Jump to content

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums

Welcome to One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums, like most online communities you must register to view or post in our community, but don't worry this is a simple free process that requires minimal information for you to signup. Be a part of One Team in Bristol - Bristol City Forums by signing in or creating an account.

  • Start new topics and reply to others
  • Full access to all forums (not all viewable as guest)
  • Subscribe to topics and forums to get email updates
  • Get your own profile page and make new friends
  • Send personal messages to other members.
  • Support OTIB with a premium membership

Who do we want, who could we realistically get?


Recommended Posts

On 29/06/2020 at 06:32, Sir Geoff said:

If we want a different style of football then

Clough, Ainsworth or Jankovic.

Wages wise and style wise Houghton and McCarthy are light years away from what we need. ( unless fans want promotion at all costs)

Personally I don’t care so much for promotion I just want to see a bit of entertainment and win lose or draw come away from the Gate knowing that the team gave everything.

Amen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

For me its not really about promotion. Whilst id love to watch the big clubs at the gate we would be the whipping boys of the Prem. For me its more about the style of football - i pay a good 2 grand a year all in to be entertained. I would want to watch Mick McCarthy or Colin's football

Promotion may not be for you but after over 30 years out of the top flight and year in year out having to see clubs like Brentford over take us many people are starting to get ****** off..!

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, RobintheRed Red said:

Think go for a manager that can attract good players weve had enough of nobodys someone to put us on the map.

We have attracted good players. It's nothing to do with who is the manager. Or at least it wasn't. The longer Johnson goes on the harder that will get.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

For me its not really about promotion. Whilst id love to watch the big clubs at the gate we would be the whipping boys of the Prem. For me its more about the style of football - i pay a good 2 grand a year all in to be entertained. I would want to watch Mick McCarthy or Colin's football

Just out of interest when was the last time you were entertained on a regular basis? 3 years ago? Game after game where you could stick a Toolstation keeper in goal for the opposition because we create so little. Our only threat is set pieces......sounds like the teams Colin puts out except his teams can defend along with it!!

I agree totally with the guy who said give Mad Mick and Terry Connor the tools and they would get us top 6. People really are missing how well he did on literally two bob at Ipswich. Look at them now.

Wouldn't be my first choice but neither is the current incumbent by a long stretch.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Every time I see a post like this my jaw hits the floor.  Do you know what kind of football McCarthy and Warnock play?  Surely you’ve seen their teams play?  And you’d be happy for us to play like that?  Or do you think Warnock (at 71) or McCarthy (at 61) are suddenly going to discover expansive attacking football?  I can just about get the occasional shout for Hughton but please someone explain to me why they’d be happy with Warnock?

Do you know what kind of football Lee Johnson plays?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

No I don't think we do. And that's one of the reasons to get rid of LJ.

I don't believe LJ likes young players. Much more interested in experienced players he can trust. 

And he can't find them either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Every time I see a post like this my jaw hits the floor.  Do you know what kind of football McCarthy and Warnock play?  Surely you’ve seen their teams play?  And you’d be happy for us to play like that?  Or do you think Warnock (at 71) or McCarthy (at 61) are suddenly going to discover expansive attacking football?  I can just about get the occasional shout for Hughton but please someone explain to me why they’d be happy with Warnock?

I have and they play a Lee Johnson style, except their teams play with passion, grit and are effective and way better than the god awful excuse for football that Johnson is producing

I’d hate to see either of those managing our club, but I’d honestly prefer McCarthy over Johnson’s dross tbh.

Hope it doesn’t come to that though, as I’d like to think we set our sights higher.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hodge said:

I've just posted about our loan policy, LJ's switch to preferring experienced players seems to have evolved along with the club's ambition, playing youngsters, well that's fine when you're aiming for mid table and stability but aiming for top 6 and having to use younger players who perhaps aren't ready makes it tougher, I'm sure many would question why we were playing young players who weren't ready if we weren't getting results, they then get left out and because of current loan rules couldn't move anywhere until Jan/next season. Its a lot tougher for managers now they can't just send a player to a club for a month or two to get some game time. We sacrifice being able to give them some game time here so they can get a lot elsewhere and develop.

It’s all about the blend , whilst ‘ you don’t win anything with kids ‘ , you rarely win anything with a team of old dogs either.

The key is the mix of youthful exuberance and naivety and the more streetwise older pros . 
 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sir Geoff said:

When did McCarthy last win promotion from the championship ???

