Dullmoan Tone Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 One player young, little match practice, turned inside out regularly, mostly poor distribution from set pieces. The other young player, with even less match practice, makes 3 excellent forward passes in 15 mins creating space, width and opportunity. Which one starts the next game do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lez Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: One player young, little match practice, turned inside out regularly, mostly poor distribution from set pieces. The other young player, with even less match practice, makes 3 excellent forward passes in 15 mins creating space, width and opportunity. Which one starts the next game do you think? Vyner is a good example of style over substance.....looks pretty, but turned inside out when cleared, absolutely done by Grabban before giving the ball away in an awful position. Not ready for this level of football and we need a right back desperately over the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardy Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 I think you are missing the point with Vyner tbh. Arguably he is still a step up on Hunt - particularly as we have nothing much to play for anyway. As you mention he is going to be rusty so the match practise gives him the opportunity to show whether he has got what we need or not. The debate about Palmer has got nothing to do with Vyner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: One player young, little match practice, turned inside out regularly, mostly poor distribution from set pieces. The other young player, with even less match practice, makes 3 excellent forward passes in 15 mins creating space, width and opportunity. Which one starts the next game do you think? Much as I think KP has been harshly treated, and much as I think having Zac taking corners is bonkers, your question is a nonsense. You’re positioning the choice as between a CB/RB (who has to be in the squad as home grown) and an ACM. Palmers competing with Paterson, Weimann, O’Dowda etc. If you want to say should Zac or Kasey be taking free kicks when both on pitch, that’s a reasonable discussion. Asking whether we should play then on an either/or basis in view of positions isn’t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonBristolian Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said: Much as I think KP has been harshly treated, and much as I think having Zac taking corners is bonkers, your question is a nonsense. You’re positioning the choice as between a CB/RB (who has to be in the squad as home grown) and an ACM. Palmers competing with Paterson, Weimann, O’Dowda etc. If you want to say should Zac or Kasey be taking free kicks when both on pitch, that’s a reasonable discussion. Asking whether we should play then on an either/or basis in view of positions isn’t Yeah. I don't understand the original post. Praising one player doesn't necessarily require criticising another, especially one in a different position entirely. On top of which, if Hunt and Pereira are still injured on Saturday, then it will be Vyner that starts again. But that's not some conspiracy or blag. It's what happens when you are missing your two first choice right backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamC Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 Vyner was one of our pluses tonight. One or two wayward passes but strong, athletic & a trade up on Hunt based on that. Good to see an Academy product play, hope he keeps his place for the remainder of this odd season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chowie Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Lucan said: Palmer is a dud. Let's face it, he did nothing last year on loan and yet we convinced ourselves he was good business when we signed him on a perm. Produces so little, and given so many chances I didn’t want us to sign him, but then started believing LJ about having a full pre season with him and working with him etc. Then he had a few good games at the start and been poor since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTFABM Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Lucan said: Palmer is a dud. Let's face it, he did nothing last year on loan and yet we convinced ourselves he was good business when we signed him on a perm. Produces so little, and given so many chances How? So many chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 50 minutes ago, Lucan said: Palmer is a dud. Let's face it, he did nothing last year on loan and yet we convinced ourselves he was good business when we signed him on a perm. Produces so little, and given so many chances If by we you mean Mark Ashton, and if by convinced you mean Steve Lansdown then I agree. Clearly LJ has never rated him. I'm still not sure why we signed Jay Dasilva either. I'm even less sure why we gave COD a big fat contract, or why we extended Pato's contract two years ago. I could go on .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelts Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 I thought Vyner did ok tonight . Lots more to come from him not like the two previous full backs . