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The I still believe in LJ thread!


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6 hours ago, AshtonGreat said:

No disrespect but I don't think Lee can use the strange times surrounding the pandemic as an excuse. It appears to me that he has absolutely no idea how to get the best out of his bloated squad, and hasn't done for well over a year. There appears to be no consistency or shape to his tactics and playing style. He comes across like a manager who's lost the plot. 

Would  agree absolutely, was discussing at the weekend with a couple of other diehards, the football we are playing under LJ is as poor as I can remember , of course we have had worse managers and worse teams but not sure I have such a team with so little idea of what there jobs are  , no shape or style , and just knocking it about sideways at the back and then launch it laimlessly up the pitch , the coach is responsible for all the above and it’s down to him , add to that he blames everyone else but himself , calls out players all the time , you can see the moral and confidence draining out of the players , I know from a couple of ex players that he’s a little bully who if you fall out with you’re toast , we can’t go at the moment but frankly there’s a lot of people who would not go with him in charge , I spoke to a lot of lads who are mad reds but have used the phrase several times that this is making them fall out love with this club which even in the darkest times have not heard , Johnson is the main problem but Steve L is losing all credibility in  that LJ looks unsackable and the nepotism at the Gate is stinking the place out 

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5 hours ago, glos old boy said:

Yes quite a few City Players now plying their trade in the prem and a few more could join them with Leeds/Fulham or Cardiff even and thats got us where exactly...oh yes mid table championship

Magnússon though not PL, also plays in a top 7, maybe top 10 European League (Russian).

Played ie from the off in a 3-0 win at the Bernebau in CL- possibly a dead rubber but notable all the same. 

The sales are/were necessary with respect to FFP however. Not all but quite a few. BTW selling is a bit of a fact of life for perennial Championship clubs.

Selling Webster, Pack AND Brownhill in one season feels a bit much. Was willing to accept Webster to reinvest but the latter two- shame.

Think we could have kept one or maybe even both with the signings but would LJ have got the best out of the players even if we had?

Imagine, a Pack-Nagy double pivot, Brownhill more advanced. Massengo young and dynamic prospect who I think we've had to overplay, Rowe bit more experienced and niggly in CM and a retuning Korey. Strong and diverse range of options there. With a successfully loaned Walsh and Morrell to return, yes it could've been good... 

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I don't think getting rid of Lee is the right option right now although some decisions he makes are questionable . I think we have issues within the squad and that's why some of these players appear to be un playable . Also sacking a manager when we're this close to play offs would be suicidal for the club 

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6 hours ago, Yipikiaye said:

I don't think getting rid of Lee is the right option right now although some decisions he makes are questionable . I think we have issues within the squad and that's why some of these players appear to be un playable . Also sacking a manager when we're this close to play offs would be suicidal for the club 

you mean a possible 2 wins and 11 goals from play offs, if Cardiff dont get any points from their next 2 games and others dont win either. Plus we have to beat both Forest and Cardiff 6-0

Reality says; lose tonight and we could more likely be in the bottom half of the table, so not that close to the play offs; so off you go then Lee and take your helpers with you. :sub:

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14 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

That is probably the difference between us. I would always buy my season ticket every year and will do so as long as I can still get to AG. Over the years I have watched them in every division and know that we are currently in reasonable nick even if we don't go up. Sometime in the next few years we will win promotion and I hope to live to see it.

That optimism you display here and clearly enjoy, sir, is good for health and longevity, apparently. I wonder how many years yet it will be before we are one of the group of (49) clubs that have managed at least one season of PL football?

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20 hours ago, JamesBCFC said:

I accept that I have done so in the past Dave. But haven't been posting in an aggressive manner lately.

I would class sending me multiple (unanswered!) DMs over the last few days demanding I enter dialogue with you about why I've implied your posts can come across as 'aggressive' as aggressive in itself.

I clearly have no desire to reply to your DMs so please stop sending me them. 

