LJ Ball

[old_eastender]

Not that long ago, we had a forward thinking young first team coach being rightly given plaudits far and wide for the pressing, neat passing interchange, football we were playing. Who can forget that memorable win over Man.Utd.

Then it came to the pivotal league match at home to Wolves, we got a deserved 1-0 lead against 10 men and LJ gambled in leaving Aden Flint up front as he went for the 2^nd killer goal. It was a gamble that back fired badly as Wolves came back to win, exposing the defensive space where Flint should have been. So the seeds of doubt were sown, and despite some swansong performances, notably against Man. City, the first inklings of “LJ ball” had been born.

Now “LJ Ball” is fully matured, it’s difficult for us numpty supporters to understand but these are the basic principles:

1.       Don’t pick a team or formation to play to our strengths, pick them to counter the opposition’s strengths. This rule is paramount.

2.       Pick ‘trusted’ players (those that don’t question you) even if there are better players available and even if you have to play the “trusted” ones out of position.

3.       Short sideways passes are great for possession stats, play lots of them.

4.       Avoid fast counter attacks that could leave gaps for the opposition to exploit, instead play it slow and steady in our own half.

5.       Avoid risky forward passes on the ground; instead hoof it to the flanks, or even straight down the middle.

6.       If you are a forward who actually receives a hoof ball (this won’t happen often) don’t try and take defenders on, or run forward, you might lose possession. Stop, check back, pass it backwards.

7.       Don’t worry about having shots on target, this is an overrated stat.

8.       If anybody questions your team selection, tactics (sic), or any aspect of you, just baffle them with bullsh*t.

There you have it.

[Silvio Dante]

5 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

Not that long ago, we had a forward thinking young first team coach being rightly given plaudits far and wide for the pressing, neat passing interchange, football we were playing. Who can forget that memorable win over Man.Utd.

Then it came to the pivotal league match at home to Wolves, we got a deserved 1-0 lead against 10 men and LJ gambled in leaving Aden Flint up front as he went for the 2^nd killer goal. It was a gamble that back fired badly as Wolves came back to win, exposing the defensive space where Flint should have been. So the seeds of doubt were sown, and despite some swansong performances, notably against Man. City, the first inklings of “LJ ball” had been born.

Now “LJ Ball” is fully matured, it’s difficult for us numpty supporters to understand but these are the basic principles:

1.       Don’t pick a team or formation to play to our strengths, pick them to counter the opposition’s strengths. This rule is paramount.

2.       Pick ‘trusted’ players (those that don’t question you) even if there are better players available and even if you have to play the “trusted” ones out of position.

3.       Short sideways passes are great for possession stats, play lots of them.

4.       Avoid fast counter attacks that could leave gaps for the opposition to exploit, instead play it slow and steady in our own half.

5.       Avoid risky forward passes on the ground; instead hoof it to the flanks, or even straight down the middle.

6.       If you are a forward who actually receives a hoof ball (this won’t happen often) don’t try and take defenders on, or run forward, you might lose possession. Stop, check back, pass it backwards.

7.       Don’t worry about having shots on target, this is an overrated stat.

8.       If anybody questions your team selection, tactics (sic), or any aspect of you, just baffle them with bullsh*t.

There you have it.

I agree with the first point, and have made it on a lot of occasions. I also agree with parts of the rest.
 

There is, however, a thematic here. And reading the points, the word “safe” jumps out of the page. In addition to the Wolves game mentioned, remember Wigan - Tammys debut - where we threw everything at it and LJ described it as “gung ho”.

We’ve not been “gung ho” for a while now.

There is an interesting parallel which has come to mind for me, and that’s Danny Wilson. Similarly to LJ, he had us playing some really good football - attacking - and then we missed out in the playoffs. IIRC Wigan won the league grinding out 1-0’s. Next season, we went far more defensive and it ended with the Brighton game which we’d all rather forget.

Now, looking at your Wolves example. We were fantastic for the first half of that season playing an intense press, good football and seeking wins. Then we ran out of steam (and LJ got more players). Since then we’ve been gradually “safer” and duller.

I would argue that “LJ ball” is “Manager ball”. He’s tried the attacking energy option and didn’t quite make it so he’s gone safe, and it’s worse. Wilson did it. It’s not Johnson - it’s normal manager instinct. But it does question massively whether he can come back if it continues for 8 more games.

