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Pro’s and cons of LJs reign


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11 minutes ago, MATT BCFC said:

He's done ok but like his dad I think he's just not good enough to take a side to the premier league. 

I think if we were to keep him we would be a lot more likely to go down than up. 

Bit harsh on his dad I think. He was 90 minutes away from taking us to the PL, and on a relatively small budget

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34 minutes ago, Fordy62 said:

Pro - that wonderful half a season. What amazing football we played. 
 

Con - he’s proved since it can only have been a fluke formula. 

This is my issue when i look back at 17/18, at the time i and many others thought that the masterplan was finally coming together and this was to be the BCFC blueprint going forward. It clearly was a complete fluke from the management team.

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34 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

“More failures than success with new players” - really?

I’d like to see some proper analysis to back that up. It’s an easy throwaway comment to make but is it really the case? To my mind it’s a mixed bag and for every Engvall or Garita there’s been a Dasilva or Tammy.

I give you Tammy, and as much as I think that Dasilva will be an astute signing, I’m not sure we’ve quite seen enough of him yet. 

Truth be told, I’m not sure we’ll see how good many of these players are until they start playing as a team. And that isn’t going to start happening until, well... you know when. 

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PROS: Year on year progress in league position.

CONS: Despite the above. I ask the question, but what would other another Manager / Coach have achieved with a similar budget and support from SL? My feeling is that the answer is, much better.

I looked at our first 11 yesterday and the bench and on paper, I honestly can't remember such a strong looking squad. Unfortunately, matches aren't played on paper and I thought we'd play Fobes and Wells up front as a two. However, it was decided that Fobes would play out on the left leaving Wells largely isolated. This is just one example of mind blowing and frankly frustrating decisions / tactics over the last 4+ years.

If City are to be taken seriously as contenders for even a top 6 finish then there has to be bold changes i.e. Management Team as a whole. If however, SL is happy with just being an established Championship streaky team that may get lucky in that a good streak propels the team in to the top 6. Then stick with LJ and his staff.

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Around the time that we beat Man Ure we were riding high in the league, playing bright, attacking, pressing football. We lost at home to Wolves from a winning position, got hammered at Villa and we've never seem to get that playing style back. I don't know if Johnson's belief of that playing style was lost then but it's what we appear to be best at. I know he hadn't been helped by the sale of Flint, Reid, Bryan, Webster etc but we've appeared to have recruited well but never found that urgency again. 

Watching yesterday was awful. We lacked confidence, had no quality and we still don't appear to have at least one leader on the pitch. We are a rudderless ship and it's time for a change. 

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2 hours ago, Robbored said:

Pro’s

Has made season on season progress in the Championship table despite having to sell on his better players pretty much every window and rightly or wrongly that’s exactly what SL expects. Personally I like way he conducts interviews. I feel he tries treats us fans with respect by using coaching speak that few fans actually understand.......but at least he tries. 

Cons

He’s prone to runs of losses and tends to react by changing the team in an effort to stop the rot (we saw a glimpse of that yesterday with 7 changes).

His style of play lacks any real flair or tempo and has often been described by fans as boring, drab and uninspiring. Many are fed up with the lack of excitement on show. Personally I think he’s way too cautious when he sends his team out. It’s as if they’re under strict instructions on what they can and can’t do. 
Take Eliasson and CoD for example. Both skilled, pacy with quick feet but how often do we see either of them have the freedom to try to create havoc? The teams looks shackled to me. 

Imo the explanation for that is that LJ is way too concerned about losing the match and tends to massively over complicate  what is a simple game. 
 

Summary

Despite losing his better players thru transfers I feel that LJ has been at AG long enough to have created a squad capable of reaching the top six but so far has failed to do so and it’s looks increasingly unlikely this time around. That  means SLs dream of the PL Riches goes on hold for yet another season.

Will SL have lost patience with LJ yet?  because regardless of what we fans think its ultimately his decision on LJs future at AG.

My feeling is that maybe, just maybe that he has..........

 

 


 

 

All Cons!

