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The difference a decent manager makes


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26 minutes ago, Bazooka Joe said:

Just like the sort of football we're getting from Johnson.

At least Warnock acheived something from the similar crap football we're getting under Johnson.

Well said 

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Just now, Major Isewater said:

I agree with all that, it’s proof , and yet !!!

This might not be the best analogy, but it’s like being left £200m and giving it to a fund manger who after 1 year has grown it to £201m, then it grows to £205m, then after year three £206. You can’t deny it’s progress, but you can’t help but think that given the circumstances, the returns should have been greater.

He hasn’t lost you money, and this year it might slip back to £204m, which is still better than the starting position, so what’s your gripe?

Its just that over the 4 years it should have done more.

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38 minutes ago, La Plage said:

His sides however dull at times are always well drilled and everyone know their job and position, people like him get the basics right.

After they got their third, they kept the ball, had ten men behind the ball and limited us to very little. I wonder if we were three - one up would we have done the same?

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5 minutes ago, Red Grovesy said:

After they got their third, they kept the ball, had ten men behind the ball and limited us to very little. I wonder if we were three - one up would we have done the same?

They also made some positive changes after going 2-1 up, when our response is normally to pack the midfield and stick a striker on the wing. 

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55 minutes ago, GTFABM said:

I don’t honestly know. Everyone thought cotterill was the answer then the championship hit him like a tonne of bricks. I just don’t want to be a club that gets to the prem once then struggles to ever live up to the added pressure if being an ex premier league team. 

Not everyone thought Cotterill was the answer ... plenty doubted his credentials as a championship manager - but he should be eternally loved for how quickly he turned us around and got us out of league one as champions ...

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10 minutes ago, BCFC Grim said:

They also made some positive changes after going 2-1 up, when our response is normally to pack the midfield and stick a striker on the wing. 

That’s why we need a new manager 

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9 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Not everyone thought Cotterill was the answer ... plenty doubted his credentials as a championship manager - but he should be eternally loved for how quickly he turned us around and got us out of league one as champions ...

Best season i have ever experienced as a city fan but it went horribly wrong 

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1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

I have said it before and i will say it again. Warnock football is not and never will be entertaining/free flowing pleasing on the eye. And that is a massive stick that LJ rightfully gets beaten with. Yes warnock might get up promoted... but then he will struggle and leave us cut adrift at the bottom. Then we have to pay alot of money to get someone come in to attempt to save us (sam allardyce, david moyse, alan pardew) who will fail then we have them in the championship. I’d rather not do that

....and I have said it before and I will say it again ... Warnock is NOT good enough for the premier league, but he will get you there. So we should have hired him with an agreement to get us promoted, including an appropriate bonus, and when he inevitably took us up he would be thanked for his services and sent on his way. And I said the same about Cotts when he took him on ... “good league one manager but if we get promoted, thank him and replace him with a championship-able manager...”

... and the number of posts complaining about Warnock’s premier league record 😩 - we should have used him to get there then said goodbye to him - his championship record was the only relevant one given our position. And he would have loved to manage Bristol City and he would have given it everything to get us up. And all those who say they “wouldn’t step foot inside Ashton Gate with Warnock in charge” - all would have sneaked back in for a look when we were top of the championship. 

Every player has their ‘level’ - not all are good enough for the division above - yet it astounds me that club owners and chairpersons don’t feel the same about their managers ...

Anyway, it’s irrelevant now, we’ve missed out on Warnock and the game is poorer for his absence...

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15 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

....and I have said it before and I will say it again ... Warnock is NOT good enough for the premier league, but he will get you there. So we should have hired him with an agreement to get us promoted, including an appropriate bonus, and when he inevitably took us up he would be thanked for his services and sent on his way. And I said the same about Cotts when he took him on ... “good league one manager but if we get promoted, thank him and replace him with a championship-able manager...”