 

[Coin-op]

I don't get why he just doesn't go for it in these final games?  Treat them as must win games.  At least he could say we gave it a go.  He has had three months to think about a strategy and this is what we get?!  Bonkers.  It is very frustrating to watch whilst remembering the brilliant pressing style we once had.  Why not try it for these last games?  It is not as if they will have to do it over 49 odd games.  C'mon Lee show us an 'identity,' a style of play.

[daored]

5 minutes ago, Coin-op said:

I don't get why he just doesn't go for it in these final games?  Treat them as must win games.  At least he could say we gave it a go.  He has had three months to think about a strategy and this is what we get?!  Bonkers.  It is very frustrating to watch whilst remembering the brilliant pressing style we once had.  Why not try it for these last games?  It is not as if they will have to do it over 49 odd games.  C'mon Lee show us an 'identity,' a style of play.

Mentioned it on another thread - it would be welcome if he came out and said we’ve got eight games we’re just going to go for it (shit or bust) , I back my players to beat anyone in this league. 

A great message to the players. I think he would get buy in from the players and fans - he won’t do it. Who knows how we’ll line up on Sunday and there is the problem - neither do the players 

[CyderInACan]

47 minutes ago, old_eastender said:

If anybody questions your team selection, tactics (sic), or any aspect of you. . . they're automatically dropped 

[ohhhshauntaylor]

20 minutes ago, daored said:

Mentioned it on another thread - it would be welcome if he came out and said we’ve got eight games we’re just going to go for it (shit or bust) , I back my players to beat anyone in this league. 

A great message to the players. I think he would get buy in from the players and fans - he won’t do it. Who knows how we’ll line up on Sunday and there is the problem - neither do the players 

absolutely agree 100%.

8 games, GUNG HO!

Play Palmer, Wells, Afobe- go for it

[Lrrr]

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

[Coin-op]

I think we can all see that this 'conservative' approach isn't going to get us anywhere.  I really hope I am proved wrong but just cannot see it.  

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

1 hour ago, old_eastender said:

Not that long ago, we had a forward thinking young first team coach being rightly given plaudits far and wide for the pressing, neat passing interchange, football we were playing. Who can forget that memorable win over Man.Utd.

Then it came to the pivotal league match at home to Wolves, we got a deserved 1-0 lead against 10 men and LJ gambled in leaving Aden Flint up front as he went for the 2^nd killer goal. It was a gamble that back fired badly as Wolves came back to win, exposing the defensive space where Flint should have been. So the seeds of doubt were sown, and despite some swansong performances, notably against Man. City, the first inklings of “LJ ball” had been born.

Now “LJ Ball” is fully matured, it’s difficult for us numpty supporters to understand but these are the basic principles:

1.       Don’t pick a team or formation to play to our strengths, pick them to counter the opposition’s strengths. This rule is paramount.

2.       Pick ‘trusted’ players (those that don’t question you) even if there are better players available and even if you have to play the “trusted” ones out of position.

3.       Short sideways passes are great for possession stats, play lots of them.

4.       Avoid fast counter attacks that could leave gaps for the opposition to exploit, instead play it slow and steady in our own half.

5.       Avoid risky forward passes on the ground; instead hoof it to the flanks, or even straight down the middle.

6.       If you are a forward who actually receives a hoof ball (this won’t happen often) don’t try and take defenders on, or run forward, you might lose possession. Stop, check back, pass it backwards.

7.       Don’t worry about having shots on target, this is an overrated stat.

8.       If anybody questions your team selection, tactics (sic), or any aspect of you, just baffle them with bullsh*t.

There you have it.

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

[Coin-op]

This is not a knee jerk reaction.  It is something that has been building up over the last 2 years.  I was firmly in the 'back Lee J' camp but there is only so much dire football you can watch.

[Slacker]

5 minutes ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

I think the vast majority of supporters would never condemn the manager or players for giving 100% and going all out for the win.If it doesn't work,you can't ask for more.If you go for the conservative approach most will say ,why didn't we throw everything we had at them?Better to go down fighting than taking your foot off and hoping for the best.I have seen many seasons with not the most talented City players giving everything they can,and the supporters will never get on their back.I have also seen much more gifted players just going through the motions, with fans singing "You're not fit to wear the shirt".Just go for it!