 

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15 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

I think Lee has had a difficult season with injuries and late departures. That is how I see it from the Dolman - you don't have to agree. I doubt if Lee could do anything that would impress you whatever he did, apart from leave.  Shall we just agree to differ?

Loads of teams, managers, head coaches have 'injuries & late departures'. That is where one earns their salary and they adapt. They use difficult circumstances to galvanise and build an all in this together attitude. Turn a potential negative in to a positive. City under the current management team do not do this when the going gets tough we tend to implode.

The streaky nature which we have become synonymous with is proof of this.  

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9 hours ago, Yipikiaye said:

I don't think getting rid of Lee is the right option right now although some decisions he makes are questionable . I think we have issues within the squad and that's why some of these players appear to be un playable . Also sacking a manager when we're this close to play offs would be suicidal for the club 

If we were a normal club we would not been in such a position debating this. LJ should of gone six months ago.  “Close to play offs” is a joke. We are also close to the relegation play off spots and if we keep loosing the bulk of the remaining games do we celebrate that we didn’t get relegated??

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1 hour ago, Moments of Pleasure said:

That optimism you display here and clearly enjoy, sir, is good for health and longevity, apparently. I wonder how many years yet it will be before we are one of the group of (49) clubs that have managed at least one season of PL football?

The thing is that many people on this forum think that everything is about promotion to the Premier League.  I do not - and I'll tell you why.  In all the years that I have watched City, the games that stick in the memory are those like Mansfield away, when we came back to win an unlikely victory - and that wasn't in any posh league, but it was incredibly entertaining. I can hardly remember the divisions where we played some really exciting games and to me it matters less.  If we won promotion - and it would take a real fluke from where we are, we would have to watch our team getting tonked  week in and week out before escaping back to the Championship and trying again with the benefit of parachute payments.  I suppose there would be enjoyable moments along the way, but I have not got many years left and I like to see us being competitive wherever we play.  Lee has made us that in the Championship and may even take us further as the fabric and team quality build over the years as we unfold the project.

There are many people on here who know a lot about football and see it differently. I am just an old git who has watched very many hundreds of City games and have learned to be patient.  So many clubs gamble everything and sometimes it works but many times it fails and leads to misery for owners and fans alike - who would be a Bolton fan, for example? Oscar Wilde wrote a story about a man who melted down a statue of "the pleasure that abideth forever" and had it recast as a statue of "the pleasure that adbideth for a moment".  We all see it differently and take our enjoyment in accordance with our characters.  Many on here are excitable and I am just an old git and hope to be able to get to matches for a few years yet - whichever division we grace.

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25 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Loads of teams, managers, head coaches have 'injuries & late departures'. That is where one earns their salary and they adapt. They use difficult circumstances to galvanise and build an all in this together attitude. Turn a potential negative in to a positive. City under the current management team do not do this when the going gets tough we tend to implode.

The streaky nature which we have become synonymous with is proof of this.  

Of course you are right but it is not always possible and teams have sometimes been lucky or unlucky with injuries, form and the like.  If the manager is changed every time he has a bad run, then we may have to endure more uncertainty, cost and disruption.  Personally I have faith in Lee. Some on here do not.  It is a game of opinions.

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4 minutes ago, Robert the bruce said:

And here's one we prepared earlier..

Taylor Moore....

There will be a moral to this story.

I think Taylor Moore will be a great player - hopefully in a City shirt for many years to come.  Webster was outstanding at the time he moved, hence the price.  If TM was ever worth that much, I think we would cash in sadly.

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23 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

The thing is that many people on this forum think that everything is about promotion to the Premier League.  I do not - and I'll tell you why.  In all the years that I have watched City, the games that stick in the memory are those like Mansfield away, when we came back to win an unlikely victory - and that wasn't in any posh league, but it was incredibly entertaining. I can hardly remember the divisions where we played some really exciting games and to me it matters less.  If we won promotion - and it would take a real fluke from where we are, we would have to watch our team getting tonked  week in and week out before escaping back to the Championship and trying again with the benefit of parachute payments.  I suppose there would be enjoyable moments along the way, but I have not got many years left and I like to see us being competitive wherever we play.  Lee has made us that in the Championship and may even take us further as the fabric and team quality build over the years as we unfold the project.

