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Bristol City v Sheffield Wednesday - Match Day 39


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Just now, billywedlock said:

I have never been a great fan of LJ but he does not deserve insults. Whilst his man management, tactical ability and lack of clarity are seriously lacking, he undoubtedly works very hard, has improved a number of players and has tried his very best to achieve success. It is well past the time he should have moved on, but no need for vitriol. he is just not up to the job. 

absolutely - a tragic case

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2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm afraid I simply don't get this 'year on year improvement' thing as a defence of him. 

I'm a very experienced manager of creative people. Worked in the creative industries all my life. I see Lee Johnson as man given better and better creative resources. Upgrade after upgrade. The team do better because they are better players, not because he is coaching or managing them better. His reactions, in game and after, suggest that he is just watching, claiming credit or blaming his staff. It's all a bit pathetic. He's out of his depth. I feel sorry for him in a way.

That's a controversial opinion, I accept. But that's what I see. Let's bring in a proven football manager and judge them as we would any other, not some 'project' of the owner who has to be handled with kid gloves.

I wouldn't say it is a controversial opinion. - just a different one you have. You aren't alone in it either.

I think you have to factor in having to sell players so those resources are more changed than better. And I do think he has improved players but obviously there will be other influences too. If he was out of his depth we would have been relegated or finished lower.

The only thing we really have to point to in terms of facts is that he came in when Cotteril left us in a mess at the bottom of league one. He comfortably kept us up. He then improved us year on year. He is the manager so should take the credit for that just as he should now take the blame for this slump.

One thing I would say that really annoys me about his tenure is the streaks. We can win 4 in a row then just as easily lose 4 in a row. If he goes on to be a better manager at a higher level he will need to improve that.

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Just now, Alex_BCFC said:

I wouldn't say it is a controversial opinion. - just a different one you have. You aren't alone in it either.

I think you have to factor in having to sell players so those resources are more changed than better. And I do think he has improved players but obviously there will be other influences too. If he was out of his depth we would have been relegated or finished lower.

The only thing we really have to point to in terms of facts is that he came in when Cotteril left us in a mess at the bottom of league one. He comfortably kept us up. He then improved us year on year. He is the manager so should take the credit for that just as he should now take the blame for this slump.

One thing I would say that really annoys me about his tenure is the streaks. We can win 4 in a row then just as easily lose 4 in a row. If he goes on to be a better manager at a higher level he will need to improve that.

 I wonder whether he'll ever manage again at the same level, let alone higher? He talks a good game but has been a bit found out...I wonder whether he'll be another Lansdown appointment, Tinion, Millen, the peak of whose managerial career was Bristol City. Time will tell. 

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1 minute ago, Red Exile said:

 I wonder whether he'll ever manage again at the same level, let alone higher? He talks a good game but has been a bit found out...I wonder whether he'll be another Lansdown appointment, Tinion, Millen, the peak of whose managerial career was Bristol City. Time will tell. 

Tinnion and Miller left club in a worse position than when they started I think whereas this isn’t the case. He’s well thought of in football generally - outside of City fans anyway - whether we think that’s right or not. 

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Just now, redsquirrel said:

two weeks ago i was hopeful and believed we could beat blackburn,weds,boro and stoke,maybe nick a point or 2 against the rest and hope it was enough for 6th. now i cant see where the next point might come from

Hasn’t this been said a million times under LJ and then we win 4 games in a row?

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16 minutes ago, Garland-sweden said:

Our players dont know what to do when they have the ball. We are out in possesion and have no movement. Was not even angry when I Watched the game, more sad. No defence, no midfield, no wingers, no attacking football. If Bakers header had went in it maybe had been different. No confidence. The starting eleven showed to be wrong. I thought we had to go for it, we have creative players, Eliasson, Palmer. No offcause should COD start. Eliasson in for Wonderboy, ofcause should COD have been subbed. For me is COD a joke. Wonder what, Niclas, Palmer, Nagy and the rest of the team thinks of playing COD all the time. Eliasson will move on and play for a manager that sees his strenghts. Always backed up LJ but when he plays the wrong starting eleven most of the times I think we had to bring in a new gaffer. COYR!!!

If Elisasson moves on and ever plays against us, we will see what we could have had!

I'm sure we should all be able to name our 'starting 11' (subject to injuries), but under LJ I have no idea what it is. There should be a formation we play, with the same 11 starting, regulars on the bench, with subs that are good to come on to cover injuries, or if we need to change things up (not to bring on a defender in the last few minutes of a game we are losing).

Most games we should have confidence to play our way and not change completely depending on the opponents. Sure, there will be occasions we change slightly if there is a particular star opponent we need to man-mark out of the game, or need some extra height etc, but that wouldn't be very often.

