Jump to content
IGNORED

Our Johnson Identity


BrizzleRed

Recommended Posts

I’ve been thinking about the situation we currently find ourselves in and I can’t help wondering if one of our problems is, we’re far too closely linked to the Johnson family for our own good

We had a couple of great years under Gary Johnson and I’ll always be grateful for that.  Apart from a purple patch under his son which lasted a few months in 2017, the rest of the football under both the Johnson’s has been pretty cautious, drab and forgettable.

Neither of them are known for expansive football and are generally content to fill their sides with hard working ‘busy bees’, whilst not trusting the more creative players.  Just think how many of the more gifted players have had a pretty rough ride with us over recent years? David Noble, Evander Sno, LeeTrundle, Lee Tomlin & Casey Palmer are all ones who immediately spring to mind

When you compare both Johnson’s styles and teams, they have far more similarities than differences, though clearly, junior didn’t inherit his father’s skills of man management, or maximising a team’s potential.  It does appear that neither has what it takes to manage higher than Championship level though.

It feels to me that the time has come to say thank you for all your efforts, but we need to finally break free from the workmanlike, largely one-dimensional football we’ve had under both Johnson’s

It strikes me that SL is far too heavily influenced by their opinions and football philosophy and this is causing the club to be blinkered to other views within the football environment and it’s having a detrimental influence on SL’s decision making.

Maybe this is now the time to make a clean break and start focussing on creating a team that maximises the talents of the players we have available in the squad, but in a way that can instil some creativity.  We should be incorporating their natural talents, rather than stifling them, to fit them into a rigid, inflexible system they aren’t suited to.  It’s about time we stopped banging those square pegs into round holes.

At the moment, it feels like the club is trying to run with its feet tied together and this could be due to sticking far too close to the Johnson principles  The other issue is around the often asked question of, what is the club’s identity?  My honest answer to that question would have to be, that our identity  is a Johnson one.

Isn’t it about time we start setting our sights higher and wider now, to be able to successfully move this club forward?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BrizzleRed said:

Neither of them are known for expansive football and are generally content to fill their sides with hard working ‘busy bees’, whilst not trusting the more creative players.  Just think how many of the more gifted players have had a pretty rough ride with us over recent years? David Noble, Evander Sno, LeeTrundle, Lee Tomlin & Casey Palmer are all ones who immediately spring to mind

That’s an interesting group of players.  All might be considered ‘fans favourites’ (in the Djeikanowski mould).  What most all had in common was that they were inconsistent and were not necessarily team players.  Trundle was given every opportunity but looked out of his depth and didn’t deliver until the last few games of the play-off season.  Sno was very frustrating and his best game at Ashton Gate was actually against us in a friendly.  For all his undoubted skill, Tomlin was toxic in terms of the squad and I should think was a manager’s nightmare.  Palmer I’m not sure about, but I have never seen him produce a top performance for 90 minutes, and his flaws mean that I suspect you would have to shape a side around him.  The exception is Noble who, by his own admission (and I’ve talked to him about it) did not have the best lifestyle for a professional footballer and lacked fitness for most of his time with us.  GJ knew what a gem of a player he was and made the most out of him that he could but, sadly, Dave was his own worst enemy.  Really great that eventually, after he left City, he sorted himself out and is still playing in non-league football.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

That’s an interesting group of players.  All might be considered ‘fans favourites’ (in the Djeikanowski mould).  What most all had in common was that they were inconsistent and were not necessarily team players.  Trundle was given every opportunity but looked out of his depth and didn’t deliver until the last few games of the play-off season.  Sno was very frustrating and his best game at Ashton Gate was actually against us in a friendly.  For all his undoubted skill, Tomlin was toxic in terms of the squad and I should think was a manager’s nightmare.  Palmer I’m not sure about, but I have never seen him produce a top performance for 90 minutes, and his flaws mean that I suspect you would have to shape a side around him.  The exception is Noble who, by his own admission (and I’ve talked to him about it) did not have the best lifestyle for a professional footballer and lacked fitness for most of his time with us.  GJ knew what a gem of a player he was and made the most out of him that he could but, sadly, Dave was his own worst enemy.  Really great that eventually, after he left City, he sorted himself out and is still playing in non-league football.

I absolutely see what you’re getting at TDP, but you also emphasise exactly what I’m getting at with both Johnson’s.  

Under their philosophy, the things you mention are considered flaws that are too big a risk  to justify using in their system, while other managers could see what these players could offer and have the flexibility to use them within their playing systems and consider the benefits of their talents justify their ‘baggage’.

