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Hard Players (Do we need some?)


Sniper

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Is that what we are missing? I'm thinking Midfield but maybe one in defence and one up top as well?

Depending on your age you've probably seen many, a few, and probably for the nippers not many if none at all!

I remember Tommy Doc, Paul Hartley, Bobby Hutch, Steve (I'm 5ft but put Graham Roberts on his arse and said 'you think you're hard you ain't met me, or something like that) Galliers, Steve Torpey, Robbie Turner to name a few.

We're far too nice IMO and need some bite in the team, dressing room, and maybe someone who isn't afraid to have a pop back at the other players and LJ and the backroom boys!

If it's all keep quiet, and yes boss, and yes of course, and sorry, and I won't do it again boss, we can forget about the Prem without the inner passion and desire.

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Hard men in this day and at decent levels are no substitute for- IMO of course:

  • Technique
  • Cohesion
  • Movement
  • Creativity
  • Stability
  • Chance creation

If you want but I'm not sure how much it improves us. Hard men of the old days, red card waiting to happen now? We gave away 9-10 fouls in the first 20 yesterday and while I don't think we set out with a dirty approach, it just goes to show the risk of an old style physical hardman type player. Op, what do you mean by hardman? If you mean internally having re-read your post that could be different!

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36 minutes ago, Sniper said:

Is that what we are missing? I'm thinking Midfield but maybe one in defence and one up top as well?

Depending on your age you've probably seen many, a few, and probably for the nippers not many if none at all!

I remember Tommy Doc, Paul Hartley, Bobby Hutch, Steve (I'm 5ft but put Graham Roberts on his arse and said 'you think you're hard you ain't met me, or something like that) Galliers, Steve Torpey, Robbie Turner to name a few.

We're far too nice IMO and need some bite in the team, dressing room, and maybe someone who isn't afraid to have a pop back at the other players and LJ and the backroom boys!

If it's all keep quiet, and yes boss, and yes of course, and sorry, and I won't do it again boss, we can forget about the Prem without the inner passion and desire.

im with you on this one,been saying it for a long time now,we are so fluffy it is unreal

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We just need somebody to grab the game by the neck and get ourselves organised. Complete lack of leadership or direction in the game yesterday. Much too frantic.

This has been the case for much of the season though. Probably more since Pack left!

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A couple of seasons ago after a game at the gate (think it was the game where we blew a decent lead to Sunderland) Roy Keane was apparently in the crowd. LJ commented that we’d have seen the game out if Keane was playing and that he wanted to bring in that type of player in the summer. It never happened though. 

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1 minute ago, jambodinho said:

A couple of seasons ago after a game at the gate (think it was the game where we blew a decent lead to Sunderland) Roy Keane was apparently in the crowd. LJ commented that we’d have seen the game out if Keane was playing and that he wanted to bring in that type of player in the summer. It never happened though. 

Clubs in the bag and all that bullshit 

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36 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hard men in this day and at decent levels are no substitute for- IMO of course:

  • Technique
  • Cohesion
  • Movement
  • Creativity
  • Stability
  • Chance creation

If you want but I'm not sure how much it improves us. Hard men of the old days, red card waiting to happen now? We gave away 9-10 fouls in the first 20 yesterday and while I don't think we set out with a dirty approach, it just goes to show the risk of an old style physical hardman type player. Op, what do you mean by hardman? If you mean internally having re-read your post that could be different!

watched a superb tackle this evening "in from the side foot on the ground hits the ball, player reacts like he's been shot free kick given, until they sort this out a hard man can not return.

if a player can get a free kick for no contact the game has gone.

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We lack leadership, inspiration, creativity and mental toughness. Few of our players demonstrate any of those qualities, most looking brittle, weak and often completely clueless. The point is that a number of our players who have gone out on loan have done exceptionally well (Walsh, Szomdics, Morrell) which heavily suggests the problem isn’t spotting talent and recruitment but rather the coaching and tactics. Which brings us back to LJ yet again as the problem. I have to say if his performances in interviews is anything to go by, I can understand why we see so many limp performances from the players. 

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10 minutes ago, jambodinho said:

A couple of seasons ago after a game at the gate (think it was the game where we blew a decent lead to Sunderland) Roy Keane was apparently in the crowd. LJ commented that we’d have seen the game out if Keane was playing and that he wanted to bring in that type of player in the summer. It never happened though. 

I think the reason we blew it was due to his tactics, if it was the game I'm thinking of. 3-0 up at HT in the rain and yet the performance didn't feel entirely safe- to me anyway.