There are many people on here who know a lot about football and see it differently. I am just an old git who has watched very many hundreds of City games and have learned to be patient.  So many clubs gamble everything and sometimes it works but many times it fails and leads to misery for owners and fans alike - who would be a Bolton fan, for example? Oscar Wilde wrote a story about a man who melted down a statue of "the pleasure that abideth forever" and had it recast as a statue of "the pleasure that adbideth for a moment".  We all see it differently and take our enjoyment in accordance with our characters.  Many on here are excitable and I am just an old git and hope to be able to get to matches for a few years yet - whichever division we grace.

I’m an old git too. I just want the younger ones on OTIB to experience football in the top flight. You and I are lucky so far to see City in the top flight and it was part of growing up to see bringing clubs like Liverpool etc to Ashton gate and also in those days if you had enough money to watch City play away. I remember some classic away ones I went to years ago, Arsenal, West Brom, Coventry, West ham etc and I still can Remember how I got to those stadiums, where I stood. Or which stand I sat in. We are not going to get promoted this season so dont worry about getting tonked week in and week in if we were in the prem. The worry for me is getting tonked week in and week out in the championship of which is more of a worry and actually an embarrassment that we have an owner that seems to be in a fantasy world like the manager he employed.

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4 minutes ago, City oz said:

I’m an old git too. I just want the younger ones on OTIB to experience football in the top flight. You and I are lucky so far to see City in the top flight and it was part of growing up to see bringing clubs like Liverpool etc to Ashton gate and also in those days if you had enough money to watch City play away. I remember some classic away ones I went to years ago, Arsenal, West Brom, Coventry, West ham etc and I still can Remember how I got to those stadiums, where I stood. Or which stand I sat in. We are not going to get promoted this season so dont worry about getting tonked week in and week in if we were in the prem. The worry for me is getting tonked week in and week out in the championship of which is more of a worry and actually an embarrassment that we have an owner that seems to be in a fantasy world like the manager he employed.

I would also enjoy watching City in the Prem but it would only make the parking more difficult and stop more of us old gits getting to the Gate.  I suppose you would watch more on Sky so you would be OK. If it comes I will love it, if it doesn't come soon, OK I can be patient.  The Cheese scoring at Highbury was a wonderful moment, and I still remember being surprised seeing vendors selling peanuts - funny what sticks in the mind! Hopefully we will achieve greater things as the project unfolds. Steve is a hugely intelligent and experienced businessman and will have an eye for talented employees. He clearly believes in Lee and that is just another reason why I would like to see him stay.

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Wouldn't class myself as an LJ supporter.  I was underwhelmed when he was first announced.  But he is our coach so I have supported him since.

Pros:

He knows the club, supporters and board

He clearly seems passionate about the club 

He seems to be able to improve (the value) of certain players

Seems to be able to coach an ever changing team.  GIven the recent players sales.

I do think other managers would have the hump at loosing so many players 

 

Cons:

Has never managed at a higher level

Appears to be tinker with team formation/selection too much

Tactics/subs seems to be off 

Appears to find it hard to manage big/difficult players.  

Does not seem to have an identity or preferred formation.  At least with Cotts he played a formation.  Stuck to it and seemed like the players were trained in their jobs/positions.

Often seems that LJ wants to emulate what the top teams are doing.

Players dont seem to get a constant run in the team (excpet CoD).  Which is odd given the point above an that Liverpool had essentillay same 8-9 players all season.  So maybe thats something to look into LJ?

Wilbraham made mention of a few such failings in the recent OSIB podcast

Seems to have little faith in some young academy talent?

Some questionable signings.  Especially as he has stated numerous times he has final sign off

He does not appear to learn from mistakes

He has never held his hand up and said he was to blame for the result (whether he was or not, some managers protect their team)

The endless Brent speak .. if you like. 