Using a couple of examples, how often was Lee Trundle stuck out wide right by GJ?  Given his lack of pace, he was hardly going to shine out there.  At Swansea, he scored for fun, because he played in his proper central position and therefore to his strengths.  With us, he was shoehorned onto the pitch in an area right out of his comfort zone.

Now onto Tomlin.  Yes, he was toxic here, but how much of that was due to falling out with LJ?  He’s had ups and downs at clubs for sure, but was great at Peterbrough and sounds like he’s pretty well thought of at Cardiff now.

I just question if the Johnson emphasis on ‘busy bees’ (Calum O’Dowda?), to the detriment of real flair and talent could be holding us back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

Lee Tomlin really did not get a rough ride. He was a couple of stone over weight and didn't care.

Amazed he got played so much by LJ. Should have been out of the side quite early that season when it was clear he wasn't the same player.

We were heading down, and dropping him actually kept us up imo.

Tomlin is clearly a flawed character, but my point is, neither of the Johnson’s or their playing style seem to be able to work with flair players and we look very sterile and lack creativity on the pitch because of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/07/2020 at 09:17, BrizzleRed said:

I’ve been thinking about the situation we currently find ourselves in and I can’t help wondering if one of our problems is, we’re far too closely linked to the Johnson family for our own good

We had a couple of great years under Gary Johnson and I’ll always be grateful for that.  Apart from a purple patch under his son which lasted a few months in 2017, the rest of the football under both the Johnson’s has been pretty cautious, drab and forgettable.

Neither of them are known for expansive football and are generally content to fill their sides with hard working ‘busy bees’, whilst not trusting the more creative players.  Just think how many of the more gifted players have had a pretty rough ride with us over recent years? David Noble, Evander Sno, LeeTrundle, Lee Tomlin & Casey Palmer are all ones who immediately spring to mind

When you compare both Johnson’s styles and teams, they have far more similarities than differences, though clearly, junior didn’t inherit his father’s skills of man management, or maximising a team’s potential.  It does appear that neither has what it takes to manage higher than Championship level though.

It feels to me that the time has come to say thank you for all your efforts, but we need to finally break free from the workmanlike, largely one-dimensional football we’ve had under both Johnson’s

It strikes me that SL is far too heavily influenced by their opinions and football philosophy and this is causing the club to be blinkered to other views within the football environment and it’s having a detrimental influence on SL’s decision making.

Maybe this is now the time to make a clean break and start focussing on creating a team that maximises the talents of the players we have available in the squad, but in a way that can instil some creativity.  We should be incorporating their natural talents, rather than stifling them, to fit them into a rigid, inflexible system they aren’t suited to.  It’s about time we stopped banging those square pegs into round holes.

At the moment, it feels like the club is trying to run with its feet tied together and this could be due to sticking far too close to the Johnson principles  The other issue is around the often asked question of, what is the club’s identity?  My honest answer to that question would have to be, that our identity  is a Johnson one.

Isn’t it about time we start setting our sights higher and wider now, to be able to successfully move this club forward?

Don't tell me that it has taken you this length of time to realise that Johnsonism is a bad way to go.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 02/07/2020 at 09:17, BrizzleRed said:

I’ve been thinking about the situation we currently find ourselves in and I can’t help wondering if one of our problems is, we’re far too closely linked to the Johnson family for our own good

We had a couple of great years under Gary Johnson and I’ll always be grateful for that.  Apart from a purple patch under his son which lasted a few months in 2017, the rest of the football under both the Johnson’s has been pretty cautious, drab and forgettable.

Neither of them are known for expansive football and are generally content to fill their sides with hard working ‘busy bees’, whilst not trusting the more creative players.  Just think how many of the more gifted players have had a pretty rough ride with us over recent years? David Noble, Evander Sno, LeeTrundle, Lee Tomlin & Casey Palmer are all ones who immediately spring to mind

When you compare both Johnson’s styles and teams, they have far more similarities than differences, though clearly, junior didn’t inherit his father’s skills of man management, or maximising a team’s potential.  It does appear that neither has what it takes to manage higher than Championship level though.

It feels to me that the time has come to say thank you for all your efforts, but we need to finally break free from the workmanlike, largely one-dimensional football we’ve had under both Johnson’s

It strikes me that SL is far too heavily influenced by their opinions and football philosophy and this is causing the club to be blinkered to other views within the football environment and it’s having a detrimental influence on SL’s decision making.

