WirralRobin Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 I have several but my biggest frustration and worry since the restart is that with a large, talented, injury free squad coming off the back of a 3 month break where LJ and the management team have been able to think about and focus almost exclusively on tactics and style of play, LJ still doesn't seem to know not only his best 11, but our best style of play and formation. I find it all the more baffling as coming into the season post deadline day we were playing slick, exciting, successful football in a fluid 3-5-2 formation with standout players including a pre-injury Benik Afobe, pre-injury Adam Nagy, Taylor Moore as a ball playing centre half and of course getting the best out of Kasey Palmer as the most attacking of a midfield three. Why do we think LJ has not immediately returned to that formation/style post restart now we have our injured players back and now arguably have even better players available that fit the system? Jay De Silva now fit who would surely make a great left wing back, Nakhi Wells would surely suit the system well up top with Afobe (with Diedhiou and Weimann also great options), Paterson as a great alternative to Palmer as and when required, more protection for our threadbare centre mids etc. The system also has a built in plan B with Elliasson coming off the bench if we need to change it up. I really don't see how a starting 11 of the below would not be a match for anyone in the league: Maenpaa Kalas Williams Baker Hunt Nagy Smith De Silva Palmer Wells Afobe I know many of you have been crying out for similar so why do we think LJ is so adverse to returning to it? As for Kasey Palmer, I really feel for the bloke, he has had minimal real opportunities to make a difference this year since Afobe's injury and the little I have seen of him I think he's looked more than decent and looked up for it! The sight today of seeing Zack Vyner, nothing against the kid, coming on with two mins to go ahead of him is a real worry for me and can't not knock Kasey's confidence further. Even in those two minutes Zack had a couple of opportunities, would Palmer have made more of them? Possibly. As someone who has always been very pro LJ I just find it all very baffling and I find it impossible to justify. As so many have said we are crying out for an identify, a distinct way of playing and for me it's how we started the season, why can't LJ see if?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 With Afobe and wells you either play 352 or a version of 442. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Lez said: With Afobe and wells you either play 352 or a version of 442. Simple. Unfortunately "simple" does not appear in LJ's coaching dictionary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralRobin Posted June 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 Just now, Matty_Taylor_is_god said: Have thought that a 352 that we used when we won league one with Palmer playing the Freeman role would get the best out of our squad Completely agree, Afobe and Wells are good pressers of the ball too so a 3-5-2 would/should combine the best of that league 1 winning formation with the high press style of LJ's league cup run team with Bobby Reid et al - I just think it has soo much potential going forward while still giving defensive protection so lacking over the last few months Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 16 minutes ago, WirralRobin said: I have several but my biggest frustration and worry since the restart is that with a large, talented, injury free squad coming off the back of a 3 month break where LJ and the management team have been able to think about and focus almost exclusively on tactics and style of play, LJ still doesn't seem to know not only his best 11, but our best style of play and formation. I find it all the more baffling as coming into the season post deadline day we were playing slick, exciting, successful football in a fluid 3-5-2 formation with standout players including a pre-injury Benik Afobe, pre-injury Adam Nagy, Taylor Moore as a ball playing centre half and of course getting the best out of Kasey Palmer as the most attacking of a midfield three. Why do we think LJ has not immediately returned to that formation/style post restart now we have our injured players back and now arguably have even better players available that fit the system? Jay De Silva now fit who would surely make a great left wing back, Nakhi Wells would surely suit the system well up top with Afobe (with Diedhiou and Weimann also great options), Paterson as a great alternative to Palmer as and when required, more protection for our threadbare centre mids etc. The system also has a built in plan B with Elliasson coming off the bench if we need to change it up. I really don't see how a starting 11 of the below would not be a match for anyone in the league: Maenpaa Kalas Williams Baker Hunt Nagy Smith De Silva Palmer Wells Afobe I know many of you have been crying out for similar so why do we think LJ is so adverse to returning to it? As for Kasey Palmer, I really feel for the bloke, he has had minimal real opportunities to make a difference this year since Afobe's injury and the little I have seen of him I think he's looked more than decent and looked up for it! The sight today of seeing Zack Vyner, nothing against the kid, coming on with two mins to go ahead of him is a real worry for me and can't not knock Kasey's confidence further. Even