you own two clubs

[where's the joy]

So you own two clubs, one rugby, one football.

In one you get relegated trying to run things on the cheap; so you hire the best coach you can find and give him full authority.

Suddenly your clubs in the running for the premiership title.

The other club you get relegated and then take a punt on a stroppy, opinionated manager. Who gives you the best season the club has ever had 

Next season he asks for a top striker, no other big money recruits, just a striker to give you 20 goals. Not even a full subs bench

You don't like him standing up to you, so you replace him with an unproven coach and watch mediocrity takes hold.

Not results, they are ok; but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

Yes we had the Bobby Reid transformation and for a while some crafty attractive football to watch. But since then?

The club have backed the coach with more clubs in his golf bag than any pro golfer could ever use and the result is too many players, too much mediocrity and a coach who can't shape a team.

If you described his performances as a player they would match his performance as a manager.....not enough snap in the tackle, not enough defensive steel, not enough pace, not enough goals and in a division too high for his skill level.

Please Mr Chairman use the next few weeks wisely, appoint his successor (as we will achieve nothing in the run in), so that the Chris Hughton style replacement can bed in and build a team to get us, as he has before, to the promised land............. before you are too old to enjoy it.

thank you 

[Roger Red Hat]

2 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

No, because it was going to get us relegated again. Personally, I think the first half of there cup run season with LJ is some of the best football I've seen at Ashton Gate. I also think LJ has had his chance, just like I thought SC had when he was fired.

[David Brent]

Really not worth comparing two different sports.

[Merrick's Marvels]

You say this hypothetical football manager gave the owner "the best season the club has ever had".

When was that then?

I only ask because I can think of quite a few seasons better than any provided by 'The Manager We Cannot Trust'.

  

[Lrrr]

38 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

the Chris Hughton style replacement

You want to use Chris Hughton as an example? Okay I'll use an example of someone describing Chris Hughton football

One of the biggest bugbears that Brighton supporters seem to have with Hughton is his negative approach to games, which is best summed up by the recent record-breaking 12 hours and 15 minutes that we managed to go without a goal. Connor tells us that Norwich fans had similar complaints.

“It’s fair to say it was negative. Norwich fans struggle to recall any performances under Hughton that provoke any ounce of excitement, to be honest. It was a particular problem given that he arrived after the club was playing such vibrant, fearless and attacking football under Paul Lambert. Attempting to win games converted into trying not to lose them, with the team becoming more structured and the football being overly pragmatic.”

http://www.wearebrighton.com/newsopinion/the-worrying-signs-that-history-is-repeating-itself-for-chris-hughton/

[glen humphries]

Just now, hodge said:

You want to use Chris Hughton as an example? Okay I'll use an example of someone describing Chris Hughton football

One of the biggest bugbears that Brighton supporters seem to have with Hughton is his negative approach to games, which is best summed up by the recent record-breaking 12 hours and 15 minutes that we managed to go without a goal. Connor tells us that Norwich fans had similar complaints.

“It’s fair to say it was negative. Norwich fans struggle to recall any performances under Hughton that provoke any ounce of excitement, to be honest. It was a particular problem given that he arrived after the club was playing such vibrant, fearless and attacking football under Paul Lambert. Attempting to win games converted into trying not to lose them, with the team becoming more structured and the football being overly pragmatic.”

http://www.wearebrighton.com/newsopinion/the-worrying-signs-that-history-is-repeating-itself-for-chris-hughton/

Hughtons achieved promotions playing so called negative football lj on the other hand has achieved nothing of note at 3 different clubs and for the last 2 seasons our home performances have been really poor and negative, if we have to watch negative football I’d prefer it if it was winning football.

[JBFC II]

10 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Hughtons achieved promotions playing so called negative football lj on the other hand has achieved nothing of note at 3 different clubs and for the last 2 seasons our home performances have been really poor and negative, if we have to watch negative football I’d prefer it if it was winning football.

To be honest I’d rather we were watching entertaining football which made me want to go to watch on a weekly basis. Obviously LJ hasn’t always provided that, but then hughton certainly isn’t known for it either. Promotion isn’t a massive deal for me as the prospect for being battered every week in the premier league doesn’t excite me, but what I want to see is exciting attacking football, not grinding out results a la Hughton and Warnock

[And Its Smith]

58 minutes ago, where's the joy said:

So you own two clubs, one rugby, one football.

