La Plage Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 21 minutes ago, cidered abroad said: Fair point. But the head coach still has to work out the best tactics to suit a large change in personnel, motivate those players and have a Plan B to cope with injuries, suspensions and loss of form. Nuno Spirito Santo has these qualities but our Head Coach resembles a rabbit in headlights. The best example of this was when we were 1-0 up against 10 men at home (and in the top 2 positions in the league) NSS changed his play and formation and we capitulated as usual lost the game. 5 months later they cruise to promotion and we go on another famous/infamous streaky run....... Anyone can buy expensive players, great coaches/managers still have to make it work and adapt, which unfortunately Lee has proven he is unable to do and does not have the level of experience in his management/coaching team to turn to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRock Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 45 minutes ago, GTFABM said: Ok i will bite. Give me a name of a manager who is realistic and who in your opinion would get us promoted within our means. I’ll bite. Warnock. He’d get an extra 20% out of players and 30% out of a team. He’d identify the weak-minded, under-performers and clear them out. He’d set out a game plan and stick to it. This now is LJs problem. There is nowhere to hide. His players, his tactics, his motivation, his coaching, his backroom staff. He’s getting less out of individuals in terms of the abilities we’ve bought, he’s not realising potential and is getting less out of the teams a whole. As a finance man, SL has a manager who is not growing assets. Not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, La Plage said: The best example of this was when we were 1-0 up against 10 men at home (and in the top 2 positions in the league) NSS changed his play and formation and we capitulated as usual lost the game. 5 months later they cruise to promotion and we go on another famous/infamous streaky run....... Anyone can buy expensive players, great coaches/managers still have to make it work and adapt, which unfortunately Lee has proven he is unable to do and does not have the level of experience in his management/coaching team to turn to. Was that the time he left the centre back up front???? I shouldn't laugh really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 It isn’t even the obviously outstanding ones like Wilder & Espírito Santo, the likes of yesterday’s opposition manager (Mowbray) or even Nigel Adkins would improve us, in my opinion. However SL seems fully prepared to go with him into another season at present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, RedRock said: I’ll bite. Warnock. He’d get an extra 20% out of players and 30% out of a team. He’d identify the weak-minded, under-performers and clear them out. He’d set out a game plan and stick to it. This now is LJs problem. There is nowhere to hide. His players, his tactics, his motivation, his coaching, his backroom staff. He’s getting less out of individuals in terms of the abilities we’ve bought, he’s not realising potential and is getting less out of the teams a whole. As a finance man, SL has a manager who is not growing assets. Not good. I have said it before and i will say it again. Warnock football is not and never will be entertaining/free flowing pleasing on the eye. And that is a massive stick that LJ rightfully gets beaten with. Yes warnock might get up promoted... but then he will struggle and leave us cut adrift at the bottom. Then we have to pay alot of money to get someone come in to attempt to save us (sam allardyce, david moyse, alan pardew) who will fail then we have them in the championship. I’d rather not do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said: Plenty to be proud of. Look at our league finishes since our playoff final loss in 2008 and now we moan about finishing just outside the playoffs in the championship. I do think however we have the best squad now than we have had a in a long time so I would expect performances to be a lot better than they were yesterday. We have continually fallen short of our potential. i guess it comes down to your realistic expectations and your ability to achieve or exceed them. Settling for less is a Debatable position to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 29 minutes ago, Badger08 said: People have such short memories. Yesterday could not have been more disappointing. We failed in every aspect. I know some of the posts are reactionary, but you’ve got to concede it could not have gone much worse yesterday. Blackburn should have scored 4 or 5. I think Covid will secure Lee for next season, if it plays out in the same way again, then what do we do? Either try to improve or accept the model for what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 43 minutes ago, GTFABM said: Would love nothing more than city to get promoted but it really is no small achievement to consistantly finish mid-top mid table in the championship. I agree the football on show leaves an awful lot to be desired and some of the signings are questionable at best. When a player come apparently available and all the fan base think “just go get him”, i am fairly confident nearly all other supporters of all other teams think just the same. I love the club to a fault but we are not top of many lists of clubs you would join if you had the choice of most in the league for many reasons. Some good points. Its interesting though, that even in your posts you seem to accept something isn’t right. Questikn is, what can be changed to capitalise on the opportunities that have arisen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 41 minutes ago, Badger08 said: People have such short memories. Sorry , what were you saying ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Zod Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 