[SuperRed]

14 minutes ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

Yes because given the way we were playing pre lockdown and then based on Saturday’s performance there is no way we will get anywhere near the playoffs and it’s terrible to watch at the same time. We are 20th in the form table over the last 10 games 

[glen humphries]

19 minutes ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

The way we’re playing now we’ve got no chance of playoffs anyway so he just as well go for it , we might even get some entertainment and exciting football along the way.

[daored]

28 minutes ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

I understand your point , but our form hasn’t been great for a while now. I think if there was a positive message and we went for it , and played good attacking football people would be more accepting. I don’t think out current style of play will see  us make the top six. I’m not saying going with 3 up front and Palmer and Eliasson in the team as I agree that would be reckless, but we have an attacking threat that we seem reluctant to use. 

[General Zod]

With the 3 month break I t’s easy to forget just how terrible we’ve been to watch for a large part of this season once again.  LJ has forgotten that football is as much about entertainment as results and it feels like he is too worried about his own survival.  The way the club judge success, by a minuscule out performance year on year is a big part of the problem.

People will settle for boring football short term if it gets promotion or staves of relegation but not long term.  Look at warnock teams, as soon as promotion/safety looks unlikely fans and chairman’s want rid.

We have had appallingly uninspiring football for years, very few goals, clueless tactics, clueless in game management and due to year on year nightmare runs no realistic chance of the playoffs

Thanks for making us a top half championship team Lee, a great achievement but it’s now time to move on

[Major Isewater]

12 minutes ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

LJ was a coach who believed in the romance of football, the last minute winner nodded in by the Keeper, Two wingers tormenting the opposition defence , going toe to toe with the biggest and the best and winning.

I have criticised him in the past for being too ‘ gung ho ‘ but he has swung completely the other way serving up boring, turgid , negative football which is hard to watch and must be horrible for the players to adhere to .

He hasn’t got a scooby I am afraid. 
 

 

[NcnsBcfc]

To be fair, we have been awful at home for two years now. 

Our home form last season was 17th. This season guess what, 17th. Ultimately unless that improves, we are never going to be challenging the top six.

Despite an arguably stronger squad,this season has a real feel of the team stagnating, and in some ways going backwards.

Hopefully we can arrest the slide; and we don't fall in the trap that we did with GJ of leaving it too late.

[headhunter]

37 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

Your comments are a voice of reason amongst many on here so I applaud you for that.

It wasn't so much the defeat but the manner of the defeat - did they really look like they were playing as though their lives depended on it? For me, an absolute NO. 

Not for the first time did I get sucked in by LJs' "they're up for it and have trained very well" only by 4.30 to be feeling let down - AGAIN.

You can't support a manager who says he will select players he can trust in future games - that surely will demotivate the group as a whole and I think they have little respect for him as if they did you wouldn't see performances like Saturday's which have been a feature of this season not just a one off

 

 

[Roger Red Hat]

18 minutes ago, ncnsbcfc said:

To be fair, we have been awful at home for two years now. 

Our home form last season was 17th. This season guess what, 17th. Ultimately unless that improves, we are never going to be challenging the top six.

Despite an arguably stronger squad,this season has a real feel of the team stagnating, and in some ways going backwards.

Hopefully we can arrest the slide; and we don't fall in the trap that we did with GJ of leaving it too late.

Good post. During the enforced break when we weren't playing, I'd forgotten how turgid our football had become over the last couple of years. Your point about GJ is spot on.

[Dingbat]

2 hours ago, old_eastender said:

Not that long ago, we had a forward thinking young first team coach being rightly given plaudits far and wide for the pressing, neat passing interchange, football we were playing. Who can forget that memorable win over Man.Utd.

Then it came to the pivotal league match at home to Wolves, we got a deserved 1-0 lead against 10 men and LJ gambled in leaving Aden Flint up front as he went for the 2^nd killer goal. It was a gamble that back fired badly as Wolves came back to win, exposing the defensive space where Flint should have been. So the seeds of doubt were sown, and despite some swansong performances, notably against Man. City, the first inklings of “LJ ball” had been born.

Now “LJ Ball” is fully matured, it’s difficult for us numpty supporters to understand but these are the basic principles:

1.       Don’t pick a team or formation to play to our strengths, pick them to counter the opposition’s strengths. This rule is paramount.

2.       Pick ‘trusted’ players (those that don’t question you) even if there are better players available and even if you have to play the “trusted” ones out of position.

3.       Short sideways passes are great for possession stats, play lots of them.

4.       Avoid fast counter attacks that could leave gaps for the opposition to exploit, instead play it slow and steady in our own half.