Lee Johnson has conned everyone at Bristol City. From SL to the kids who sit in their carry cots with parents who are trying to bring them up the right way.

 

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Reading the thread it's clear that the "pros" tend to be historical, or can be classified as memories.

The "cons" are issues of the present. 

That in itself is enough to tell you that the time has come for a change. The good memories will be with us forever but if we want to progress, if we want to make new memories that we can cherish, then it's time to say thanks for all the work, but goodbye.

As an aside: I disagree that his interviews show that he "respects the fans". IMO it demonstrates that he is unable to explain his coaching methods in language that a layperson can understand, in my experience that indicates that he actually lacks a deep understanding of those methods. When you truly understand something you can talk about it with paupers and kings. You shouldn't need a UEFA B licence to understand him. It's patronising and dismissive to use phrases "box entries" and "arousal levels" and to then dismiss the questions asked.

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My WUM radar may be on the blink but, that was an extremely credible post by Robbered. 👍

Pros:

LJ has stabilised the club in the Championship and I believe he has to be credited in raising the profile of the club. He has given us some really good memories and, I for one, enjoyed walking into the office and calmly saying "Man Who?"

Cons:

I feel that LJ's biggest failing is his total inability to manage his players in a way that will gain their respect and trust. To publicly call them out and throw them under the bus when results are bad is a cardinal sin. We may hate Colin but, he would probably have a go at the players in the private confines of the dressing room and then in public use tack to deflect the blame onto anyone and anything else. 

I have seen lots of comments that LJ is an up and coming Coach but, feel that he has over complicated his methods. He should not keep changing formations and playing players in positions that they are not familiar with. Select a formation, agree a style of play and get the basics right. Go out and play that with confidence and let other teams worry about us and not be intimidated into changing formations every week to adjust to the opposition. Perhaps then we will get back to playing more attractive football and looking like a team that want to play for each other and the management.

Summary:

I fear that LJ has run out of steam and should leave but, if SL decides to keep him on, then the cheque book should be taken away with the warning that he has been given enough windows and money to date and the results should reflect this. Unless something drastic happens in the last few games, if LJ was a true man he would hold up his hands and admit that he, and only he, has failed this season.

 

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3 hours ago, exAtyeoMax said:

Propensity to blame players

Totally agree Max. The fact he's used the "players I can trust" shite several times is just rank bad management 

And all this talk of "identity" is nonsense too. We simply don't have one. 

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A common 'pro' listed by many has the " year on year progress" but you need to be wearing very rose (red in fact) tinted glasses to seem it progress worthy of the term.

If when Bristol City held the press conference to unveil LJ - He had sat there and said " I have big ambitions for this club - give me £50Million, over 60 new signings. 9 transfer windows and 4 seasons and I'll get this club 5 places up the league from 20th to 15th (our likely finishing position based on form and fixtures) I don't think anybody would have been happy.

Even if you look outside the league table, is LJ building anything on the pitch? He's accumulating players but 4 years on we still don't have an identity, playing style, or have a team which is growing and developing each season as they take on board and absorb LJ's coaching ideas.......how could they when the players, tactics, and system change every week.

 

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Pros: We’re in the top half of the table, I think. I haven’t looked lately because I can’t be bothered. 
 

Cons: I can’t remember coming away from Ashton Gate having enjoyed an entertaining win this season. 
 

Verdict: I’ve had enough!

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It’s just simply the right time to get rid of LJ . As much as the majority want him gone I do feel that Uncle Steve will wait until it’s mathematically impossible to get into the playoffs or even worse still let him resign in the summer . 

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2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

As an aside: I disagree that his interviews show that he "respects the fans". IMO it demonstrates that he is unable to explain his coaching methods in language that a layperson can understand, in my experience that indicates that he actually lacks a deep understanding of those methods. When you truly understand something you can talk about it with paupers and kings. You shouldn't need a UEFA B licence to understand him. It's patronising and dismissive to use phrases "box entries" and "arousal levels" and to then dismiss the questions asked.

That’s certainly one way of looking at it and it did cross my mind during one of the first times I heard LJ use coaching terminology but, as then I’m prepared to put a positive take on it. 
 

