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Respectfulness and Acknowledgment


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4 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s what was said in the press at the time we appointed him.  There is also a BBC article after we beat Man Utd which referred to him having been ‘personally’ recommended to us by Kenny Dalglish, and Johnson himself has referred to Dalglish as his ‘mentor’ (referenced in a different BBC article).  Not ‘proof’, but enough to suggest a high level of credibility.

Recommended to Oldham - not us.  

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20 minutes ago, Red-Robbo said:

 

Benny's weight, SOD's boring voice, Cotts' hair gel + 1980s sales rep fashion sense? Plus Gary J was often accused of "small man syndrome".

TBH it's par for the course in any job where you go before the public - but I do agree it's boring and a bit immature to constantly draw attention to Lee's height. 

I largely agree with the OP on this thread. If Lee left this week (which I think would be a good thing) the overall balance of his impact on this club would be positive. He's left us in a better place than when he found us.

He just hasn't got the tactical smarts to get us the extra mile which both Lansdown and the vast majority of us fans want.

When he goes I'll wish him well and he'll always get applause from me if we see him here again as a guest. 

 

He is out-staying his welcome at the moment.

Fail to get us in the play-offs and I suspect the reception - if he returns next season - will be similar to the one supporters of his last Club gives him. A bit toxic. 

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1 hour ago, Fordy62 said:

You see, “get out of my club” is something I have said, I’ve never got personal however. 
 

You see, for me, respect is a two way street. And LJ pays us no respect at all when he gives interviews like the one he gave after the Wednesday game. He treats us like ******* mugs when he say “I saw signs we could go on a run”. It’s just bull shit. 
 

So in that respect, I don’t see I should offer him any respect at all. He gets what he deserves by acknowledging no responsibility. Ever. 
 

As for ‘great manager’. **** me. What an embarrassment of a phrase. 

I don't necessarily disagree, but what would you rather he said? If that's what he honestly believes.

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1 minute ago, 054123 said:

Lots of ‘in memorial’ type stuff.

What odds LJ is manger on opening day of next season?

I've said it all along, unless we are in the relegation zone, I don't  believe  Steve Lansdown will get rid of him. Hope I'm wrong, but we will have to wait and see

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6 minutes ago, RedRock said:

He is out-staying his welcome at the moment.

Fail to get us in the play-offs and I suspect the reception - if he returns next season - will be similar to the one supporters of his last Club gives him. A bit toxic. 

 

You might be right, but it shouldn't be. Fans should take an overview of what he's achieved in 4 years. Lots of positives.

However he's shown the limits of his ability, so I, like the vast majority, would like us to bring in someone who can get the most of the players and achieve the potential that is here.

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40 minutes ago, glen humphries said:

Got any proof of that?

 

29 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

It’s what was said in the press at the time we appointed him.  There is also a BBC article after we beat Man Utd which referred to him having been ‘personally’ recommended to us by Kenny Dalglish, and Johnson himself has referred to Dalglish as his ‘mentor’ (referenced in a different BBC article).  Not ‘proof’, but enough to suggest a high level of credibility.

BBC and Lee Johnson as sources then.

Zero credibility.

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1 hour ago, Northern Red said:

Why should it? Neil Warnock has never managed us, never will and has publicly tried to drag our club's name through the mud in the past.

Not strictly true now is it. He has stated on more than one occasion how much he respects Bristol City and would love to manage us. Probably never will but then that's our loss but some just can't seem to see that.

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12 minutes ago, Phileas Fogg said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but what would you rather he said? If that's what he honestly believes.

Rather he was up front and said "we were shit and I'm sorry".  Interesting to see that in his interview he blamed the front line but in Beniks interview he blamed the defense.

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3 hours ago, Super said:

In fairness i'm not sure he would have lasted this long at a lot of other clubs.

If he met his targets each season, which so far he presumably has - on what basis would he be removed? I dont think owners look at attractive football as a KPI - not unless fans get so fed up they vote with their feet. 

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17 minutes ago, TonyTonyTony said:

If he met his targets each season, which so far he presumably has - on what basis would he be removed? I dont think owners look at attractive football as a KPI - not unless fans get so fed up they vote with their feet. 

A lot of owners aren't as patient as SL.

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1 hour ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

He was already managing a decent club (Barnsley) and was beginning to be noticed.  I think clubs were on the lookout for young up and coming English managers (not least because of Eddie Howe’s success) and Johnson was well thought of by, for instance, Kenny Dalglish. 

I've never heard of Johnson and Liverpool being talking in the same breath unless it's about the shambles with Ryan Kent or the abysmal display he oversaw at Shrewsbury earlier this season that cost us a £1m FA Cup tie against Liverpool. Genuinely interested to know where this praise from Kenny comes from.

I have, however, heard Johnson big up his own relationship with Brian Marwood at Man City and how Marwood sent him to New York to assess the new franchise, but that's where it ends. 

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1 hour ago, BigTone said:

Not strictly true now is it. He has stated on more than one occasion how much he respects Bristol City and would love to manage us. Probably never will but then that's our loss but some just can't seem to see that.

Yep, 'plus proper football club, great fans'.