 He took Sunderland into the premier league as champions of the championship in 2005 and he took Wolves into the premier league as champions of the championship in 2009 ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

Every time I see a post like this my jaw hits the floor.  Do you know what kind of football McCarthy and Warnock play?  Surely you’ve seen their teams play?  And you’d be happy for us to play like that?  Or do you think Warnock (at 71) or McCarthy (at 61) are suddenly going to discover expansive attacking football?  I can just about get the occasional shout for Hughton but please someone explain to me why they’d be happy with Warnock?

Why are so many of our fans wary/scared of proper, proven, successful managers with awesome CVs at this level? And they all seem to think we are playing such beautiful, flowing football under LJ ...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Why are so many of our fans wary/scared of proper, proven, successful managers with awesome CVs at this level? And they all seem to think we are playing such beautiful, flowing football under LJ ...

There's no magic bullet.

How many promotions has Mccarthy won? I think two but maybe it's more. Same as Hughton. Same as Jokanovic.

Thinking further back, Paul Jewell has 2 promotions to the PL but who would take him!! Possibly Colin Todd has two as well?

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

There's no magic bullet.

How many promotions has Mccarthy won? I think two but maybe it's more. Same as Hughton. Same as Jokanovic.

Thinking further back, Paul Jewell has 2 promotions to the PL but who would take him!! Possibly Colin Todd has two as well?

Yep, Paul Jewell won two promotions to the premier league with very unfancied clubs ... he was still involved in football management up until two years ago and he’s now director of football at a club not so far away. So not sure why you posted “who would take him!!” - he’s got a CV that LJ can only dream of ... yet another one ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, hodge said:

Tinnion has been quoted as saying it can be more beneficial for players to drop a level but play more than to get less game time at a higher level, almost exactly fits Morrell and Walsh this season by the looks of it

But we will still need to wait until Morrell is 23 3/4 and Walsh almost 23 to see whether it has been worth it.  If neither get the chance, or fail the audition, it’s turned out to be a long waited gamble, especially when Joe came in last winter and acquitted himself perfectly well.  For Liam, some of you have seen glimpses in his time here for you to think he was ready.

I really rate Massengo, but it definitely hampered Joe and Liam, and you have to question strategy, especially as the plan was to bed him in gently....as it happens he got far more game time than imagined.

I think we really have to question the recruitment strategy and succession planning.

I’m sure that LJ / MA have a little board showing a death chart by position going down to Academy level. But the implementation of that over 4 1/2 years indicates its execution has been bumpy.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 He took Sunderland into the premier league as champions of the championship in 2005 and he took Wolves into the premier league as champions of the championship in 2009 ...

That Wolves side were excellent. I think people forget that. It was when he changed the whole team against Manchester United (I think) to rest players he started to get this negative tag. Given the right players, he'll deliver.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But we will still need to wait until Morrell is 23 3/4 and Walsh almost 23 to see whether it has been worth it.  If neither get the chance, or fail the audition, it’s turned out to be a long waited gamble, especially when Joe came in last winter and acquitted himself perfectly well.  For Liam, some of you have seen glimpses in his time here for you to think he was ready.

I really rate Massengo, but it definitely hampered Joe and Liam, and you have to question strategy, especially as the plan was to bed him in gently....as it happens he got far more game time than imagined.

I think we really have to question the recruitment strategy and succession planning.

I’m sure that LJ / MA have a little board showing a death chart by position going down to Academy level. But the implementation of that over 4 1/2 years indicates its execution has been bumpy.

As said it comes back to how quickly the club's ambition has grown, if mid table stability was all we were after we'd have seen more of younger players and not sent them out on loan you'd imagine, keeping the likes of Morrell and Walsh around rather than sent out to get game time is a risk if you're told you have to finish top 6 and not surprising LJ has turned to more experienced players. There have been posts on here asking how many of our squad has the experience of getting out of this division and do we have enough of it etc, its difficult. Think everyone on here agreed Massengo was the sort of player we couldn't turn down the chance of signing, 18 year old from Monaco with champions league experience. Nagy would be the one you'd question if we needed but at the same time international experience.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But we will still need to wait until Morrell is 23 3/4 and Walsh almost 23 to see whether it has been worth it.  If neither get the chance, or fail the audition, it’s turned out to be a long waited gamble, especially when Joe came in last winter and acquitted himself perfectly well.  For Liam, some of you have seen glimpses in his time here for you to think he was ready.

I really rate Massengo, but it definitely hampered Joe and Liam, and you have to question strategy, especially as the plan was to bed him in gently....as it happens he got far more game time than imagined.

I think we really have to question the recruitment strategy and succession planning.

I’m sure that LJ / MA have a little board showing a death chart by position going down to Academy level. But the implementation of that over 4 1/2 years indicates its execution has been bumpy.

