Nottingham Forest v Bristol City Match Day 40

[Renaissance Williams]

Speaking as a Happy Clapper, I am now officially clapped out......

[YGBjammy]

Some positives for sure, would have been an interesting 2nd half if Williams wasn't an absolute moron. Watching the replay, I counted 3 red card offences in about 10 seconds? Maybe he just wanted some time off!

[1960maaan]

21 minutes ago, BigTone said:

But it's still there I think

Some slight adjustment needed I think.

[Davefevs]

27 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

and yet tonight was his best of the 3, speaks volumes.

But still one of our worst two players....in a much better team performance.

[mozo]

52 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

 

Fevs you criticised O'Dowda quite rightly, but then defended Andreas Weimaraner (intentional typo!).

Both players are hideously short of end product. I know Weimann has bagged a few this season, but he wastes so many attacking opportunities that I can't even admire his work rate any more. 

[BCFC Grim]

Just now, mozo said:

Fevs you criticised O'Dowda quite rightly, but then defended Andreas Weimaraner (intentional typo!).

Both players are hideously short of end product. I know Weimann has bagged a few this season, but he wastes so many attacking opportunities that I can't even admire his work rate any more. 

Unfortunately every team he puts out is full of runners rather than someone who can make something happen.

[1960maaan]

24 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

But still one of our worst two players....in a much better team performance.

Apart from early on, and his usual workrate, Weimann was poor, COD actually took his man on a few times, didn't beat him enough or get enough crosses in and drifted out of the game. But I would add Wells, may have ran around, but didn't affect enough for me, he's not looked right in the 3 games. 

That said I was impressed with Nagy & Smith. While I'm at it, and I know I'm a little biased, those 2/3 balls by Palmer, I know they were out wide, but shows what he can do. Not up to speed, the "shot" showed that, but his vision is brilliant. If we could just get him fitted firing and in the right formation.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, mozo said:

Fevs you criticised O'Dowda quite rightly, but then defended Andreas Weimaraner (intentional typo!).

Both players are hideously short of end product. I know Weimann has bagged a few this season, but he wastes so many attacking opportunities that I can't even admire his work rate any more. 

I only defended a Weimann in terms of him not being poor every game.

Weimann was poor tonight, that’s what I stated. 5/10 at best tonight, O’Dowda the same.

I wish we played him straight down the middle or just off a striker, but not wide.  He is nowhere near as effective wide.

Ratings: (6 is a player earning his corn)

Maenpaa 6 / Bentley 6

Vyner 7 (sneaks a 7, he was better than 6)

Dasilva 8

Baker 7

Williams 0 (6 until red card)

Weimann 5

O’Dowda 5

Smith 7

Nagy 7

Afobe 6.5

Wells 5.5

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, 1960maaan said:

Apart from early on, and his usual workrate, Weimann was poor, COD actually took his man on a few times, didn't beat him enough or get enough crosses in and drifted out of the game. But I would add Wells, may have ran around, but didn't affect enough for me, he's not looked right in the 3 games. 

That said I was impressed with Nagy & Smith. While I'm at it, and I know I'm a little biased, those 2/3 balls by Palmer, I know they were out wide, but shows what he can do. Not up to speed, the "shot" showed that, but his vision is brilliant. If we could just get him fitted firing and in the right formation.

Yep, Wells a tad better than Weimann and O’Dowda.  I thought his movement complimented Afobe, they closed down well as a pair.  It just isn’t working for him at the mo’.  Looks a shadow of the player I’ve seen countless times over the years.

[1960maaan]

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, Wells a tad better than Weimann and O’Dowda.  I thought his movement complimented Afobe, they closed down well as a pair.  It just isn’t working for him at the mo’.  Looks a shadow of the player I’ve seen countless times over the years.

I hope it's nothing to do with the move, he's just not looked confident. The instinct is still there, the goals show that, but he's nowhere near where he can be. Few more games with Afobe might help. Looks more natural fit than Wells & Fam.