What Wilder did was a fantastic achievement only beaten by Warnock's achievement the year before. I never liked the bloke but what he did with an at best bang average Cardiff team was unbelievable. As for LJ, I think he’s a better manager when we are not playing then when the teams out there on the pitch. I can see how he lands jobs as he does talk a good game. Pre season and lock down I almost buy into his optimism but 100% he has nothing to back it up. He clearly believes he’s better than what he is which is a lower league manager at best. How everyone doesn’t see this is unbelievable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, 054123 said: Some good points. Its interesting though, that even in your posts you seem to accept something isn’t right. Questikn is, what can be changed to capitalise on the opportunities that have arisen? Some things are clearly not right and after a performance like yesterday it is easy to forget we as a club do ALOT of stuff right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, GTFABM said: Some things are clearly not right and after a performance like yesterday it is easy to forget we as a club do ALOT of stuff right. I think there is just one vital ingredient missing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, GTFABM said: Some things are clearly not right and after a performance like yesterday it is easy to forget we as a club do ALOT of stuff right. I agree, it’s easy to fall into the ‘good not great’ mindset. Depends on your aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, 054123 said: I agree, it’s easy to fall into the ‘good not great’ mindset. Depends on your aspirations. I want city to be great but not at any cost. I want my club to be around forever. Rolling the dice and gambling is not sensible and thats why SL won’t do it. For fans football is everything to players in the main it’s a job, for owners it is a business. 3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said: I think there is just one vital ingredient missing ... Haha i think more than one but i do agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 9 minutes ago, GTFABM said: I want city to be great but not at any cost. I want my club to be around forever. Rolling the dice and gambling is not sensible and thats why SL won’t do it. For fans football is everything to players in the main it’s a job, for owners it is a business. So, honest question, does Lee Johnson achieve the most we can expect of any decent manger, given the parameters he works to? I fall between the two positions, sometimes I have sympathy for Lee and think could anyone achieve more. Then we have the spells where I question what on Earth is going on. Its such a year in year out cycle now that it’s obvious something is having an effect on us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 46 minutes ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said: Plenty to be proud of. Look at our league finishes since our playoff final loss in 2008 and now we moan about finishing just outside the playoffs in the championship. I do think however we have the best squad now than we have had a in a long time so I would expect performances to be a lot better than they were yesterday. Absolutely agree and there lies the problem. LJ is like the DIY’er who always wants to buy all the best tools, but who then uses the butt of his nice power drill to hammer a nail in and his finished jobs are generally a total mess. As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I reckon if LJ had had Wolves’s Championship winning squad, they would have majorly underperformed and he would have created a financial disaster for the club, due to not being able to get over the line. We’ve got a squad of players who should be performing far better than they are and seem to equate to far less than the sum of their parts. At least his father was able to get the best out of his players for a while, but LJ appears to lack that ability. He can talk a good game, but that ends when the players walk onto the pitch unfortunately. I think he’s a pretty safe, unspectacular Championship head coach, but I’m becoming increasingly convinced that actually achieving promotion is beyond his ability. If by some miracle and luck, he did manage to achieve it, I really fear his shortcomings would be massively exposed in the top flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristol Oil Services Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, General Zod said: As for LJ, I think he’s a better manager when we are not playing then when the teams out there on the pitch. I can see how he lands jobs as he does talk a good game. Pre season and lock down I almost buy into his optimism but 100% he has nothing to back it up. He has four years of 18th to 17th to 11th to 8th to back up the, er, extravagant self-talking up and promotion. That is a competent record. There is also the balance sheet, and the ins and outs, and the tidy transfer dealings, much improved for us, with Brownhill being a feather in Johnson's cap. Turning Bobby Reid into a 20 goal Championship forward and selling him for (forget how much) was another triumph. He wouldn't still be here if he had nothing to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, 054123 said: So, honest question, does Lee Johnson achieve the most we can expect of any decent manger, given the parameters he works to? I fall between the two positions, sometimes I have sympathy for Lee and think could anyone achieve more. Then we have the spells where I question what on Earth is going on. Its such a year in year out cycle now that it’s obvious something is having an effect on us. I don’t honestly know. Everyone thought cotterill was the answer then the championship hit him like a tonne of bricks. I just don’t want to be a club that gets to the prem once then struggles to ever live up to the added pressure if being an