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Palmer vs Johnson ?


Ollie__tucs

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13 minutes ago, Super said:

I would play him. 2 games back and we have been shocking in both. LJ is stubborn though.

Yh, it must be that Johnson and palmer have fallen out. some people I've spoke to have said that he doesn't fit championship football and is a prem player

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13 minutes ago, Ollie__tucs said:

Not sure why Johnson is not playing him, Johnson said that we need a Barry bannan like player, in my opinion we have that in palmer. let me know your guys thoughts?

We all had high expectations of Kasey Palmer I know, but when he has been given a chance, he doesn't seem to have done particularly well. He may be able to make chances for Afobe, but he leaves dangerous holes behind him.  If Lee is going to pick him, he needs to cover the gaps he leaves. 

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2 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all had high expectations of Kasey Palmer I know, but when he has been given a chance, he doesn't seem to have done particularly well. He may be able to make chances for Afobe, but he leaves dangerous holes behind him.  If Lee is going to pick him, he needs to cover the gaps he leaves. 

Yh, i would like to see Johnson pick him with afobe, with smith and Nagy. then the fans cant complain 

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30 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all had high expectations of Kasey Palmer I know, but when he has been given a chance, he doesn't seem to have done particularly well. He may be able to make chances for Afobe, but he leaves dangerous holes behind him.  If Lee is going to pick him, he needs to cover the gaps he leaves. 

Or devise a system that covers this deficiency

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50 minutes ago, Ollie__tucs said:

Not sure why Johnson is not playing him, Johnson said that we need a Barry bannan like player, in my opinion we have that in palmer. let me know your guys thoughts?

Palmer and Bannan are different types of players. Cannot play Palmer in a midfield two. Palmer isn’t a ‘give and go’ type player. 

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I find it hard to believe that Johnson ever wanted Palmer.  He hardly set the world on fire while on loan here, and displayed all the deficiencies we’ve seen this season.  As someone else says, the gaps he leaves behind him make him a liability.  Never understood why we signed him in the first place.

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54 minutes ago, Ollie__tucs said:

Not sure why Johnson is not playing him, Johnson said that we need a Barry bannan like player, in my opinion we have that in palmer. let me know your guys thoughts?

Whilst there is a fair argument to question why Palmer isn’t playing more, I think it’s completely false to compare him with Bannan. 
Two completely different players. 

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Palmer needs game time and a coach who believes in him . 
 

He is very talented but not the finished article. LJ accepts COD’s mistakes but Palmer only needs to fart out of tune to be dropped again.

It is criminal how some of our most talented players are underused and abandoned . 
 

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36 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all had high expectations of Kasey Palmer I know, but when he has been given a chance, he doesn't seem to have done particularly well. He may be able to make chances for Afobe, but he leaves dangerous holes behind him.  If Lee is going to pick him, he needs to cover the gaps he leaves. 

I don't think he's had a fair crack IMO. Ask any player and they'll tell you they ideally need several games on the spin to get fully match fit/sharp. Every time KP has made a mistake, he seems to have lost his place immediately and come in for criticism where as other players can seemingly be shocking for weeks, yet still get selected and escape criticism. KP WILL make mistakes because he tries to make things happen. He tries to beat people, he tries to pass it forward, he's happy to receive it under pressure. That's his game. 

Often, when he has been brought into the fold, as a starter or a sub, it's been when we have been desperate or a cup game against lower league opposition. What does that do to a players mentality? And why on earth would he want to put in a shift for LJ?

I think he's done here whilst LJ is in charge, which is a shame because he started the season so well and obviously has the talent.

 

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Palmer hasn't really been given an extended run in the team. He has been disappointing at times when picked, it must be said. But he has shown flashes of inspiration, too.

Far more so than players like COD and Pato, in my book. But they keep getting chance after chance in the team.

 

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4 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I don't think he's had a fair crack IMO. Ask any player and they'll tell you they ideally need several games on the spin to get fully match fit/sharp. Every time KP has made a mistake, he seems to have lost his place immediately and come in for criticism where as other players can seemingly be shocking for weeks, yet still get selected and escape criticism. KP WILL make mistakes because he tries to make things happen. He tries to beat people, he tries to pass it forward, he's happy to receive it under pressure. That's his game. 

Often, when he has been brought into the fold, as a starter or a sub, it's been when we have been desperate or a cup game against lower league opposition. What does that do to a players mentality? And why on earth would he want to put in a shift for LJ?

I think he's done here whilst LJ is in charge, which is a shame because he started the season so well and obviously has the talent.

 

He also has , had ? , huge motivation. He wanted to settle down and make a career at one club instead of always being out on loan . 
 

I feel sorry for the guy.

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5 minutes ago, internetjef said:

What I have seen from him suggests he is a significant defensive liability.

so it’s whether he is good enough on the ball to build a side around him that can cover his shortfalls when we don’t have him 

I don't think you need to build a side around him, but he needs to play, or be played, in the right areas. It's really not a difficult thing to sort out, you'd think a coach with LJs obvious talent would be able to get the best out of him. I'd play him in front of 2 central/defensive midfielders personally.

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36 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

I find it hard to believe that Johnson ever wanted Palmer.  He hardly set the world on fire while on loan here, and displayed all the deficiencies we’ve seen this season.  As someone else says, the gaps he leaves behind him make him a liability.  Never understood why we signed him in the first place.