[wendyredredrobin]

9 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, Wells a tad better than Weimann and O’Dowda.  I thought his movement complimented Afobe, they closed down well as a pair.  It just isn’t working for him at the mo’.  Looks a shadow of the player I’ve seen countless times over the years.

Wells seemed to cause more problems playing against us than he has playing for us, it seems.

TBH, he was happy at QPR and I don't think he really wanted to come here But QPR were creating opportunities for him whereas we are not.

Edited July 1, 2020 by wendyredredrobin

[The Coach]

Just now, wendyredredrobin said:

Wells seemed to cause more problems playing against us than he has playing for us, it seems.

We could have Aguero up front and it would be the same

[Davefevs]

2 minutes ago, wendyredredrobin said:

Wells seemed to cause more problems playing against us than he has playing for us, it seems.

I remember the days when we’d sign players purely on how they played against us.  I thought those days were over!

[Harry]

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

 

Wowsers. That’s a great COD passing stat there Dave. It’s always reassuring to think you’ve seen something terrible and then for it to be fully backed up by the stats, ha ha. 

It’s a poor stat, particularly as it looked as though O’Dearda had a bit of a free reign tonight. Whilst he started on the left, he popped up centrally (in attack), on the right and centrally in midfield too. 
With such free reign, you’d expect him to have got on the ball more than he did. Just shows his lack of game intelligence too - if you’re free to roam, you’re generally gonna be looking for the ball all over the pitch. 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Harry

[wendyredredrobin]

2 minutes ago, Redpool said:

We could have Aguero up front and it would be the same

Very true.

[Davefevs]

16 minutes ago, Harry said:

Wowsers. That’s a great COD passing stat there Dave. It’s always reassuring to think you’ve seen something terrible and then for it to be fully backed up by the stats, ha ha. 

It’s a poor stat, particularly as it looked as though O’Dearda had a bit of a free reign tonight. Whilst he started on the left, he popped up centrally (in attack), on the right and centrally in midfield too. 
With such free reign, you’d expect him to have got on the ball more than he did. Just shows his lack of game intelligence too - if you’re free to roam, you’re generally gonna be looking for the ball all over the pitch. 

 

and then just as a comparison, some of Jay’s charts:

[22A]

Hmm, Forest's thread is only 31 pages long. They think LJ is on his way out though.

http://www.forestforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=48818&page=31

[Lrrr]

Having been critical pre-match about Baker and his passing have to say I was impressed watching his display today, was willing to carry the ball, make progressive forward passes, overlap/underlap runs and stayed calm on the ball.

[The Constant Rabbit]

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

Yep, Wells a tad better than Weimann and O’Dowda.  I thought his movement complimented Afobe, they closed down well as a pair.  It just isn’t working for him at the mo’.  Looks a shadow of the player I’ve seen countless times over the years.

You think Wells wants to be here Dave?

His body language is awful at times.

If LJ is still here next season, Wells won't be - by choice I suspect.

I doubt if he will be the only one looking to move.

Palmer

Kalas

Moore

Fammy

Elliasson

Nagy

All will have suitors - all have looked unhappy or been (especially Moore) poorly treated.

I can see an exodus tbh.

 

I think most are playing for next year, not the current manager.

When pro's like Hendricksen just quit - and you don't be a 57 times international captain by fluke - then something is clearly wrong with LJ's man management of experienced players.

I guess it's hard to instruct players when you have never won anything of note as player or manager.

[Mr Popodopolous]

36 minutes ago, SX227 said:

You think Wells wants to be here Dave?

His body language is awful at times.

If LJ is still here next season, Wells won't be - by choice I suspect.

I doubt if he will be the only one looking to move.

Palmer

Kalas

Moore

Fammy

Elliasson

Nagy

All will have suitors - all have looked unhappy or been (especially Moore) poorly treated.