In one you get relegated trying to run things on the cheap; so you hire the best coach you can find and give him full authority.

Suddenly your clubs in the running for the premiership title.

The other club you get relegated and then take a punt on a stroppy, opinionated manager. Who gives you the best season the club has ever had 

Next season he asks for a top striker, no other big money recruits, just a striker to give you 20 goals. Not even a full subs bench

You don't like him standing up to you, so you replace him with an unproven coach and watch mediocrity takes hold.

Not results, they are ok; but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

Yes we had the Bobby Reid transformation and for a while some crafty attractive football to watch. But since then?

The club have backed the coach with more clubs in his golf bag than any pro golfer could ever use and the result is too many players, too much mediocrity and a coach who can't shape a team.

If you described his performances as a player they would match his performance as a manager.....not enough snap in the tackle, not enough defensive steel, not enough pace, not enough goals and in a division too high for his skill level.

Please Mr Chairman use the next few weeks wisely, appoint his successor (as we will achieve nothing in the run in), so that the Chris Hughton style replacement can bed in and build a team to get us, as he has before, to the promised land............. before you are too old to enjoy it.

thank you 

If you have written a piece that wasn’t full of bias then it would have been better. 

[glen humphries]

Just now, JBFC II said:

To be honest I’d rather we were watching entertaining football which made me want to go to watch on a weekly basis. Obviously LJ hasn’t always provided that, but then hughton certainly isn’t known for it either. Promotion isn’t a massive deal for me as the prospect for being battered every week in the premier league doesn’t excite me, but what I want to see is exciting attacking football, not grinding out results a la Hughton and Warnock

Lj hasn’t always provided that, you’re being very kind there jb, we’ve been dire at home for nearly 2 seasons 

[JBFC II]

11 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Lj hasn’t always provided that, you’re being very kind there jb, we’ve been dire at home for nearly 2 seasons 

Which is why I said hasn’t always, but the home form in 2017 was brilliant, and some of the football sublime. Obviously it hasn’t been the same since but he has provided us with some sort of entertainment, and probably more than hughton would

[Lrrr]

17 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Lj hasn’t always provided that, you’re being very kind there jb, we’ve been dire at home for nearly 2 seasons 

LJ doesn't really need to come into the conversation except the sentence of 'whoever would be after LJ..... Then saying Chris Hughton is where the comments come from because its an implication we'd be seeing a different style.

[glen humphries]

8 minutes ago, JBFC II said:

Which is why I said hasn’t always, but the home form in 2017 was brilliant, and some of the football sublime. Obviously it hasn’t been the same since but he has provided us with some sort of entertainment, and probably more than hughton would

Out of interest what would you say our playing is ?.

[Chappers]

How many more ways can people Labour the same point? LJ has had to sell to buy, the squad is not ‘best ever’, some of last summers signings have not worked out (Be honest, Morrell and Walsh would probably have contributed as much as Massengo and Nagy), and the injury to Benik was unfortunate. Look on the bright side, who wants PL football with no/ few fans?

[glen humphries]

1 minute ago, Chappers said:

How many more ways can people Labour the same point? LJ has had to sell to buy, the squad is not ‘best ever’, some of last summers signings have not worked out (Be honest, Morrell and Walsh would probably have contributed as much as Massengo and Nagy), and the injury to Benik was unfortunate. Look on the bright side, who wants PL football with no/ few fans?

I’d take it in a heartbeat.

[RoystonFoote'snephew]

For me there are 2 LJs. One is LJ the son of his father, who shares his father's weakness worrying about setting up to stop the opposition rather than beating the opposition. This is the LJ we often see at home, and if you only go down the Gate it's what depresses you. 

The other LJ is the one that is his own man, free of the yoke of his father and the pressures if the Gate crowd, willing to take risks and shock. This is the LJ more often seen away from home, but not always. An example of this was our win at Fulham this season. Just about nobody expected the way we lined up and went for it, and while we had some luck perhaps Del Boys favourite motto of 'who dares wins' justified our victory. 