5.       Avoid risky forward passes on the ground; instead hoof it to the flanks, or even straight down the middle.

6.       If you are a forward who actually receives a hoof ball (this won’t happen often) don’t try and take defenders on, or run forward, you might lose possession. Stop, check back, pass it backwards.

7.       Don’t worry about having shots on target, this is an overrated stat.

8.       If anybody questions your team selection, tactics (sic), or any aspect of you, just baffle them with bullsh*t.

There you have it.

You forgot 'box entries' - these are pivotal to LJ-ball

[BrizzleRed]

38 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

You’re one of the more ‘patient’ posters on here, and seem to cut LJ more slack than most, but something really worries me about where we’re currently heading.

We should be building our style for the future, but what happens if we play it safe and somehow by some miracle and a massive amount of luck, sneak over the line and end up in the Prem next year?

I was worried how we’d fare under GJ if we’d won the Playoff Final, as there were massive doubts about his ability to work at a higher level.  At least that team had fight, spirit and a never say die attitude though and he managed to get the max out of players most of the time.

Even the most pro LJ fan vouldn’t say the same for him and do you think the dross we’re watching now is going to take us forward in the future?  Heaven forbid that we’d make it to the Prem, because if we did, we’d be a total laughing stock and it would put the club back years.

LJ can talk himself up as much as he wants, but actions speak louder than words and the man has had 4 years and many millions to be a few places higher in the table, but no closer to a playing style that could have any chance of surviving even one season in the Premier League.

The club has made great strides in many areas, but LJ is really looking like he’s at the limit of his ability now imho.

 

[The Bard]

1 hour ago, ohhhshauntaylor said:

absolutely agree 100%.

8 games, GUNG HO!

Play Palmer, Wells, Afobe- go for it

Sorry but the 3 of them were non existent on Saturday. Palmer minced about barely playing a forward pass, Afobe is just feeling his way back after 9 months. Wells was stuck in a nothing position off Afobe struggling to get the ball. 

 

I really struggle with people thinking we should drop Eliasson.  He is our best player. Even when not playing well he scares the opposition.  No one else does

[Clutton Caveman]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

You ask how can the manager be responsible when his team don't deliver? Its called motivation. Some managers gain respect by their past playing career, others by their managerial record and others by shear example and personality like Sean Dyche. To see LJ come back from lock down even porkier than usual, what sort of example does that set. When you are so close on age to your players and dont have a stellar playing career behind you it is essential to lead by example.

I dont think our team has been particularly up for it for some time and after this game they hear their manager saying they need to take a hard look at themselves I think they would suggest the manager do the same. With the players we now have in the squad, if LJ cannot find a way to get the best out of them he should be moved on.

[City oz]

2 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I agree with the first point, and have made it on a lot of occasions. I also agree with parts of the rest.
 

There is, however, a thematic here. And reading the points, the word “safe” jumps out of the page. In addition to the Wolves game mentioned, remember Wigan - Tammys debut - where we threw everything at it and LJ described it as “gung ho”.

We’ve not been “gung ho” for a while now.

There is an interesting parallel which has come to mind for me, and that’s Danny Wilson. Similarly to LJ, he had us playing some really good football - attacking - and then we missed out in the playoffs. IIRC Wigan won the league grinding out 1-0’s. Next season, we went far more defensive and it ended with the Brighton game which we’d all rather forget.

Now, looking at your Wolves example. We were fantastic for the first half of that season playing an intense press, good football and seeking wins. Then we ran out of steam (and LJ got more players). Since then we’ve been gradually “safer” and duller.

I would argue that “LJ ball” is “Manager ball”. He’s tried the attacking energy option and didn’t quite make it so he’s gone safe, and it’s worse. Wilson did it. It’s not Johnson - it’s normal manager instinct. But it does question massively whether he can come back if it continues for 8 more games.

 

Well done Silvio. Good assessment of the first post and is more in true perspective 

[City oz]

1 hour ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

Have you seen city play in the top flight ? Do you really think LJ can bring this too the gate ? 

[Barry Sheene]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

Understand the point you are making but Lee will see those players day in day out.

We are all aware that the keeper has a mistake in him and I have a mate who is a  Brentford fan and those mistakes would be well documented before we signed him.  Maybe Lee thought him and his staff could coach these errors out of him. It is no coincidence that he had been dropped before lockdown.

