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8 minutes ago, Prinny said:

They're a couple of decades ahead of us.

And their transfer team and analytics department are definitely overall better.

As in, it's the whole team. Not just the manager.

Corrected for you!

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1 hour ago, hodge said:

Massengo was apparently £8m if you include every possible add on, rumour was initial fee was closer to £2.5m so £9.5m if all of Kalas fee was upfront. 

Their coach was an assistant who also worked with their players between the 1st team and B team, knew the philosophy of the club and didn't have to rip anything up just evolved it. Their recruitment has obviously been excellent, remember we wanted Watkins at the same time they did but Exeter wanted more money from us for him which put us off.

Got a great CV from a development point of view.  Some minor clubs, in his 20s, then got Danish u16, u17s then u19s, before getting Brondby job.  Then Brentford assistant (Danish connection to Ankerson) with ex-City assistant O’Kelly, before getting the head-coach gig when Dean Smith went to Villa.

They too have sold their best players, but don’t bleat about it!

Watkins - Exeter more happy for him to go to Brentford for a smaller fee (but bigger sell-on), because they thought Brentford would develop him more than us, hence they’d get more down the line!!

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49 minutes ago, Seneca the Younger said:

What I find amazing is that Dean Smith left and they still play the same way, such great football, if only we had such a sound philosophy. 

Thought that was what we were aiming for with our 5 pillers.  Sadly we’ve only succeeded in being consistently shit

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38 minutes ago, MC RISK77 said:

Agree some of the football is beautiful.

can you imagine us trying to take it to west brom

Actually we did once.

The last time I can recall we played high tempo, adventurous positive football. Didn’t we go 3-0 up before reverting to type and clinging on for a 3-2 victory? 

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12 minutes ago, RedRock said:

First one I checked Nørgaard is 6’1’’ ....I rest my case m’lord. 

Haha fair. 

You likely won't agree but I'm unconvinced they're so wildly better than us in a variety of positions. Performance and fluidity differences are like night and day however!

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3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Got a great CV from a development point of view.  Some minor clubs, in his 20s, then got Danish u16, u17s then u19s, before getting Brondby job.  Then Brentford assistant (Danish connection to Ankerson) with ex-City assistant O’Kelly, before getting the head-coach gig when Dean Smith went to Villa.

They too have sold their best players, but don’t bleat about it!

Watkins - Exeter more happy for him to go to Brentford for a smaller fee (but bigger sell-on), because they thought Brentford would develop him more than us, hence they’d get more down the line!!

Lummydaze. That’s an indictment of our Club. 

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2 minutes ago, RedRock said:

Actually we did once.

The last time I can recall we played high tempo, adventurous positive football. Didn’t we go 3-0 up before reverting to type and clinging on for a 3-2 victory? 

Was great. First 15 mins IIRC, blitzed them. 

Davefevs has mentioned it a few times,  our 4-2-2-2 with Webster pushed up a bit into CM helped catch them cold too. 

I think we've had some decent games but few and far between over last and this season.

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39 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Got a great CV from a development point of view.  Some minor clubs, in his 20s, then got Danish u16, u17s then u19s, before getting Brondby job.  Then Brentford assistant (Danish connection to Ankerson) with ex-City assistant O’Kelly, before getting the head-coach gig when Dean Smith went to Villa.

They too have sold their best players, but don’t bleat about it!

Watkins - Exeter more happy for him to go to Brentford for a smaller fee (but bigger sell-on), because they thought Brentford would develop him more than us, hence they’d get more down the line!!

I had that feeling too, the development thing.

Dave I forgot to ask but you didn't do it last week. Will you be doing one of your tactical previews, strengths, weaknesses, how we beat them etc this week! I remember you did them quite often pre lockdown- was good stuff.

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29 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Got a great CV from a development point of view.  Some minor clubs, in his 20s, then got Danish u16, u17s then u19s, before getting Brondby job.  Then Brentford assistant (Danish connection to Ankerson) with ex-City assistant O’Kelly, before getting the head-coach gig when Dean Smith went to Villa.

They too have sold their best players, but don’t bleat about it!

Watkins - Exeter more happy for him to go to Brentford for a smaller fee (but bigger sell-on), because they thought Brentford would develop him more than us, hence they’d get more down the line!!

And they would have been right. The sad thing is i don’t think Watkins would have become half the  player he is now if he would of came here..this current management team just seem to stifle talent and any talent that does seem to do well (Reid + Bryan for example) seem to have come about more by chance than any good judgement.

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2 hours ago, BrizzleRed said:

Brentford fully deserve to go up.

They haven’t got huge resources, get small crowds, no history of success at higher levels.  In spite of all that, they’ve settled on a style of play that’s a joy to watch and they seem to be able to repeat it, year after year, even after they sell their star players. In spite of selling, they seem to be able to identify replacements to keep things rolling on perfectly.

They are successfully doing everything we’re trying to do, but we’re falling well short.

