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Not sure if brought up elsewhere but letting him go out on loan to me is just as bad if not worse than not replacing brownhill. Probably been are best centre back this year and definitely the only one comfortable bringing the ball out from the back which we need with two static midfielders in front of them. Can we play him in the next few games? 

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1 minute ago, Danwal said:

Not sure if brought up elsewhere but letting him go out on loan to me is just as bad if not worse than not replacing brownhill. Probably been are best centre back this year and definitely the only one comfortable bringing the ball out from the back which we need with two static midfielders in front of them. Can we play him in the next few games? 

The midfield is far worse than the defence imo. Nobody can break the lines since Brownhill left and that is why we look so toothless. 

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I somewhat understood this move tbh, we were offered a £12m defender on loan from Leicester, we then didn't want Taylor missing out on half a seasons worth of game time and seemingly preferred he kept playing thus a loan. Seemed the sticking point for people was Blackpool being lower half of league one and all the way up north, but perhaps they were all who were offering at the time.

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18 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

The midfield is far worse than the defence imo. Nobody can break the lines since Brownhill left and that is why we look so toothless. 

I think the midfield is poor because

1) they are badly coached and

2). There is no ball playing CH to bring the ball out and deliver to the MF. Taylor Moore is the closest we have to a ball playing CH since Webster left so I heartily agree with the OP

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LJ’s comment on Moore leaving went something along the lines of ‘I see things in his game that many wont see so I felt it was a good move for him to work on those’ Then he signs Benko Burger sight unseen almost and finds he’s a bit pony and shoves him on the bench. Where he just takes up a seat as he has no chance of playing as he’s crap!

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13 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

 There is no ball playing CH to bring the ball out and deliver to the MF.

Or to carry the ball into midfield and therefore disrupting the opposition’s marking/screening, forcing them out of their shape and making space for others.

It is so much easier to defend against a team that has no capacity to carry the ball into midfield. And as you rightly say, TM was the central defender best suited to this task. Letting him go out on loan was ridiculous.

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I don’t rate him as much of the rest of otib seem to. 

Reminds me of Magnússon. 

Not quite physical enough to play in the division at CB, alright on the ball but switches off and will cost you points per season.

As has already been mentioned, with Williams/Kalas/Baker, Vyner returning & Benkovic joining on loan, guess LJ decided it would be better for Moore to get game time elsewhere. 

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41 minutes ago, extonsred said:

Liked Brownhills a lot but we have hardly broken lines all season! 

Broken lines?

We've struggled to break sweat in far too many games!

As for Taylor Moore, if LJ wants players he can trust then this lad has demonstrated the right attitude in spades, based on the actions he took while at Southend, but sometimes trust is a two way street!

Early in the season he was starting build confidence and show some ability, as well as building a promising partnership with Kalas. Within next to no time, Williams is in a TM is on the sidelines and eventually out on loan again. If the club is concentrating on long term plans, then on the pitch I would have thought TM is just the sort of player we should be building a team around, whereas with LJ it seems he is just a young player that is easier to mess about than some of the older lags.

If LJ stays, then I can easily see TM being sold ( or asking for a move) and while  he might not be the next Webster, he could easily be one that got away.

 

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Taylor Moore is another decision I just can't understand. He's been playing first team football so why send him out to Blackpool?

I am sure playing a lower standard of football will really help with his decision making when next up against top Championship strikers. I am not sure what that does for his confidence.

He is a ball playing centre back. Oh no hang on, let's get £12M rated  ball playing Benkovic on loan, pay his wages and stick him on the bench.

Absolutely baffling decision.

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30 minutes ago, Southport Red said:

I think the midfield is poor because

1) they are badly coached and

2). There is no ball playing CH to bring the ball out and deliver to the MF. Taylor Moore is the closest we have to a ball playing CH since Webster left so I heartily agree with the OP

Ball playing centre backs are such a great weapon in the modern game.

Apparently LJ wanted to play like Liverpool yesterday 😂🤦

Liverpool have Van Dijk or Matip or Gomez. All absolutely brilliant on the ball in that position.

We had Baker and Williams ffs. Williams is tidy on the ball but blimey, how can we play a high line and have centre backs bringing it out when it's those 2.

And other problems too with our side that meant the tactics yesterday were ridiculous. So so bad. Still can't believe what I saw.