As for opponents playing well he has the luxury at the moment of five subs which he then can go to plan B and change it if he has one.

I don't think any of us are experts but we can see what is happening at the football club and the same mistakes and error are being repeated.

We are so close and Lee must be congratulated on the job he has done but if we are to push on serious questions must be asked if he has the ability to get us across the line. In my humble opinion I don't think he has

[City oz]

1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

Same old story mate and no excuse. It’s time the club take things seriously and look for the future and not with a manager good at his job as LJ has peaked and can’t go further. Can’t remember now but the run In the cup a few years ago LJ was more concerned and made it public he had bought a bottle of the Best Portugal wine the opposing manager was reported to like. We are now at the end of an era at the gate where i would call it we almost did it but we didn’t. The reason is we have played average for the last six or seven months and still not improved. There are thousands of you on OTIB that are not working due to covert, that still and always love  the club, are worried about your season tickets and multiple tickets with other family members and its you guys that deserve something special to happen at the club and its not happening under this current regime.

the hard ship some of you die hard fans Are going though need to be commended some how.

Well its always been a big COYR from me but COYR supporters doing it tough at the moment. Keep your chins up and be proud and lets hope there is a change of some kind at the club where wee can all be proud of. 

[Kingswood Robin]

2 hours ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

Go for it. No problem with missing out by a point, a win and a loss is better than 2 draws. Carry on as we are and it really looks like the road to nowhere.

[Kibs]

2 hours ago, hodge said:

People talking about going all out for 8 games, would you be satisfied if LJ said it did so and we missed out by 1 point where a more conservative approach could have actually seen us over the line? Would people react by saying ‘oh well at least he went for it’ or ‘LJ missed the play offs so LJ out’ ? Easy for anyone on here to say to go for it when it’s not your job that is potentially on the line if he fails.

Honestly, I'm so beyond caring about the play-offs! I just want to see my team go out there with a bit of attacking intent, play with a bit of freedom rather than looking completely shackled and like every pass/run (ha ha I know) is completely scripted. It's so predictable, it's so boring, it's completely soul destroying to watch. Even if we did somehow fluke our way into the Play-Offs, I'd be terrified that someone like Brentford would beat us by 6 or 7 over the two legs anyway. The players have no confidence, because the manager doesn't instill it. 

My heart sank the second I saw the starting eleven on Saturday, and so what followed didn't surprise me one bit. I can't tell you how many times that's happened this season. 

[mozo]

2 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

As usual after a defeat, every footballing expert is coming out of the woodwork to teach the manager how to do his job.  It’s easy, isn’t it?  But how does a manger make sure that his keeper doesn’t drop the ball?  How does he legislate fir the opposition playing well?  I find it extraordinary that you find every single decision taken on the pitch by the players, every single move they make, every single the mistake, to be the responsibility of the manager.

I understand what Johnson is trying to do.  I can even understand his team selection on Saturday, which seemed designed to keep it tight for half the game or an hour, before making use of the additional substitutes to win the game, but how can you hold him entirely responsible if the team don’t deliver?  There’s no doubt things haven’t gone the way we would have wanted this season - the rejection by Nketiah; the injury to Afobe; the injury to Kalas; the sale of Brownhill; but hey, it’s only a game.  We have good young players coming through and the prospect of an exciting future, and in any case does anyone really want to get promotion to a Premier League played behind closed doors?

These are extraordinary times.  We have played one game and suddenly we have gone from optimism to abject defeatism and ritual abuse of the manager in the safe of 48 hours.  It’s so ****ing depressing.  It would be nice if people could control their anger and just try to enjoy what little football is available to us.  And please could people remember that this is real football, not some kids simulation game?  You are a supporter, you watch the game, but none of us really know that much about it, and we certainly don’t know more than the professionals.  It would be hilarious to see fans teaching managers how to do their jobs if it wasn’t so tragic.

You're living up to your name with that very rational and pragmatic post, however I would disagree a tad. Johnson, like any manager, is responsible for player errors. He selects them, coaches them, motivates them, defines their tactical instructions. He picked a keeper who had shown concentration issues in the friendly, and perhaps that was a mistake.

Of course individual errors will happen, but when the team as a unit is so chaotic and out of sorts, the blame has to land at Johnson's door. 

I'd bloody love it if he can turn this around, beginning with an impressive win over Shef Wednesday this weekend. 

But after a performance like that, any fan of any club would have a right to feel short changed.