Well why do we have him then?  I thought LJ had final sign off on all new players?    Plus we had him on loan before paying up!   

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Palmer started off on fire. Then Afobe got injured. 

Since then, he’s had ten minutes here and ten minutes there while COD gets 90 minutes despite being missing all game, every game. Everyone and their dog could see that Sunday’s game was crying out for KP45, but LJ brought on Zak Vyner. 

Its clear to me that KP is LJ’s scapegoat and in the unlikely event that he starts against Forest tonight, it really is LJ’s last roll of the dice. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, wendyredredrobin said:

We all had high expectations of Kasey Palmer I know, but when he has been given a chance, he doesn't seem to have done particularly well. He may be able to make chances for Afobe, but he leaves dangerous holes behind him.  If Lee is going to pick him, he needs to cover the gaps he leaves. 

Yes that’s all true, but it doesn’t fit the narrative at the moment, does it?

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I suppose you put Palmer in the 'luxury player' bracket, although you arguably get more work rate from him than you would with Tomlin, JET and Jacki.

Johnson prefers the insurance that a Dirk Kuyt type player gives him (ie Weimann).

 

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1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Palmer and Bannan are different types of players. Cannot play Palmer in a midfield two. Palmer isn’t a ‘give and go’ type player. 

I wouldn't necessarily class Bannan as best in a midfield 2 as in he won't show his best in it, he played in a 3 on Sunday after all. Palmer and Bannan are definitely different types of player though, and Bannan I'd better suited to a 2 than Palmer who is very much unsuited! 

I'd consider Palmer as the '1 in a 4-3-1-2.

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52 minutes ago, Kibs said:

I don't think you need to build a side around him, but he needs to play, or be played, in the right areas. It's really not a difficult thing to sort out, you'd think a coach with LJs obvious talent would be able to get the best out of him. I'd play him in front of 2 central/defensive midfielders personally.

I'd play him in front of 3 CMs, because why 

 

1 hour ago, Ollie__tucs said:

Yh, i would like to see Johnson pick him with afobe, with smith and Nagy. then the fans cant complain 

If I'm an oppositon manager I'd be wary but also sense an opportunity to overload Smith-Nagy even as a defensive 2.

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1 hour ago, Major Isewater said:

Palmer needs game time and a coach who believes in him . 
 

He is very talented but not the finished article. LJ accepts COD’s mistakes but Palmer only needs to fart out of tune to be dropped again.

It is criminal how some of our most talented players are underused and abandoned . 
 

I absolutely couldn't agree more. We've seen this time and time again with Johnson. This is partly why I think a lot of fans want him out and someone new in, someone who can utilise and make the best out of our squad. Players like palmer can absolutely win us games if used correctly. He's a great attacker, not a great defender. Play a system where he can play, with confidence. But he has no confidence due to whatever has happened between him and LJ. 

Extremely frustrating as a fan to see. 

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1 hour ago, And Its Smith said:

Palmer and Bannan are different types of players. Cannot play Palmer in a midfield two. Palmer isn’t a ‘give and go’ type player. 

And I’ve always argued that if you play Bannan in a two it wouldn’t get the best out of him, hence why I’ve always been luke warm in any discussion about his coming here.

1 hour ago, Harry said:

Whilst there is a fair argument to question why Palmer isn’t playing more, I think it’s completely false to compare him with Bannan. 
Two completely different players. 

Yep, completely different players.

24 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I wouldn't necessarily class Bannan as best in a midfield 2 as in he won't show his best in it, he played in a 3 on Sunday after all. Palmer and Bannan are definitely different types of player though, and Bannan I'd better suited to a 2 than Palmer who is very much unsuited! 

I'd consider Palmer as the '1 in a 4-3-1-2.

Yep, in a three on Sunday with Luongo and K.Lee.  They’ve played a two a lot this season and we’re bottom half, suggesting he can’t run a game every week in that set up.

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19 minutes ago, Davefevs said:
2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

 

And I’ve always argued that if you play Bannan in a two it wouldn’t get the best out of him, hence why I’ve always been luke warm in any discussion about his coming here.

But to be fair Dave we only play 2 CMs on Wednesdays, leap years and when Jupiter aligns with Mars. On Saturdays, odd dates and religious festivals we play a back 5 and can have 3 in the middle. 

I think that's LJs system?

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2 hours ago, And Its Smith said:

Palmer and Bannan are different types of players. Cannot play Palmer in a midfield two. Palmer isn’t a ‘give and go’ type player. 

Agreed.

Now if we had Bannan  I wonder where he'd be played (assuming he'd make the squad that is)

Seems so consistent.

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1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

And I’ve always argued that if you play Bannan in a two it wouldn’t get the best out of him, hence why I’ve always been luke warm in any discussion about his coming here.

Yep, completely different players.

Yep, in a three on Sunday with Luongo and K.Lee.  They’ve played a two a lot this season and we’re bottom half, suggesting he can’t run a game every week in that set up.

I've always thought optimum Bannan would be in the three personally, in a 2- agree with you, my take on it is that he doesn't have the protection/that little bit of extra time and space he'd need. Lee is or can be quite physical for one, unsure about Luongo.

Palmer and Bannan are such different players though, as you say.

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