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZiderheadTJ Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Sleepy1968 said: If by we you mean Mark Ashton, and if by convinced you mean Steve Lansdown then I agree. Clearly LJ has never rated him. I'm still not sure why we signed Jay Dasilva either. I'm even less sure why we gave COD a big fat contract, or why we extended Pato's contract two years ago. I could go on .... Jay Dasilva is a great left back?? Not sure I agree with that. Would walk into many Championship teams at LB. Agree on COD, worst bit of business by the club. Was obvious no other clubs came in for him and we gave him a massive contract Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Lucan said: Palmer is a dud. Let's face it, he did nothing last year on loan and yet we convinced ourselves he was good business when we signed him on a perm. Produces so little, and given so many chances This a whoosh moment? So many chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted July 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Silvio Dante said: Much as I think KP has been harshly treated, and much as I think having Zac taking corners is bonkers, your question is a nonsense. You’re positioning the choice as between a CB/RB (who has to be in the squad as home grown) and an ACM. Palmers competing with Paterson, Weimann, O’Dowda etc. If you want to say should Zac or Kasey be taking free kicks when both on pitch, that’s a reasonable discussion. Asking whether we should play then on an either/or basis in view of positions isn’t What I am trying to illustrate is LJ is picking very inexperienced players - who are out of their depth. Taylor Moore is a definitely ahead of Vyner and yet ignoring others who clearly have much more ability to affect a game - despite inexperience. So he (probably) sticks with Vyner who had an average cameo on Sunday and in my view an average game today (if we forget all this academy rose tinted glasses stuff). I'm not suggesting they are either / rather that he supports one average young one and probably ignores a very promising one - why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, GrahamC said: Vyner was one of our pluses tonight. One or two wayward passes but strong, athletic & a trade up on Hunt based on that. Good to see an Academy product play, hope he keeps his place for the remainder of this odd season. I liked what I saw, felt safe with him receiving and passing the ball. Wouldn’t mind seeing 2,3,4 more times before the end of the season, but if they are are that level, I’d have no qualms in not recruiting at RB this summer. But as a said, need to see whether that was his best, or his norm. Impressed. 1 hour ago, JonDolman said: Thought Vyner did very well first half. Struggled on a few occasions second half. One time he looked like he gave up. I'm sure he couldn't have, but he just kind of almost stopped and let the guy go past him. Very strange. Thought some of his early dead ball deliveries were very good. Pace on them into good areas. Seemed to lose confidence and started over hitting everything. But good deep cross in open play to Fam on Afobe chance second half. One very good driven low pass to Wells feet. And a superb long pass first half to Dasilva on the left flank. He looks nice and tidy on the ball. One silly turn he attempted and got caught out second half. Probably a 6 overall. Good and bad bits we saw tonight. Fairly promising I think. Has to bulk up a lot more though. Still so skinny. 1. Tired I suspect JD. got through some yards first half, not least coming over to the other side of the pitch for long throws, corners and set pieces....and then having to get back. 2. Yep, great delivery 1st half. Perhaps tiredness again? 3. Nice athletic build imho. I wouldn’t want him much bulkier at this age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dullmoan Tone Posted July 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Dullmoan Tone said: What I am trying to illustrate is LJ is picking very inexperienced players - who are out of their depth. Taylor Moore is a definitely ahead of Vyner and yet ignoring others who clearly have much more ability to affect a game - despite inexperience. So he (probably) sticks with Vyner who had an average cameo on Sunday and in my view an average game today (if we forget all this academy rose tinted glasses stuff). I'm not suggesting they are either / or, rather that he supports one average young one and probably ignores a very promising one - why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YGBjammy Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 I want to like Palmer, but he's still just dining out on that one slick through ball he did early in the season. Would like to see him in a 352 still though, with Smith and Nagy behind him to do the dirty work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 Just now, Lucan said: Yeah of course, we should wait until his 43rd appearance before judging. The previous 42 are just him getting warmed up Give over. Starting one game then sitting out the next ten with a few cameo appearances is not being given a chance. In the 15 minutes he was on today he played more positive forward passes than the whole team has