Players I can trust XI

[Bristol Oil Services]

1 hour ago, SODS_LAW said:

Well the ethos currently seems to be poor dire football and seeing how few shots you can have in a game.

get your best players in and let them play it’s that simple. I don’t mind losing 3-1 if we had a positive team out but what we seen Saturday was shocking.

This is the end product, the outcome, not the ethos.

The easy bit is coming up with/copying someone else's ethos (the theory); what Lee struggles with is converting words, ideas and intentions into actions and outcomes on a Saturday (the practice). Like most coaches.

[Roe]

2 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

This might explain why CO'D is in the team currently, and the likes of Palmer not.

If Palmer is paying attention then it is not difficult to work out what he must do to be "trusted" and get back in the team: run around loads, every time, all the time, hassle opponents, be energetic, and work bloody hard.

And do it now, in June/July, during a heatwave.

See I think this is part of why we're not getting the best out of Palmer though.  He keeps getting told he's not fit enough, doesn't work hard enough etc.  Quite often this season when he has played I've seen him running around like a lunatic, picking up needless bookings and wasting energy, ending up out of position as a result.  Why? Because that's not what he's good at.

On Saturday when he came on, he sat really deep.  As Blackburn were comfortable and could sit back at this time that meant he almost always had 11 opposition players in front of him limiting his options and making him ineffective and useless impact sub.

It's disappointing, and worrying, that after more than a year of working with Kasey Palmer, the coaching team seem to have no idea what he's actually good at and how to use him effectively.

[LondonBristolian]

I think I'd go

Maenpaa

Pereira

Vyner (realise this is a massive gamble but feel three at the back needs a player who can step into midfield, which it sounds like he can do)

Kalas

Baker

JD

Nagy (assuming he is available and his absence was beyond his control)

Smith

Palmer

Afobe

Wells

 

Bench:

Bentley

Hunt

Williams

Rowe

HNM

Eliasson

Weimann

Diedhiou

Watkins

 

[LondonBristolian]

52 minutes ago, Roe said:

See I think this is part of why we're not getting the best out of Palmer though.  He keeps getting told he's not fit enough, doesn't work hard enough etc.  Quite often this season when he has played I've seen him running around like a lunatic, picking up needless bookings and wasting energy, ending up out of position as a result.  Why? Because that's not what he's good at.

On Saturday when he came on, he sat really deep.  As Blackburn were comfortable and could sit back at this time that meant he almost always had 11 opposition players in front of him limiting his options and making him ineffective and useless impact sub.

It's disappointing, and worrying, that after more than a year of working with Kasey Palmer, the coaching team seem to have no idea what he's actually good at and how to use him effectively.

I think this is a problem with a lot of our players though. I think LJ probably is, in many ways, a good coach and that he does teach players to work on different sides to their game but I think that does it in a way that seems to inhibit the natural talent of the players. I think LJ gets more right than wrong and I'd rather he developed as a manager than that we made a change but I do wish that, even as he develops them on the training pitch, he would try to let the players go out and do what they are good at rather than focus on what they can't.

In particular now, we've got eight games in a month where all that matters is we get results. Even if LJ has things he wants to work on over pre-season or the course of the season, I really think, for the next four weeks, it should just be a case of finding a way to get eleven players on the pitch playing to the best of their ability. And I think that has to involve focusing on where the players strengths lie and playing to those rather than worrying about what the players might be able to do in eight months time with a bit of coaching. Long-term planning and talent development is great but sometimes it is all about achieving what you can in the here and now. 

[PFree]

As important, players who trust LJ and therefore give absolutely everything for him..?

Weimann..

Anybody else...?

[Lew-T]

I’m actually surprised that somebody of LJ’s intelligence to say something like that. As a player something like that would surely get your back up, causing a bit of anxiety amongst the group.

It’s totally unnecessary and something we don’t need in a run in like this.

[Red Grovesy]

2 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

You don't want yer keeper getting or acting too "busy," or hyperactive, think Maenpaa is more steady, and "rock" like, than "Bents," so I reckon ten busy bees, one rock.

And then, yer centre halves, you don't want "busy bee" centre halves either, following the bloody ball hither and tither. You want them pretty steady, too.

So, to sum up: 8 busy bees, two steady Eddies, and one unflappable rock. 

Can't disagree, but I think you got the gist of my post. Lee loves 'busy bees'.

[Oh Louie louie]

I think 2 of the chelsea signing will move on this summer.

Its obvious 1 of them doesnt see eye to eye with lj, what came out before the shrewsbury game.

His agent will be looking to move him on this summer, by those soundbites.

They both cant be happy with game time.

[Lew-T]

Can you imagine Wilder, Cotts or Warnock say something like that? No, because they can handle the man management side of things and have the players full respect. 
 