Good luck to them

Good post ... although when you say ‘no history of success at higher levels’ it is worth pointing out that in the mid to late 1930s Brentford FC was bigger than their neighbours Chelsea, recording regular top 6 finishes in the top division in England ... anyway, I’ve got a lot of time for the Bees, a proper football club doing it the right way ...

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49 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Got a great CV from a development point of view.  Some minor clubs, in his 20s, then got Danish u16, u17s then u19s, before getting Brondby job.  Then Brentford assistant (Danish connection to Ankerson) with ex-City assistant O’Kelly, before getting the head-coach gig when Dean Smith went to Villa.

They too have sold their best players, but don’t bleat about it!

Watkins - Exeter more happy for him to go to Brentford for a smaller fee (but bigger sell-on), because they thought Brentford would develop him more than us, hence they’d get more down the line!!

If we had a coach like that, half the people would be 'ooh, cheap option. Never heard of him, doesn't have Championship experience.... SL doesn't know what he's doing......'

Same every time someone tries to break the mould.

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2 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Watching the game tonight and they are a great side and so good going forward with so much energy, regardless of the end result.

Im not sure about the comparisons to us are but think they sold maupay for 20m and someone called konsi or knota for £10m? But brought in mbuembo and Jansen for 10m. I would suggest our net spends are similar if you disregard January transfer window when we sold brown hill.

we bought Kalas and Massengo for near £15m if you believe the Massengo transfer fee.

Why then are they so far ahead of us and why do they look like such a good team on what I would imagine is a much lower wage cap?
 

they beat us 5-0 at Ashton gate if I remember correctly 

Brentford are the best team I have seen this season. 

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2 hours ago, GrahamC said:

The choice was actually sign him or Eliasson.

In hindsight we made the wrong one, but I think it is also fair to say we have spent £2m on far worse players that we did on Niclas. 

I’m not convinced he would have flourished in the same way here.

This kills me to say, but definitely the right choice in Brentford over the nonsense here for the last 4 years.

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56 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I had that feeling too, the development thing.

Dave I forgot to ask but you didn't do it last week. Will you be doing one of your tactical previews, strengths, weaknesses, how we beat them etc this week! I remember you did them quite often pre lockdown- was good stuff.

I might do....have done a bit a bit of prep, and made a few comments on here already.

Ok, I’ll do it tomorrow.

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38 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Good post ... although when you say ‘no history of success at higher levels’ it is worth pointing out that in the mid to late 1930s Brentford FC was bigger than their neighbours Chelsea, recording regular top 6 finishes in the top division in England ... anyway, I’ve got a lot of time for the Bees, a proper football club doing it the right way ...

Really hadn’t realised that tbh. Certainly from the mid 60’s when I became aware of them, they’ve generally been a fixture in the bottom two divisions.

What I admire about them is, they are building on really solid foundations and show you don’t have to be spending stupid money to be successful in this division and don’t have to sacrifice a brilliant and very entertaining style of football.

Bees fans can be justly very proud of how their club are doing things, that’s for sure.

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We can use all the talk we want, all the excuses, and even if other clubs with similar budgets, resources have got to the Prem, Brentford, Brentford is the shining example of what we are so blatantly missing. They have for years now played great football, we end up buying their cast offs, and they sell well and invest well. They are everything we should have had in our target. Not a Prem football team , but a club that with limited resources that has progressed and above all plays football you actually want to watch. LJ is incapable of delivering anything close. They are a selling club, have no parachute payments, have a small crowd. So why is it unreasonable that Bristol City cannot match Brentford. Yes Brentford. Steve L needs to wake up, he is wasting time and money. That we are so far from Brentford should at least make Steve L think. Can LJ ever deliver something like Brentford, I repeat our benchmark is Brentford. Full respect to them, they have made us look inept. But LJ is not even remotely close to matching that level. 

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3 hours ago, tin said:

They definitely deserve to go up. As I said on the SL thread, their chairman Benham has a clear plan and isn’t afraid to wield the axe in pursuit of success.

Unlike SL and LJ, Benham got rid of Warburton who was successful in establishing them in the Championship. That was considered the ceiling for the little old Bees but they haven’t looked back since. Good luck to them. 

Warburton left because of a falling out with the owner over the way transfers would be done.

Not because his performance wasnt seemed good enough.

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10 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Warburton left because of a falling out with the owner over the way transfers would be done.

Not because his performance wasnt seemed good enough.

And one of my names for a City shortlist, Uwe Rosler started the Brentford ball (moneyball 👀) rolling.

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8 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Warburton left because of a falling out with the owner over the way transfers would be done.

Not because his performance wasnt seemed good enough.

Brentford have had a footballing strategy for many years, coaches have come and gone, but the football has remained in the same general direction and players signed to match that. When you have a coach who changes approach game to game how do you make progress. LJ lacks clarity in vision, he is not a leader, and at best is a good coach as a number 2 or 3 . Number 1, never. He would have been fired ages ago at any other championship club. It is only because the owner is desperate for him to succeed and is blind to the evident failings. 