For the last 8 games of this season I'd like to see the second LJ. But I won't hold my breath. 

[GrahamC]

I liked Steve Cotterill a lot & supported him until the end & would have preferred it if we hadn’t sacked him.

However even as a fan of his, I know he is a spiky character & did himself few favours by not being more flexible. The season we got out of League One was brilliant, but it is nonsense to say (as the OP did) it was the best season of SL’s tenure, the current manager’s father got us to within one game from The Prem, FFS.

I am no big fan of LJ, but the cup run where we beat Man U & did excellently against Man C was exceptional & there has been progress, we haven’t looked likely to finish bottom half since his first season despite selling a lot of players for huge sums.

I do think we are at a crossroads but having backed LJ through much worse runs than this, I don’t expect a change any time soon, even if we do fall away again this year.

Hughton is actually a realistic shout, though. Apparently he has already held talks with Birmingham so as we are a similar club these days that isn’t far fetched. Personally I’d speak to Nigel Adkins if we had a vacancy, but there you go.

[pillred]

10 minutes ago, RoystonFoote'snephew said:

For me there are 2 LJs. One is LJ the son of his father, who shares his father's weakness worrying about setting up to stop the opposition rather than beating the opposition. This is the LJ we often see at home, and if you only go down the Gate it's what depresses you. 

The other LJ is the one that is his own man, free of the yoke of his father and the pressures if the Gate crowd, willing to take risks and shock. This is the LJ more often seen away from home, but not always. An example of this was our win at Fulham this season. Just about nobody expected the way we lined up and went for it, and while we had some luck perhaps Del Boys favourite motto of 'who dares wins' justified our victory. 

For the last 8 games of this season I'd like to see the second LJ. But I won't hold my breath. 

Chicory tip had a hit record in the seventies called son of my father,  the B side was called pride comes before a fall, spooky!!

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

2 hours ago, where's the joy said:

So you own two clubs, one rugby, one football.

In one you get relegated trying to run things on the cheap; so you hire the best coach you can find and give him full authority.

Suddenly your clubs in the running for the premiership title.

The other club you get relegated and then take a punt on a stroppy, opinionated manager. Who gives you the best season the club has ever had 

Next season he asks for a top striker, no other big money recruits, just a striker to give you 20 goals. Not even a full subs bench

You don't like him standing up to you, so you replace him with an unproven coach and watch mediocrity takes hold.

Not results, they are ok; but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

Yes we had the Bobby Reid transformation and for a while some crafty attractive football to watch. But since then?

The club have backed the coach with more clubs in his golf bag than any pro golfer could ever use and the result is too many players, too much mediocrity and a coach who can't shape a team.

If you described his performances as a player they would match his performance as a manager.....not enough snap in the tackle, not enough defensive steel, not enough pace, not enough goals and in a division too high for his skill level.

Please Mr Chairman use the next few weeks wisely, appoint his successor (as we will achieve nothing in the run in), so that the Chris Hughton style replacement can bed in and build a team to get us, as he has before, to the promised land............. before you are too old to enjoy it.

thank you 

Are you posting this just to impress other people on the forum, or do you really think that Steve Lansdown will read and take notice of it?  If the latter, why do you think Steve Lansdown should take special notice of your opinions?

The fact is that you don’t speak for all City supporters, so if you want to influence Steve, why don’t you just write him a letter (remember those?)?  These ‘open letters’ are a bit embarrassing when they come from only one person.

Look, we’ve all been through a difficult time.  Football is in a strange place and is presently not the game we’re used to.  We’ve had one match since an enforced three month break, and because of the outcome of that one match (because after all most of us were feeling quite optimistic before the Blackburn game) you’re preaching to someone who knows more about football than you do.  Give it a rest, see out the rest of the season, and then is the time to start ripping your club to shreds (if that’s what you want to do), not now. Now is the time to get behind the club at a particularly difficult time for all clubs.

[cidered abroad]

2 hours ago, David Brent said:

Really not worth comparing two different sports.

Why not compare how the two Head Coaches go about theor business?

