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Having good players, but then you coach them to become even better players.

mossey

By mossey
in Football Chat

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The Coach

The Coach

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Not many out of the 70 odd we’ve had

You have the likes of Abraham and Kelly but they had natural raw potential who were destined to go onto big things. Would Johnson and co of had that much impact in their progression? 
 

If you talk about average players and pushing them beyond their potential. Then none.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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4 hours ago, mossey said:

Something that was just said on football focus about Klopp and being a good football manager, starting me thinking about City under Johnson, and how many players we could actually say that about, thoughts please.

I posted last week how many players 26 years and over has he improved?

You've got to accept that younger player development might be down to general age progression year on year.

Re my first question, I could only think of Flint!

Dont get me wrong I think Brownhill and Reid developed under LJ, but both are hugely dedicated pros.  Reid of course had his positional change but how important was “Back2Action” fitness.

On the flip side how many players 24 and under haven’t progressed.

Huge question marks over Johnson.  I’m not saying he’s crap, but it’s easy to look at things like net spend and directly attribute it to being purely down to LJ. 

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Dr Balls

Dr Balls

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20 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I posted last week how many players 26 years and over has he improved?

You've got to accept that younger player development might be down to general age progression year on year.

Re my first question, I could only think of Flint!

Dont get me wrong I think Brownhill and Reid developed under LJ, but both are hugely dedicated pros.  Reid of course had his positional change but how important was “Back2Action” fitness.

On the flip side how many players 24 and under haven’t progressed.

Huge question marks over Johnson.  I’m not saying he’s crap, but it’s easy to look at things like net spend and directly attribute it to being purely down to LJ. 

Did Johnson really improve Flint beyond how he improved under Cotterill? Not much I would say. In fact other than making Bobby Reid a striker (and even then I am not sure that was a deliberate move or just out of necessity) I can’t think of any established player that LJ has really improved. Most have go backwards and a few stagnate. And those that have moved on (Bryan, Webster) had the talent anyway.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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12 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Did Johnson really improve Flint beyond how he improved under Cotterill? Not much I would say. In fact other than making Bobby Reid a striker (and even then I am not sure that was a deliberate move or just out of necessity) I can’t think of any established player that LJ has really improved. Most have go backwards and a few stagnate. And those that have moved on (Bryan, Webster) had the talent anyway.

I think Cotts improved Flint in Lg1, but he looked anything but a top half Champ CB in the start of 15/16.  So I’ll give Lee a bit of credit, Flint massive desire to make up for lost time too.  I think Baker alongside him in a 4 in the second half of 15/16 was massively influential.  Despite being younger, he organised Flint really well.

But as you say, is Flint the exception that proves the rule?

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RedRock

RedRock

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I’ll give you Watkins.

A pure Johnson-developed thoroughbred. 

 

Going to be unleashed as our secret weapon tomorrow after months of dormancy. He will be devastating and steer us single-handily to the promised land. 

Personally, I can’t wait for kick off. I just hope I can manage my heightened level of arousal until mid-day tomorrow. Could get messy otherwise. 

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Prinny

Prinny

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2 hours ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I dont understand this taylor moore situation.

He has a few good games, then had a bad one and gets sent off to another club.

I thought, he looked vastly improved this season, from what i saw.

I understand he took a pay cut too.

So pretty much every time he comes in he makes mistakes and we don't want him to make those mistakes for us, but do believe in him longer term so that's why he's not in the team and is loaned out.

Which makes total sense.

Except

Dan Bentley...

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Prinny

Prinny

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5 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

I dunno really, reckon hes been treated poorly compared to others.

I don't get that.

He got opportunities, didn't do well enough, so had the chance to go out on loan to improve. For him, that's a lot better than not playing for us.

That's not treating him badly, it's helping him, Walsh Morrell etc. Them playing means game film, and opportunities in the future.

10 minutes ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Has he progressed like we hoped?

No.

Then why should he play for us?

You can question him, you can question the coaching, you can question the loan moves and the strategy around him.

It's not clear it's LJ as the sole reason because you can point to Flint who got better in his position, and Eliasson who is the same age ish who have definitely improved.

There are definitely contradictions in how he's been handled, but https://www.theguardian.com/football/football-league-blog/2019/sep/25/bristol-city-taylor-moore-mbappe-coman-england-france-liverpool the man says it himself about him learning.

I think he's on a good path now, but he has to play better when he next gets his chance.

I don't see the narrative that we've been unfair to him, or he's a world beater that LJ simply refuses to play.

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Davefevs

Davefevs

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1 hour ago, Oh Louie louie said:

Well, imagine a manager comparing you to bobby moore,

Then a few weeks later loaning you to southend?

Did walsh and morrel take a pay cut too?

no, Moore wanted the security of an extra year on his contract so in effect, offered to spread it over two years.  He’s got a great attitude.

Pretty sure in later years he will question some of ljs man management calls.

The writings on the wall, he wont put up with another year of this.

 

 

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