I get loaning out Moore if he isn't good enough..But I thought there were a handful of outstanding performances for us this season.

Against Charlton with us having 10 men he was driving us forward from left centre back. Absolutely outstanding that night.

QPR at home he dominated Hugill. He has had a few dodgy games too. But so have all of them. He has mainly been very good.

I still think he is probably the weakest in the air out of our centre backs. Well, except Vyner maybe.  But he has improved a lot in that area and will hopefully keep getting stronger.

I think a back 3 with Moore in would work well at the moment. Not sure if he is allowed to play. If Benkovic needs to be unavailable then might as well cut his loan short.

I really want to see Moore and Kalas at the back next season either in a 2, but maybe better to be in a 3. 

Bring in another ball playing centre back and have either the new player or Moore dribbling into midfield. Having 2 I expect to be a lot better than just 1 doing it.

Maybe we will be back in for Hutchinson who is a free agent, who was playing for Sheffield Wednesday. 

Very good on the ball, being a midfielder as well as centre back. I imagine him and Moore either side of Kalas being a very good back line.

Moore really is class at bringing it out and has courage to try it. I like brave players and he is one. A bit like how Walsh is and Morrell seem to be too.

Let's get some of these positive young players into our side.

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1 hour ago, Danwal said:

Not sure if brought up elsewhere but letting him go out on loan to me is just as bad if not worse than not replacing brownhill. Probably been are best centre back this year and definitely the only one comfortable bringing the ball out from the back which we need with two static midfielders in front of them. Can we play him in the next few games? 

I thought it was an awful decision.

At worst, TM was behind Kalas, Baker and Williams, depending on your view.  So, Benkovic didn’t just have to better than Moore, he had to be better than 2 of the others (assuming back 4) to get game time.  There were no guarantees of this

There really was no guarantee that Benkovic would be better than we had, Celtic on loan is not a good comparison.

So, what was the point?

We now have an expensive loanee filling the bench.

Personally I don’t think Benkovic is that bad, but he’s no better (for sure).  But the logic of Benkovic in / Moore out doesn’t stack up.  One in / one out, doesn’t correlate wage wise either, they will be on hugely different wages.

What does correlate with me in Vyner back / Moore out.  Even then, if that was a reason, it was wrong.

Taylor Moore did ok this season.  Imho he wasn’t as good as many OTIBers believe, but he was still decent enough....AND he was getting better....AND he gave us something different with the starting attacks.

If he wasn’t such a nice guy and good pro, he should had it out with LJ / MA.  They’ve treated him like shit imho.

55 minutes ago, hodge said:

I somewhat understood this move tbh, we were offered a £12m defender on loan from Leicester, we then didn't want Taylor missing out on half a seasons worth of game time and seemingly preferred he kept playing thus a loan. Seemed the sticking point for people was Blackpool being lower half of league one and all the way up north, but perhaps they were all who were offering at the time.

Still a crap decision. 😜

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2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I thought it was an awful decision.

At worst, TM was behind Kalas, Baker and Williams, depending on your view.  So, Benkovic didn’t just have to better than Moore, he had to be better than 2 of the others (assuming back 4) to get game time.  There were no guarantees of this

There really was no guarantee that Benkovic would be better than we had, Celtic on loan is not a good comparison.

So, what was the point?

We now have an expensive loanee filling the bench.

Personally I don’t think Benkovic is that bad, but he’s no better (for sure).  But the logic of Benkovic in / Moore out doesn’t stack up.  One in / one out, doesn’t correlate wage wise either, they will be on hugely different wages.

What does correlate with me in Vyner back / Moore out.  Even then, if that was a reason, it was wrong.

Taylor Moore did ok this season.  Imho he wasn’t as good as many OTIBers believe, but he was still decent enough....AND he was getting better....AND he gave us something different with the starting attacks.

If he wasn’t such a nice guy and good pro, he should had it out with LJ / MA.  They’ve treated him like shit imho.

Still a crap decision. 😜

For me, it's not that Moore has been a great player but that he has shown potential and a willingness to learn and improve. I don't think he is by any stretch a top Championship level centre-back but I think he has the attributes, potential and mentality that mean he could get there. And I'd like us to encourage that. 

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11 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Ball playing centre backs are such a great weapon in the modern game.