Pat Lam has the team playing attacking rugby, aiming to score plenty of thrilling tries yet he has improved the defensive side of the squad beyond belief. He allows players to use their talent and initiative during games with moves that sometimes break down but when it works, it can be very exciting to watch. He never criticises players publicly.

On the other hand, we have LJ. The team look scared to do anything but the safe and easy way. Keeping the ball by playing it backwards and sideways. The attacking part of the team is almost non existent with only one or two attempts on target. I could go on but you get the gist. And LJ publically hangs players out to dry on a more regular basis than most launderies.

I go to both and the buzz in the crowd at Bristol Bears games is spine tingling. City's home faithful are having to work hard to stay awake at games.

[CyderInACan]

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Why not compare how the two Head Coaches go about theor business?

Pat Lam has the team playing attacking rugby, aiming to score plenty of thrilling tries yet he has improved the defensive side of the squad beyond belief. He allows players to use their talent and initiative during games with moves that sometimes break down but when it works, it can be very exciting to watch. He never criticises players publicly.

On the other hand, we have LJ. The team look scared to do anything but the safe and easy way. Keeping the ball by playing it backwards and sideways. The attacking part of the team is almost non existent with only one or two attempts on target. I could go on but you get the gist. And LJ publically hangs players out to dry on a more regular basis than most launderies.

I go to both and the buzz in the crowd at Bristol Bears games is spine tingling. City's home faithful are having to work hard to stay awake at games.

I reckon you could put Pat in charge of the City right now and we’d get in the playoffs. No doubt about it. He’d let others devise the tactics, of course, but he’d make those lads walk out onto the pitch feeling like world beaters. The bloke is truly inspiring 

[Lez]

1 hour ago, Chappers said:

How many more ways can people Labour the same point? LJ has had to sell to buy, the squad is not ‘best ever’, some of last summers signings have not worked out (Be honest, Morrell and Walsh would probably have contributed as much as Massengo and Nagy), and the injury to Benik was unfortunate. Look on the bright side, who wants PL football with no/ few fans?

And hes brought crap. A lot of it.

[southvillekiddy]

3 hours ago, where's the joy said:

So you own two clubs, one rugby, one football.

In one you get relegated trying to run things on the cheap; so you hire the best coach you can find and give him full authority.

Suddenly your clubs in the running for the premiership title.

The other club you get relegated and then take a punt on a stroppy, opinionated manager. Who gives you the best season the club has ever had 

Next season he asks for a top striker, no other big money recruits, just a striker to give you 20 goals. Not even a full subs bench

You don't like him standing up to you, so you replace him with an unproven coach and watch mediocrity takes hold.

Not results, they are ok; but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

Yes we had the Bobby Reid transformation and for a while some crafty attractive football to watch. But since then?

The club have backed the coach with more clubs in his golf bag than any pro golfer could ever use and the result is too many players, too much mediocrity and a coach who can't shape a team.

If you described his performances as a player they would match his performance as a manager.....not enough snap in the tackle, not enough defensive steel, not enough pace, not enough goals and in a division too high for his skill level.

Please Mr Chairman use the next few weeks wisely, appoint his successor (as we will achieve nothing in the run in), so that the Chris Hughton style replacement can bed in and build a team to get us, as he has before, to the promised land............. before you are too old to enjoy it.

thank you 

This is so right. SL isn't prepared to appoint anyone challenging and qualified to take us to the Premiership because he believes he knows best about BCFC and therefore wants to boss everything. So maybe the difference between the running of the "two Clubs" is that our beloved fuhrer thinks he knows a lot about football but is prepared to admit that he knows little about rugby?

[JBFC II]

2 hours ago, glen humphries said:

Out of interest what would you say our playing is ?.

To be honest, I’ve got no idea. But I certainly know it wouldn’t be any better under Hughton 

[Fuber]

One of my gripes with LJ is that he was bought into develop players from the academy, this did quite well his first 2 season in charge. No though? Instead we're been getting in wasters in on short terms contracts that, while shorter term are better quality, block development of the players who could be acclimatised to Championship football now. I.e. Walsh, Morrell, Moore, O'Leary. If we had played with those four this season and been where we are I'd have little to complain about. Instead we've spent £14m, including instalments, and further wages between the likes of Massengo, Nagy, Bentley, Williams.

