Really Lee...

[Mr Popodopolous]

9 minutes ago, redpole said:

Things is though, I liked the set up.

extra man in midfield, which is what we need at the moment as we get cut open so easy. 
 

front three on paper, should work, although we need our Full backs to be on top of their game and yesterday they were not that’s why Afobe was out left so much and being dragged back and not tucked in closer to NW.

 

I hope he continues with it, Afobe has played in this position for Wolves and done well, so why can’t it work for us??? We need to make sure our full backs are on their top game, which will let Afobe concentrate on his role set out by LJ. 
 

Also we need someone to keep the ball ticking over and go forwards, so hopefully Nagy can do this and play alongside Smith/Massengo with Palmer creating the passes for the front 3 to latch onto. In place of O’Dowda who I rate with his energy and runs forward, although he’s been off his game for a while now, so maybe he will offer this as a sub coming off the bench for 15/20mins. 

O'Dowda is NOT a suitable 3rd man. It's an extra body but it's a bit shoe-horned, bit like Palmer or Paterson- still lacks adequate balance, or players in a natural position.

Would Brentford play a wide forward as part of their mdifield 3? Or Leeds, or Fulham, WBA when they play a 3- I could go on!

I certainly agree with the principle of the shape, wonder if though Wells and Afobe could switch a bit- maybe Wells a bit more LF, Weimann a bit more RF, Afobe in the middle.

[Davefevs]

11 minutes ago, redpole said:

Things is though, I liked the set up.

extra man in midfield, which is what we need at the moment as we get cut open so easy. 
 

front three on paper, should work, although we need our Full backs to be on top of their game and yesterday they were not that’s why Afobe was out left so much and being dragged back and not tucked in closer to NW.

 

I hope he continues with it, Afobe has played in this position for Wolves and done well, so why can’t it work for us??? We need to make sure our full backs are on their top game, which will let Afobe concentrate on his role set out by LJ. 
 

Also we need someone to keep the ball ticking over and go forwards, so hopefully Nagy can do this and play alongside Smith/Massengo with Palmer creating the passes for the front 3 to latch onto. In place of O’Dowda who I rate with his energy and runs forward, although he’s been off his game for a while now, so maybe he will offer this as a sub coming off the bench for 15/20mins. 

When a Liverpool play a 433 or any passing team for that matter, they have the ability to try to go down one side, it they can’t progress, it comes back, across, down the other side, repeat, until opening is created.

When was the last time you saw us retain possession in that manner.  We might knock 6 or 7 passes between GK, FB, CB and CM....but we never progress the ball and keep the ball.  The team of 17/18 were able to do that, because they played as one unit (30-35 yards back to front), not 3 separate units, 50-55 yards apart.

Yesterday proved a formation alone is not the answer.

It also showed the head-coach may have plenty of ideas, but can not implement them into a game situation.

[Loco Rojo]

8 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

When a Liverpool play a 433 or any passing team for that matter, they have the ability to try to go down one side, it they can’t progress, it comes back, across, down the other side, repeat, until opening is created.

When was the last time you saw us retain possession in that manner.  We might knock 6 or 7 passes between GK, FB, CB and CM....but we never progress the ball and keep the ball.  The team of 17/18 were able to do that, because they played as one unit (30-35 yards back to front), not 3 separate units, 50-55 yards apart.

Yesterday proved a formation alone is not the answer.

It also showed the head-coach may have plenty of ideas, but can not implement them into a game situation.

This is the type of example that worries me the most. It's one thing to have the ideas (or try to mirror other teams - who are on another level of quality) in terms of formations and tactics BUT Lee doesn't seem to be able to translate the method in to reality in teaching the players and this has been a long term issue which is only getting worse - once the players lose interest or belief in the Coach then its game over.

How much longer will Landsdown watch this happen before action is taken.

[Mr Popodopolous]

7 minutes ago, Loco Rojo said:

This is the type of example that worries me the most. It's one thing to have the ideas (or try to mirror other teams - who are on another level of quality) in terms of formations and tactics BUT Lee doesn't seem to be able to translate the method in to reality in teaching the players and this has been a long term issue which is only getting worse - once the players lose interest or belief in the Coach then its game over.

How much longer will Landsdown watch this happen before action is taken.

