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The I still believe in LJ thread!


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41 minutes ago, Bristol_Badger said:

Exactly, performances have been going backwards for the last couple of seasons now.

I see no signs of development on the pitch. We haven’t progressed this year and the target was the playoffs. 
 

Unfortunately SL doesn’t seem to see it that way. He wants to see progression season on season and so far LJ has delivered but it’s looking very unlikely that he’ll do the same this season.

Automatic or the play offs is the aim every season and under LJ (4.5 years) City have failed to achieve  it and surely that’s becoming a concern for SL.

As fans we all pretty much agree that the play served up by LJ is drab, grey and uninspired but that won’t bother SL because it was exactly the same under GJ - the difference being that GJ was winning games and winning is what the game is all about. How the games are won doesn’t matter to most fans and nor does it matter to SL.

Most of us know that SL has a long term project and appointed LJ to see it through and so far has stuck by his man and has even improved LJs contract so unless City are threatened with relegation as Boro are LJ won’t be going anywhere.
 

 

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1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

I believe in ; 

Father Christmas 

The Easter Bunny 

and the Tooth Fairy more than I believe in Lee Johnson right now .

Father Christmas got the sack, what about Johnson!

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I have been on the fence now for a while because I can’t see a suitable alternative that would fit into what the club wants in a manager. But I am sliding down that fence now, not so much the results but the way we play has become stale. 
 

I do struggle to understand when posters use AD and others as an example with sticking with him. Most of these managers knew their core of players and done very little changes and then players clicked together. 
 

The annual “I need players I can trust” statement is possibly causing more unrest in players at the club. As I suspect the 7 players he moved out the first team against Sheff Weds are no doubt thinking “it’s me he don’t trust”. When I thought as a manager you should trust almost everyone because that’s why you hired them. 
 

If we do keep LJ in the job, then I hope that the powers strip some of his players away as when he has little to choose from is when we’ve played better. These clubs in the bag just seem to confuse him as to who to pick. Which in turn confuses the cohesion of the main core. 

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If only he could sort out why our losing streaks last so long he could be successful. It's a trait of him rather than the players as it's happened at previous clubs where he's been manager. More than one of these losing runs means we're unlikely to get into the playoffs, they also seem to happen more often in the second half of a season. On the plus side our winning streaks mean we're never near the relegation scraps which historically we've usually been involved at this level.

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15 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Four years of progress - so maybe we could forgive the odd blip in extraordinary times.

Lee is central to a large project to keep building the club towards sustainability. We have a new stadium and will soon have a new training ground and the land adjacent to AG will be developed.

Huge numbers of developing players have been loaned out to play good level football and will increasingly be available for the first team squad. Patience is a virtue with such development.

Lee is a good frontman for City and speaks and behaves well, has developed a good infrastructure of medical and coaching staff - it ain't that broke and doesn't need fixing by exchanging it all for an unknown future that may not deliver all that people wish.

If you look back through the past 50 years or so, we are in a better position now than we have been for more than 80% of the time and there is no reason to believe that things will not continue to improve in the years ahead.

£millions have been raised in player sales and this has allowed further development of the playing squad.  Much of this is down to Lee and his ability to develop value in players. We currently have a good collection of young players who are almost ready to be in the first team. I would not be too disappointed if we played many of thses next season, even if it meant that we were not quite as competitive. Remember when Alan Dicks did the same thing - it worked out OK in the end.

I like Lee Johnson and accept that although he is not perfect, he is decent and honest.  I hope he stays and that he can put the mob back in their box because mob rule is no way to run a football club that is more likely to flourish with quiet improvement and development, aided by continuity.  All the great clubs have been pretty good at this most of the time and the ones that frequently chop and change managers usually come a cropper.  Time to chill and see what next season brings.

Not a chance LJ will change! We have a huge squad, some of which are capable of great things.

A decent coach/manager with his feet on the ground and his eyes wide open would be able to build a quality team from the options in front of him - with LJ life is far too complicated, instead of picking a first team that can play to each other’s strengths he is selecting mates and favourites, just like we pick lottery numbers - what’s missing is TEAM!
In every walk of life a team will succeed over a bunch of individuals with unmatched skills trying to individually impress an insecure manager!

Something the Lansdowns would do well to remember, that’s the method that helped build their wealth - a strong motivated team! Would Johnson fit in there? No, he is out of his depth in every department and would lose customers just as fast as he loses the confidence of his team!

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If our form over the next 7 games continue and we end around 14th. A short break to the new season, what will the situation be? None or small crowds, wage cap, players leaving, not so many players signing. Our form continues we will be anear the bottom of the league, 10 games gone. Steve might than sack him. To late Steve, if we lose tomorrow, Wednesday. Then sack him on Thursday. 

