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Not sure why Massengo is getting singled out; his season has followed the same path as most other players: plenty of promise early on, fading into mediocrity as the season wore on. So if that applies to everyone, why is the teenager getting brunt of it? What's more likely? Highly rated teenager turns out to be shit or team goes stale under manager and collectively lose form?

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2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Somebody said on a thread, he has 1 goal assist all season.

Is this correct?

I really cant see him in the team next year.

He should never have been chucked straight in the team.

 

If clubs judged CMs on their goals/assists stats:

Man City won't play Fernandinho next season.

Chelsea won't play Kovacic.

United won't play Matic.

Leicester won't play Ndidi.

Southampton won't play Hojbjerg.

 

And none of these were 18 this season.

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Not getting on his here hes a kid.

Its a thread about massengo, to discuss him.

So for instance, would you play somebody in midfield who consistently scores, and makes goals, over somebody who doesnt?

Age and transfer fee will not come into it with a guy like ch.

Just look at some of the names he dealt with at newcastle for instance.

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6 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Somebody said on a thread, he has 1 goal assist all season.

Is this correct?

I really cant see him in the team next year.

He should never have been chucked straight in the team.

 

The plan was to ease him in gently....but Nagy got injured in his 3rd match, and he got thrown in.  Initially he did well, but the Champ is unforgiving and relentless and I think it caught up with him.  There are only half a dozen 19s and under (Massengo was 18 until this month) who played that amount of minutes.  He’s giving players like Morrell and Vyner 4 years and they’ve not established themselves yet.  In some respects, poor midfield planning from LJ.

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5 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Not getting on his here hes a kid.

Its a thread about massengo, to discuss him.

So for instance, would you play somebody in midfield who consistently scores, and makes goals, over somebody who doesnt?

Age and transfer fee will not come into it with a guy like ch.

Just look at some of the names he dealt with at newcastle for instance.

Even the richest and best clubs on the planet have CMs who play every week that don't get goals or assists.

You couldn't have a midfield of Grealish, Maddison and Mount for example.

If he was playing as a CAM or number 10 that would be different.

At 18/19 we're still waiting to see what type of midfielder he's going to turn into

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2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

The plan was to ease him in gently....but Nagy got injured in his 3rd match, and he got thrown in.  Initially he did well, but the Champ is unforgiving and relentless and I think it caught up with him.  There are only half a dozen 19s and under (Massengo was 18 until this month) who played that amount of minutes.  He’s giving players like Morrell and Vyner 4 years and they’ve not established themselves yet.  In some respects, poor midfield planning from LJ.

My main concern is that it will take him a few years to get up to speed with the league.....by this time he will be off anyway, this was always seen my Han and his representatives as a a stepping stone I cant see any situation where he is here beyond his contract.

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I know it isn't finalised but there's been a lot of talk about Hughton. I think he could love Massengo. His teams always seem disciplined off the ball and are organised when pressing. Han-Noah isn't a creative type there to get assists but he does press the ball well and I think he could be good in transition both running with the ball and finding team mates with a pass. I'm sure like everyone else he'd look better with better movement from the rest of the team, something we've struggled with all season I think. In short, I'm still hopeful we've got a lot of talent there. 

But.. let's appreciate it's his first year in a new league and country, he's still very young and is playing at a high standard with high demands. He's doing fine and let's not be too critical or put too much pressure on for the time being. 

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52 minutes ago, Chris Casanova said:

My main concern is that it will take him a few years to get up to speed with the league.....by this time he will be off anyway, this was always seen my Han and his representatives as a a stepping stone I cant see any situation where he is here beyond his contract.

I totally get what you’re saying.  Up to new manager to get the best out of him whilst he’s here.

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Well if you are going to compare us to the richest clubs, every week.

Then i could state many examples of creative goalscorers who do create goals and score on a regular basis.

When you say you are waiting what sort of player he turns into, does that mean hes not ready yet?

So that means you agree with me?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Fair points dave fevs made about nagy, getting injured, and him getting chucked in.

That is a fact i overlooked.

I just cant see a proven manager like ch going with a kid.

Can you to be fair?

I think most managers pick the best players, irrespective of age.

Just looked up players Chris Hughton gave debuts to (u24) at Championship:

14540DD4-6CF7-42C2-B2AC-35329AFD7182.thumb.jpeg.8a4cb22192bb2d46e776b3db1ecd617d.jpeg
 

There will other players who’d already made their debuts who he gave plenty of minutes to.

I just think we need to keep an open mind about who he selects, should he get the job.  We are too quick to decide that he’ll pick x or y because of z.

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Still despair over our fans and Massengo. Still the same old discourse. It will be a League one loan suggested again next or something. 

In the space of a few years some fans have lost their collective heads. I have said this for donkey's and will reiterate it again, just to be sure. You need to play the young players in our team, our way to know if they are going to make it.  You cant forever palm them out on loan  it's just so backwards thinking

We will have Vyner, Morrell and Walsh back with glowing reviews and Smith and Moore, that's 5 'new' players effectively. Season 2 for Massengo.

It's exciting times, if we actually play them as covers a lot of problem positions

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3 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I did ask hours ago how many goal assists, hes been involved with.