I'd have gone- similar shape, maybe an extra midfielder or not Diony- absorb for a while then as Sunderland get more desperate you can spring them on the break more so, huge spaces open and you can win 4, 5. This is not what we did- maybe give Diony a bit of a run out when you go 4 up! Get some possession at 3-0, some more possession- make them chase a bit and pounce as more spaces open. He said he was aiming to make up the GD but a bit more patience, it might have just come to us- the extra GD boost. As they get more desperate and they're not a great defensive side, they weren't- huge gaps open, they become a  uncoordinated mess and more goals are possible.

Just a stupid comment by LJ. I wonder if Keane's physicality- not saying his ability- but his physicality would mesh with the truly modern game?

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We desperately need some strong characters in the dressing room, but my impression is that LJ wouldn’t want that. Maybe it’s an insecurity/inferiority thing but any sign of having an opinion of your own and you seem likely to be shown the door. LJ would seem to prefer doormats!

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Senior players under him do not seem to last long or have a great time of it...

Already mentioned on here, Wilbraham did not especially rate him.

O'Neil- Promotions. Hegeler, was he late 20's, early 30's, played for a big team in Germany.

I personally have a theory and have had one in the back of my mind for a while, that he has a problem with managing successfully players from a higher level than him as a player. I can't quite place it, or why- but it seems a recurring theme, to me.  Not even just senior players but certainly seems more pronounced there- perhaps even both!

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5 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

We lack leadership, inspiration, creativity and mental toughness. Few of our players demonstrate any of those qualities, most looking brittle, weak and often completely clueless. The point is that a number of our players who have gone out on loan have done exceptionally well (Walsh, Szomdics, Morrell) which heavily suggests the problem isn’t spotting talent and recruitment but rather the coaching and tactics. Which brings us back to LJ yet again as the problem. I have to say if his performances in interviews is anything to go by, I can understand why we see so many limp performances from the players. 

That's right , I don't think anybody is saying we have to go around kicking players - those days have gone.  But we do need mental toughness as you say and leadership. Who are the leaders? Korey.....anyone else?  We've lost a few over the years Wilbs, Flint,Pack,   LJ has created an engine room  of the team in his own playing image - technical, tidy, can't tackle, won't tackle, sideways passing and patterns,  I can still see him jumping 3 feet in the air as he bottled out of yet another 50/50 ball. 

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4 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Senior players under him do not seem to last long or have a great time of it...

Already mentioned on here, Wilbraham did not especially rate him.

O'Neil- Promotions. Hegeler, was he late 20's, early 30's, played for a big team in Germany.

I personally have a theory and have had one in the back of my mind for a while, that he has a problem with managing successfully players from a higher level than him as a player. I can't quite place it, or why- but it seems a recurring theme, to me.  Not even just senior players but certainly seems more pronounced there- perhaps even both!

I think that LJ is actually extremely insecure, hence his inability to be able to work with top level players and big characters. And given our current form, he deserves to be insecure, but it’s not good for the team or the club at the moment. Lower half of the table finish is beckoning if this continues for the next 8 games, which might at least force the situation.

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Senior players under him do not seem to last long or have a great time of it...

Already mentioned on here, Wilbraham did not especially rate him.

O'Neil- Promotions. Hegeler, was he late 20's, early 30's, played for a big team in Germany.

I personally have a theory and have had one in the back of my mind for a while, that he has a problem with managing successfully players from a higher level than him as a player. I can't quite place it, or why- but it seems a recurring theme, to me.  Not even just senior players but certainly seems more pronounced there- perhaps even both!

I think that's right, cliche I know but it's the short man syndrome coupled with the old footballers retort to anyone with a lesser playing career "put your medals on the table".  He's always trying to big himself up " Pep was asking me about tactics"  "when Iwas at Arsenal" etc. It was telling for me that when there was that club footage on the OS showing some pre season on tour stuff where the players did a comedy night Szmodics was parodying LJ as someone continually bigging up his playing career "I played 500 games" I played in the SPL and mickey taked him continually flashing his expensive watch to the players.  Joking i know but there's truth in all comedy and I was left with impression that some of them thought he was a bit of a ********.

