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You are Lee Johnson...first game back, team?


Mr Popodopolous

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27 minutes ago, JamboBCFC said:

Bentley

Pereira Kalas Baker Dasilva 

Smith Massengo

Paterson Palmer Eliasson 

Wells 

 

For me wells did well at QPR up top on his own when I saw him so thought with Palmer/Pato and Eliasson behind he should get some decent service. Fully expect the team to look nothing like this though!

Wells had a nightmare against QPR. Passed to them a number of times and missed a sitter. Thankfully he's proved he's quality after that debut.

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Think O’Dowda will definitely start, Bentley, too (though we both know who we would pick in goal).

Henriksen seems to be completely out of favour otherwise it is possible to still make a case for any of those not included in your non travelling party being in the 20 on duty, Wollacott because he would have to be if Vyner isn’t, Rowe has a lot of experience & versatility & Williams because he is ideal if we are holding on to a lead.

I’d rather O’Dowda than Eliasson if I’m being honest, so if not Watkins in my line-up, then Callum.

His biggest asset for me is the ability to travel with the ball when in space.

From the Bundesliga games I’ve watched, games have looked a bit stretched / open, and I think that would suit Callum the most out of all of our squad.

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

A week ago I was happy with my 4132, certainly in personnel, but once you start seeing LJ’s team v Saints you start reflecting on other factors...including opposition.

We don’t have any crap players who are gonna start and get universal moaning, we do have lots of players who some like, some don’t.

Blackburn usually play 4231, but when they don’t have the ball, the midfield really press the central midfield receivers.  I think we will try and miss out Smith and his partner (Massengo or Nagy), and hit Diedhiou and Wells (or Afobe).

The more I think about it the more I think LJ will go 442.

So I’m now thinking:

GK: Maenpaa (or Bentley - I’d go Niki but no real qualms over either)

RB: Pereira

CB: Kalas

CB: Baker (or Benkovic)

LB: Dasilva 

RM: Watkins (or Eliasson or O’Dowda) - I pick Marley for his physicality

CM: Smith (c)

CM: Massengo

LM: Paterson

ST: Wells

ST: Diedhiou

Subs: Bentley, Hunt, Benkovic, Vyner (club), Palmer, Nagy, Eliasson, Afobe, O’Dowda

Not kitted up / not travelling: Wollacott, Rowe, Williams, Weimann (Covid?), Henriksen

Shows what a tough job LJ has when you look at who might not even travel!

Good post, agree too about Blackburn 4-2-3-1.

Think what could be important in that midfield battle is if Holtby is fit again- tactically speaking. As I recall going onto that game, they had quite a few injuries and it seemed an ideal time to face them! Dack aside, wouldn't surprise me if most have cleared up. Dack missing is certainly positive.

As you say, 4-2-3-1. Not entirely sure how they'll line up. Hell they've even used Downing at LB before!

Assuming no curveball like that, I'd guess something like- unsure about order of LCM, RCM, ROB, LCB etc:

GK Walton 

RB Nyambe

CB Lenihan

CB Adarabioyo

LB Williams

CM Travis

CM Evans

RM Rothwell

CAM Holtby

LM Downing

ST Armstrong

Tbh this is just a rough possible template thrown together. Quite possibly would fitness and Covid permitting see quite a few of these!

Fear I had when I was wondering about Palmer in a central 3 of a 4-2-3-1 was Holtby winning that duel! I think he's better suited to coming back in to form a 3 than Palmer.

Not so much a 3 v 2 as a 3 v 2.5 or 2.5 v 2. Now I fear for us in a 4-4-2- numerical advantage isnt everything but I wonder how we might avoid losing the midfield. Could Wells or Paterson drop far enough back?

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1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Think O’Dowda will definitely start, Bentley, too (though we both know who we would pick in goal).

Henriksen seems to be completely out of favour otherwise it is possible to still make a case for any of those not included in your non travelling party being in the 20 on duty, Wollacott because he would have to be if Vyner isn’t, Rowe has a lot of experience & versatility & Williams because he is ideal if we are holding on to a lead.

Really odd one that, not sure what's gone on (anyone?), could be he hadn't been putting it in during training maybe.
I really thought that he was the missing part we needed. 