That said he could be just showing off his understanding of coaching terms...............:cool2:

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Lee Johnson is the con.

Did the management courses, learned the cliches, cultivated an aura of being a "modern" coach purely on the basis of being young.

I would absolutely flabbergasted if any of the players who were here when he arrived thought LJ was a better coach and man manager than Cotts.

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4 hours ago, petehinton said:

Swansea lost their 2 best players and manager, Millwall lost their manager, Brentford lost their best player, Cardiff changed manager, Derby lost their 3 best players and manager. It doesnt wash with me (discussed on latest osib, link to listen below, hint hint plug plug)

Au contraire. Do you see what you did there?... made i laugh. 

4 hours ago, cityloyal473 said:

Pro - he's helped to raise the profile of the club and has no doubt contributed to a more professional set up.

Con - he is the David Brent of football management.

Summary - lovely bloke, good ideas, but cannot practice what he preaches. Time for a change.

How do you know he's a lovely bloke? 🤣

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3 hours ago, Redpool said:

Brentford lost some very key players over the last year. No excuses at all

That's because they have an identity and a style of play. They replace those players with others that can do that particular job. They also have a manager that gives them the direction and freedom to play an exciting attacking brand of football.

We have........no identity and replace our best players with good "clubs in the bag". We also have ......Lee who IMO confuses the sh!t out of the players and us fans with his over clever/complicated analysis and directions with no apparent game plan and installs fear into them instead of freedom.

We have an abundance of talent in our squad, possibly the best strike force in our division and still struggle to have any shots on target.

SO FRUSTRATING 😡

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2 hours ago, ExiledAjax said:

As an aside: I disagree that his interviews show that he "respects the fans". IMO it demonstrates that he is unable to explain his coaching methods in language that a layperson can understand, in my experience that indicates that he actually lacks a deep understanding of those methods. When you truly understand something you can talk about it with paupers and kings. You shouldn't need a UEFA B licence to understand him. It's patronising and dismissive to use phrases "box entries" and "arousal levels" and to then dismiss the questions asked.

Otherwise known as when in doubt baffle them with bullshit and hope they are too dumb to figure it out. 

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1 minute ago, NickJ said:

Did the management courses, learned the cliches, cultivated an aura of being a "modern" coach purely on the basis of being young.

I would absolutely flabbergasted if any of the players who were here when he arrived thought LJ was a better coach and man manager than Cotts.

I completely agree with your first sentence but not with Cotts being a better man manger. I’ve heard two or three of Cotts former players now working as tv pundits comment that he an excellent coach but ‘doesn’t know how to talk to players’ That’s not the view of just one unhappy former player either.
 

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1 minute ago, Robbored said:

I completely agree with your first sentence but not with Cotts being a better man manger. I’ve heard two or three of Cotts former players now working as tv pundits comment that he an excellent coach but ‘doesn’t know how to talk to players’ That’s not the view of just one unhappy former player either.
 

That's the complete opposite of what Aaron Wilbraham said in his recent OSIB podcast interview. He said Cotts managed the squad excellently and was very good with the players and they all respected him and he managed issues like contracts, dropping players, and telling players they would be moving on very well.  He also said Cotts was an excellent tactician and  - his words - "he could walk in and discuss tactics with the likes of Pep - he was that good"  Wilbs very words - It's all on the interview check it out.

 

Wilbs also said LJ could be weak, particularly with Tomlin who took the piss out of LJ openly in front of the other Players, giving the example of Tomlin repeatedly ignoring the no phones in the dressing room rule - Wilbs said he spoke privately to LJ and advised him to be firm with Tomlin but LJ wouldn't and instead changed the rule and allowed phones rather than confront Tomlin.....and then LJ pretended the rule change was to help the foreign players settle in as they could text friends etc. Wilbs was not impressed and he seems a level headed guy not prone to pettiness and tells it like it is.

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18 minutes ago, NickJ said:

Lee Johnson is the con.

Did the management courses, learned the cliches, cultivated an aura of being a "modern" coach purely on the basis of being young.