LJ's signed enough players now, but still doesn't have a coherent plan.

We are now good enough (stable ownership, financially sound, good training facilities, great stadium, great fanbase, in an increasingly popular city) to attract a manager capable of taking us to the next stage. 🙏

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17 minutes ago, lenred said:

Cheers for taking it in the spirit intended as I wasn’t being snide 🙂!  Just I hear it a lot and wonder what people are getting at as I really don’t remember any ‘good times’ (other than that game) at all. 

Winning at Sheff United, twice (one more than Cotts). Doing the double over Sheff Utd.

Doing the double over Derby.

Thrashing Crystal Palace in the cup.

Being 1:0 up at Man City.

The Sept to Christmas 2017 four months or so.

Finishing 8th in this division, not to be sniffed at.

Beating Leeds at home, drawing at Newcastle.

Beating Wolves at home, beating Cardiff away.

Bobby Reid's golden season; Webster; Brownhill.

Signing Matty Taylor.

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20 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm afraid I simply don't get this 'year on year improvement' thing as a defence of him. 

I'm a very experienced manager of creative people. Worked in the creative industries all my life. I see Lee Johnson as man given better and better creative resources. Upgrade after upgrade. The team do better because they are better players, not because he is coaching or managing them better. His reactions, in game and after, suggest that he is just watching, claiming credit or blaming his staff. It's all a bit pathetic. He's out of his depth. I feel sorry for him in a way.

That's a controversial opinion, I accept. But that's what I see. Let's bring in a proven football manager and judge them as we would any other, not some 'project' of the owner who has to be handled with kid gloves.

Like this.

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19 minutes ago, Selred said:

Who's fault is it? Surely if 21 players are poor it's due to the tactics, not due to the players?

So you've decided not to answer my question because we both know what your answer would be and that it goes against everything you're saying. Rather than avoiding questions like you, I'll answer your question.

The responsibility is split between management and players. Was LJ the reason Bentley was at fault for goals at Blackburn? Obviously not, it's Bentley's fault hence why he was dropped. Is LJ tactics the reason why some players don't perform, yes.

Do players have no responsibility?  

Edited by WRERE
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1 minute ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Winning at Sheff United, twice (one more than Cotts). Doing the double over Sheff Utd.

Doing the double over Derby.

Thrashing Crystal Palace in the cup.

Being 1:0 up at Man City.

The Sept to Christmas 2017 four months or so.

Finishing 8th in this division, not to be sniffed at.

Beating Leeds at home, drawing at Newcastle.

Beating Wolves at home, beating Cardiff away.

Bobby Reid's golden season; Webster; Brownhill.

Signing Matty Taylor.

Most of that in a relatively short period of time and he has been dining out on it for years since.

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Just now, redsquirrel said:

seems so long ago tho,i cant remember it

Well probably not that long ago (excluding the lockdown period) we were on a 4/5 game winning run without conceding.

I think he should go but  it is very conceivable we win 3 in a row to give hope and then lose the next 3 to crash and burn.

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1 minute ago, WRERE said:

So you've decided not to answer my question because we both know what your answer would be and that it goes against everything you're saying. Rather than avoiding questions like you, I'll answer your question.

The responsibility is split between management and players. Was LJ the reason Bentley was at fault for goals at Blackburn? Obviously not, it's Bentley's fault hence why he was dropped. Is LJ tactics the reason why some players don't perform, yes. 

Its Johnson's fault for picking players out of position and out of form.

You wouldn't or shouldn't drop a stellar performer after one mare of a game.

Johnson's fault is that he never ever takes any responsibility.

I place it pretty much all at his door at present.

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25 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

I'm afraid I simply don't get this 'year on year improvement' thing as a defence of him. 

I'm a very experienced manager of creative people. Worked in the creative industries all my life. I see Lee Johnson as man given better and better creative resources. Upgrade after upgrade. The team do better because they are better players, not because he is coaching or managing them better. His reactions, in game and after, suggest that he is just watching, claiming credit or blaming his staff. It's all a bit pathetic. He's out of his depth. I feel sorry for him in a way.

That's a controversial opinion, I accept. But that's what I see. Let's bring in a proven football manager and judge them as we would any other, not some 'project' of the owner who has to be handled with kid gloves.

Exactly this

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1 minute ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Well probably not that long ago (excluding the lockdown period) we were on a 4/5 game winning run without conceding.

I think he should go but  it is very conceivable we win 3 in a row to give hope and then lose the next 3 to crash and burn.

you are right,i remember us being at or near the top of current form table 

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3 minutes ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

Winning at Sheff United, twice (one more than Cotts). Doing the double over Sheff Utd.