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1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

I think that's right, cliche I know but it's the short man syndrome coupled with the old footballers retort to anyone with a lesser playing career "put your medals on the table".  He's always trying to big himself up " Pep was asking me about tactics"  "when Iwas at Arsenal" etc. It was telling for me that when there was that club footage on the OS showing some pre season on tour stuff where the players did a comedy night Szmodics was parodying LJ as someone continually bigging up his playing career "I played 500 games" I played in the SPL and mickey taked him continually flashing his expensive watch to the players.  Joking i know but there's truth in all comedy and I was left with impression that some of them thought he was a bit of a ********.

Anybody who has to big themselves up by saying they played in the SPL really is insecure! 

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29 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

We lack leadership, inspiration, creativity and mental toughness. Few of our players demonstrate any of those qualities, most looking brittle, weak and often completely clueless. The point is that a number of our players who have gone out on loan have done exceptionally well (Walsh, Szomdics, Morrell) which heavily suggests the problem isn’t spotting talent and recruitment but rather the coaching and tactics. Which brings us back to LJ yet again as the problem. I have to say if his performances in interviews is anything to go by, I can understand why we see so many limp performances from the players. 

And there you go theres your problem would like to see this squad perform under a top coach.

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7 minutes ago, shelts said:

Certainly need an enforcer . Look at Brom with Livermore who is quite physical to say the least . We are small in the middle of the park .  

From what I've seen of some of Walsh's metrics this season, he does like a tackle, albeit in League One. Think Morrell can tackle too.

Small in the middle of the park though- could perhaps be said about Brentford, so not entirely sure it's the answer but I absolutely think that Walsh and Morrell once reintegrated after successful loan spells can form part of the solution. Think perm 3 out of Smith, Walsh, Morrell, Nagy, Massengo- rotation plus inevitable injuries and suspension, a decent unit could certainly be created I think.

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26 minutes ago, RobintheRed Red said:

And there you go theres your problem would like to see this squad perform under a top coach.

Would be very interesting to see what say Frank at Brentford could do with this squad- think we have similarities in a number of aspects though they have upgraded on Bentley. I should add I think they're better than us overall.

Mowbray another interesting possible. That's before we even get onto Bielsa and Bilic- think any and all of them would a) Be able to better manage some of our bigger players/players from higher levels and b) More importantly bring a cohesive and consistent style of play!

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5 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

From what I've seen of some of Walsh's metrics this season, he does like a tackle, albeit in League One. Think Morrell can tackle too.

Small in the middle of the park though- could perhaps be said about Brentford, so not entirely sure it's the answer but I absolutely think that Walsh and Morrell once reintegrated after successful loan spells can form part of the solution. Think perm 3 out of Smith, Walsh, Morrell, Nagy, Massengo- rotation plus inevitable injuries and suspension, a decent unit could certainly be created I think.

That’s a good shout with those two , it’s ok liking a tackle but as u z short in stature . 

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14 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Would be very interesting to see what say Frank at Brentford could do with this squad- think we have similarities in a number of aspects though they have upgraded on Bentley.

Mowbray another interesting possible. That's before we even get onto Bielsa and Bilic- think any and all of them would a) Be able to better manage some of our bigger players/players from higher levels and b) More importantly bring a cohesive and consistent style of play!

Yes let him continue to bore us all till end of the season then we need to get a top coach in for next year.

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We have a number of international players in our squad but you would never know it from the way that they are playing at the moment. Which again suggests it’s not that our players aren’t good enough, but that the problem is with who is leading them. The number of players who have lost form as soon as they arrive at Ashton Gate but magically seem to find it as soon as they go elsewhere is staggering!

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4 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Hard men in this day and at decent levels are no substitute for- IMO of course:

  • Technique
  • Cohesion
  • Movement
  • Creativity
  • Stability
  • Chance creation

If you want but I'm not sure how much it improves us. Hard men of the old days, red card waiting to happen now? We gave away 9-10 fouls in the first 20 yesterday and while I don't think we set out with a dirty approach, it just goes to show the risk of an old style physical hardman type player. Op, what do you mean by hardman? If you mean internally having re-read your post that could be different!

G'day Mr Pop, I take onboard what you say so with that in mind, do you think the legendary Norman Hunter would have been as successful in todays game?. I realise it's comparing eras but just interested in your thoughts?.

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50 minutes ago, Isawjonshaw said:

We NEED to get rid of L J

This is indeed the bottom line.

 

Sadly he is going no-where this year, whatever happens;

Expect more knocking down and re-building this close season followed by bedding in until xmas then fine tuning, all the while not going anywhere lacking leadership on and off the pitch; so zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz but we will go with it and continue moaning living on rubbish coming from LJ`s mouth, the ultimate salesman.? same as it has been since he got here.

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