I would absolutely flabbergasted if any of the players who were here when he arrived thought LJ was a better coach and man manager than Cotts.

Wilbraham certainly rated Cotts much more highly as a coach. (said so in his OSIB podcast)

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51 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Totally agree Max. The fact he's used the "players I can trust" shite several times is just rank bad management 

And all this talk of "identity" is nonsense too. We simply don't have one. 

Signed 60 + players and the only one he regularly trusts is the only one he didn't for City.....Korey Smith !!

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1 minute ago, CodeRed said:

That's the complete opposite of what Aaron Wilbraham said in his recent OSIB podcast interview. He said Cotts managed the squad excellently and was very good with the players and they all respected him and he managed issues like contracts, dropping players, and telling players they would be moving on very well.  He also said Cotts was an excellent tactician and  - his words - "he could walk in and discuss tactics with the likes of Pep - he was that good"  Wilbs very words - It's all on the interview check it out.

 

Wilbs also said LJ could be weak, particularly with Tomlin who took the piss out of LJ openly in front of the other Players, giving the example of Tomlin repeatedly ignoring the no phones in the dressing room rule - Wilbs said he spoke privately to LJ and advised him to be firm with Tomlin but LJ wouldn't and instead changed the rule and allowed phones rather than confront Tomlin.....and then LJ pretended the rule change was to help the foreign players settle in as they could text friends etc. Wilbs was not impressed and he seems a level headed guy not prone to pettiness and tells it like it is.

That just highlights how different players get along with different managers. I guess it’s the same in pretty much all work situations.

I did my best to get along with whoever my line manager was even if I thought they were hopeless and that was regular occurrence in the NHS. 

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

That just highlights how different players get along with different managers. I guess it’s the same in pretty much all work situations.

I did my best to get along with whoever my line manager was even if I thought they were hopeless and that was regular occurrence in the NHS. 

I'm sure they spoke highly of you though 🙂

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1 hour ago, Robbored said:

I completely agree with your first sentence but not with Cotts being a better man manger. I’ve heard two or three of Cotts former players now working as tv pundits comment that he an excellent coach but ‘doesn’t know how to talk to players’ That’s not the view of just one unhappy former player either.
 

On the basis of things I have been told that came straight out of the dressing room(when Cotts was manager), I'd have to very strongly disagree.

 

1 hour ago, CodeRed said:

That's the complete opposite of what Aaron Wilbraham said in his recent OSIB podcast interview. He said Cotts managed the squad excellently and was very good with the players and they all respected him and he managed issues like contracts, dropping players, and telling players they would be moving on very well.  He also said Cotts was an excellent tactician and  - his words - "he could walk in and discuss tactics with the likes of Pep - he was that good"  Wilbs very words - It's all on the interview check it out.

 

Wilbs also said LJ could be weak, particularly with Tomlin who took the piss out of LJ openly in front of the other Players, giving the example of Tomlin repeatedly ignoring the no phones in the dressing room rule - Wilbs said he spoke privately to LJ and advised him to be firm with Tomlin but LJ wouldn't and instead changed the rule and allowed phones rather than confront Tomlin.....and then LJ pretended the rule change was to help the foreign players settle in as they could text friends etc. Wilbs was not impressed and he seems a level headed guy not prone to pettiness and tells it like it is.

Yes, and Wilbs was very clearly choosing his words very carefully and diplomatically.

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2 hours ago, CodeRed said:

A common 'pro' listed by many has the " year on year progress" but you need to be wearing very rose (red in fact) tinted glasses to seem it progress worthy of the term.

If when Bristol City held the press conference to unveil LJ - He had sat there and said " I have big ambitions for this club - give me £50Million, over 60 new signings. 9 transfer windows and 4 seasons and I'll get this club 5 places up the league from 20th to 15th (our likely finishing position based on form and fixtures) I don't think anybody would have been happy.

Even if you look outside the league table, is LJ building anything on the pitch? He's accumulating players but 4 years on we still don't have an identity, playing style, or have a team which is growing and developing each season as they take on board and absorb LJ's coaching ideas.......how could they when the players, tactics, and system change every week.