Hard to think of any other manager who has been more all round complimentary of our club and made it more clear he would love to have managed City.

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LJ works very hard and most certainly given it his best shot, but found to be wanting. That does not deserve insults I can agree ,as he given his all. I do not regard him as a success because in the last 2 season we stood still (3 points more and a worse GD is essentially the same return, as variables such as the other teams come into play ) and this season he has gone backwards. I do not believe he has advanced the club as you need to look at his spending each season per point gained. He is doing far worse with more money. Forget the player sales, that is income, in real spending, wages and salary he has got close to triple the spending that SC had when promoted (wages/transfer). As none of us pay the bills, we tend to be superficial on these things, if you are Sl you will be thinking.. I have spent 3 times as much but not advanced anywhere. Established side in the Championship yes, but a large part of that is the increased money spent and not due to the team being greater than the sum of its parts. That the GD has deteriorated over the last 3 years is a strong indicator, and when you see Brentford with a net difference of 40 goals to BCFC then you need look no further in your explanation of the issues at hand. The lack of true accountability has been missing, that after  4 years in you can have a fully fit squad, all of your players that you chose and signed available , but then say 7 of them you do not trust after one game, and then change the tactics to a set up we have never used the following week, indicates an alarming lack of clarity and a great deal of confusion. These characteristics are simply not there when dealing with successful managers. So, no insults for LJ, just thank you and goodnight. 

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10 hours ago, hodge said:

Jibes at his height are also uncalled for, don’t recall any other manager we’ve had mocked or insulted for anything to do with them 

Well it bloody well annoys me when people now refer to Roy Hodgson as ‘Woy’ ... he was our manager at the lowest point in our history ... and even if he wasn’t, the lack of respect and the willingness to mock is just abhorrent ... the way of the world now I guess ...

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6 hours ago, TonyTonyTony said:

If he met his targets each season, which so far he presumably has - on what basis would he be removed? I dont think owners look at attractive football as a KPI - not unless fans get so fed up they vote with their feet. 

they have who was at the last game?

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12 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

Lee Johnson. Is doing everything in his power to destroy this club and merits all the insults and vitriol thrown at him.

 

Austin Powers Doctor Evil GIF by Leroy Patterson

Yes makes you laugh what has he achieved bar upsetting 52 players and near on 22000 home fans each week.

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The 'established in the Championship' worries me. The league is such that just about any club is one bad season away from League 1 or even just one catastrophic run away. Just because a team has finished in the top 10 for 3 or 4 seasons doesn't mean that they won't be involved in a relegation scrap in the next one.

To be honest, if someone offered me the position we're in now, next season, with LJ or not, I'd probably take it.  Safe from relegation with 8 or 9 games to go is no disaster. The trouble is, if LJ stays on and we don't improve in the next 7 games, I see a real danger of a very bad season, next season, certainly if we carry over the downwards momentum since Xmas. So on balance I think a change, just as soon as the Play-Offs are mathematically impossible, would be justified and probably in the best interests of all parties and all could sign off with dignity intact. Otherwise it could get very poisonous and the current level of abuse woud be a walk in the park. 

 

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7 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

The 'established in the Championship' worries me. The league is such that just about any club is one bad season away from League 1 or even just one catastrophic run away. Just because a team has finished in the top 10 for 3 or 4 seasons doesn't mean that they won't be involved in a relegation scrap in the next one.

To be honest, if someone offered me the position we're in now, next season, with LJ or not, I'd probably take it.  Safe from relegation with 8 or 9 games to go is no disaster. The trouble is, if LJ stays on and we don't improve in the next 7 games, I see a real danger of a very bad season, next season, certainly if we carry over the downwards momentum since Xmas. So on balance I think a change, just as soon as the Play-Offs are mathematically impossible, would be justified and probably in the best interests of all parties and all could sign off with dignity intact. Otherwise it could get very poisonous and the current level of abuse woud be a walk in the park. 

 

The second part of this was the worrying thing for me.

Forget the play-offs, despite having a full squad of Lee’s own players, our lack idea, creativity, shape, belief and determination on Sunday had me worried about safety next season.

Thats a first.

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7 hours ago, fgrsimon said:

The 'established in the Championship' worries me. The league is such that just about any club is one bad season away from League 1 or even just one catastrophic run away. Just because a team has finished in the top 10 for 3 or 4 seasons doesn't mean that they won't be involved in a relegation scrap in the next one.

To be honest, if someone offered me the position we're in now, next season, with LJ or not, I'd probably take it.  Safe from relegation with 8 or 9 games to go is no disaster. The trouble is, if LJ stays on and we don't improve in the next 7 games, I see a real danger of a very bad season, next season, certainly if we carry over the downwards momentum since Xmas. So on balance I think a change, just as soon as the Play-Offs are mathematically impossible, would be justified and probably in the best interests of all parties and all could sign off with dignity intact. Otherwise it could get very poisonous and the current level of abuse would be a walk in the park. 

 

You have hit the nail on the head so sweetly. There isn't any club in the Championship that can be complacent enough to believe that they are "established" enough to be immune from relegation.