I can see an exodus tbh.

 

I think most are playing for next year, not the current manager.

When pro's like Hendricksen just quit - and you don't be a 57 times international captain by fluke - then something is clearly wrong with LJ's man management of experienced players.

I guess it's hard to instruct players when you have never won anything of note as player or manager.

I don't know if I fully agree on the last line- don't know if it is a pre-requisite, Frank at Brentford after all seems to be doing very well there and who had heard of him, but your post aside I broadly agree- though still think it's not too late to prevent that exodus.

The list of players, experienced and I'd add players who have played at a higher level than LJ did from here and abroad who have tailed off, fallen out, whatever is long- so long! More than that they've simply regressed before our eyes even starting quite well. Man-management, throwing under the bus- or even something seemingly more correctable but not in his case as setting up in a way that they're not used to, not comfortable with.

I think the level of this side is a) A significantly stronger style of play, identity and b) Aiming at 5th/6th. Competing with Nottingham Forest, Preston, Cardiff etc- is that really beyond us? I think the top 3 are better overall and Fulham have a very deep squad helped by parachute payments but we should be true playoff contenders IMO.

              Bentley

Hunt Moore Kalas DaSillva

   Nagy Smith Massengo

   Weimann Afobe Wells

The depth too...

           Maenpaa

Pereira Baker Kalas DaSilva

    Nagy Smith Massengo

             Palmer

        Wells Afobe

Or if you like, Team 1- Weimann as a wider forward/wider right midfielder pushed high, Afobe or Wells central and Eliasson on the left.

Paterson chips in from time to time- another useful option to have.

Has wasted Benkovic and Henriksen especially- the first a ballplaying CB from a notable nation like Croatia, the 2nd as you describe...Wells has scored some goals but not hit the heights he should. Benkovic should have been a bit of a ball carrying CB with Moore loaned out- a tad harsh loan out for me.

And that's just THIS season.

We had Magnússon- no Iceland are not one of the top sides in the world but are in a bit of a golden generation. He shackled Perisic in a WCQF- showed some potential in periods, wonder if he could've maybe developed into part of a back 3. Moore-Kalas-Magnússon, two ball carriers in there, all reasonable technically, all young enough to have the pace to squeeze up (unlike Williams might I add).

Hegeler, O'Neil- Both somewhat injury hit yet both looked rather good early on as I recall. Playing them in a 2 did them- and us- few favours I think.

Yep, top 6 contenders with a style of play to proud of- or should be!

PS- Maenpaa for Bentley for me for the foreseeable, thought so a little while ago and found it harsh that he was dropped after performing well in the 2 games before lockdown.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Mr Popodopolous

[pillred]

5 hours ago, oldstandrobin said:

Settled in my chair to watch this match on Robins TV. Curry, beer and then first half of half decent play from us. Second half................well...................nearly finished a half bottle of scotch now. Weimann... stupid to let that free kick happen. Williams.......enough said. Korey, frustration at it's highest. SL..............IT'S TIME TO ACT NOW before you lose the faith of us fans.

I think it's a bit late to be worrying about the fans losing faith that ship has sailed. I think we are onto damage limitation, I was a season ticket holder for nearly 30 years and believe me when I say if I am beginning to lose interest the club had better beware. I'm sure there are a lot more like me out there and once they like me grow out of the habit of attending regularly it's hard to win them back, I still go down but just half as often and that is almost entirely because of the way they are playing at home and I think we all know who is responsible for that. 

[The Constant Rabbit]

19 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

I don't know if I fully agree on the last line- don't know if it is a pre-requisite, Frank at Brentford after all seems to be doing very well there and who had heard of him, but your post aside I broadly agree- though still think it's not too late to prevent that exodus.