Lee Johnson would really be better off as young academy coach at a big club imo. He doesn’t have the managerial ability to earn the respect off the players if that makes sense.
 

 

 

[cidered abroad]

3 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Can you imagine Wilder, Cotts or Warnock say something like that? No, because they can handle the man management side of things and have the players full respect. 
 

Lee Johnson would really be better off as young academy coach at a big club imo. He doesn’t have the managerial ability to earn the respect off the players if that makes sense.
 

 

 

Perfectly clear to me from the time his father arrived here.

Both of them are clever enough to be able to manage up to third tier level. However, when it comes to those who have played internationally, in the top leagues of European countries, they, IMO, do not have the ability or stature to manage them.

Old saying in football:-What's the difference between a Premier League player and one from League Two?

The top two inches! Also applies to players and Managers/Head Coaches.

[RidgeRed]

I decided a while back that coaching, "teaching"  players, particularly at youth/academy level is where Lee would be best suited. The whole "management" thing, even though he doesn't have that title, is beyond him as it is with other football managerial appointments. Woodgate maybe the most recent example. Think it's time our owner & others realised this & made the change.

[Midred]

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

4

7

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34 

44

46

48

And the bonus ball is....?

[LondonBristolian]

3 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

Perfectly clear to me from the time his father arrived here.

Both of them are clever enough to be able to manage up to third tier level. However, when it comes to those who have played internationally, in the top leagues of European countries, they, IMO, do not have the ability or stature to manage them.

Old saying in football:-What's the difference between a Premier League player and one from League Two?

The top two inches! Also applies to players and Managers/Head Coaches.

Not sure I agree with this.

For a start, there is absolutely no doubt Lee Johnson can manage in this division. He's been doing it for four and a half years now and has had more good results than bad. There is certainly a reasonable conversation about whether he is good enough to get a team promoted from this division but I think it is pretty unfair and inaccurate to suggest he's not done a reasonable job of keeping us stable in this division. Similarly, if he left us, he'd get offers from Championship clubs. Very possibly lower mid-table ones rather than ones angling for promotion but he certainly has shown he can manage at this level.

Also I think the "top two inches" is not an old saying but a phrase coined by a sports psychologist and self-proclaimed guru fairly recently around extra sporting intelligence and getting a bit extra out of players. But I actually think where LJ is a bit of anomaly is that I don't think the issue is his ability to grasp and implement the "top two inches". It is clear he studies theories of sporting intelligence and performance and implements what he learns. The issue to my mind is that he is actually an example of where absorbing performance techniques and the "top two inches" can go a bit wrong. He is so busy trying to get the "top two inches" out of players that he frequently neglects the basics and ultimately, when you get the "top two inches" and nothing else, two inches is all you are left with. I don't think the problem is an inability to learn and grasp what he needs to do to be a top manager so much as that he frequently focuses on the clever and the complex to an extent that he forgets the simpler side of it. 

In that sense, I think GJ and LJ are very much opposites as managers. I think Gary Johnson was a limited manager who didn't really embrace the tactical or elite performance of the game but could get eleven players on a pitch performing the basics to the best of their ability whereas Lee Johnson is an intelligent inquisitive manager who loves complexity and nuance but frequently bamboozles the team and over-complicates the game as a result. If you combined the two you could get a superb motivator with an inquiry mind who was an utterly superb manager if you were lucky r a limited tactician with little insight into the game who completely confuses his own team if you were not. 

[ChubStixx]

53 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

Not sure I agree with this.

For a start, there is absolutely no doubt Lee Johnson can manage in this division. He's been doing it for four and a half years now and has had more good results than bad. There is certainly a reasonable conversation about whether he is good enough to get a team promoted from this division but I think it is pretty unfair and inaccurate to suggest he's not done a reasonable job of keeping us stable in this division. Similarly, if he left us, he'd get offers from Championship clubs. Very possibly lower mid-table ones rather than ones angling for promotion but he certainly has shown he can manage at this level.

Also I think the "top two inches" is not an old saying but a phrase coined by a sports psychologist and self-proclaimed guru fairly recently around extra sporting intelligence and getting a bit extra out of players. But I actually think where LJ is a bit of anomaly is that I don't think the issue is his ability to grasp and implement the "top two inches". It is clear he studies theories of sporting intelligence and performance and implements what he learns. The issue to my mind is that he is actually an example of where absorbing performance techniques and the "top two inches" can go a bit wrong. He is so busy trying to get the "top two inches" out of players that he frequently neglects the basics and ultimately, when you get the "top two inches" and nothing else, two inches is all you are left with. I don't think the problem is an inability to learn and grasp what he needs to do to be a top manager so much as that he frequently focuses on the clever and the complex to an extent that he forgets the simpler side of it. 