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1 minute ago, Roadrunner said:

If our form over the next 7 games continue and we end around 14th. A short break to the new season, what will the situation be? None or small crowds, wage cap, players leaving, not so many players signing. Our form continues we will be anear the bottom of the league, 10 games gone. Steve might than sack him. To late Steve, if we lose tomorrow, Wednesday. Then sack him on Thursday. 

I doubt there will be any crowds until Covid is sorted. You have theatres not opening till 2021 at least so can’t see football grounds opening up. 

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29 minutes ago, dave36 said:

Not a chance LJ will change! We have a huge squad, some of which are capable of great things.

A decent coach/manager with his feet on the ground and his eyes wide open would be able to build a quality team from the options in front of him - with LJ life is far too complicated, instead of picking a first team that can play to each other’s strengths he is selecting mates and favourites, just like we pick lottery numbers - what’s missing is TEAM!
In every walk of life a team will succeed over a bunch of individuals with unmatched skills trying to individually impress an insecure manager!

Something the Lansdowns would do well to remember, that’s the method that helped build their wealth - a strong motivated team! Would Johnson fit in there? No, he is out of his depth in every department and would lose customers just as fast as he loses the confidence of his team!

I agree that a team will always work better than a bunch of individuals - however talented.  The trouble is that you have then sought to hang the blame on Lee Johnson for all the problems that are currently visible in the teams that he selects and puts on the pitch to entertain us.  In reality there are always going to be events beyond his control. How could he have known that his best defender and star goalkeeper would be out of form at a critical time of the season?  How could he know that perfectly capable players would then find it difficult to make simple 10 yard passes in matches?  Williams supposedly showed great leadership before the game and then arguably was largely responsible for two goals being conceded.  As soon as the players cross the white line the manager loses a huge amount of control.  Imagine if we would still have had the Brownhill from last Autumn or Webster in defence - I'm sure that lee would not have wished to sell these players. Maybe he had no choice.  

None of us really know what goes on behind the scene. It is always tempting to sack a manager and to change everything. But destroying things is always easier than building something to replace what has been changed. Look at the anarchists in the US - they have destroyed, burned and looted and people have been killed, but they are unable to put anything in its place because the vision was on pulling down what they did not like before realising that they really have nothing to put in its place.  The ramifications of changing Lee would be that there may have to be changes in all the backroom staff and many of the players might have to be changed in order to fit the vision of the new man.  We might get the best coach available, Sean O'D was meant to be such a man - how did that work out?  Lee is more than just a head coach and his influence stretches beyond just the first team.

I suggest that we simply support Lee and every player to the maximum of our ability because everything would be easier for the whole team if we all remain positive.

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7 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

 

I suggest that we simply support Lee and every player to the maximum of our ability because everything would be easier for the whole team if we all remain positive.

I shall be wearing my lucky socks tomorrow and if that doesn't guarantee a Benik Afobe brace I give up.

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4 minutes ago, Abraham Romanovich said:

I shall be wearing my lucky socks tomorrow and if that doesn't guarantee a Benik Afobe brace I give up.

Now we're talking! If we all wear our lucky items of clothing, we can change the current losing run into a glorious charge for promotion!!

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I like Lee and the ideas he is trying to implement in the playing squad, the problem is he either tries to do too much at once, or starts to panic and throws it about hoping something will stick. I reckon if we had of got a result against Sheff Wed, we would have seen the same formation and starting squad (injuries excepted) rather than what seems to be happening now of changing 7/8 players a game until we win one.

You can see this in the changes of formations we have swapping between 4-2-3-1, 4-4-2, 5-3-2, 3-5-2, 3-5-1-1, I could go on for ages. The majority of other clubs have 1/2 formations with players who can play in both. We have players who can only play in one. Palmer for example, can't play in a 4-4-2, NE can't play in a 5-3-2, but they are our most creative players. We need to try and find a balanced formation that can fit both in, but I'm not sure there is.

I don't mind some of the buzzwords, etc as LJ sees himself as a student of the game (nothing wrong with that) and when its going well, no-one cares, but when he says these things and we are playing poorly it does backfire and make him look out of his depth.

I do think he would have benefitted from an experienced footballing DoF that he could bounce ideas off and get some valuable experience. LJ, Holden and Jamie Mac must be one of the youngest coaching teams around which is great for some aspects, but when its going wrong, someone to reign them in and go back to basics.

A lot of our goals seem to come from individual mistakes (I think all 5 post lock down could be attributed to this?) which I don't think you can blame LJ for, but no-one seems to know what position they are playing in, but more importantly what position anyone else is either.