That dodgy coat

 

Other:

We know SL likes LJ and has been less than ruthless at times

SL is clearly trying to get the club/business to run as a top tier business.  This might be a problem in the background

The club seems to be a selling club at the moment.  Hopefully they will turn into a retaining club and allow the manager a chance to build a promotion winning team?

Given the constraints of the club I do worry that LJ is the best the club can attract right now.  Is a top manager going to want to come knowing that there best players will be sold?  And yes there are managers who can handle that setup, but mostly they are at bigger clubs.

I am starting to come around to the idea that if SL is going to stick with LJ.  They should look at someone else to support him.  Whether a director of football ... or a manager on his last hurrah (yes even Colin).   Who could be a mentor or guide for LJs shortcomings

 

 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, Bat Fastard said:

Of course you are right but it is not always possible and teams have sometimes been lucky or unlucky with injuries, form and the like.  If the manager is changed every time he has a bad run, then we may have to endure more uncertainty, cost and disruption.  Personally I have faith in Lee. Some on here do not.  It is a game of opinions.

Yes it is a game of opinions..... and yours is wrong!

Just joshing!

This isn't just a bad run though is it? Several and consistent bad runs over the years. The only certainty is uncertainty and to a degree that is the nature of football. However, City have missed so many opportunities to take advantage of other teams slipping up. Not just this season but in different parts of other seasons. In addition, Transfer Windows squandered and there's the cost and disruption right there.

I really wished Lee would be up to it but he just isn't. There can be no more excuses or incoherent ramblings. We as a club need to move on the club is flogging a dead horse and it just can't continue.

 

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Well, he seems to cause plenty of in fighting between City fans- so he's good enough for me!

All joking aside, have you not improved on your league position every season under him (I'm not sure if I'm right on that, thought I read it somewhere). If that is the case. maybe you should be careful what you wish for.

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1 hour ago, Bat Fastard said:

The thing is that many people on this forum think that everything is about promotion to the Premier League. 

I disagree with this. I've never seen us in the top flight, not quite old enough. Nearly, but not quite. Would I like to see us there? Of course! Is it all about that? Not a chance. Never has been, never will be. 

I think many would be happy just to see us go out there and look like a team with a game plan, show a bit of ambition on the pitch, play with a bit of freedom, see a bit of consistency in terms of selection, worry less about opposition, play to our own strengths, create some chances and maybe even see us score a few goals. 

I don't think that is asking too much given what LJ has at his disposal. I know he's lost players through injury and sales, but that happens at nearly every single club so I don't buy that argument.

He's had his chance now, in fact, he's had more than one. 

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20 minutes ago, supercidered said:

Yes it is a game of opinions..... and yours is wrong!

Just joshing!

This isn't just a bad run though is it? Several and consistent bad runs over the years. The only certainty is uncertainty and to a degree that is the nature of football. However, City have missed so many opportunities to take advantage of other teams slipping up. Not just this season but in different parts of other seasons. In addition, Transfer Windows squandered and there's the cost and disruption right there.

I really wished Lee would be up to it but he just isn't. There can be no more excuses or incoherent ramblings. We as a club need to move on the club is flogging a dead horse and it just can't continue.

 

Of course it is not ideal and I would prefer to se City win every game.  It is hard to understand why players like Kalas and Bentley seem to be misfiring at this stage of the season. We just cannot know what is going on in the camp and so we tend to get frustrated when things go wrong and we look for clues.  I'm sure that Lee will be able to better sort out his squad at the end of the season and that will be made simpler by us not being involved in play offs.  I don't think we are flogging a dead horse, but it might need to be re-shod and fed some oats. I don't think we need a new saddle yet!

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13 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I disagree with this. I've never seen us in the top flight, not quite old enough. Nearly, but not quite. Would I like to see us there? Of course! Is it all about that? Not a chance. Never has been, never will be. 

I think many would be happy just to see us go out there and look like a team with a game plan, show a bit of ambition on the pitch, play with a bit of freedom, see a bit of consistency in terms of selection, worry less about opposition, play to our own strengths, create some chances and maybe even see us score a few goals. 

