO. However goodwill. Even if clubs were legally proven not to be obliged to refund, it is worth giving at least a proportion if not the full remainder back. There's what the law might say, the there's what is right, perhaps necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeyed Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 Worth noting that claiming the money back through chargeback or s75 could result in a ban from the club. Whether they would want to do that is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 I think all clubs should offer a refund of matches missed. However, some/many clubs simply won't have the cash in the bank to do it. They will therefore be hoping that the people who support the club will accept an alternative. Be it streaming, club vouchers, or some other way that lessens the financial outlay, in hard cash - which will long since have been used. Nobody knew this was going to happen, so you can't blame the clubs for that. Most clubs are kept afloat by a benefactor, including ours. If some really NEED a refund, then I expect it will be possible - but almost any other alternative is going to be a big help to almost every club outside the Premier league riches. Take it, if you need it, but just bare in mind that a few quid back per person will likely mean we can't afford that next big signing that everyone wants. Each to their own... Its a far from ideal situation... but having to shell out a million/1.5 million pounds, at a time when revenue streams have been removed, will be a big hit for the club that we are supporters of. They aren't stopping us attending. They've been told that they aren't allowed to let us attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 Big signings during a pandemic after questions over partial refund, while a % of fans will have lost income or hit the buffers financially, plus furlough of non playing staff and (AFAIK) no top up of that 20% an interesting policy in a pandemic I'd say...plus player wage deferrals of course. Big signings or a big signing in that context is definitely an interesting policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddoh Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 33 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I think all clubs should offer a refund of matches missed. However, some/many clubs simply won't have the cash in the bank to do it. They will therefore be hoping that the people who support the club will accept an alternative. Be it streaming, club vouchers, or some other way that lessens the financial outlay, in hard cash - which will long since have been used. Nobody knew this was going to happen, so you can't blame the clubs for that. Most clubs are kept afloat by a benefactor, including ours. If some really NEED a refund, then I expect it will be possible - but almost any other alternative is going to be a big help to almost every club outside the Premier league riches. Take it, if you need it, but just bare in mind that a few quid back per person will likely mean we can't afford that next big signing that everyone wants. Each to their own... Its a far from ideal situation... but having to shell out a million/1.5 million pounds, at a time when revenue streams have been removed, will be a big hit for the club that we are supporters of. They aren't stopping us attending. They've been told that they aren't allowed to let us attend. but as with most things those who don't need it will be the first to claim it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeez Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 7 hours ago, Redwhitepurple said: Easy, 100quid. Bristol CITY are a business not a charity. If anyone wants to do whip round for the club, carry on, I Might even put a couple of loose coins in there myself but 100quid, ha no chance It’s more than just a business though, that’s why we’re all on this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrongagain Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 30 minutes ago, Red Alert said: It’s more than just a business though, that’s why we’re all on this forum. Agree but that’s exactly why the club should be offering a solution, we have 3 ST’s and have paid for renewals for next season and parking for this season - I am a disabled pensioner and a life long fan. I am lucky the loss won’t hurt me too much, but the club have to come up with a solution that will provide all fans with some sense that they matter to the club - not the current situation where it seems the club have our money and that an end to it - Our clubs chairman and his father need to recognise that loyalty and build on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 Players on £15000, £20000 a week can easily afford a £3000-4000 a week pay cut. Their agreement to defer wages still doesn't sit well with me when they could easily take the cut and help out the club/ other staff. Without fans there is no football including TV money. There is a lot of the season ticket refunds right there. I am not bothered about a refund for the rest of this season. But I will be most disappointed if no refund is forthcoming for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 Difficult all round, fans who can ill afford to lose money, fans like me who can afford the loss, but would like something in return, like streaming of home and away games. Club losing money at an alarming rate, even with a deferment, players still earning decent money. Will we really not refund supporters, then start paying transfer fees? It’s all one huge mess, and somehow the club must make sure that it plays as fair as it can all round, and doesn’t just heap the costs onto those who can least afford it, supporters and lower paid club staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 2 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: I think all clubs should offer a refund of matches missed. However, some/many clubs simply won't have the cash in the bank to do it. They will therefore be hoping that the people who support the club will accept an alternative. Be it streaming, club vouchers, or some other way that lessens the financial outlay, in hard cash - which will long since have been used. Nobody knew this was going to happen, so you can't blame the clubs for that. Most clubs are kept afloat by a benefactor, including ours. If some really NEED a refund, then I expect it will be possible - but almost any other alternative is going to be a big help to almost every club outside the Premier league riches. Take it, if you need it, but just bare in mind that a few quid back per person will likely mean we can't afford that next big signing that everyone wants. Each to their own... Its a far from ideal situation... but having to shell out a million/1.5 million pounds, at a time when revenue streams have been removed, will be a big hit for the club that