Not the first to go missing though, wonder if he'll do a Marley Watkins re-appearing act.

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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Agree on who you say is guaratneed to start if fit.

But then with so many games, LJ may rotate quite a lot. Maybe we keep those key players in but rotate the others.

I really like Watkins. Even when many people would take the piss out of him I kept saying he is a good player. He shown that at Barnsley.

When he first came, I did question whether he had ever played football before ? ........ WTF do I know.

Those couple of games he came back in for was 1) a great move by LJ 2) a shock for some of us for just how effective he could be.

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5 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Just to jog our memories, here is the starting eleven v Fulham:

                         Mäenpää

    Pereira / Kalas / Baker / Dasilva

Paterson / Smith / Massengo / O’Dowda

              Weimann / Wells

Perhaps we'll see similar with Palmer and Afobe up top instead.

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Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a duel. Problem is, Holtby drops in and we have an issue.

OTOH, Downing at LB could be an area to exploit on two levels. Age and unnatural position! 

5 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

When he first came, I did question whether he had ever played football before ? ........ WTF do I know.

Those couple of games he came back in for was 1) a great move by LJ 2) a shock for some of us for just how effective he could be.

Watkins at Barnsley was really quite decent. That year he got think it was 15, maybe somewhere between 15-20 goals and assists combined! Certainly a useful player in there.

Also worth noting that he scored early on v Blackburn and Sheffield United in 18-19. A woodwork strike away from a goal at Rotherham too in late September..

Extrapolated that's maybe 10-15 goals in a season, from a wide area. Impressive. Clearly extrapolation only goes so far but he definitely has his attributes.

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29 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a duel. Problem is, Holtby drops in and we have an issue.

OTOH, Downing at LB could be an area to exploit on two levels. Age and unnatural position! 

Watkins at Barnsley was really quite decent. That year he got think it was 15, maybe somewhere between 15-20 goals and assists combined! Certainly a useful player in there.

Also worth noting that he scored early on v Blackburn and Sheffield United in 18-19. A woodwork strike away from a goal at Rotherham too in late September..

Extrapolated that's maybe 10-15 goals in a season, from a wide area. Impressive. Clearly extrapolation only goes so far but he definitely has his attributes.

He did seem to have a goal back, without ever looking like he was doing much. That's probably a bit unfair, but those 2 comeback games for us were excellent.

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1 hour ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a duel. Problem is, Holtby drops in and we have an issue.

OTOH, Downing at LB could be an area to exploit on two levels. Age and unnatural position! 

Watkins at Barnsley was really quite decent. That year he got think it was 15, maybe somewhere between 15-20 goals and assists combined! Certainly a useful player in there.

Also worth noting that he scored early on v Blackburn and Sheffield United in 18-19. A woodwork strike away from a goal at Rotherham too in late September..

Extrapolated that's maybe 10-15 goals in a season, from a wide area. Impressive. Clearly extrapolation only goes so far but he definitely has his attributes.

Would you be tempted to play Elliasson right wing and tell him to tie Downing in knots? 

I would, but not sure Johnson will be so bold.

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1 hour ago, mozo said:

Would you be tempted to play Elliasson right wing and tell him to tie Downing in knots? 

I would, but not sure Johnson will be so bold.

That could work...a left footer on the right maybe- he can also play on the right like you say, strangely though having had albeit a brief one, Downing's ratings at LB come in quite good! Not a given that he would be at LB either, Amari Bell can play there too I believe, but if it is Downing pinning him back might compensate for the possibility of being outnumbered in the middle!

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18114480.downing-can-weapon-not-vulnerable-left-back/

Having said that, even targeting Downing can be a double edged sword if the above has some accuracy- he could pin back Eliasson a bit though his age would count against him in that respect.

Maybe if there was a way we could let Blackburn have the ball then expose Downing with quick break- Eliasson and DaSilva that could be another option- maybe even gain a bonus red card which would boost our chances greatly!

Apologies if already posted but increasingly liking the idea of a DaSilva-Eliasson combo on left. Worth noting though that a) They were playing at Anfield vs Liverpool and b) They (Blackburn) were using a right sided midfielder at LB to avoid injury risk to Bell. Doesn't seem to mention Downing.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/key-mans-return-weakness-out-4221503

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By key man it- thankfully- doesn't mean Dack but I see some similarities in Holtby, as a replacement- guys played CL, PL Bundesliga and a few times at International level and is only 29- an excellent pedigree, dunno if he had injuries or never made the most of his ability, or if bad moves set him back?