If somebody could take the time and confirm, if its 1 or not.

Thanks!

I'm not sure he got any direct assists, and certainly he didn't score any goals (though he came close once or twice).

Bear in mind he only made 25 appearances (it seemed like more), and was subbed off 10 times as well.

I think I'm correct in saying we only lost one of his first 17 appearances. Then we collectively had a pretty bad time from December onward.

He had a perfectly fine first season for an 18 year old in his first year in England, impressive if anything.

At 19 next season is he ready to start 46 games for a side who's ambition is top 6 minimum? My opinion, probably not quite. Does he have tremendous potential, and should he stay with us and develop, be part of the squad next season? Again, my opinion, YES, absolutely.

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14 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

All the players he gave debuts too dave, id wager he didnt stick with to many of those names a lot.

This is a diffrent situation.

Hes been tried and tested at this level, and isnt ready.

Not aimed at you per se, but people on here throw accusation,  speculation and stereotyping around based on lack of research and / or knowledge.  I don’t know the ins and out of Chris Hughton’s time at Brighton, bar the high level stuff, but if you spend a bit of time looking into it:

14/15 - players who played a decent part

Caskey-Forster (20) 33 apps

March (19) 13 apps

R.Ince (21) 38 apps

Texeira (21) 35 apps

Dunk (22) 44 apps (on loan with us season before)

G.Gardiner (22) 20 apps

LuaLua (23) 38 apps

J.Bennett (24) 42 apps

Thats significant game time to young / youngish player.

Look at our own squad, if anything you could argue this season in particular it’s been worse.

In 15/16 - ditto

J.Wilson (19) 27 apps

March 17 apps

Ince 15 apps

Goldson (22) 26 apps

Dunk 41 apps

Skalak (23) 14 apps (joined in jan)

Knockaert (23) 21 apps (joined in jan)

LuaLua 22 apps

I would suggest Hughton likes a blend of young and experienced.  It doesn’t scream at me, “only plays older players”.

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30 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

All the players he gave debuts too dave, id wager he didnt stick with to many of those names a lot.

This is a diffrent situation.

Hes been tried and tested at this level, and isnt ready.

Specifically re Massengo....isn’t he ready?  Or is it more he isn’t producing enough consistently high performances?  How many of the rest of the squad have either?  I’m not defending him, just trying to give a barometer....and also he’s at the base of his development curve in pro football.  Who’s to say next season he’s not a really key part, rather than a squad player this season?

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1 hour ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

Still despair over our fans and Massengo. Still the same old discourse. It will be a League one loan suggested again next or something. 

In the space of a few years some fans have lost their collective heads. I have said this for donkey's and will reiterate it again, just to be sure. You need to play the young players in our team, our way to know if they are going to make it.  You cant forever palm them out on loan  it's just so backwards thinking

We will have Vyner, Morrell and Walsh back with glowing reviews and Smith and Moore, that's 5 'new' players effectively. Season 2 for Massengo.

It's exciting times, if we actually play them as covers a lot of problem positions

Hardly did Walsh and Morrell’s stock any harm.

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10 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Hardly did Walsh and Morrell’s stock any harm.

giphy.gif

 

This is the same Joe Morrell who at 24 nearly has nearly as many international caps for Wales (5) than he does appearances for the club which iirc is 6.

He's been here 8 years nearly. He was ready when we played him in those FA cup games 2 seasons or more ago. Yet some want to keep loaning and loaning and loaning when it's daft to do so. I cannot get that view point and really dont understand why some of our fans want to echo that. 

Liam is going into season 4 with us and has played more games for loan clubs than his parent clubs. 

 

The list goes on and on. Play them, see what happens. Simples

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, RalphMilnesLeftFoot said:

giphy.gif

 

This is the same Joe Morrell who at 24 nearly has nearly as many international caps for Wales (5) than he does appearances for the club which iirc is 6.

He's been here 8 years nearly. He was ready when we played him in those FA cup games 2 seasons or more ago. Yet some want to keep loaning and loaning and loaning when it's daft to do so. I cannot get that view point and really dont understand why some of our fans want to echo that. 

Liam is going into season 4 with us and has played more games for loan clubs than his parent clubs. 

 

The list goes on and on. Play them, see what happens. Simples

 

 

 

I'm not arguing that they weren't already ready, I agree with you that in these cases LJ should have put his trust in them and played them. Both Morrell and Walsh were mismanaged, especially when you consider how Brownhill and Pack looked absolutely flogged at times last season. However, it at least gave them a chance to play. 

If the new manager comes in and decides he can use HNM, then do that. But let's not forget that bar a handful of games this season he has not quite looked up to it yet. Obviously a lot of that could be down to LJ and his coaching, we will soon find out really what it is. If the new manager comes in and decides that HNM isn't ready for it and/or brings in a more established midfielder, he is going to find his game time very limited. So would he be better off sticking around and getting a handful of starts and some minutes off the bench or going to a lower Champ/higher L1 club to get 35+ games? I would say probably the latter. 

Loans also balance the books to make other transfers by offloading wages. You say it is a daft thing to do, but now we have two players in Morrell and Walsh who had their wages offloaded for a season and are probably worth a fair bit more than before their loan deals if we were to sell them.

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