If LJ is still here at the start of the 2020-21 season, and we are performing as ineptly as the last six or seven games, we could be doomed by Christmas!

If SL cannot see this as a real possibility, he is not the one who should be in overall control of our club.

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49 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

You have hit the nail on the head so sweetly. There isn't any club in the Championship that can be complacent enough to believe that they are "established" enough to be immune from relegation.

If LJ is still here at the start of the 2020-21 season, and we are performing as ineptly as the last six or seven games, we could be doomed by Christmas!

If SL cannot see this as a real possibility, he is not the one who should be in overall control of our club.

I don't think people mean immune from relegation in isolation. What they mean is having the infrastructure, depth of squad and attendances to justify our placing. Consistent league finishes with minimal relegation battle is just one part of that. 

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On 30/06/2020 at 11:57, grifty said:

I think that's a bit harsh, everyone can see he is trying his best (whether that's good enough is another question) and he wants to improve and sort the issue out.

If you are at work and struggle with something, do you turn round to your bosses and say, I can't get my head round this I quit? No, you reach out for help from your bosses and try to get it right. Thats where I think he's missing out. He's trying to do it all himself or he's asked for help but has been told no (more likely the first one).

I don't like these analogies. Different jobs have different requirements, I mean I would not expect a brain surgeon to turn around just as I'm going under to say "I'm struggling with work but it's ok, I'll ask my boss for some help". 

 

LJ is in a cut throat business and isn't doing his job well enough and hasn't been for a while now. Nothing suggests next session will be any better. I also don't understand having someone like Benkovic on loan and not using him when we're letting in basic defensive goals from the air. 

Simply put LJ has the tools available to be in the top 6 now and isn't managing that and actually looks likely to finish lower than last season. 

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53 minutes ago, Spike said:

I don't like these analogies. Different jobs have different requirements, I mean I would not expect a brain surgeon to turn around just as I'm going under to say "I'm struggling with work but it's ok, I'll ask my boss for some help". 

 

LJ is in a cut throat business and isn't doing his job well enough and hasn't been for a while now. Nothing suggests next session will be any better. I also don't understand having someone like Benkovic on loan and not using him when we're letting in basic defensive goals from the air. 

Simply put LJ has the tools available to be in the top 6 now and isn't managing that and actually looks likely to finish lower than last season. 

No, but a brain surgeon also doesn't walk out of the surgery half way through saying I didn't do as well as I thought I would.

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On 30/06/2020 at 10:28, Badger08 said:

 

Two words I think this forum lacks sometimes.  Its so sad reading grown men calling LJ  a "clown" and phrases like "get out of my club".  
Can we as a fan base just not acknowledge that the current setup of LJ, MA and JL have progressed this club, and that the journey has simply run its course?  Lets be thankful for the work that Lee has done in making us a stable, and lets not forget, RESPECTED, Championship club.  Things that we haven't be able to say before LJ took the reins. 

Everyone has a level, and to be honest I think Lee at the moment has hit that ceiling, for whatever reason.   He is a great manager and you can tell he loves this club dearly, so is it possible, for once, that we can be a little bit more respectful and actually acknowledge what he has done? 

Why does everything have to result in insults and vitriol? 

I do agree that potentially a change has to be made, unless their is a vast change / miracle from tomorrow.  But lets not be so blinkered by recent disappointment to completely tarnish the overall picture of what Lee and his team have achieved with this football club.  I'd like to think we were better than that. 

 

 

You have called him “a great manager” that has to go down as the most inane statement ever on otib.

Then you go on about what he’s achieved at this club.

Can you advise me what these great achievements are please. Because the only achievement I can think of is a record run of defeats.

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1 minute ago, Portland Bill said:

You have called him “a great manager” that has to go down as the most inane statement ever on otib.

Then you go on about what he’s achieved at this club.

Can you advise me what these great achievements are please. Because the only achievement I can think of is a record run of defeats.

I don't have to explain myself to you. 

But I appreciate your opinion. 

But I think he's done some great things for this club.

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4 hours ago, grifty said:

No, but a brain surgeon also doesn't walk out of the surgery half way through saying I didn't do as well as I thought I would.

Which just further clarifies that the job comparison analogies do not work. LJ is a football manager who has been tasked with seeing us improve until we make it to the Premier League or at the very least of improving our standing of which he is not. 

He has the players now, he's had 4 years to build the squad and it is now his squad. What more is he going to do in the next few years that he hasn't already had the time to do by now? 

We now have Wells, Diedhiou and Afobe along with Weinmann, our attacking options have never been so strong. We have Kalas, Baker, Williams and Benkovic as our CB options and still we're shipping goals. Then we have an £8m midfielder, a veteren at this club in Smith, Nagy etc in the middle, we have an outstanding left wing of Dasilva and Eliasson and STILL LJ can't figure out who to play and in what formation! He picked these players!!

At this point any non Bristol City fan who looked at our squad, saw what we've developed in our club in the stadium and training facilit, they'd have to be thinking "how on earth are they falling out of the top half of the table!?"

I honestly can't understand this thought process that LJ will miraculously just become a competent tactician by the start of next season and suddenly change years of chopping and changing all of the time. 

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