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It’s churlish IMO to not at least acknowledge the massive progress we’ve made under this current set up.
 

But on the other hand, do we want to settle for mediocre? Because for me, that’s what we’ve become. Good runs, bad runs. Mediocre.

That is what SL needs to ask himself.

Of course as a stable championship club now, the gamble of a new manager may well set us back or even reverse that progress, but the increasing sense is that the right new manager is what we need to find the spark for the final push.

Don’t know if this has been said already - but with a quick count, I think LJ has used 21 different players in 2 games. That for me is huge alarm bells.

You’re clutching at straws to find real excuses for that and I’d imagine if this season continues to peter out, the logical progression is to be looking at the management team.

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2 minutes ago, Alessandro said:

It’s churlish IMO to not at least acknowledge the massive progress we’ve made under this current set up.
 

But on the other hand, do we want to settle for mediocre? Because for me, that’s what we’ve become. Good runs, bad runs. Mediocre.

That is what SL needs to ask himself.

Of course as a stable championship club now, the gamble of a new manager may well set us back or even reverse that progress, but the increasing sense is that the right new manager is what we need to find the spark for the final push.

Don’t know if this has been said already - but with a quick count, I think LJ has used 21 different players in 2 games. That for me is huge alarm bells.

You’re clutching at straws to find real excuses for that and I’d imagine if this season continues to peter out, the logical progression is to be looking at the management team.

Agreed. I think you and I have been in lockstep re: opinions on LJ for the most part during his time here. 

I simply think it's time for a change now, I like the guy and love that he cares about the club - I think we're almost ready for a big assault on getting promotion and personally feel things have gone a bit stale. I feel a new manager with a new approach might be able to get more out of our squad.

I do feel if LJ goes though that Ashton shouldn't get off without any critique. If the manager is failing then he is failing. 

I think LJ has done a good job at making us a very competitive club in this league and I'd love for him to get us up, I just can't see it happening and feel it's time for a change.

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4 hours ago, swanker said:

Because some are now suggesting Keith Curle as his replacement!

For the record I mentioned him - but was inviting people to imagine him doing a job for us...an experienced Bristolian manager, international player (very briefly!) - but I'm not proposing that we appoint him. Done well for himself though.

 

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2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

For the record I mentioned him - but was inviting people to imagine him doing a job for us...an experienced Bristolian manager, international player (very briefly!) - but I'm not proposing that we appoint him. Done well for himself though.

 

What’s that got to do with the original post. 

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

I agree that a team will always work better than a bunch of individuals - however talented.  The trouble is that you have then sought to hang the blame on Lee Johnson for all the problems that are currently visible in the teams that he selects and puts on the pitch to entertain us.  In reality there are always going to be events beyond his control. How could he have known that his best defender and star goalkeeper would be out of form at a critical time of the season?  How could he know that perfectly capable players would then find it difficult to make simple 10 yard passes in matches?  Williams supposedly showed great leadership before the game and then arguably was largely responsible for two goals being conceded.  As soon as the players cross the white line the manager loses a huge amount of control.  Imagine if we would still have had the Brownhill from last Autumn or Webster in defence - I'm sure that lee would not have wished to sell these players. Maybe he had no choice.  

None of us really know what goes on behind the scene. It is always tempting to sack a manager and to change everything. But destroying things is always easier than building something to replace what has been changed. Look at the anarchists in the US - they have destroyed, burned and looted and people have been killed, but they are unable to put anything in its place because the vision was on pulling down what they did not like before realising that they really have nothing to put in its place.  The ramifications of changing Lee would be that there may have to be changes in all the backroom staff and many of the players might have to be changed in order to fit the vision of the new man.  We might get the best coach available, Sean O'D was meant to be such a man - how did that work out?  Lee is more than just a head coach and his influence stretches beyond just the first team.

I suggest that we simply support Lee and every player to the maximum of our ability because everything would be easier for the whole team if we all remain positive.

One of the benefits of the Lansdown/Ashton/LJ set up system was, as I understood it, that it allowed for the seamless transfer from one Head Coach to the next...if LJ was poached by a bigger club a new man could step in with minimum disruption. I'd expect that the same would apply if he left for any other reason. I'd imagine that Mark Ashton has an idea of which other folk might be interested if the job came up.

I'm not convinced it would be such a big disruption. Changing managers/coaches is part of the regular business of any football club. 