In that sense, I think GJ and LJ are very much opposites as managers. I think Gary Johnson was a limited manager who didn't really embrace the tactical or elite performance of the game but could get eleven players on a pitch performing the basics to the best of their ability whereas Lee Johnson is an intelligent inquisitive manager who loves complexity and nuance but frequently bamboozles the team and over-complicates the game as a result. If you combined the two you could get a superb motivator with an inquiry mind who was an utterly superb manager if you were lucky r a limited tactician with little insight into the game who completely confuses his own team if you were not. 

Agree with all of this. Nicely summed up.

[BigTone]

1 hour ago, Midred said:

And the bonus ball is....?

196

[pearlstreetrob]

I very rarely post, preferring to watch from afar but am so concerned at the ongoing poor performances that I feel the need to comment. Essentially, If you don’t trust your employees, they will not trust you.  Simple rule of good management is to build honesty, integrity and trust with your staff, without which you  will fail in whatever enterprise you are trying to achieve.  It appears that Lee Johnson has yet again broken this rule and consequently  more of the same outcomes will continue. From a personal perspective, I do not like the club sacking managers, but given the dull and  unattractive performances over the last 2 years, enough is enough and the Board of Directors need thank Lee for his service and look to appoint someone with a track record of delivering success in the Championship. 

[Midred]

32 minutes ago, BigTone said:

196

Imagine Lee having that many players to pick from!

[Bristol Oil Services]

12 minutes ago, Midred said:

Imagine Lee having that many players to pick from!

He has, since Feb '16....

[Davefevs]

4 hours ago, Roe said:

See I think this is part of why we're not getting the best out of Palmer though.  He keeps getting told he's not fit enough, doesn't work hard enough etc.  Quite often this season when he has played I've seen him running around like a lunatic, picking up needless bookings and wasting energy, ending up out of position as a result.  Why? Because that's not what he's good at.

On Saturday when he came on, he sat really deep.  As Blackburn were comfortable and could sit back at this time that meant he almost always had 11 opposition players in front of him limiting his options and making him ineffective and useless impact sub.

It's disappointing, and worrying, that after more than a year of working with Kasey Palmer, the coaching team seem to have no idea what he's actually good at and how to use him effectively.

Really like this post.  You are right, Palmer isn’t lazy, he just doesn’t know how to press and sometimes tries to “play in the wrong areas”.

2 hours ago, RidgeRed said:

I decided a while back that coaching, "teaching"  players, particularly at youth/academy level is where Lee would be best suited. The whole "management" thing, even though he doesn't have that title, is beyond him as it is with other football managerial appointments. Woodgate maybe the most recent example. Think it's time our owner & others realised this & made the change.

I think he missed being a number two.  He’s not seen the other side, where sometimes your view is ignored, because the manager knows best (in their head!).  He’s not experienced that.

Even if Pep or Jose or Gareth offered him a no2 role he’d turn it down, as he’d think it beneath him....failing to see the Biggs picture.  It might be the best route to becoming a Prem manager.

[RedRock]

7 hours ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

In December Lee said of Weimann: "He's such a good lad, I trust him with my life." And went on to explain this was because, to put it plainly, he will run about a lot and hassle the opposition. Consistently. 

Lee said: "I've got to put a team out that I trust is adhering to the Bristol City ethos and is going to put on an extremely consistent performance in terms of energy and work rate."

This might explain why CO'D is in the team currently, and the likes of Palmer not.

If Palmer is paying attention then it is not difficult to work out what he must do to be "trusted" and get back in the team: run around loads, every time, all the time, hassle opponents, be energetic, and work bloody hard.

And do it now, in June/July, during a heatwave.

 

Worryingly, after a three month break in the first game back, with a play-off place to go for, Lee could not inspire/cajole/enforce/motivate his team to do the bottom line basics of running around with energy and working hard. 

 

 

...and therein lies a massive problem. 

Neither CoD or Palmer are going to be integral to the side that get us promoted.

 

LJ clearly rates CoD. He may well be brilliant in training against the load of lightweights LJ has acquired, but come Saturday against real men ...delivers nothing. 

Now, I’m no fan of Palmer but I think he may deliver something....very occasionally. 

 

The most worrying aspect of it all. I would trust those players that LJ inherited from Cotts a lot more than those that make up the bloated squad that LJ is going to leave us with. Astonishing really. 

[Davefevs]

1 hour ago, RedRock said:

...and therein lies a massive problem. 

Neither CoD or Palmer are going to be integral to the side that get us promoted.

 

LJ clearly rates CoD. He may well be brilliant in training against the load of lightweights LJ has acquired, but come Saturday against real men ...delivers nothing. 

Now, I’m no fan of Palmer but I think he may deliver something....very occasionally. 

 

The most worrying aspect of it all. I would trust those players that LJ inherited from Cotts a lot more than those that make up the bloated squad that LJ is going to leave us with. Astonishing really. 