in those two minutes Zack had a couple of opportunities, would Palmer have made more of them? Possibly. As someone who has always been very pro LJ I just find it all very baffling and I find it impossible to justify. As so many have said we are crying out for an identify, a distinct way of playing and for me it's how we started the season, why can't LJ see if?! The only reason I wouldn't necessarily start a 5-3-2 is because there is no space for Eliasson in that formation. But, given that we didn't start with Eliasson anyway, I don't have a clue what the reasoning is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralRobin Posted June 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said: The only reason I wouldn't necessarily start a 5-3-2 is because there is no space for Eliasson in that formation. But, given that we didn't start with Eliasson anyway, I don't have a clue what the reasoning is. Really good point. A big worry for me today was we didn't really ever look like we had a plan for how we were going to create chances while in possession there was no creativity at all. You could say the same for us all season as we have a woeful record in matches in which we have over 50% possession over the cause of a match. Surely at least one of Eliasson, Palmer or Paterson have to start each game. I thought Afobe played really well today but having him out on the left wing really does not play to his or our strengths at all. Like I say above I like the idea of either Palmer or Paterson in the whole feeding Afobe and Wells up top from the start to try to get the best out of them as a partnership. We are then in the fantastic position of being able to bring on Eliasson and Diedhiou off the bench if we need to change the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intercity Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 hours ago, WirralRobin said: I have several but my biggest frustration and worry since the restart is that with a large, talented, injury free squad coming off the back of a 3 month break where LJ and the management team have been able to think about and focus almost exclusively on tactics and style of play, LJ still doesn't seem to know not only his best 11, but our best style of play and formation. I find it all the more baffling as coming into the season post deadline day we were playing slick, exciting, successful football in a fluid 3-5-2 formation with standout players including a pre-injury Benik Afobe, pre-injury Adam Nagy, Taylor Moore as a ball playing centre half and of course getting the best out of Kasey Palmer as the most attacking of a midfield three. Why do we think LJ has not immediately returned to that formation/style post restart now we have our injured players back and now arguably have even better players available that fit the system? Jay De Silva now fit who would surely make a great left wing back, Nakhi Wells would surely suit the system well up top with Afobe (with Diedhiou and Weimann also great options), Paterson as a great alternative to Palmer as and when required, more protection for our threadbare centre mids etc. The system also has a built in plan B with Elliasson coming off the bench if we need to change it up. I really don't see how a starting 11 of the below would not be a match for anyone in the league: Maenpaa Kalas Williams Baker Hunt Nagy Smith De Silva Palmer Wells Afobe I know many of you have been crying out for similar so why do we think LJ is so adverse to returning to it? As for Kasey Palmer, I really feel for the bloke, he has had minimal real opportunities to make a difference this year since Afobe's injury and the little I have seen of him I think he's looked more than decent and looked up for it! The sight today of seeing Zack Vyner, nothing against the kid, coming on with two mins to go ahead of him is a real worry for me and can't not knock Kasey's confidence further. Even in those two minutes Zack had a couple of opportunities, would Palmer have made more of them? Possibly. As someone who has always been very pro LJ I just find it all very baffling and I find it impossible to justify. As so many have said we are crying out for an identify, a distinct way of playing and for me it's how we started the season, why can't LJ see if?! Great post; it should be plain for all to see. We have the fortune to have an injury free Afobe for 9 games, when it seemed we would never see him again in a city shirt. At least this season. We know he plays well up front with Palmer behind for the through balls. We also know a central midfield of Massengo and Smith doesn't work. We also know our full backs are a weak link and better as wing backs with a back 3. What we see beggars belief. Only our head coach can't understand these simple concepts. Johnson has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 Doesn’t solve the problem of no bite in the midfield, and I really wonder what Palmer has done to achieve this status of ‘saviour’. To me he looks like a poor signing, especially as he didn’t impress on loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WirralRobin Posted June 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, Chappers said: Doesn’t solve the problem of no bite in the midfield, and I really wonder what Palmer has done to achieve this status of ‘saviour’. To me he looks like a poor signing, especially as he didn’t impress on loan. I'd argue the best, most attractive and most successful football we've played this season was 3-5-2 with Palmer and