Couple of key segments from the article:

Quote

According to our colleagues at Lancs Live, they believe that despite the trial run at Liverpool, Mowbray will likely stick with his tried-and-trusted 4-2-3-1 and pick a team along the lines of: Christian Walton; Ryan Nyambe, Darragh Lenihan, Tosin Adarabioyo, Amari’i Bell; Lewis Travis, Corry Evans; Sam Gallagher, Lewis Holtby, Stewart Downing; Adam Armstrong.

Hmm. Reduces the chance of exploiting LB if so. Don't think Bell is such an attacking threat though so...

Would have too thought it may make more sense to switch around Armstrong and Gallagher but there we go. Could that be a weak link too, to get beyond Gallagher and isolate Nyambe a bit?

Quote

Without going into granular detail on all of the six goals - and, again, we must stress this is Liverpool, they are really, really good - but there were two distinct themes running through at least four of them.

That was either purposeful through-balls in between full-back and centre-back, or building possession out wide, creating overloads and or overlaps and then getting to the byline.

Three of the six goals came from players running into space beyond defenders in wide areas before delivering low crosses into the area which were then eventually finished.

Eliasson can isolate Downing on the right- or beat him for pace at minimum., thereby opening up Bell to a 2 v 1- perhaps Hunt could target Bell drawing out a bit of space for a low cross by Eliasson? Just one possibility. Even though my first choice is Pereira, Hunt is a greater attacking threat.

Quote

However, it was clear Liverpool found a lot of joy in isolating full-backs, although it should be added that Joe Rankin-Costello (a right-footer) is a midfielder by trade and was filling in at left-back due to Mowbray not wanting to risk first-choice Bell, who had sustained a knock in training.

Helps of course when you have an inexperienced few games right sided midfielder at LB- unsure we'll be so lucky but a knock in training, maybe he will a) Be unfit or b) Rusty and again able to expolit.

Eliasson-DaSilva as a left side alternatively could target Nyambe- Gallagher in that wider area, this definitely feels a possible weak link, defensively and positionally.

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On 17/06/2020 at 00:30, Mr Popodopolous said:

Watched the first 26 mins so far. Paused it there, as it coincided with the opener. A few observations thusfar- by no means all but a few:

  1. Actually quite competitive in the first half of that. Not always through fair means but competitive- winning 2nd balls, pressing high on Casilla when we got the chance.
  2. Had some nice spells of possession too- though Leeds surely had more overall.
  3. Early on, maybe first 10-15 mins there didn't appear to be a huge amount of chances either way. A number of fouls, was quite bitty I thought- not really flowing for either side, consistently.
  4. 22 mins in, 23 mins in- you  could see us visibly losing midfield, coming second best in central areas- what was also interesting though prior to this in our defensive third we had quite a few but didn't make best use of them- one that stands out is that think we had 5-6 in there yet ended up conceding a corner! From about halfway into this half though, it was becoming clearer. Visibly Leeds were taking control in these areas- what was also apparent was that their players taken as a whole were better at drifting in and out- not least e.g. for the goal- could see Harrison doing so in the buildup, think Douglas too came inside- and Hernandez of course is and has been capable in his time of playing as a winger, a wide midfielder or a CAM! The latter he perhaps showed with the goal. Arguably, though perhaps less of a factor, Forshaw's little pass in the buildup showed the importance of that extra man in there.
  5. Leeds were rather good at switching play, I have to say!
  6. Palmer as a CM? Dunno- have to say! Not sure I would, not even in a 3. Don't think he does enough  to justify it or perhaps more accurately is a sufficently natural fit for that.

Taking from that and despite Leeds' excellence, I think we can learn that:

  • Palmer as a CM, even in a 3- can be quite ropey.
  • We are susceptible or can be to being outnumbered in there- but we have other strengths too- see Points 1 and 2. I think we need a genuine CM 3 however, but then again we aren't playing one of the top 4 every week.
  • When we do have good numbers in the centre- see the bit in point 3 about conceding arguably a fairly needless corner- we don't always make the best use of them. I'd have thought you can spring a quick break from there for example- maybe not that specific moment but that general scenario. Arguably should be clearing it to a more favourable position however!