Apparently LJ wanted to play like Liverpool yesterday 😂🤦

Liverpool have Van Dijk or Matip or Gomez. All absolutely brilliant on the ball in that position.

We had Baker and Williams ffs. Williams is tidy on the ball but blimey, how can we play a high line and have centre backs bringing it out when it's those 2.

And other problems too with our side that meant the tactics yesterday were ridiculous. So so bad. Still can't believe what I saw.

I get loaning out Moore if he isn't good enough..But I thought there were a handful of outstanding performances for us this season.

Against Charlton with us having 10 men he was driving us forward from left centre back. Absolutely outstanding that night.

QPR at home he dominated Hugill. He has had a few dodgy games too. But so have all of them. He has mainly been very good.

I still think he is probably the weakest in the air out of our centre backs. Well, except Vyner maybe.  But he has improved a lot in that area and will hopefully keep getting stronger.

I think a back 3 with Moore in would work well at the moment. Not sure if he is allowed to play. If Benkovic needs to be unavailable then might as well cut his loan short.

I really want to see Moore and Kalas at the back next season either in a 2, but maybe better to be in a 3. 

Bring in another ball playing centre back and have either the new player or Moore dribbling into midfield. Having 2 I expect to be a lot better than just 1 doing it.

Maybe we will be back in for Hutchinson who is a free agent, who was playing for Sheffield Wednesday. 

Very good on the ball, being a midfielder as well as centre back. I imagine him and Moore either side of Kalas being a very good back line.

Moore really is class at bringing it out and has courage to try it. I like brave players and he is one. A bit like how Walsh is and Morrell seem to be too.

Let's get some of these positive young players into our side.

All really valid points. 👍🏻

Bit of homework for you JonD.....

- what happened the last time he started before Xmas (clue: it was Barnsley away)?

Ultimately, he’s been treated badly.

 

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3 minutes ago, LondonBristolian said:

For me, it's not that Moore has been a great player but that he has shown potential and a willingness to learn and improve. I don't think he is by any stretch a top Championship level centre-back but I think he has the attributes, potential and mentality that mean he could get there. And I'd like us to encourage that. 

Agree, certainly decent enough....not top yet....but all the makings of.  He’s been let down!  I’m actually angry about it.

Some of loan decisions aren’t thought through....

-Hinds in his breakthrough season

-Vyner in 17/18 with Wright and Pisano injured

-Moore

-let alone Walsh or Morrell in January

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59 minutes ago, Med/MadHatter said:

I never understood the loan either, one minute Taylor was being lauded by LJ because he had approached Lee to be made captain, and then a few days later he was gone!

This - and he took a pay cut! So typical of our management to then ship him out on loan.

Loyalty is a 2 way street, but then we have a coach who does not manage (to get anything right)

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19 minutes ago, dave36 said:

This - and he took a pay cut! So typical of our management to then ship him out on loan.

Loyalty is a 2 way street, but then we have a coach who does not manage (to get anything right)

I had forgotten about the paycut! Shameful way to treat the lad who obviously just wants to get on in his career, I just hope he doesn't get too discouraged by this club and opts to leave when he has the chance

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Benkovic can bring the ball out of defence...if in a team set up correctly to do so!! He's shown it elsewhere after all.

I think Walsh can break the lines- next season. Moore of course yes next season can carry, bring the ball out.

Henriksen had or could get some goals from midfield and some assists but Brownhill better- different types of player too but Brownhill better- but Henriksen has a significantly better track record than what he showed with us.

Shame we sold Brownhill really because as well as breaking the lines, I think he could have been a useful link between midfield and attack- say 4-2-3-1, and he's the central of the '3'. Unlike Palmer he could flit between the two positions more readily- bit like Johansen of Fulham 2 seasons back, helping us shift into a 4-5-1/4-3-3 as and when. Brownhill had already equalled his best goal return in a League season- by Cardiff away in November! Anything on that would and could have improved.

I even wonder if say in a 3-5-2 like earlier in the season if Palmer out of favour, he could have played as the '1' behind depending on form, fitness etc, two of Weimann, Wells, Afobe- again able to slot back into 3-5-2 out of possession, the 3-4-1-2 pushing up in possession more readily than Palmer.

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Didn’t help that this £12m rated centre half hasn’t performed particularly well. If you are a club with a philosophy of developing younger players, then shipping them out on loan, whilst signing expensive players who are barely any better, seems odd.

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