we are supporters of. They aren't stopping us attending. They've been told that they aren't allowed to let us attend. Give it a rest mate - we've all shown massive loyalty to the club during bad times, time for the club to help fans who are struggling. Stop being an appologist for Lansdown - £1M max to refund everybody...but in reality many will accept a stream so those who need a refund will cost maybe half a million. As SL is sat on £1,700,000,000 I'm sure he can manage on the £1,699.500,000 left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 I am not too concerned about a refund on the remainder of the current season. I've already missed five games? due to personal circumstances or simply staying at home because it was painful watching such dross. I'm actually not too bothered that I will not be able to attend the remains of this season. But, it's the money paid for next season that is what I'm concerned about. Do I want to go if the virus is still around? A resounding NO. I never thought I'd not want to go. I've always jokingly said that when I cannot go to City, they can screw the lid down. Two years of very poor entertainment at home games and now such a big risk for someone of my age and I wonder if I've seen my last game there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: I am not too concerned about a refund on the remainder of the current season. I've already missed five games? due to personal circumstances or simply staying at home because it was painful watching such dross. I'm actually not too bothered that I will not be able to attend the remains of this season. But, it's the money paid for next season that is what I'm concerned about. Do I want to go if the virus is still around? A resounding NO. I never thought I'd not want to go. I've always jokingly said that when I cannot go to City, they can screw the lid down. Two years of very poor entertainment at home games and now such a big risk for someone of my age and I wonder if I've seen my last game there. As the infection rate reduces, hopefully you feel safe enough to attend again soon. Is it not a case of being at more risk of being run over on your way to the ground, than dying of COVID-19 from being there..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 40 minutes ago, CodeRed said: Give it a rest mate - we've all shown massive loyalty to the club during bad times, time for the club to help fans who are struggling. Stop being an appologist for Lansdown - £1M max to refund everybody...but in reality many will accept a stream so those who need a refund will cost maybe half a million. As SL is sat on £1,700,000,000 I'm sure he can manage on the £1,699.500,000 left. So you keep saying. I was trying to update my views in a balanced way. Take it if you need it, please don't, if you don't. I'd rather that half-1.5 million was invested in the team and would be happy to forego my £100. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted June 3, 2020 Report Share Posted June 3, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bar BS3 said: I'd rather that half-1.5 million was invested in the team and would be happy to forego my £100. That's all I'm saying. I don't know about your financial state @Bar BS3 however you foregoing £100 so players can earn £10,000 a week plus doesn't sit well. Your hard earned money will be going to wages of already overpaid players, not the every day staff who need it as they have been Furloughed. It's the every day staff who make the club what it is, and the fact City decided to not even top up the 20% whilst players are being paid full money shows this is a business not a club. You mention big money signings but I don't want to see that at all. If we can't afford to pay staff wages or at minimum top it up then its disgusting to see us spend millions on players. I love Bristol City but also need to be realistic to the real world here, can't always allow our heart to rule our head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Selred said: I don't know about your financial state @Bar BS3 however you foregoing £100 so players can earn £10,000 a week plus doesn't sit well. Your hard earned money will be going to wages of already overpaid players, not the every day staff who need it as they have been Furloughed. It's the every day staff who make the club what it is, and the fact City decided to not even top up the 20% whilst players are being paid full money shows this is a business not a club. You mention big money signings but I don't want to see that at all. If we can't afford to pay staff wages or at minimum top it up then its disgusting to see us spend millions on players. I love Bristol City but also need to be realistic to the real world here, can't always allow our heart to rule our head. Excellent points, Bar BS3 argues as if we are a club struggling financially - we're not, we are owned by one of the richest men in the country.......and yet we have furloughed non playing staff (ie we pay nothing and their pay is cut by 20%) whilst paying £1M pa wages in full. Community Club? ......my arse! as Jim Royle would say.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 7 hours ago, CodeRed said: Give it a rest mate - we've all shown massive loyalty to the club during bad times, time for the club to help fans who are struggling. Stop being an appologist for Lansdown - £1M max to refund everybody...but in reality many will accept a stream so those who need a refund will cost maybe half a million. As SL is sat on £1,700,000,000 I'm sure he can manage on the £1,699.500,000 left. Think @Davefevs worked it out at 700k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: So you keep saying. I was trying to update my views in a balanced way. Take it if you need it, please don't, if you don't. I'd rather that half-1.5 million was invested in the team and would be happy to forego my £100. That's all I'm saying. Only in the mad World of football. Please take money from people who have paid for something they have not received, many of whom will no longer have a job, in order that we can pay millions for a few footballers, along with high wages, even though nobody has any idea when the Club will get any income, or whether Covid will return in the autumn to further disrupt things. Post Covid and Brexit, there’s gonna be a massive recession, so football clubs have no guarantee that fans will return, or Commercial income will be maintained. Reality check needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cidered abroad Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 8 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: As the infection rate reduces, hopefully you feel safe enough to attend again soon. Is it not a case of being at more risk of being run over on your way to the ground, than dying of COVID-19 from being there..? Maybe the odds will be long for either