Palmer got a couple of assists and a goal in the first 6/7 games he played this season, predominantly in a 5212 (bar Leeds and Boro)....before LJ started leaving him out, picking him inconsistently.

The last time he started two on the trot was PNE (a) and Brentford (a)....two draws not bad away.

 

[Hampshire reds]

its ok johnson saying the players he can trust. i think its more the other way round do the player's trust johnson. i think not. 

[cidered abroad]

18 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Not sure I agree with this.

For a start, there is absolutely no doubt Lee Johnson can manage in this division. He's been doing it for four and a half years now and has had more good results than bad. There is certainly a reasonable conversation about whether he is good enough to get a team promoted from this division but I think it is pretty unfair and inaccurate to suggest he's not done a reasonable job of keeping us stable in this division. Similarly, if he left us, he'd get offers from Championship clubs. Very possibly lower mid-table ones rather than ones angling for promotion but he certainly has shown he can manage at this level.

Also I think the "top two inches" is not an old saying but a phrase coined by a sports psychologist and self-proclaimed guru fairly recently around extra sporting intelligence and getting a bit extra out of players. But I actually think where LJ is a bit of anomaly is that I don't think the issue is his ability to grasp and implement the "top two inches". It is clear he studies theories of sporting intelligence and performance and implements what he learns. The issue to my mind is that he is actually an example of where absorbing performance techniques and the "top two inches" can go a bit wrong. He is so busy trying to get the "top two inches" out of players that he frequently neglects the basics and ultimately, when you get the "top two inches" and nothing else, two inches is all you are left with. I don't think the problem is an inability to learn and grasp what he needs to do to be a top manager so much as that he frequently focuses on the clever and the complex to an extent that he forgets the simpler side of it. 

In that sense, I think GJ and LJ are very much opposites as managers. I think Gary Johnson was a limited manager who didn't really embrace the tactical or elite performance of the game but could get eleven players on a pitch performing the basics to the best of their ability whereas Lee Johnson is an intelligent inquisitive manager who loves complexity and nuance but frequently bamboozles the team and over-complicates the game as a result. If you combined the two you could get a superb motivator with an inquiry mind who was an utterly superb manager if you were lucky r a limited tactician with little insight into the game who completely confuses his own team if you were not. 

I first heard about the top two inches around fifty years ago.

[LondonBristolian]

42 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

I first heard about the top two inches around fifty years ago.

Fair enough. I'll accept I'm wrong on that particular part of my post. Thanks for the clarification. 

[southvillekiddy]

22 hours ago, cidered abroad said:

Perfectly clear to me from the time his father arrived here.

Both of them are clever enough to be able to manage up to third tier level. However, when it comes to those who have played internationally, in the top leagues of European countries, they, IMO, do not have the ability or stature to manage them.

Old saying in football:-What's the difference between a Premier League player and one from League Two?

The top two inches! Also applies to players and Managers/Head Coaches.

Lack of ability and stature. Spot on mate.

[Swede]

Players he can "trust" is an interesting comment seen as any player that signs has to fit in with the Bristol City blue print or criteria so should be, I would've thought "trustworthy" already.

But as a guess I would say;

Maenpaa 

Hunt

Dasilva

Williams

(He'll have to trust one other!)

Weimann

Smith

(He'll have to trust one other!)

Paterson

Watkins

Afobe

Win loose or draw is an exceptible part of football but it was the manner of defeat that the majority of fans can't except

I think he's already under pressure and he knows it.

[Berkshire Red]

How about a manager the fans can trust 

[WECANDO]

On 24/06/2020 at 11:42, David Brent said:

He will have to sign a new starting XI if he wants players he can trust. 

I think we can trust most players but not the manager.

[Bristol Oil Services]

On 24/06/2020 at 11:28, Davefevs said:

Perhaps the team needs to be “the players I trust....this week”.

 

On the 1st of May, this year, on the official club's own website, Lee said:

"The lads have been so great so far ..... we have a fit, young, athletic group, and I trust them." 

Seven weeks (and one game) later and Lee's "trust" has shifted, or does not now run to the whole group, so I think you could be on to something there, Davefevs. 

I think when Lee next talks about "trust" a pinch of salt, and perhaps a roll of the eyes, might be in order.

[Davefevs]

31 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

On the 1st of May, this year, on the official club's own website, Lee said:

"The lads have been so great so far ..... we have a fit, young, athletic group, and I trust them." 

Seven weeks (and one game) later and Lee's "trust" has shifted, or does not now run to the whole group, so I think you could be on to something there, Davefevs. 

I think when Lee next talks about "trust" a pinch of salt, and perhaps a roll of the eyes, might be in order.

It’s a weak excuse, full stop, in my opinion.

As a player you wouldn't know if you were coming or going.