Afobe in the side at the start of the season where we scored 10 goals in the 5 games they started together before Afobe's injury. I think I'm right in saying he struck up a good partnership with Wells a few years back when they played together at Huddersfield too and played a key role in their promotion that year. I agree we've failed to get the most out of him this year but I'd argue he hasn't really been given the opportunity he deserves, especially in his best position in a system that suits him. He's started 11 games all year, 5 of those were alongside Afobe at the start of the season. As for bite in midfield I actually think that's a part of Kasey's game he doesn't get credit for. According to Whoscored.com he actually averages more tackles per 90 minutes played (1.7) this season than Nagy (1.3), Massengo (1.4) and Korey Smith (1.5) - I agree that goes to show how lightweight those three have been but I think he'd help make a difference there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AppyDAZE Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 Because he is cleverer than you. Just get over it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGBjammy Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 100% agree with a 352. Yes it doesn't fit Eliasson but I think that's the only downside. Can always bring on Eliasson and Diedhou as a plan B. Would love to see either Pato or Palmer in behind Wells and Afobe. Worked early in the season, and now we have Wells too, what's not to like?! Hopefully we could keep the formation next season too and incorporate Walsh/Morrell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiltshire robin Posted June 28, 2020 Report Share Posted June 28, 2020 8 hours ago, ReggyRed said: Have thought that a 352 that we used when we won league one with Palmer playing the Freeman role would get the best out of our squad This exactly, it works for me on Fifa and football manager anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Popodopolous Posted June 29, 2020 Report Share Posted June 29, 2020 11 hours ago, WirralRobin said: I have several but my biggest frustration and worry since the restart is that with a large, talented, injury free squad coming off the back of a 3 month break where LJ and the management team have been able to think about and focus almost exclusively on tactics and style of play, LJ still doesn't seem to know not only his best 11, but our best style of play and formation. I find it all the more baffling as coming into the season post deadline day we were playing slick, exciting, successful football in a fluid 3-5-2 formation with standout players including a pre-injury Benik Afobe, pre-injury Adam Nagy, Taylor Moore as a ball playing centre half and of course getting the best out of Kasey Palmer as the most attacking of a midfield three. Why do we think LJ has not immediately returned to that formation/style post restart now we have our injured players back and now arguably have even better players available that fit the system? Jay De Silva now fit who would surely make a great left wing back, Nakhi Wells would surely suit the system well up top with Afobe (with Diedhiou and Weimann also great options), Paterson as a great alternative to Palmer as and when required, more protection for our threadbare centre mids etc. The system also has a built in plan B with Elliasson coming off the bench if we need to change it up. I really don't see how a starting 11 of the below would not be a match for anyone in the league: Maenpaa Kalas Williams Baker Hunt Nagy Smith De Silva Palmer Wells Afobe I know many of you have been crying out for similar so why do we think LJ is so adverse to returning to it? As for Kasey Palmer, I really feel for the bloke, he has had minimal real opportunities to make a difference this year since Afobe's injury and the little I have seen of him I think he's looked more than decent and looked up for it! The sight today of seeing Zack Vyner, nothing against the kid, coming on with two mins to go ahead of him is a real worry for me and can't not knock Kasey's confidence further. Even in those two minutes Zack had a couple of opportunities, would Palmer have made more of them? Possibly. As someone who has always been very pro LJ I just find it all very baffling and I find it impossible to justify. As so many have said we are crying out for an identify, a distinct way of playing and for me it's how we started the season, why can't LJ see if?! I agree with a lot of your post but I query one or two of your selections. I worry about Williams and pace, and whether he can be targeted, as a weakish link. Put Moore if we had him or Benkovic in there and that would reduce the vulnerablity- if there was a hypothetical Moore-Kalas-Benkovic that actually could have some good ball-carrying potential and be of an age and type profile to squeeze up, narrow between the lines etc- perhaps have one step up into midfield on occasion. Vs a 4-3-3, I worry about whether 2 v 1 can be exposed, say vs Brentford. I would not mind this side at all though, with the odd possible alteration- Weimann not a bad first reserve up front and good at pressing, Massengo's energy likewise as a first reserve- and he could have better days to come given his age. Good platform for next season with Moore, Walsh and Morrell to return- some good options, if we go into next year with some consistent shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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