What constitutes a chance?

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

Often on here when the fate of players is discussed we are told player x wasn't given a chance. But what constitutes a chance? I imagine it means a player making starts and in consecutive games rather than substitute appearances, but how many games/minutes should it represent? How long would we expect the manager to persist with a player, so he gets a fair chance, before deciding it isn't working? Discuss. 

[Oh Louie louie]

Give a player a year to settle in.

I didnt rate chris roberts one bit, when he first came here.

He scored a hat trick at barnsley, i think, then looked a diffent player.

I think he got 20 odd the next season.

[Red Army 75]

Me personally I start to judge a player after about 10 to 15 games. A player needs to settle and adapt to new surroundings players managers new training methods sometimes new country. I’ve read posters on here say a player is shit after 1 game which is mind blowing and shows their lack of understanding of football IMO . 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, Red Army 75 said:

I’ve read posters on here say a player is shit after 1 game

Good old Matt Smith

[downendcity]

7 minutes ago, Red Army 75 said:

Me personally I start to judge a player after about 10 to 15 games. A player needs to settle and adapt to new surroundings players managers new training methods sometimes new country. I’ve read posters on here say a player is shit after 1 game which is mind blowing and shows their lack of understanding of football IMO . 

In my experience, on OTIB many players are judged before they've even kicked a ball for us.

 

[Lrrr]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

In my experience, on OTIB many players are judged before they've even kicked a ball for us.

 

Wilbraham

[Red Army 75]

1 minute ago, downendcity said:

In my experience, on OTIB many players are judged before they've even kicked a ball for us.

 

Very true 

[Charlie0016]

Half of Ashton gate judges a player after 10 mins of their debut 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, Red Army 75 said:

I’ve read posters on here say a player is shit after 1 game which is mind blowing and 

 

1 hour ago, hodge said:

Good old Matt Smith

He was shit, in that first game. To be fair (to Marina)

[Bar BS3]

1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Give a player a year to settle in.

I didnt rate chris roberts one bit, when he first came here.

He scored a hat trick at barnsley, i think, then looked a diffent player.

I think he got 20 odd the next season.

14 I think. 

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, downendcity said:

In my experience, on OTIB many players are judged before they've even kicked a ball for us.

 

This is called: talking about football. 

We all judge new signings, but some of us judiciously hold on to our hasty impressions before splashing them all over here for others to see/judge/quote later on/throw back at us

[The Batman]

29 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

This is called: talking about football. 

We all judge new signings, but some of us judiciously hold on to our hasty impressions before splashing them all over here for others to see/judge/quote later on/throw back at us

If I can find it on YouTube, I'll post it up which kind of links to this. 

Episode of MNF where Carragher and Neville were talking about young players breaking into first 11's and they get some wiggle room regarding mistakes and game time because they're from the academy or they're young players.

The example carragher gave was Hyppia. Rarely made a mistake for Liverpool but did so when he was younger. Had Liverpool signed him 5 years earlier, he may not have been more highly thought of because for previous clubs in his younger days he made mistakes.

For us, 30 year old Smith makes a mistake and he may get lambasted. 18 year old HNM may do the same but get the benefit of the doubt and encouragement. 

Just trying to strike the right balance with it. 

[CloudyThatchers]

I think after 5 minutes of watching Stefan Marinovic in goal we all knew he was sh#t

[Major Isewater]

When she lets you buy her a drink .

[Major Isewater]

4 hours ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

Often on here when the fate of players is discussed we are told player x wasn't given a chance. But what constitutes a chance? I imagine it means a player making starts and in consecutive games rather than substitute appearances, but how many games/minutes should it represent? How long would we expect the manager to persist with a player, so he gets a fair chance, before deciding it isn't working? Discuss. 

[Slacker]

For me it would ideally be a consecutive run of at least six games in a fairly consistent starting eleven.Give the player a chance to settle/adjust and make an impression. 

[Red Skin]

Every training session, every interaction with coaching staff, every interaction with other club staff, every contact with the community, every friendly or U23 game, every loan is a chance to impress.

I thought that was something that shone through in both Leroy Lita's and Wilbraham's excellent interviews on OSIB.  Work hard and prove you can be trusted and it will come (eventually).

The pressure to achieve results in first team games does not really afford the run of games some would like.  How many players in the squad could be given 6 games to bed in?  Only the marquee signing gets that kind of opportunity these days.  The manager/club have invested too much for it to fail, and quite often they will have been integral to how the manager wants to play so they are a natural fit.

That said, I would have definitely liked to have seen more or Walsh and Morrell.  But I do believe LJ when he said he likes them both and their loans were their 'chance' to gain valuable experience before coming back.  

[Rich]

4 hours ago, RedSkin said:

Every training session, every interaction with coaching staff, every interaction with other club staff, every contact with the community, every friendly or U23 game, every loan is a chance to impress.

I thought that was something that shone through in both Leroy Lita's and Wilbraham's excellent interviews on OSIB.  Work hard and prove you can be trusted and it will come (eventually).

The pressure to achieve results in first team games does not really afford the run of games some would like.  How many players in the squad could be given 6 games to bed in?  Only the marquee signing gets that kind of opportunity these days.  The manager/club have invested too much for it to fail, and quite often they will have been integral to how the manager wants to play so they are a natural fit.

That said, I would have definitely liked to have seen more or Walsh and Morrell.  But I do believe LJ when he said he likes them both and their loans were their 'chance' to gain valuable experience before coming back.  

As you say, the coaching staff get to see an awful lot more of a player, his abilities and faults. They know and hopefully try to improve a player but, at the end of the day, if a player fails to impress the person picking the team, he aint going to play. This then raises the question about whether due diligence was done in the scouting of that player. Having said all that, sometimes you find a skeleton in the cupboard, or an attitude which just doesn't fit once the player has bedded in. 

I suppose it's all about management, the rollicking here, or the arm around the shoulder. Everyone responds differently to different approaches and a draconian military style approach might suit many but, not the free spirit type of player. So it's all about the recruitment to start with.

We do seem to have recruited an awful lot of players and not really benefitted from their input as far as the first team goes. One has to question why that is. Moore is one that stands out, highly rated and targeted by other clubs, yet still not trusted in a City shirt. I know he's made mistakes but, when you consider mistakes made by senior pros, it makes you wonder if his face just doesn't fit or, if it's easier to drop him over the senior player.