I don't think that is asking too much given what LJ has at his disposal. I know he's lost players through injury and sales, but that happens at nearly every single club so I don't buy that argument.

He's had his chance now, in fact, he's had more than one. 

We are nearly of one mind - apart from the fact that we do not know what is going on behind the scene and the difficulties that Lee is facing.  I'm sure he will put it right and I am sure that we will have both good and bad spells in future.  As soon as the good spells outweigh the bad by a factor of 3 to 1 we will stand a chance of promotion.  In the meantime we don't know if a change of manager would make things better or worse. Lee's job has to be judged on the progress of the whole project and not just a few temporary results.

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I’ve been broadly supportive of LJ even when others have been at his neck.

But for me (and this was before the break due to covid) it very much felt he’d met his level - yes; year on year improvement in league position, and many changes to the way we brought in young talent/managed squad building, but for me we need some fresh ideas/approaches to specifically the on-pitch side of things.

He’s had a lot of time, he’s achieved a fair amount, but at this point I watch the games and just think “what could someone else do with this squad?”

I thought exactly that watching a depleted and talent light Wednesday squad manage to overpower us Sunday; I’m not saying Monk is the answer, but what it makes me wonder is what another manager might be able to do with the squad we have now if given the chance.

Have said elsewhere; I’ve zero doubts he’ll be here till the end of the year, and possibly into next unless we get smashed regularly before then. Maybe a very poor run now would do for him, but I think a poor start next year absolutely would.

 

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Also, given the big improvements with the club (new stadium, loans, drones for training etc etc) ... why has all of that only equated to a small improvement in the league each year?   

I think LJ is running out of new shiny things to point at and say we are missing!

 

 

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4 hours ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I would class sending me multiple (unanswered!) DMs over the last few days demanding I enter dialogue with you about why I've implied your posts can come across as 'aggressive' as aggressive in itself.

I clearly have no desire to reply to your DMs so please stop sending me them. 

 

I sent DMs to try and enter a dialogue about why you were trying to make me out as the bad guy when someone responded aggressively to my post.

I asked for the courtesy of a response, and am more than happy for those messages to be shown as proof.

What you have clearly done is made your mind up that I must be the aggressor in any situation, and refuse to consider an alternative. 

The second of the 3 DMs was an addition to what was said in the first, and they were sent as a DM to try and resolve things without taking a thread off track.

The third DM literally said "I see you don't have the courtesy to respond" and those three DMs were sent in the same conversation as 1 previous message which was asking why you were deliberately antagonistic towards me back in January or February.

 

You clearly have no desire to respond as you say, but with your post on here you didn't tell the entire truth either.

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Ok. better performance. But it looks pretty hopeless. Their goalkeeper hardly had a thing to do, despite the increased tempo from us.

We now have to win all our games to have any chance!

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9 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

We are nearly of one mind - apart from the fact that we do not know what is going on behind the scene and the difficulties that Lee is facing.  I'm sure he will put it right and I am sure that we will have both good and bad spells in future.  As soon as the good spells outweigh the bad by a factor of 3 to 1 we will stand a chance of promotion.  In the meantime we don't know if a change of manager would make things better or worse. Lee's job has to be judged on the progress of the whole project and not just a few temporary results.

Temporary result, we’ve been in free fall since January, check the form table, it’s hardly temporary 

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1 hour ago, glen humphries said:

Temporary result, we’ve been in free fall since January, check the form table, it’s hardly temporary 

LLLDDLLL= 8 GAME winless streak, how ever you cut it, certainly not very,very,very good at all really

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1 hour ago, glen humphries said:

Temporary result, we’ve been in free fall since January, check the form table, it’s hardly temporary 

It’s not just about results. If we are not going up it makes little difference if we finish 7th or 14th we have to rebuild in the very short close season in conditions made even more difficult by Covid. Teams with parachute payments will have a massive advantage.  I doubt if Williams will get a new contract!

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