since footballs been back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: What I am trying to illustrate is LJ is picking very inexperienced players - who are out of their depth. Taylor Moore is a definitely ahead of Vyner and yet ignoring others who clearly have much more ability to affect a game - despite inexperience. So he (probably) sticks with Vyner who had an average cameo on Sunday and in my view an average game today (if we forget all this academy rose tinted glasses stuff). I'm not suggesting they are either / rather that he supports one average young one and probably ignores a very promising one - why? Average and cameo don’t really go together do they. Came on with 8 minutes to go, had 2 shots fwiw. Not really fair to evaluate 8 minutes, and if you do he was more positive in 8 minutes that others were in 104!!! Tonight, average....I quite like average. Somewhere between a 6/10 and a 7/10. Too many people use average negatively. If everyone played average tonight, we might have got a result, a couple didn’t. Zak did ok, imho a little bit better than ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 At least Vyner can take a throw. Better than that chocolate-arms rubbish that Brownhill used to attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Dante Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dullmoan Tone said: What I am trying to illustrate is LJ is picking very inexperienced players - who are out of their depth. Taylor Moore is a definitely ahead of Vyner and yet ignoring others who clearly have much more ability to affect a game - despite inexperience. So he (probably) sticks with Vyner who had an average cameo on Sunday and in my view an average game today (if we forget all this academy rose tinted glasses stuff). I'm not suggesting they are either / rather that he supports one average young one and probably ignores a very promising one - why? But you are picking a really bad example. Whats often levied at LJ is that he hasn’t used the youth system. We fall back on Bryan and Reid but they were both in the squad before he got here. Max was picked due to injury and Antoine got a couple of games here and there. He played Joe a few times but sent him on loan. If you, again, want to compare the trust in young players I believe Zak is the same age as Pedro. But he’s played one and sent one on loan. So he’s given the opportunity to the more talented youngster not from the academy. Its a strange hill to die on. I think Zak is only the second (after Antoine) from the academy to start a game this year and there are under five starts all told. Giving Zak a first start in two years isn’t really supporting an average young one, and is actually pretty consistent with how he’s treated the academy to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviestevieneville Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said: One player young, little match practice, turned inside out regularly, mostly poor distribution from set pieces. The other young player, with even less match practice, makes 3 excellent forward passes in 15 mins creating space, width and opportunity. Which one starts the next game do you think? Ones a defender, ones a attacking midfielder . So what’s your point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC Grim Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 30 minutes ago, Lucan said: Your maths is clearly not up to scratch played in 17 of the first 18 matches and chipped in with one goal and 3 assists. Not good enough for a creative player. Involved in a poxy 4 goals, he has as many yellow cards. you have bought a knife to a gun fight here mate. Back away before you make an even bigger fool of yourself We in the wild west are we? Right let's be pedantic shall we. So let's say he was given a long run in the team in that period ( he didn't but I'll go with it just for you). Up to that period we were 6/7. Since hes bombed out we are now 12. Thank you for providing the figures to try and justify your argument. Instead you've just made YOURSELF look like a fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 35 minutes ago, Lucan said: Your maths is clearly not up to scratch played in 17 of the first 18 matches and chipped in with one goal and 3 assists. Not good enough for a creative player. Involved in a poxy 4 goals, he has as many yellow cards. you have bought a knife to a gun fight here mate. Back away before you make an even bigger fool of yourself Just picking up the 4 supposed creative players in our squad. Not including tonight’s game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdliketoRogerMoore Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Dullmoan Tone said: One player young, little match practice, turned inside out regularly, mostly poor distribution from set pieces. The other young player, with even less match practice, makes 3 excellent forward passes in 15 mins creating space, width and opportunity. Which one starts the next game do you think? You want to play Palmer at right back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcofisher Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 Find it bizarre when people say Palmer has been given “so many chances” when he has