ex premier league team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Plage Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 46 minutes ago, GrahamC said: It isn’t even the obviously outstanding ones like Wilder & Espírito Santo, the likes of yesterday’s opposition manager (Mowbray) or even Nigel Adkins would improve us, in my opinion. However SL seems fully prepared to go with him into another season at present. Interesting point and reality check, I think if Tony Mowbray was appointed manager at city there would be a meltdown and discontent, however his team have beat us home and away with an agg of 5-1..... His sides however dull at times are always well drilled and everyone know their job and position, people like him get the basics right. However LJ likes to think of himself as this master tactical genius with his theories and pep in the making, however he fundamentally confuses the hell out of the whole team, tinkering and changing players out of position etc, no one knows what they are doing!!! Good leaders are good communicators, keep it simple stupid, after all they are footballers not rocket scientists.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: He has four years of 18th to 17th to 11th to 8th to back up the, er, extravagant self-talking up and promotion. That is a competent record. There is also the balance sheet, and the ins and outs, and the tidy transfer dealings, much improved for us, with Brownhill being a feather in Johnson's cap. Turning Bobby Reid into a 20 goal Championship forward and selling him for (forget how much) was another triumph. He wouldn't still be here if he had nothing to back it up. This is why i find it hard to pull the trigger because wether you like to admit it or not, poor football aside, we are improving as a club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
La Plage Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 58 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said: Was that the time he left the centre back up front???? I shouldn't laugh really. Certainly was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 hour ago, GTFABM said: I have said it before and i will say it again. Warnock football is not and never will be entertaining/free flowing pleasing on the eye. And that is a massive stick that LJ rightfully gets beaten with. Yes warnock might get up promoted... but then he will struggle and leave us cut adrift at the bottom. Then we have to pay alot of money to get someone come in to attempt to save us (sam allardyce, david moyse, alan pardew) who will fail then we have them in the championship. I’d rather not do that Just like the sort of football we're getting from Johnson. At least Warnock acheived something from the similar crap football we're getting under Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Just like the sort of football we're getting from Johnson? Yeah i said that in the very next sentence you quoted..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 11 minutes ago, GTFABM said: I don’t honestly know. Everyone thought cotterill was the answer then the championship hit him like a tonne of bricks. I just don’t want to be a club that gets to the prem once then struggles to ever live up to the added pressure if being an ex premier league team. It’s a fair point. I want city to be successful, but purely for us a club. The actual premiership brand holds no allure for me personally whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 1 minute ago, GTFABM said: Yeah i said that in the very next sentence you quoted..... You certainly did. See my edited post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, 054123 said: It’s a fair point. I want city to be successful, but purely for us a club. The actual premiership brand holds no allure for me personally whatsoever. Definatly agree with that. Premier league is not what football is all about for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: You certainly did. See my edited post. My whole post explains this though. I tried to word it in a way where someone would not feel the need to say something along the lines ‘warnock gets promoted though’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Isewater Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 37 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said: He has four years of 18th to 17th to 11th to 8th to back up the, er, extravagant self-talking up and promotion. That is a competent record. There is also the balance sheet, and the ins and outs, and the tidy transfer dealings, much improved for us, with Brownhill being a feather in Johnson's cap. Turning Bobby Reid into a 20 goal Championship forward and selling him for (forget how much) was another triumph. He wouldn't still be here if he had nothing to back it up. I agree with all that, it’s proof , and yet !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City oz Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said: Just like the sort of football we're getting from Johnson. At least Warnock acheived something from the similar crap football we're getting under Johnson. Well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
054123 Posted June 21, 2020 Report Share Posted June 21, 2020 Just now, Major Isewater said: I agree with all that, it’s proof , and yet !!! This might not be the best analogy, but it’s like being left £200m and giving it to a fund manger who after 1 year has grown it to £201m, then it grows to £205m, then after year three £206. You can’t deny it’s progress, but you can’t help but think that given the circumstances, the returns should have been greater. He hasn’t lost you money, and this year it might slip back to £204m, which is still better than the starting position, so what’s your gripe? Its just that over the 4 years it should have done more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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