Doing the double over Derby.

Thrashing Crystal Palace in the cup.

Being 1:0 up at Man City.

The Sept to Christmas 2017 four months or so.

Finishing 8th in this division, not to be sniffed at.

Beating Leeds at home, drawing at Newcastle.

Beating Wolves at home, beating Cardiff away.

Bobby Reid's golden season; Webster; Brownhill.

Signing Matty Taylor.

As someone has already mentioned most of that came within a short space of time. No doubting we hit that purple patch but we couldn’t capitalise.  Nothing of note since then for me - no doubting signing Webster and Taylor was great but if you throw enough muck etc....and I wouldn’t class signings as ‘great times’ anyway. For me it’s the feeling and the style of football. Being desperate for that next game to come around, praying you’ll get hold of an away ticket because you know they will sell out quickly. Haven’t had that for a good while now. 

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4 minutes ago, WRERE said:

So you've decided not to answer my question because we both know what your answer would be and that it goes against everything you're saying. Rather than avoiding questions like you, I'll answer your question.

The responsibility is split between management and players. Was LJ the reason Bentley was at fault for goals at Blackburn? Obviously not, it's Bentley's fault hence why he was dropped. Is LJ tactics the reason why some players don't perform, yes.

Do players have no responsibility?  

 

5 minutes ago, WRERE said:

So you've decided not to answer my question because we both know what your answer would be and that it goes against everything you're saying. Rather than avoiding questions like you, I'll answer your question.

The responsibility is split between management and players. Was LJ the reason Bentley was at fault for goals at Blackburn? Obviously not, it's Bentley's fault hence why he was dropped. Is LJ tactics the reason why some players don't perform, yes.

Do players have no responsibility?  

Why did COD not get dropped then? 

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2 minutes ago, nickolas said:

LJ says the performance was ‘much improved’. 🤣 my god his standards must be low!

Dreadfull. Get out!

Let's be honest anything would have been an improvement on the Blackburn game, so he was probably right there.  Unfortunately still not good enough, due to the wrong midfield selection and then playing Afobe to far left.

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12 minutes ago, Cider_boy said:

If Elisasson moves on and ever plays against us, we will see what we could have had!

I'm sure we should all be able to name our 'starting 11' (subject to injuries), but under LJ I have no idea what it is. There should be a formation we play, with the same 11 starting, regulars on the bench, with subs that are good to come on to cover injuries, or if we need to change things up (not to bring on a defender in the last few minutes of a game we are losing).

Most games we should have confidence to play our way and not change completely depending on the opponents. Sure, there will be occasions we change slightly if there is a particular star opponent we need to man-mark out of the game, or need some extra height etc, but that wouldn't be very often.

LJ's signed enough players now, but still doesn't have a coherent plan.

We are now good enough (stable ownership, financially sound, good training facilities, great stadium, great fanbase, in an increasingly popular city) to attract a manager capable of taking us to the next stage. 🙏

Amen to that.

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11 minutes ago, Alex_BCFC said:

Tinnion and Miller left club in a worse position than when they started I think whereas this isn’t the case. He’s well thought of in football generally - outside of City fans anyway - whether we think that’s right or not. 

Agreed on Tinnion and Millen. I was thinking of them as examples of managerial appointments that left me with my head in my hands when they were announced, and that reflect badly on our owner's talent spotting record...which doesn't bode well tbh!

For what it's worth, and I'm not a very ITK person, I have only heard three things about LJ from people in the football world, all of which back things folk on here have said over the years...that as a player some of his colleagues believed he was only in the team because his Dad was the manager, I overheard two his team mates at the time discussing this...that as a manager he has a bit of a reputation for throwing his players under the bus when things go badly...and that he can be wound up by being likened to David Brent.

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15 minutes ago, Natchfever said:

Its Johnson's fault for picking players out of position and out of form.

You wouldn't or shouldn't drop a stellar performer after one mare of a game.

Johnson's fault is that he never ever takes any responsibility.

I place it pretty much all at his door at present.

Indeed.

If I'm an opposition manager I'm loving the way LJ sends us out. Not difficult to counteract. 

3 in CM, can often beat 2. Palmer, Paterson aren't ideal in a CM 3.

2 vs 2 in wider areas, can negate crossing. A less method of scoring anyway, in modern times.

Williams at CB. Target him with your striker and a runner from CM. May even get a bonus penalty or red card! Baker can have the ball, he's not technically great.

Bottom line is we don't create enough, we lack control and possession and we lack defensive stability because of how many chances we allow.

I assign a fair chunk of the blame to LJ for this! Is quite a feat to get all 3 in the same side...

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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