For what?

I can't support LJ spending what he does on some of these players, when he doesnt support those he has here already, many of whom he signed - specifically Walsh, Adelakun, Szmodics, Moore, Bakinson, who also cost a further £3-4m total, add in other players we are unlikely to profit from, Weimann, Hunt, Bentley, Wells, circa £15m spent with limited chance of return. We did incredibly well to get the fees we did for Brownhill and Kelly, as imho they were never worth the fees we were given, and neither were playing well in the lead up to interest in them, so props has to go to Ashton for that. The same scouting team & Ashton also get huge credit for Webster, and of those three the only one that was signed by LJ, on whom he had a significant impact, was Brownhill.

The only other (main) two, are Lack of Identity/Playstyle and his deflection of criticism onto his players.

Difference is, no matter the source of the income, LJ has an actual squad he's built; as a comparison Millen (Yes, Millen), for the most part, had a load of crap he inhereted from the fallout of Coppell and some last minute signings (all of which were decent on paper, considering, - Stead, Pitman, Caulker, Rose). Millen got that squad to, somehow, finish lower mid-table (15th) 15pts off PO, 18pts above relegation, then got told to cut costs further - leading to his eventual demise after a poor start the following season. The longer LJ stay's in charge, the more I'm admiring Millen's stint as manager firefighting the damage of Hurricane Coppell - not a good sign, and highlights the regression and errors in decision making over the last few years.

Millen's team managed to finish that 2011 season, with a -3 goal difference, scoring 62 goals, with a strikeforce of Stead, Pitman, and Clarkson. Yes, the league is much different and (contextually) stronger now, but so are we to a much greater degree (and much more sustainable), If LJ can't manage that with the likes of (a now fit upfront) including Wells, Diedhiou, Eliasson, Weimann, & Afobe?  Big Yikes.

I hope LJ turns it around - as oustide of the Cup run - the last near three years have been a nothing period of utterly inconsistent performances including some truly dreadful spells that would have seen most other managers in this league sacked - the enjoyment has been sucked out of the football completely instead of slightly adapting a decent fluid counter-pressing system that we had 30 months ago. The squad we have now, on paper, is the strongest I've seen City build in my lifetime, so the business side I'd say we're effective in the transfer market, yet we're - as a team - playing worse football now than we were under Millen 9 years ago. At least Millen took responsibility.

For those people saying LJ has to sell players, or, 'we're a selling club' - name me one club who isn't in this league? We all are, Brentford sold the likes of Bentley, Maupauy and Konsa, only to then sign the likes of Raya, Pinnock, and M'Buemo for 1/3rd of the cost; the only exception I can think of is not a club, it's said clubs manager, and that's Leeds with Bielsa re Phillips, who gets to the point and lets the evidence speak for itself in their performances, not useless waffle and management speak like your name is David Brent.

Annoyingly, my ideal manager shout, Roger Schmidt, has gone to PSV for next season, so my hopes have been ruthlessly crushed. So my only three shouts are Nigel Adkins, Darren Moore, and Mark Robins as preferred choices at this moment in time, although that may change as I can see Wagner leaving Schalke, or Jokanovic at a stretch??

[Oh Louie louie]

Millen didnt do bad to keep up with that team.

Clarkson, stead, pitman.

Stead was the only 1 looked ok at that level.

im amazed that team scored 62 goals.

[Dolman_Stand]

13 hours ago, where's the joy said:

So you own two clubs, one rugby, one football.

In one you get relegated trying to run things on the cheap; so you hire the best coach you can find and give him full authority.

Suddenly your clubs in the running for the premiership title.

The other club you get relegated and then take a punt on a stroppy, opinionated manager. Who gives you the best season the club has ever had 

Next season he asks for a top striker, no other big money recruits, just a striker to give you 20 goals. Not even a full subs bench

You don't like him standing up to you, so you replace him with an unproven coach and watch mediocrity takes hold.

Not results, they are ok; but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

Yes we had the Bobby Reid transformation and for a while some crafty attractive football to watch. But since then?