Watched the rest- not a huge amount to add!

  • Leeds still had the better of the centre but perhaps wasn't as big a difference as I assumed it might have been.Still saw the likes of Harrison, Hernandez drift in to good effect- Douglas on occasion too and I think Klich not averse to pulling wide.
  • Palmer did alright at times v Phillips.  I mean he isn't my first choice to be the 3rd CM but maybe...still not leaning towards it though!
  • O'Dowda had his moments- drifting infield and back out.
  • Eliasson of course was an excellent threat off the bench- created multiple chances within 10 mins or less, including the assist. I believe he can and should drift in more than he does- wider forward type role, in due course?
  • Weimann- I still wonder about him in the wider forward role. See how he took his albeit consolation goal- excellent! In from a wider position.
  • Great CF performance by Bamford for Leeds, must say- as well as the goal, he held it up well, he battled, he was a nuisance indeed- he isn't the most prolific but has a lot of attributes.
  • Phillips- Didn't seem to make a huge amount of tackles. Committed a couple of fouls and I think 1 tackle- maybe 2 though wasn't so sure if that was an interception or a tackle given how he stepped up.

So some possible takeaways:

  • Don't actually think we played that badly, but Leeds certainly worthy winners.
  • Weimann and Eliasson, I wouldn't rule out the idea of them in wide forward type roles. Additionally, if they drift in as and when appropriate, then this can create space for attack minded full backs- in the form of Hunt and DaSilva.
  • Palmer- still unsure I trust him in a CM 3. Have him higher up the pitch where he can a) Do more damage and b) Where his defensive shortcomings may not be at such risk of exposure.
  • Switching play- we could be better at that- question is who is our main diagonal passer. Leeds seem very useful at it.

Always quite hard vs Leeds not least as we've seen from the last 2 seasons- but I saw signs of encouragement from parts of that game despite the result.

Here's my concern- wish I had one of those coaching blackboards with diagrams and arrows that you see. 

Let's assume we go with team I've seen posted on other threads I think a couple of times:

                   Bentley

Pereira Kalas Baker DaSilva

O'Dowda Smith Massengo Paterson

              Diedhiou Wells

I know that O'Dowda can drift in and so can Paterson. However- let's assume team news is broadly accurate and Blackburn go with something like:

                  Walton                           

Nyambe Lenihan Adarabioyo Downing

             Travis Evans

     Gallagher Holtby Rothwell?

                Armstrong

  1. The right attacking side for us, up vs Downing at LB in particular feels a potential opportunity for us. I fear it could be wasted a bit with Pereira-O'Dowda- that side feels a bit narrower in some ways than it could be.
  2. Travis and Evans vs Smith and Massengo is a decent duel. Problem is Holtby drops back in and it's 3 v 2! Problem.
  3. Paterson or O'Dowda come in to help out- suddenly that can leave full back exposed to say a quick break if someone like Holtby switches play. If it's O'Dowda, then Downing might capitalise from a quick switch of play,  If it's Paterson, then Gallagher who is perhaps better going forward might- or he might switch with Armstrong who could link with Nyambe- again a 2 v 1 issue for DaSilva! 

On the other hand if we concede the ball, ie set out to and we had say a Hunt-O'Dowda right hand side Downing would be vulnerable- absolutely vulnerable for example! Quick break potential again, or O'Dowda drifts in, Holtby drops back and suddenly the link between their attack and midfield is severely hampered as Holtby might need to be tracking O'Dowda. Quick break potential for us?

I do worry about Holtby dropping in though and us getting suddenly outnumbered and outmanouvered centrally- or a wide man having to tuck in and us opening ourselves up to a 2 v 1 or a quick break depending on who tucks in. 

Or even Wells dropping back to track Holtby for example, thereby isolating Diedhiou up top- with some aimless long balls the result.

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On 05/06/2020 at 11:12, adamski said:

There is, indeed, quality in the squad, LJ may say he does put up a starting 11 to win, every manager would, however I question his ability to do this effectively given the resources at his disposal.

I rest my case.....sadly !

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