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2 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

One of the benefits of the Lansdown/Ashton/LJ set up system was, as I understood it, that it allowed for the seamless transfer from one Head Coach to the next...if LJ was poached by a bigger club a new man could step in with minimum disruption. I'd expect that the same would apply if he left for any other reason. I'd imagine that Mark Ashton has an idea of which other folk might be interested if the job came up.

I'm not convinced it would be such a big disruption. Changing managers/coaches is part of the regular business of any football club. 

You could well be right, but until Messrs Ashton and Lansdown decide that there is a need to recruit, I still suggest that we enthusiastically and positively support the current head coach and players - because they are all we have right now.  I think that our project is a little more involved than may be the case with many other football clubs.

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7 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

You could well be right, but until Messrs Ashton and Lansdown decide that there is a need to recruit, I still suggest that we enthusiastically and positively support the current head coach and players - because they are all we have right now.  I think that our project is a little more involved than may be the case with many other football clubs.

Agreed on all counts - and I'll be enthusiastically watching tomorrow night, hopeful as ever!

You may of course be right about the complexity of our set up...which is precisely what I think is wrong about it! The complexity seems to me to be rooted in personal friendships and family connections, which in most businesses have the capacity to make things more difficult than might otherwise be the case when change is needed or bad news needs to be delivered.

 

EDIT: But that said our playing staff will all be well used to a change of coaches, which I believe is needed.

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1 hour ago, Redland said:

 I think LJ has had more than a fair Opportunity but 4 1/2 years later we are back where we started.

 

 

We're not back where we started, on average we're probably about ten places higher than pre-LJ and financially more secure due to the profits from player sales and the new stadium. I remember all those seasons of relegation scraps at this level and we haven't had those recently, we just need to improve another five places to be real promotion contenders.

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12 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

Is it a surprise that people are hesitant?

I posted that what Afobe had done when wide "wasn't that bad" and explained why and was almost instantly met with an aggressive response.

@Bat Fastard has articulated some very good points, of which I mostly agree with.

You have form ???

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8 minutes ago, Red Exile said:

Agreed on all counts - and I'll be enthusiastically watching tomorrow night, hopeful as ever!

You may of course be right about the complexity of our set up...which is precisely what I think is wrong about it! The complexity seems to me to be rooted in personal friendships and family connections, which in most businesses have the capacity to make things more difficult than might otherwise be the case when change is needed or bad news needs to be delivered.

 

EDIT: But that said our playing staff will all be well used to a change of coaches, which I believe is needed.

I get the impression that discussions for out current project may have started many years ago. The Johnson connection has clearly been key in decision making on matters concerning football development.  Our squad has improved and the standards demanded by our fans have also been ramped up in recent years.  I do not think that we are serious promotion candidates this season and we still need some key influential players.  Trading players post Covid may be very difficult and we will need to see how FFP changes impact upon spending decisions. Steve has already committed to huge expenditure in our infrastructure and this may mean that less is available for buying players.  The long term prize is a structure that generates enough income to keep the whole sporting edifice funded for years to come. As I said before, all we should do is provide positive support and keep buying season tickets and pies!!

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27 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

I get the impression that discussions for out current project may have started many years ago. The Johnson connection has clearly been key in decision making on matters concerning football development.  Our squad has improved and the standards demanded by our fans have also been ramped up in recent years.  I do not think that we are serious promotion candidates this season and we still need some key influential players.  Trading players post Covid may be very difficult and we will need to see how FFP changes impact upon spending decisions. Steve has already committed to huge expenditure in our infrastructure and this may mean that less is available for buying players.  The long term prize is a structure that generates enough income to keep the whole sporting edifice funded for years to come. As I said before, all we should do is provide positive support and keep buying season tickets and pies!!

I can't disagree with any of that!

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11 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

My post wasn't intended as a dig Ska.

The initial line was meant to be a genuine question, rather that one with any tension behind it.

I respect your opinions as you generally tend to be quite fair and have some valid reasoning, though as you say, we may not necessarily agree.

I didn't take it as a dig fella. No problem at all from me. 

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I believe in angels

I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows

I believe I can fly

I believe in a thing called Love.

I believe in miracles 

However, I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe in LJ.  :(

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I believe that a couple of seasons ago, LJ gave us one of the best half seasons in my years at the Gate. The performances with Bobby/Pato forced us to play football & we had a real identity as a “pressing team” And were great to watch.

Sadly it’s all been downhill from Wolves defeat & LJ had limited options to choose from that season and there in lies his problem. When given multiple choices, he tinkers or adds to an already bloated squad. The only time in his tenure you could pick the side was that 1/2 season.  You would have thought that he would see the merits of a settled side and set pattern of play but just over complicates it.

Will be grateful For job he’s done but life is about improving and he’s stopped doing that.

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