GrahamC Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Having looked at those 5 criteria I cannot see that we can use any of our returning loan players unless in addition to Henriksen departing next week & Pereira being injured, we lose some more players. A couple of Championship sides have failed to name 9 subs in games since the restart, but with the likes of Weimann, Watkins & Nagy not even making the bench at Blackburn & presumably all available on Sunday, we will struggle to argue that is a problem for us. I do read the rule that they have to have made a first team appearance as more ambiguous though, it doesn’t seem to specify which season, meaning both Morrell & Walsh are at least eligible for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berkshire Red Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 14 hours ago, hodge said: Yeah don't see any starting, the best we could expect would be 30 mins probably and even then I wouldn't expect them to play this weekend or Tuesday to give them time to get even close to up to speed. Dont forget we must also be 2+ goals down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 14 hours ago, Prinny said: Be VERY interesting to see who's in shape out of the loanees. Professionalism test. Bizarre comment. They've been on holiday with no indication of a changing of rules that would allow them to play again this season. So in what way is it a professionalism test? Correct me if i'm wrong, but if we are allowed to replace Henriksen with one player, won't it be Moore who has already played for us this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 15 minutes ago, marcofisher said: Bizarre comment. They've been on holiday with no indication of a changing of rules that would allow them to play again this season. So in what way is it a professionalism test? Correct me if i'm wrong, but if we are allowed to replace Henriksen with one player, won't it be Moore who has already played for us this season? 14 hours ago, Prinny said: Nah, it was confirmed 9th of June that L1+L2 were over for the season. The work they put in will hold over. You need to read the second comment. It's not anything surrounding them coming and playing for us, it's that it's only been two weeks since it was confirmed their season ended. So they had roughly 3 months of training on their own they had to do for their loan clubs. How well they did that, will carry on into them being fit for us (if available) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 24 minutes ago, Prinny said: You need to read the second comment. It's not anything surrounding them coming and playing for us, it's that it's only been two weeks since it was confirmed their season ended. So they had roughly 3 months of training on their own they had to do for their loan clubs. How well they did that, will carry on into them being fit for us (if available) Put it this way it be 3 weeks less than our existing squad have. Eagerly awaiting the publication of the rules, there was nothing on EFL site last night or this morning. I do think anyone who thinks Liam Walsh will / should start on Sunday is being hopeful. They haven’t been through the testing protocol yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prinny Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Davefevs said: Put it this way it be 3 weeks less than our existing squad have. Eagerly awaiting the publication of the rules, there was nothing on EFL site last night or this morning. I do think anyone who thinks Liam Walsh will / should start on Sunday is being hopeful. They haven’t been through the testing protocol yet. Right, I agree completely. But it's obvious, that how much effort (professionalism) they put in during their "holiday" will impact how quickly or if at all they can contribute for us. Just like Benik Afobe, how professionally he took his injury and rehab directly impacts how quickly he can get back. Professionalism test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Walsh is up North playing Golf today. If he was to play I'm sure LJ would had him in training today. Disappointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selred Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Also looks like he was at Anfield last night celebrating. Not the best message to send. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 31 minutes ago, Prinny said: Right, I agree completely. But it's obvious, that how much effort (professionalism) they put in during their "holiday" will impact how quickly or if at all they can contribute for us. Just like Benik Afobe, how professionally he took his injury and rehab directly impacts how quickly he can get back. Professionalism test. Yes, agreed. 19 minutes ago, Selred said: Walsh is up North playing Golf today. If he was to play I'm sure LJ would had him in training today. Disappointing. In which case he isn’t following instructions given to him to get himself ready “just in case”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unan Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Detailed Scout Report of his season https://eflanalysis.com/analysis/liam-walsh-2019-20-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Selred said: Walsh is up North playing Golf today. If he was to play I'm sure LJ would had him in training today. Disappointing. 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Yes, agreed. In which case he isn’t following instructions given to him to get himself ready “just in case”. Has it actually been confirmed he CAN play? Seems all speculation when he may have already been told by the club that he can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, marcofisher said: Has it actually been confirmed he CAN play? Seems all speculation when he may have already been told by the club that he can't. Clubs can play players coming back if they have genuine reason to, i.e. you'd imagine Walsh or Morrell would tick the box as we have lost Henriksen for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Just now, petehinton said: Clubs can play players coming back if they have genuine reason to, i.e. you'd imagine Walsh or Morrell would tick the box as we have lost Henriksen for example I've seen rules stating that players retuning from loan come below players that have already played this season, i.e. Taylor Moore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, marcofisher said: I've seen rules stating that players retuning from loan come below players that have already played this season, i.e. Taylor Moore? think we could get passed that by not having any CB injuries and also Walsh played in the league cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Davefevs said: Yes, agreed. In which case he isn’t following instructions given to him to get himself ready “just in case”. There is no reason he can't train and play golf in the same day. Not everyone takes as long to get round a course as you or me Dave You would imagine if he could play he wouldn't be linking up with the squad till after Sunday's fixture anyway, testing and all that? 1 minute ago, petehinton said: think we could get passed that by not having any CB injuries and also Walsh played in the league cup? Hopefully! Could be the freshening up that we are crying out for. I imagine we will find out in this weekends press conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 That makes for some good reading certainly. Would he be available this Sunday? Don't see it- would he be fit this Sunday- same difference. Next season though, I can see him bringing a new dimension to the midfield. He can break the lines- he has some defensive issues of course. We need to set up in a way that can both maximise our strengths and minimise our weaknesses- I fear we'll waste his talent if we play him in the current shape personally. He'd improve things but wouldn't hit the heights he could