the virus and a traffic collision. But the latter death would only kill me. As a male, approaching 77 years in July, even though I'm quite fit in lungs and heart departments, I would have at least a 50% chance of death simply because of my age. In addition to me, my wife who has asthma, would also be a strong candidate for the crem. I dread going to the supermarkets, am buying everything else via internet, making big detours away from others when out with dog. Until a vaccine is available, wife and I are choosing to isolate as much as we can. This life isn't a rehearsal for another one. So we will do our best to keep it going. If that means, for me, that I don't go to City and Bears, then so be it. Stay alive and stay happy. COYREDS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 13 hours ago, CodeRed said: I've been thinking of doing a Sec. 75 claim if there's no refund. It seems easy enough and there's a template claim letter and guide on the moneysavingexpert website, if that fails I'll do a chargeback or small claim if that's possible. There's not much effort involved as far as I can tell it can all be done from your pc. Some might not agree and think I'm being anti the club.......but as someone who has supported the club since 1967 through the turnstiles and ST's and bought shares in 1982 when the club was desperate (mainly so it could survive for future generations) I really don't want to be mugged off by the club I have supported for many years. What Mark Ashton and the other suits don't get is that there wouldn't be any 6 figure executive jobs for them to enjoy if it wasn't for bread and butter fans like me buying shares and 4 local business owners who remortgaged their houses so the club could go on. You shouldn't even have to be thinking that; the club should be ahead of you in recognising that the long term season ticket holders are the reason that there is a professional club in existence in the first place and show its gratitude by making an immediate refund of the unplayed games. This would follow last year's tremendous action by the Lansdown family of holding good upon its promise to give all shareholders the opportunity to sell their shares back at the price they paid for them despite their being worth significantly less than that. This recognised that these shareholders had bought shares in order to support the club at a time when it needed the money and not for financial gain and now that they could be repaid this was done. I received a four digit sum that I didn't think I would see again and really appreciated it; it gave me a very good feeling about a club I have supported for forty years. It would be similarly appreciated if the same spirit of thanking and repaying the fans who bought shares to support the club also applied to the fans who buy season tickets in order to support the club. I'm not a season ticket holder btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 46 minutes ago, Eddie Hitler said: I received a four digit sum that I didn't think I would see again......................... £19.99 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, CodeRed said: £19.99 ? And let me tell you it saved my bacon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Bar BS3 said: Yeah sure. Just my opinion, on a thread full of opinion. That’s fine but you repeat it over and over again and try to subtly show ways you’re ‘holier than thou‘ by paying for your gym etc. We get it you’re financially comfortable - good for you. Doesn’t mean you can look down on others though. They have their own reasons for their choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BristolCity1992 Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Phileas Fogg said: That’s fine but you repeat it over and over again and try to subtly show ways you’re ‘holier than thou‘ by paying for your gym etc. We get it you’re financially comfortable - good for you. Doesn’t mean you can look down on others though. They have their own reasons for their choices. The gym bit cracked me up. Gyms will be all over people who don't pay in normal circumstances with threatening letters. One thing if it's a small local gym, but on the whole they are just like any other company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bar BS3 Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said: That’s fine but you repeat it over and over again and try to subtly show ways you’re ‘holier than thou‘ by paying for your gym etc. We get it you’re financially comfortable - good for you. Doesn’t mean you can look down on others though. They have their own reasons for their choices. Hardly. I skrimp & save like most..! Had hours cut in work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Article in yesterday's Independent lists all Premier League clubs position on refunds for the BCD remaining 2019/20 games. 19 out of 20 clubs have confirmed they will offer full pro rata refunds for the remaining games. Only Newcastle haven't yet issued a statement (due to uncertainty re the takeover/sale). A free stream isn't really much use to PL fans as all games will be on TV. Many are offering a credit against a future ST but in all cases a cash refund is on the table. What are you waiting for City? link https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-season-ticket-refunds-2019-20-fixtures-restart-epl-a9546561.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natchfever Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 16 hours ago, London expats said: Should not need a test case , clubs should just reimburse for missed games , if they don’t and shows what they think of the fans.. And should be reflected in SC sales for next season if the club doesn't do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Rob Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, CodeRed said: Article in yesterday's Independent lists all Premier League clubs position on refunds for the BCD remaining 2019/20 games. 19 out of 20 clubs have confirmed they will offer full pro rata refunds for the remaining games. Only Newcastle haven't yet issued a statement (due to uncertainty re the takeover/sale). A free stream isn't really much use to PL fans as all games will be on TV. Many are offering a credit against a future ST but in all cases a cash refund is on the table. What are you waiting for City? link https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-season-ticket-refunds-2019-20-fixtures-restart-epl-a9546561.html Promotion? Is there a Championship list available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeRed Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bristol Rob said: Promotion? Is there a Championship list available. No. National newspapers aren't interested in anything below the Premier League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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