Harsh.

I know he likes players he can trust but if he can’t trust them he could just sell them as opposed to kill them.

(Cue: “He’s always throwing them under the bus” gag)

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, hodge said:

As said it comes back to how quickly the club's ambition has grown, if mid table stability was all we were after we'd have seen more of younger players and not sent them out on loan you'd imagine, keeping the likes of Morrell and Walsh around rather than sent out to get game time is a risk if you're told you have to finish top 6 and not surprising LJ has turned to more experienced players. There have been posts on here asking how many of our squad has the experience of getting out of this division and do we have enough of it etc, its difficult. Think everyone on here agreed Massengo was the sort of player we couldn't turn down the chance of signing, 18 year old from Monaco with champions league experience. Nagy would be the one you'd question if we needed but at the same time international experience.

The youth:experience argument is always an interesting one. Typically, most managers won’t play youth because the average shelf life of a manager is, what, 18 months? You haven’t got time for a young player to play and knock off the edges without it costing your job.

Even LJ, with the backing of SL, has been under pressure to deliver YOY improvement. We can all say we’d have goodwill if he played youth and finished in 16th, but a lot of the fanbase would see it as regression. On an LJ front, he does have form for improving *some* young players (Brownhill), but more often than not he doesn’t want to play them (Moore) or they regress (O’Dowda).

That all says to me that LJ doesn’t develop young players enough to trust them to throw them in, but even if he did, the pressure to get results would pretty much preclude playing them. Even now, we don’t know Joe and Liam are ready. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Superjack said:

We have attracted good players. It's nothing to do with who is the manager. Or at least it wasn't. The longer Johnson goes on the harder that will get.

i meant a manager that can attract the best someone who has done it at the top level we are wasting wages on lesser managers that inevitably need replacing eventually.

Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, red from the blue side said:

That Wolves side were excellent. I think people forget that. It was when he changed the whole team against Manchester United (I think) to rest players he started to get this negative tag. Given the right players, he'll deliver.

When Mick took over as Wolves Manager they were in dire financial trouble ... in his first season he put a team together from the youth team, reserve team and free transfers ... and he got them to the play offs ... then the next season he won the championship and took Wolves into the premier league as champions, then he kept them up for three seasons ... yet people still slag him off ... the rest of his CV is pretty cool too 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Paul Cook getting a lot of respect these days.  
I remember when I was scouting, and I watched his Chesterfield team back in 12/13, 13/14 and 14/15. 
I actually really loved watching that team. I had a personal scouting fave of mine whom I loved watching, Tendayi Darikwa. They had a quality creative player in Jay O’Shea, who was used correctly and effectively. They had steel with Liam Cooper at CB. 
 

In fact, the first thing that Cook did when he took over was to bring Liam Cooper (now at Leeds) in on loan. He then quickly followed that up with the loaning of O’Shea and Connor Townsend (now at West Brom). They were his first signings - an eye for talent or what?? 
 

Lovely team to watch that Chesterfield 12/13 13/14 side. 
 

The next season he brought in Sam Morsy - proper solid DM, Eion Doyle, who he’d worked with at Sligo, then solidified further with signings like Ian Evatt, Ritchie Humphreys, Gary Roberts - proper good signings for the level, no frills, players who just give their all. Roberts followed him to Portsmouth and to Wigan. Morsy also at Wigan now too. 
 

He built a proper solid team, but one that played good football - I scouted them loads at that time - solid spine (Cooper/Evatt/Morsy/Roberts) then attacking flair with Darikwa, O’Shea, Doyle.

They won the league. 
 

The next season, he brought in Sam Clucas, Daniel Johnson on loan, Mark Duffy (helped Sheff U to promotion last year). 
He got them to the League One playoffs. 

I’ve been watching Cook ever since those days. He can certainly spot a player. 
 

He went to Portsmouth and brought in Matt Clarke (the now highly rated Brighton CB), Enda Stevens & Kieron Freeman (both of whom helped Sheff U to the Prem), Kal Naismith (now with him again at Wigan), Jayden Stockley (now at PNE).  
They won the league the next year. 
 

He then moved to Wigan. Signed Chey Dunkley, Gavin Massey, Ivan Toney, Lee Evans, Jay Fulton, Christian Walton. Got promoted. 
Next season he signs Kipre, Windass, Garner, Pilkington - solid, no frills signings. He also loaned in Reece James, Antonee Robinson, Dan Burn. 
Followed up this season with Joe Williams, Jamal Lowe, Kieron Dowell. 
 