He made a rod for his own back saying that.

I'd have had more respect had he come out and said: "Systems have been suspect for a while, this division, the way it is developing a 3 man central midfield is essential to retain possession and progress up the pitch".

Still doesn't explain of course the Afobe far left- and again had he been narrower left as in a LF that might have made some sense, though Wells feels more suitable for that- but no I dunno...LJ!

Let's be honest thogh, some kind of cohesive 4-3-3 would probably do us some good...just not what we saw Sunday!!

@Davefevs Forget Liverpool, or if he'd cited Man City, or a top European/international side- whoever, different level clearly.  Interested in your thoughts, do you think we can hope to succeed at this level any time soon without a genuine 4-3-3? I have significant doubts but interested in your thoughts of course, of ways in which we might, alternative routes to success setup wise- whether it'd be with or without LJ!

[Davefevs]

37 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

He made a rod for his own back saying that.

I'd have had more respect had he come out and said: "Systems have been suspect for a while, this division, the way it is developing a 3 man central midfield is essential to retain possession and progress up the pitch".

Still doesn't explain of course the Afobe far left- and again had he been narrower left as in a LF that might have made some sense, though Wells feels more suitable for that- but no I dunno...LJ!

Let's be honest thogh, some kind of cohesive 4-3-3 would probably do us some good...just not what we saw Sunday!!

@Davefevs Forget Liverpool, or if he'd cited Man City, or a top European/international side- whoever, different level clearly.  Interested in your thoughts, do you think we can hope to succeed at this level any time soon without a genuine 4-3-3? I have significant doubts but interested in your thoughts of course, of ways in which we might, alternative routes to success setup wise- whether it'd be with or without LJ!

You know me, formation is not the be all and end all for me, it’s about overall system, player roles within in, etc, etc.

If I have overarching principles, they are:

• Focus on central areas of the pitch without the ball, e.g. be narrow
• Short distances back to front, e.g. need pace at back and up top
• Strikers who are two dimensional, e.g. can come short and go long

Thats it!

[Peter1450]

Could easily condense that 11 minutes of waffle into 1 and still be none the wiser what the man actually wants on the pitch........

      As for playing a system like Liverpool,I’d be more than happy if Lee tried to emulate Brentford at least that should be achievable with the squad he has at his disposable.

[Mr Popodopolous]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

You know me, formation is not the be all and end all for me, it’s about overall system, player roles within in, etc, etc.

If I have overarching principles, they are:

• Focus on central areas of the pitch without the ball, e.g. be narrow
• Short distances back to front, e.g. need pace at back and up top
• Strikers who are two dimensional, e.g. can come short and go long

Thats it!

Yeah agreed, short distances to condense the space and narrow the lines, and some pace at both ends, both ends is important.

Central areas seems increasingly key in modern times for sure. Agree with all those underlying principles in fact. 

We differ on formations and importance which is of course fine.  

Can't help but think that on flipside, say Brentford would be less effective in our shape- whatever our shape truly is!

53 minutes ago, Peter1450 said:

 As for playing a system like Liverpool,I’d be more than happy if Lee tried to emulate Brentford at least that should be achievable with the squad he has at his disposable.

I'd love us to play like Brentford. It's a goal with some realism too as I'm not convinced man for man there are huge differences in ability between them and us in a lot of positions.

[Davefevs]

7 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Yeah agreed, short distances to condense the space and narrow the lines, and some pace at both ends, both ends is important.

Central areas seems increasingly key in modern times for sure. Agree with all those underlying principles in fact. 

We differ on formations and importance which is of course fine.  

Can't help but think that on flipside, say Brentford would be less effective in our shape- whatever our shape truly is!

I'd love us to play like Brentford. It's a goal with some realism too as I'm not convinced man for man there are huge differences in ability between them and us in a lot of positions.

I suspect Thomas Frank, with a bit of a tweak here or there, or a player here or there, could drill most systems.

[NickJ]

4 hours ago, CiderCraig said:

listen from 11.10 in.

Couldn't put myself through the first 11 minutes and 10 seconds, but thereafter from "pink boots" blamed for misses to covid blamed for goalkeeping errors to "I think we'd like to win" (yes he said that) it was all pretty much as expected. 

[steviestevieneville]

Can’t listen to his bullshit anymore