The club have backed the coach with more clubs in his golf bag than any pro golfer could ever use and the result is too many players, too much mediocrity and a coach who can't shape a team.

If you described his performances as a player they would match his performance as a manager.....not enough snap in the tackle, not enough defensive steel, not enough pace, not enough goals and in a division too high for his skill level.

Please Mr Chairman use the next few weeks wisely, appoint his successor (as we will achieve nothing in the run in), so that the Chris Hughton style replacement can bed in and build a team to get us, as he has before, to the promised land............. before you are too old to enjoy it.

thank you 

As good as it was it wasn't the best season we have ever had, 2008 was far better. He signed Kodjia who I believe got 20 goals the following season (or close to?) and we were still heading towards the relegation places so somethign hadd to change and it wasn't going to be Lansdown. Also worth noting that the promotion seasons squad was assembled in part by Mark Ashton which would have come into SL's thinking.

The first half of th 2017 season was the bets football I think I've ever seen at AG culminating in the win over United, sadly the sqaud didn't have the legs to see it through and since then the football standard and style have both regressed in art due to the contiunual churn of players, this "churn" isn't all down to LJ as some would have you believe as the clubs sustainability model does require key players to be sold periodically.

I think this summer is a crossroads for the club in terms of whether to stick or twist, how strongly we finish this season may well dictate what happens and too many more Blackburn performances may see LJ out the door at the end of the season.

 

[CyderInACan]

9 minutes ago, Dolman_Stand said:

this "churn" isn't all down to LJ as some would have you believe as the clubs sustainability model does require key players to be sold periodically.

What if we start running out of quality players to sell - what then!?

[Silvio Dante]

The thing is, the Pat Lam comparison doesn’t really hold water if you’re comparing him to people like Hughton.

Pat Lam, prior to Bristol, had won the pro12 in Ireland with Connacht, coached at international level and won trophies with Auckland Blues in NZ. That’s after a glittering playing career. No doubt whatsoever he could have gone to a bigger club than Bristol - but he did because the potential of Bristol RFC is bigger than most of the country - that’s not the case with us.

If you want an accurate Pat Lam comparison, you’re probably talking something close to Pep Guardiola. Would he come here? No way.

Its fine to want LJ replaced. But the Lam/Bears comparison that people are making is just nonsense. In a football sense he’s a coach out of our league who wouldn’t be attracted by the potential because our ceiling isn’t as high.

[Dolman_Stand]

11 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

What if we start running out of quality players to sell - what then!?

We haven't as yet, from the current squad I would imagine Bentley (forgetting Saturday), Dasilva, Eliasson, Massengo and Diedhiou would all fetch significant transfer fee's.

[BS4 on Tour...]

14 hours ago, where's the joy said:

So you own two clubs, one rugby, one football.

In one you get relegated trying to run things on the cheap; so you hire the best coach you can find and give him full authority.

Suddenly your clubs in the running for the premiership title.

The other club you get relegated and then take a punt on a stroppy, opinionated manager. Who gives you the best season the club has ever had 

Next season he asks for a top striker, no other big money recruits, just a striker to give you 20 goals. Not even a full subs bench

You don't like him standing up to you, so you replace him with an unproven coach and watch mediocrity takes hold.

Not results, they are ok; but the brand of buccaneering football that Cotterill gave us has not been seen since.

Yes we had the Bobby Reid transformation and for a while some crafty attractive football to watch. But since then?

The club have backed the coach with more clubs in his golf bag than any pro golfer could ever use and the result is too many players, too much mediocrity and a coach who can't shape a team.

If you described his performances as a player they would match his performance as a manager.....not enough snap in the tackle, not enough defensive steel, not enough pace, not enough goals and in a division too high for his skill level.

Please Mr Chairman use the next few weeks wisely, appoint his successor (as we will achieve nothing in the run in), so that the Chris Hughton style replacement can bed in and build a team to get us, as he has before, to the promised land............. before you are too old to enjoy it.

thank you 

I will never belittle Cotts’ achievements - but winning league one was not “the best season the club has ever had” - surely you’re aware we’ve finished 2nd in the top flight and have reached the FA Cup Final?