 

Granted. However, prior to this season it has been year on year progress. 

Now, whether we like the term 'progress'  that banded about term has gone. OTIB has threads of this or a similar nature running hot and for good reason.

I'm certainly not sticking up for Lee here. The fact is there is no reason to keep him in charge anymore. Absolutely none.

The only thing that could or maybe will save him is SL's unwillingness to admit by sacking Lee that he would be wrong to let him continue. That said, SL is an extremely successful businessman and I'm betting he had had to step on a few along the way including people he is close to. Everyone has their tipping point and I'm thinking SL must to be close or at that point right now.

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Pros: 

Has shown his ability to get promotion form from a team.

Given us some real highlights.

Achieved amazing away form.

Cons:

Has shown his ability to get  relegation form from the same team.

Too many baffling team set ups and selections and thereby make a team less than the sum of it's parts.

Inability to get the team playing on the front foot.

Achieved amazingly bad home form and results.

Verdict:

The longer he's been with us, the more it increasingly feels that his future is behind him. For him and us I think now is the right time for a change.

 

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8 hours ago, Robbored said:

Pro’s

Has made season on season progress in the Championship table despite having to sell on his better players pretty much every window and rightly or wrongly that’s exactly what SL expects. Personally I like way he conducts interviews. I feel he tries treats us fans with respect by using coaching speak that few fans actually understand.......but at least he tries.

I see that as a negative.  Know your audience, and I appreciate his “immediate audience” is the media, but they are only the front to us fans.  I get the coaching talk / lingo, but I sense smugness when he uses it, thinking he’s cleverer than “us”.

Cons

He’s prone to runs of losses and tends to react by changing the team in an effort to stop the rot (we saw a glimpse of that yesterday with 7 changes).

His style of play lacks any real flair or tempo and has often been described by fans as boring, drab and uninspiring. Many are fed up with the lack of excitement on show. Personally I think he’s way too cautious when he sends his team out. It’s as if they’re under strict instructions on what they can and can’t do. 
Take Eliasson and CoD for example. Both skilled, pacy with quick feet but how often do we see either of them have the freedom to try to create havoc? The teams looks shackled to me.
Pretty much agree.  I’m not so sure it’s cautious, more rigidity, that when countered by an 11 men opposition (rather than our own players at Failand) is stifled and leads to unimaginative hoofing it up the pitch.

Imo the explanation for that is that LJ is way too concerned about losing the match and tends to massively over complicate  what is a simple game.

Yep, stifling the qualities the players have, which is why we wanted them in the first place.
 

Summary

Despite losing his better players thru transfers I feel that LJ has been at AG long enough to have created a squad capable of reaching the top six but so far has failed to do so and it’s looks increasingly unlikely this time around. That  means SLs dream of the PL Riches goes on hold for yet another season.

Will SL have lost patience with LJ yet?  because regardless of what we fans think its ultimately his decision on LJs future at AG.

in some ways, covid behind closed doors matches might hide the fact that less fans were physically coming through the turnstiles (irrespective of the published attendance) and if behind closed doors continues into next season (very likely), I would imagine many season card holders won’t tolerate a Robinstv pass as commensurate to a £300-£500 season card.  That will make SL think.

My feeling is that maybe, just maybe that he has..........

 

 


 

 

Sorry haven’t read everyone’s replied, so might duplicate.  Responses to Robbo above ⬆️⬆️⬆️

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8 hours ago, Redstart said:

Massive con for me is the grey, lifeless, sterile boring football served up now for quite some time. I just won't spend hard earned money to watch that crap and I don't actually care what position we are sitting in the league - it's just soul destroying to watch.

I've seen this accusation before, but tweren't always so.  When we had mastered a quick-passing, high-press game under Johnson we were one of the most exciting teams to watch in the league. I've seen better Championship football  under LJ than I've seen under any manager for decades.

Trouble is, when he gets a good thing going he doesn't know what has made it tick and he goes and chops and changes and you end up with a disorganised mess: like we've seen recently.

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