... and the number of posts complaining about Warnock’s premier league record 😩 - we should have used him to get there then said goodbye to him - his championship record was the only relevant one given our position. And he would have loved to manage Bristol City and he would have given it everything to get us up. And all those who say they “wouldn’t step foot inside Ashton Gate with Warnock in charge” - all would have sneaked back in for a look when we were top of the championship. 

Every player has their ‘level’ - not all are good enough for the division above - yet it astounds me that club owners and chairpersons don’t feel the same about their managers ...

Anyway, it’s irrelevant now, we’ve missed out on Warnock and the game is poorer for his absence...

I like the idea but who do you get if he got you there? 

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1 hour ago, JonDolman said:

It amazes me that he played Rowe in front of Dasilva just because of Sam Gallagher.

It's been said many times but Johnson is always too worried about the opposition and we regularly set up to nullify the impact of the opposition. Perhaps against a Leeds or West Brom away there is a case for doing but not Blackburn. It also says to me that you dont have confidence in your CB's - why isn't Baker capable of dealing with Gallagher? 

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6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

I think Gary Johnson would have more chance of getting us up than Lee . 

Lee would hate that.  He believes he is a better manager than his dad who according to someone who spoke to him said “he’s just a lower league manager who can motivate players”.  😱😱😱

3 hours ago, GTFABM said:

Ok i will bite. Give me a name of a manager who is realistic and who in your opinion would get us promoted within our means. 

...and give them 3/4 years to do it? ⬇️

2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

It isn’t even the obviously outstanding ones like Wilder & Espírito Santo, the likes of yesterday’s opposition manager (Mowbray) or even Nigel Adkins would improve us, in my opinion.

However SL seems fully prepared to go with him into another season at present.

I never think of Adkins, but he is vastly underrated.  As for Mowbray ⬇️

2 hours ago, La Plage said:

Interesting point and reality check, I think if Tony Mowbray was appointed manager at city there would be a meltdown and discontent, however his team have beat us home and away with an agg of 5-1..... His sides however dull at times are always well drilled and everyone know their job and position, people like him get the basics right. However LJ likes to think of himself as this master tactical genius with his theories and pep in the making, however he fundamentally confuses the hell out of the whole team, tinkering and changing players out of position etc, no one knows what they are doing!!! 

Good leaders are good communicators, keep it simple stupid, after all they are footballers not rocket scientists.... 

 

And that’s what I’d like....at least a semblance of knowing what I’m gonna get from my team.  I don’t think they were dull yesterday either.  They might have been a bit back to front at times, but Brereton was a thorn in our side, Travis run us ragged box to box, and that was without Dack and having Armstrong and Johnson on the bench.  This is only their second season back up too!  He almost kept them up when he joined in Feb 16/17, but got them straight back up.

Interesting that Albie said Cotterill was top notch tactically, but not LJ, and that Cotts could easily sit in front of Pep etc and hold his own in a tactics discussion.

I’m not down on Lee Johnson because I think he’s doing a decent job, but imho he should be doing better.  Play-offs was the target, it’s still there to grasp.  I think it will be an awkward summer / autumn if we miss out on play-offs.  We’ve got a lot of work to do in these 8 games.

But I reckon adding to Mowbray and Atkins, I like Paul Cook (Wigan) and Uwe Rosler (Malmo) too.

I think all 4 would get you into the playoffs given 3/4 seasons.

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21 minutes ago, KentRed said:

It's been said many times but Johnson is always too worried about the opposition and we regularly set up to nullify the impact of the opposition. Perhaps against a Leeds or West Brom away there is a case for doing but not Blackburn. It also says to me that you dont have confidence in your CB's - why isn't Baker capable of dealing with Gallagher? 

I think 3 centre backs would have been the answer. Then play Dasilva wing back and he is more free to get forward.