played 87 minutes since November. He was out of form then yes but certainly has not been given a fair chance. People forget that he has been a playoff winner himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleepy1968 Posted July 1, 2020 Report Share Posted July 1, 2020 1 hour ago, ZiderheadTJ said: Jay Dasilva is a great left back?? Not sure I agree with that. Would walk into many Championship teams at LB. I guess I'm in a minority here but I just think he's a bit average. I think he gets beat too easily, and when he goes forward his crossing is nothing special. But I'm on a bit of a downer with City so : he's young with plenty of time to improve, and would benefit from having someone playing in front of him that would support him a bit more. And he's better defending the left flank than Hunt is defending the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phileas Fogg Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 8 hours ago, marcofisher said: Find it bizarre when people say Palmer has been given “so many chances” when he has played 87 minutes since November. He was out of form then yes but certainly has not been given a fair chance. People forget that he has been a playoff winner himself. It's just the one poster who only posts on here when we're doing badly whilst trying to be as edgy as possible because they think it'll wind people up. Best ignored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Cyril Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 Now Vyner is back from a very successful loan spell at Aberdeen, Lee can put some time into him at the training ground. Can soon coach that talent out of him and reduce him to bang average at best, thus fitting in with the rest of the starting 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1960maaan Posted July 2, 2020 Report Share Posted July 2, 2020 10 hours ago, Davefevs said: Just picking up the 4 supposed creative players in our squad. Not including tonight’s game I love a stat admit I'm biased towards Palmer, I love his vision. I think Palmer only play 4 games with Afobe, 2 wins , 2 draws , scored 8 (all but 1 while he was on) BA with3 goals. I think it makes a big difference to, not only Palmers game, but Weiman and others too. BA's movement makes the games easier. Eliasson's a funny one. Top assists , but poor out of possession. IMO many assists would come later in the game, when we are chasing, or defenders are tired and there is no doubt about his crossing ability if he's given a yard. *Over half of his goals & assists come around or after the hour mark. ( 3 goals 12 assists) While rooting around I also found Palmer has lost possession leading to 2 goals. Not sure what I've proved, if anything. What I would say is, I would like to see Palmer given a run, now that he has movement ahead of him again. Either that, or give Eliasson a couple of games if Nagy and Smith can replicate the first half. Being stronger in MF takes a little pressure off , plus JD is great up to the 18 yard box, makes angles and triangles, good in possession, no reason they couldn't compliment each other. Vyner on whoscored, 76% successful passes, I'm surprised it was that high. Dispossessed once, again thought it would be worse. 15 games for Aberdeen takes his total to about 50, so still raw. Has all the attributes , but I'd want him to stop trying long passes, and get rid of the ball quicker. I'd give him until the end of the season, whoever the manager is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davefevs Posted July 3, 2020 Report Share Posted July 3, 2020 On 02/07/2020 at 10:24, 1960maaan said: I love a stat admit I'm biased towards Palmer, I love his vision. I think Palmer only play 4 games with Afobe, 2 wins , 2 draws , scored 8 (all but 1 while he was on) BA with3 goals. I think it makes a big difference to, not only Palmers game, but Weiman and others too. BA's movement makes the games easier. Eliasson's a funny one. Top assists , but poor out of possession. IMO many assists would come later in the game, when we are chasing, or defenders are tired and there is no doubt about his crossing ability if he's given a yard. *Over half of his goals & assists come around or after the hour mark. ( 3 goals 12 assists) While rooting around I also found Palmer has lost possession leading to 2 goals. Not sure what I've proved, if anything. What I would say is, I would like to see Palmer given a run, now that he has movement ahead of him again. Either that, or give Eliasson a couple of games if Nagy and Smith can replicate the first half. Being stronger in MF takes a little pressure off , plus JD is great up to the 18 yard box, makes angles and triangles, good in possession, no reason they couldn't compliment each other. Vyner on whoscored, 76% successful passes, I'm surprised it was that high. Dispossessed once, again thought it would be worse. 15 games for Aberdeen takes his total to about 50, so still raw. Has all the attributes , but I'd want him to stop trying long passes, and get rid of the ball quicker. I'd give him until the end of the season, whoever the manager is. Sent you a DM on twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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