It’s safe to say that Paul Cook can spot a player. He also signs players that fit into his style. He has 3 promotions with 3 different clubs. 
Perhaps I just like him because he has a similar liking to players as I do. Again, when I was scouting, I also shortlisted many of the players he signed (Darikwa (well he didn’t sign him but gave him his chance), Cooper, O’Shea, Morsy, Evans, Johnson, Stevens, Naismith, Stockley, Windass, Dunkley, Toney, Fulton, Walton). 

I’d take Paul Cook here, with his own remit for recruitment, in a heartbeat. 

Edited by Harry
  • Like 17
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

 He took Sunderland into the premier league as champions of the championship in 2005 and he took Wolves into the premier league as champions of the championship in 2009 ...

So no recent record then.... surprised Harry Basset hasn’t been mentioned he’s got more than a few promotions on his cv..

Come on do we really want an old dinosaur off the managerial merry go round.

Nigel Clough has a few promotions including a League Cup semi final plays entertaining football is a name that would attract players currently out of work and could start Thursday morning.

Edited by Sir Geoff
Text error
Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry if Lee ever gets shown the door the next one will more than likely be someone who will be tied the the project, but will be someone different. Not going to happen, SL will stand by his man, the Lee dynasty will go on and on it will take more than this minor winless run to change things.

Expect major rebuilding next window with the best leaving and newbies arriving as we go around again. Same old same old.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So McCarthy (at age 61) is regarded as a Dinosaur. I'd be interested to know at what age you start to become a dinosaur? Hoddle and Allardyce are older btw. You can have a manager who likes to coach Barcelona esque all day long, but if the players aren't capable of producing the goods, the coach needs to simplify the system to something everyone can readily and easily adapt to with a degree of enthusiasm, attitude and positivity. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Harry said:

Paul Cook getting a lot of respect these days.  
I remember when I was scouting, and I watched his Chesterfield team back in 12/13, 13/14 and 14/15. 
I actually really loved watching that team. I had a personal scouting fave of mine whom I loved watching, Tendayi Darikwa. They had a quality creative player in Jay O’Shea, who was used correctly and effectively. They had steel with Liam Cooper at CB. 
 

In fact, the first thing that Cook did when he took over was to bring Liam Cooper (now at Leeds) in on loan. He then quickly followed that up with the loaning of O’Shea and Connor Townsend (now at West Brom). They were his first signings - an eye for talent or what?? 
 

Lovely team to watch that Chesterfield 12/13 13/14 side. 
 

The next season he brought in Sam Morsy - proper solid DM, Eion Doyle, who he’d worked with at Sligo, then solidified further with signings like Ian Evatt, Ritchie Humphreys, Gary Roberts - proper good signings for the level, no frills, players who just give their all. Roberts followed him to Portsmouth and to Wigan. Morsy also at Wigan now too. 
 

He built a proper solid team, but one that played good football - I scouted them loads at that time - solid spine (Cooper/Evatt/Morsy/Roberts) then attacking flair with Darikwa, O’Shea, Doyle.

They won the league. 
 

The next season, he brought in Sam Clucas, Daniel Johnson on loan, Mark Duffy (helped Sheff U to promotion last year). 
He got them to the League One playoffs. 

I’ve been watching Cook ever since those days. He can certainly spot a player. 
 

He went to Portsmouth and brought in Matt Clarke (the now highly rated Brighton CB), Enda Stevens & Kieron Freeman (both of whom helped Sheff U to the Prem), Kal Naismith (now with him again at Wigan), Jayden Stockley (now at PNE).  
They won the league the next year. 
 

He then moved to Wigan. Signed Chey Dunkley, Gavin Massey, Ivan Toney, Lee Evans, Jay Fulton, Christian Walton. Got promoted. 
Next season he signs Kipre, Windass, Garner, Pilkington - solid, no frills signings. He also loaned in Reece James, Antonee Robinson, Dan Burn. 
Followed up this season with Joe Williams, Jamal Lowe, Kieron Dowell. 
 

It’s safe to say that Paul Cook can spot a player. He also signs players that fit into his style. He has 3 promotions with 3 different clubs. 
Perhaps I just like him because he has a similar liking to players as I do. Again, when I was scouting, I also shortlisted many of the players he signed (Darikwa (well he didn’t sign him but gave him his chance), Cooper, O’Shea, Morsy, Evans, Johnson, Stevens, Naismith, Stockley, Windass, Dunkley, Toney, Fulton, Walton). 

I’d take Paul Cook here, with his own remit for recruitment, in a heartbeat. 

He has also gained promotions. That is a skill , and it is rare and takes a particular approach to management, team building , consistency and application. I had not appreciated how well he has done. Thanks for the insight it is very interesting. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...