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3 hours ago, GTFABM said:

I have said it before and i will say it again. Warnock football is not and never will be entertaining/free flowing pleasing on the eye. And that is a massive stick that LJ rightfully gets beaten with. Yes warnock might get up promoted... but then he will struggle and leave us cut adrift at the bottom. Then we have to pay alot of money to get someone come in to attempt to save us (sam allardyce, david moyse, alan pardew) who will fail then we have them in the championship. I’d rather not do that

It seems the best against Warnock is “we’d end up bottom of the Premier League with the ability to attract a bigger name manager than we are currently capable of”.

And we’re saying that’s less preferable than continuous but ultimately futile play-off flirtation yes?

Edited by ChippenhamRed
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4 hours ago, Corsham Ed said:

I agree, we are a lot further forward. However, I think we will go no further with LJ at the helm. We are at the business end of the season and only one won of the last seven. If we are to proceed any further a change of Head Coach is needed. We have the players, but need the leadership.

Passion, tactical nous who knows how to change things on the pitch, man managemt skills, a good coaching team around him, strong minded,  confidence in his own ability, prescience which the likes of Warnock, Pulis and all the successful managers have in abundance, abality to spot a good player along with a good scouting network mixed in with a good rapport with the supporters all backed by a decent chairman 

Edited by Shaun Taylor
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2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

It amazes me that he played Rowe in front of Dasilva just because of Sam Gallagher.

Did he say that?

Well that's poor on a number of counts. 

1) A DaSilva-Eliasson left side could have really pressured the full back as I don't think Gallagher great protection. Even more so with Bennett at RB. 

2) Looking at the other flank, I wonder what an O'Dowda-Hunt right side could have done. From the start I mean- Pereira is fine but with Blackburns issues at LB and Downing in front at his age I think some joy could've been found. I mean FFS Blackburn were fielding a right sided midfielder aged 19 who had played between 5-10 competitive games.

Clearly we need a solid ventral base too but Rowe at LB totally weakens the chance of a decisive and lasting advantage on this flank.

That said he got an assist and fair play but feel their unexpected issues at full back could've been exploited much better.

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1 hour ago, GTFABM said:

I like the idea but who do you get if he got you there? 

Well that is for the club’s extensive recruitment team to sort - but I think there several managers with proven premier league credentials would be attracted to our club with its infrastructure and an owner renowned for his loyalty and who is willing to support his management team in the transfer market ...

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7 hours ago, Matty_Taylor_is_god said:

Took over when we looked certain to get relegated, last 3 season been fighting around the top 6. I would suggest we are lot further forward.

We were not certain to get relegated when he came here. Pemberton had a very good caretaker spell..

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7 hours ago, General Zod said:

What Wilder did was a fantastic achievement only beaten by Warnock's achievement  the year before.  I never liked the bloke but what he did with an at best bang average Cardiff team was unbelievable.  
As for LJ, I think he’s a better manager when we are not playing then when the teams out there on the pitch.  I can see how he lands jobs as he does talk a good game.  Pre season and lock down I almost buy into his optimism but 100% he has nothing to back it up.  He clearly believes he’s better than what he is which is a lower league manager at best. 
How everyone doesn’t see this is unbelievable 

 

 


 

 

Because people are blinded by the light/ BS/ smoke and mirrors! I've had managers like him who can talk the talk but not walk the walk. It's a shame as I kinda like the guy and would love him to be successful for our club,  but it just isn't going to happen barring some kind of flukey/ miracle season, as he seems bereft of any tactical planning

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8 hours ago, GTFABM said:

I have said it before and i will say it again. Warnock football is not and never will be entertaining/free flowing pleasing on the eye. And that is a massive stick that LJ rightfully gets beaten with. Yes warnock might get up promoted... but then he will struggle and leave us cut adrift at the bottom. Then we have to pay alot of money to get someone come in to attempt to save us (sam allardyce, david moyse, alan pardew) who will fail then we have them in the championship. I’d rather not do that

Apparently Warnock is favourite for the Birmingham City job

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Lee was a young inexperienced manager when he joined us.  He had nothing on his Managerial CV to warrant the opportunity 

He clearly loves the club and wants to succeed (probably as much for himself as for us) but he simply isn’t learning and developing as a manager.  He’s not moved forward, I’d go as far to say that he’s going backwards.  He worries far to much about the opposition, sets us up not to loose ( which usually fails) and the days where we saw glimpses of the ‘high press’ and a possible interesting future seem long gone.