The list of players, experienced and I'd add players who have played at a higher level than LJ did from here and abroard who have tailed off, fallen out, whatever is long- so long! More than that they've simply regressed before our eyes even starting quite well. Man-managemebnt, throwing under the bus- or even something seemingly more correctable but not in his case as setting up in a way that they're not used to, not comfortable with.

I think the level of this side is a) A signifricantly stronger style of play, identitry and b) Aiming at 5th/6th. Competing with Nottingham Forest, Preston, Cardiff etc- is that really beyond us? I think the top 3 are better overall and Fulham have a very deep squad helped by parachute payments but we should be true playoff contenders IMO.

              Bentley

Hunt Moore Kalas DaSillva

   Nagy Smith Massengo

   Weimann Afobe Wells

The depth too...

           Maenpaa

Pereira Baker Kalas DaSilva

    Nagy Smith Massengo

             Palmer

        Wells Afobe

Or if you like, Team 1- Weimann as a wider forward/wider right midfielder pushed high, Afobe or Wells central and Eliasson on the left.

Paterson chips in from time to time- another useful option to have.

Has wasted Benkovic and Henriksen especially- the first a ballplaying CB from a notable nation like Croatia, the 2nd as you describe...Wells has scored some goals but not hit the heights he should. Benkovic should have been a bit of a ball carrying CB with Moore loaned out- a tad harsh loan out for me.

And that's just THIS season.

We had Magnússon- no Iceland are not one of the top sides in the world but are in a bit of a golden generation. He shackled Perisic in a WCQF- showed some potential in periods, wonder if he could've maybe developed into partt of a back 3. Moore-Kalas-Magnússon, two ball carriers in therte, all reasonable technically, all young enough to squeeze up.

Hegeler, O'Neil- Both somewhat injury hit yet both looked rather good early on as I recall. Playing them in a 2 did them- and us- few favours I think.

Yep, top 6 contenders with a style of play to proud of- or should be!

I'd have kept Mags for sure Mr P.

Agree with pretty much all you wrote.

Why play Williams and Baker ( who is so obviously playing out of his skin for a new contract elsewhere) and sign Benkovich, then leave out or loan Kalas and Moore?

Kalas Moore and Baker are my chosen back 3 - yet I'd bet good money that if LJ stays, Kalas and Baker request a move, and a solid offer comes in from a championship side for Moore.

 

Only thing I disagree with is that I honestly feel that managers need to win something at a decent level to be taken seriously by guys that pay at World Cups and in European comps.

2c

[havanatopia]

Quite right what you guys are saying about winning something, playing at a top club etc in order to motivate your players long term. LJ's issue is that he has to be a superb coach and then maintain that level consistently for his players to want to always play for him... It is blindingly obvious they often don't. Not LJ's fault; he simply has that permanent limitation. I think the amount of player signings, the quality, the money spent is an enormous force for good and faith by Steve Lansdown. Clearly he is, or was, desperate for this to work. It must be finally dawning on him that no amount of support is going to give Lee that extra he needs to succeed. He is simply unable to do a job to that higher level necessary to be a long term success. I think that is all there is to it.

Edited July 2, 2020 by havanatopia

[BigTone]

10 hours ago, 1960maaan said:

Some slight adjustment needed I think.

.

 

Ah, I see it now.

@TomFhow do I get my head back ?

Edited July 2, 2020 by BigTone

[Colemanballs]

I totally appreciate the hard work that the mods put in keeping this forum as great as it is, but wonder if there is anything that can be done to fix this archive so that matchday threads are regularly transferred into it, if only as a mark of respect for Havanatopia?

[Colemanballs]

Thank you Mods!

[phantom]

3 hours ago, Colemanballs said:

Thank you Mods!

Still searching for more to move, but is very hard to search for them

Going forward I will aim to move them over here about 48 hours or so after a game

[Colemanballs]

3 hours ago, phantom said:

Still searching for more to move, but is very hard to search for them

Going forward I will aim to move them over here about 48 hours or so after a game

Much appreciated. Thank you.