IMO. Seems to have his strengths both with and importantly without the ball however. I think him and Morrell should come back more confident, I hope better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 hours ago, marcofisher said: Has it actually been confirmed he CAN play? Seems all speculation when he may have already been told by the club that he can't. Nope. Nothing on EFL site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 21 hours ago, Silvio Dante said: The rule for GK makes this simplistic, outfield players less so. To expand: GK is specialist. Therefore it’s always been the case that with injuries, outside of windows, you could replace players. No reason to suspect that if (say) Niki and Bents were unavailable, Max could come in on the same basis. Outfield a bit more nuanced. It’s not specialised, so losing (say) Kalas wouldn’t mean we’d have carte Blanche to play Moore, as we could change formation. With that in mind. The logical reading of the rule is that for outfield players, you can add a prior loanee to the squad if your squad is smaller than at the time of the last date of available recall for the loan - and it has to be absent injury. I.e we can recall (play) a loanee if we have lost players, through non renewal of contract, if they were available to us as at the closure of the Jan window. The players ‘lost’ from that point are Henriksen. Wright and Taylor don’t count as already out on loan so not available. Therefore, I *think* that we have one theoretical squad place post Henriksens last contracted date. Logic tells me we could choose one prior loanee, irrespective of position, to add to the squad post end of June and be both within moral and literal interpretation of rules Apologies if this is answered later in the thread, but I'll likely lose the thought if I finish reading the thread first. Does the bolded bit also include suspensions? If we lose a player to suspension can they be replaced by a player who was previously out on loan like an injured player could? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: Apologies if this is answered later in the thread, but I'll likely lose the thought if I finish reading the thread first. Does the bolded bit also include suspensions? If we lose a player to suspension can they be replaced by a player who was previously out on loan like an injured player could? My logic says not as I don’t see how it’s “fair”. Teams had their squads as at 31st Jan, and the logic of the rule seems to be to keep that squad level in place. Suspensions could have happened in Feb, and you couldn’t recall then. Ultimately, squad pressure could be caused by two reasons: - Loss of players whose contracts weren’t renewed post 30th June (whoever’s choice), which has to be the most common scenario - COVID outbreak in the squad - in which case season in doubt anyway! Taking this through. We play Preston last game. We decide to play Morrell, Walsh and Semenyo. We state some prior out of form players have “injuries” to justify. Walsh scores the winner and we make the playoffs at Prestons expense. Can you see there not being a legal challenge in that case? On that basis, the only way I can see it being workable is the way I’ve described - i.e. you replace “lost” players, not injured or suspended. However, football doesn’t always work on logic.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 To just add in a point, Birmingham “lose” six players on June 30th through release or non extension of loan. Therefore, it makes sense that they have the ability to add the three players they have stated and follows with the logical reading of the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 8 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: My logic says not as I don’t see how it’s “fair”. Teams had their squads as at 31st Jan, and the logic of the rule seems to be to keep that squad level in place. Suspensions could have happened in Feb, and you couldn’t recall then. Ultimately, squad pressure could be caused by two reasons: - Loss of players whose contracts weren’t renewed post 30th June (whoever’s choice), which has to be the most common scenario - COVID outbreak in the squad - in which case season in doubt anyway! Taking this through. We play Preston last game. We decide to play Morrell, Walsh and Semenyo. We state some prior out of form players have “injuries” to justify. Walsh scores the winner and we make the playoffs at Prestons expense. Can you see there not being a legal challenge in that case? On that basis, the only way I can see it being workable is the way I’ve described - i.e. you replace “lost” players, not injured or suspended. However, football doesn’t always work on logic.... Bolded bit- the same could be said for injuries. If Massengo got injured in Feb we wouldnt have been able to recall anyone. Edit Oops, I think I misread the first post I quoted. Is it that only players like Henrikson could be replaced? Essentially my question is are absences through injury and suspension treated the same when it comes to whether they can be replaced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 Just now, JamesBCFC said: Bolded bit part one- the same could be said for injuries. If Massengo got injured in Feb we wouldnt have been able to recall anyone. Yep - I agree - I was trying to make the point in my original note that the unavailability had to be “absent injuries” - ie they aren’t a good reason. Same goes for suspensions. Apologies if original comment unclear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesBCFC Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Silvio Dante said: Yep - I agree - I was trying to make the point in my original note that the unavailability had to be “absent injuries” - ie they aren’t a good reason. Same goes for suspensions. Apologies if original comment unclear See my edit! I think you have answered it now and I may have misread. I realised my error after the first line and never got to the other things I was going to highlight as suddenly they no longer applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted June 26, 2020 Report Share Posted June 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said: See my edit! I think you have answered it now and I may have misread. I realised my error after the first line and never got to the other things I was going to highlight as suddenly they no longer applied. No probs mate - I don’t even know for sure my readings right but it seems to be the only workable way without accusations of gaming the system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mozo Posted June 29, 2020 Report Share Posted June 29, 2020 Interesting that Johnson stated in his post match ramble that City's squad lacks a Bannan type, but that he's hoping Walsh can be that when he returns next season. A few points: He said this in the context of us lacking creativity. Well, Palmer isn't a Bannan, but he's creative. Speaking about Walsh next season ends the convo about him playing this season. Not the first time that Johnson has spoken about Walsh being in his plans for 2020-21. That's one insight into the future of our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slartibartfast Posted June 29, 2020 Report Share Posted June 29, 2020 51 minutes ago, mozo said: Interesting that Johnson stated in his post match ramble that City's squad lacks a Bannan type, but that he's hoping Walsh can be that when he returns next season. A few points: He said this in the context of us lacking creativity. Well, Palmer isn't a Bannan, but he's creative. Speaking about Walsh next season ends the convo about him playing this season. Not the first time that Johnson has spoken about Walsh being in his plans for 2020-21. That's one insight into the future of our midfield. TBF, it may be a fitness thing, not having played since March ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.