Cotts was the perfect manager to get us out of league one but for what ever reason Lansdown thought he couldn’t move us forward.  Lee has cemented our position as a top half championship team which given our yo-yo history deserves credit but he’s had his time, it’s time now to push on and gamble on someone else

With the stadium, training ground, a reasonable squad and a billionaire chairman who loves the club we are surely more attractive to potential managers than most times in our history.  It may end in tears and relegation, we may regret sacking him but it’s time to be brave again and try to move the club forward.

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9 hours ago, JonDolman said:

It amazes me that he played Rowe in front of Dasilva just because of Sam Gallagher.

I’m not, all managers set up to nullify the oppositions threats, the best managers also set up to pose a greater threat to the opposition, and put that at the forefront of the teams tactics.

We don’t.

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18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Wilder's a bit of a genius really. Once in a generation manager? Maybe.

They were going nowhere, nowhere at all in League One when he took over! Well up around the playoffs but didn't really look like a club on the move.

And the thing about that league one team is he followed Cott's philosophy to get them up. Very similar system with attacking wide centre backs. The difference between them and us is they stuck with it and made it work in the Championship.

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3 minutes ago, Gillies Downs Leeds said:

And the thing about that league one team is he followed Cott's philosophy to get them up. Very similar system with attacking wide centre backs. The difference between them and us is they stuck with it and made it work in the Championship.

I think theirs is/was a bit different to ours but some big similarities for sure. I thought that side of 2014/15 could go on and achieve more, together- with judicious strengthening and trading of course- but achieve more together. They did make it work but think they have/had a bit more solidity as well as the similar attributes.

Alan Knill is often cited as a big influence on the tactical side there, but I digress- was it a lack of strengthening at the right time, the failure was baffling considering the similarities between us in 2014/15 and them 2 years on.

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11 hours ago, RedRock said:

I’ll bite.

Warnock.

 

He’d get an extra 20% out of players and 30% out of a team. He’d identify the weak-minded, under-performers and clear them out. He’d set out a game plan and stick to it. 

 

This now is LJs problem. There is nowhere to hide. His players, his tactics, his motivation, his coaching, his backroom staff.

He’s getting less out of individuals in terms of the abilities we’ve bought, he’s not realising potential and is getting less out of the teams a whole. As a finance man, SL has a manager who is not growing assets. Not good. 

Id put my house on us getting a top 6 finish this season with NW as the boss, he knows how to maximize his squad, something that LJ seems unable to do.

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9 hours ago, GTFABM said:

Best season i have ever experienced as a city fan but it went horribly wrong 

The reason it went horribly wrong is that they wouldn’t back him with the money for the players he wanted and because they wanted to bring in March Ashton to deal with transfer dealings. Cotts wanted to be the manager in charge of everything and not a first team coach.

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7 minutes ago, John Galley said:

The reason it went horribly wrong is that they wouldn’t back him with the money for the players he wanted and because they wanted to bring in March Ashton to deal with transfer dealings. Cotts wanted to be the manager in charge of everything and not a first team coach.

Such as the FFP regs were at that time, we might have risked a transfer embargo the following season had we done so- because there was one final one year assessment under the old system in our first season up and the EFL declared all clubs had passed it in December 2016. Was sort of a transitional arrangement between the two systems but it was a risk.

Not saying it's the be all and end all but definitely something to bear in mind- and something the club had to bear in mind too. Just imagine if we had, it had gone wrong, we had been in and around drop zone Jan 2017 having done that, and embargo applied- we may have gone back down!

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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