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1 minute ago, billywedlock said:

Brentford have had a footballing strategy for many years, coaches have come and gone, but the football has remained in the same general direction and players signed to match that. When you have a coach who changes approach game to game how do you make progress. LJ lacks clarity in vision, he is not a leader, and at best is a good coach as a number 2 or 3 . Number 1, never. He would have been fired ages ago at any other championship club. It is only because the owner is desperate for him to succeed and is blind to the evident failings. 

Which other clubs have sacked a manager for year on year positional improvement? 

Particularly having a side as contenders for the playoffs consistently on a bottom half wage budget (latest accounts had ours at 14th highest in the league).

 

More to the point, none of what you said had anything to do with my post. Which was a response to a false claim about Warburton being sacked by the Brentford owner because he didnt do well enough. Nor was my previous post, or this one for that matter, suggesting that LJ gets everything right or couldn't do better at his job.

 

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2 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Which other clubs have sacked a manager for year on year positional improvement? 

Particularly having a side as contenders for the playoffs consistently on a bottom half wage budget (latest accounts had ours at 14th highest in the league).

 

More to the point, none of what you said had anything to do with my post. Which was a response to a false claim about Warburton being sacked by the Brentford owner because he didnt do well enough. Nor was my previous post, or this one for that matter, suggesting that LJ gets everything right or couldn't do better at his job.

 

Have you seen the year on year increase in spending ? Have you seen the inept football ? Clubs with budgets less than our do better. Sorry if I have missed your point on Warburton. 

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12 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

Which other clubs have sacked a manager for year on year positional improvement? 

Particularly having a side as contenders for the playoffs consistently on a bottom half wage budget (latest accounts had ours at 14th highest in the league).

 

More to the point, none of what you said had anything to do with my post. Which was a response to a false claim about Warburton being sacked by the Brentford owner because he didnt do well enough. Nor was my previous post, or this one for that matter, suggesting that LJ gets everything right or couldn't do better at his job.

 

Is that year on year improvement even proportionate to our year on year total wage increases?

I'm assuming not. We're (as current) overspending massively on wages for what is a bloated squad.

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28 minutes ago, billywedlock said:

Have you seen the year on year increase in spending ? Have you seen the inept football ? Clubs with budgets less than our do better. Sorry if I have missed your point on Warburton. 

And clubs with budgets more than ours do worse, we could both point to examples, though I'd wager I could point to more if I needed to.

20 minutes ago, Fuber said:

Is that year on year improvement even proportionate to our year on year total wage increases?

I'm assuming not. We're (as current) overspending massively on wages for what is a bloated squad.

I hadn't responded to this thread for yet another pointless argument about LJ, I was correcting a false statement. 

Regardless the results, not necessarily the performances have us above our placing in terms of wage bill. That suggests that LJ isn't doing a bad job. No one is arguing that LJ is perfect or doesn't make mistakes, so if we could stop turning this thread about Brentford into one about LJ...

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4 minutes ago, JamesBCFC said:

And clubs with budgets more than ours do worse, we could both point to examples, though I'd wager I could point to more if I needed to.

I hadn't responded to this thread for yet another pointless argument about LJ, I was correcting a false statement. 

Regardless the results, not necessarily the performances have us above our placing in terms of wage bill. That suggests that LJ isn't doing a bad job. No one is arguing that LJ is perfect or doesn't make mistakes, so if we could stop turning this thread about Brentford into one about LJ...

Brentford are exceptional. Happy. Idiotic to reference clubs doing worse with more money. You have never worked with winners have you. Your mentality is a losers one. But that makes you happy, so that is great. 

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5 hours ago, MC RISK77 said:

Watching the game tonight and they are a great side and so good going forward with so much energy, regardless of the end result.

Im not sure about the comparisons to us are but think they sold maupay for 20m and someone called konsi or knota for £10m? But brought in mbuembo and Jansen for 10m. I would suggest our net spends are similar if you disregard January transfer window when we sold brown hill.

we bought Kalas and Massengo for near £15m if you believe the Massengo transfer fee.

Why then are they so far ahead of us and why do they look like such a good team on what I would imagine is a much lower wage cap?
 

they beat us 5-0 at Ashton gate if I remember correctly 

Great side difference is they got a good manager plays attacking football and is not scared to go forward.

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6 hours ago, Bristol Rob said:

If we had a coach like that, half the people would be 'ooh, cheap option. Never heard of him, doesn't have Championship experience.... SL doesn't know what he's doing......'

Same every time someone tries to break the mould.

But he’d prove those people wrong, whereas our appointment proves them right! 
 

Frank is their 4th genuinely successful manager in recent times.... Rosler, Warburton, Smith being the others.  
SL’s track record isn’t so positive... Cotterill did the job he was employed to do and did it well but wasn’t appointed by SL. Other than that, they’ve all been ok at best.... some significantly less than ok. 

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9 hours ago, reddoh said:

Location, Location, Location.

Whilst being in London has advantages for recruitment, Swansea aren’t in London , nor are Cardiff, or Norwich or many other clubs who have had success whilst being geographically challenged !

Their success is down to a positive coherent game plan and belief in that plan. 

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