Maybe this is now the time to make a clean break and start focussing on creating a team that maximises the talents of the players we have available in the squad, but in a way that can instil some creativity.  We should be incorporating their natural talents, rather than stifling them, to fit them into a rigid, inflexible system they aren’t suited to.  It’s about time we stopped banging those square pegs into round holes.

At the moment, it feels like the club is trying to run with its feet tied together and this could be due to sticking far too close to the Johnson principles  The other issue is around the often asked question of, what is the club’s identity?  My honest answer to that question would have to be, that our identity  is a Johnson one.

Isn’t it about time we start setting our sights higher and wider now, to be able to successfully move this club forward?

I’ve just written my “Cardiff - What Can We Expect” piece, but as OTIB was down I wrote it in MS Word and I’ll share a link tomorrow morning (will probably appear in Bristol Live).

Part of the thrust of what I wrote was about Harris’s 4231.

In 3 games back we’ve played:

GK: Bentley, Maenpaa, Maenpaa (Bentley) - initial keeper change not injury related.

RB: Pereira (Hunt), Hunt, Vyner - can’t help Pereiraks injury but a Vyner was “tactical”.

LB: Rowe (Dasilva), Dasilva x2 - not injury related.

CB: Kalas and Baker, Williams and Baker x2 - suspension gonna ruin that one.

Cardiff have played:

Smithies, Sanderson, Bennett, Nelson and Morrison in every minute so far!!!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I’ve just written my “Cardiff - What Can We Expect” piece, but as OTIB was down I wrote it in MS Word and I’ll share a link tomorrow morning (will probably appear in Bristol Live).

Part of the thrust of what I wrote was about Harris’s 4231.

In 3 games back we’ve played:

GK: Bentley, Maenpaa, Maenpaa (Bentley) - initial keeper change not injury related.

RB: Pereira (Hunt), Hunt, Vyner - can’t help Pereiraks injury but a Vyner was “tactical”.

LB: Rowe (Dasilva), Dasilva x2 - not injury related.

CB: Kalas and Baker, Williams and Baker x2 - suspension gonna ruin that one.

Cardiff have played:

Smithies, Sanderson, Bennett, Nelson and Morrison in every minute so far!!!

 

Says it all really Dave and we can bet Cardiff will look way more settled than us.

LJ has had all this time to gradually build his squad, had several weeks at the end of the lockdown to work with the players and get some understanding going, but still has to keep shuffling the pack.  He clearly still hasn’t got a clue what his best team is, though I suppose with his approach of trying to counter the opposition, he’s never going to have a settled team and play the same team or tactics two games running ...... and it shows!

It’s hard to remember our side with such a confused, disjointed team and tactics, who are so devoid of attacking ideas or creativity.  It really makes you wonder what actual coaching he does because, while the opposition can look well drilled, we just look shambolic and LJ has run out of excuses to explain this.

I honestly can’t see any way forward for LJ and he seems to have run out of options now.

I really hope there can be some kind of mutual agreement deal struck, that can persuade LJ that the right option is to move on.  If SL can do that without having to actually sack him, there may be more chance of it happening.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

 

I really hope there can be some kind of mutual agreement deal struck, that can persuade LJ that the right option is to move on.  If SL can do that without having to actually sack him, there may be more chance of it happening.

 

I would imagine the terms of his pay-off would be 12 months pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I would imagine the terms of his pay-off would be 12 months pay.

At least it isn’t several years he’d be getting.    

It just feels so stale now and he probably needs a new start just much as we need rid of him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, cidered abroad said:

Don't tell me that it has taken you this length of time to realise that Johnsonism is a bad way to go.

 

No, realised that a long time ago mate.

Only just begun to realise how the whole Johnson mentality and philosophy has got so deeply rooted in the club though and it’s not a good place to be 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, JonDolman said:

Oh yeah agree to some extent. Though Paterson he seems to like to play a lot who is a flair player. Eliasson too.

Maybe flair players that lack work rate or stamina don't get much of a chance.

I don't blame LJ not playing Palmer after Afobe injury. I would have thought he would have given him a go now though, or when Wells signed.

True JD and very good point about the workrate and stamina and Patterson in particular scores on those points, though he’s pretty inconsistent as we all know.

It just seems if you don’t run around a, you aren’t going to get much time in a Johnson team.  Put another way, I think LJ is very forgiving of players who are ‘busy bees’  and can get picked week after week, regardless of their form, while the flair players get cut very little slack and are hooked very quickly.

In the case of Palmer, he doesn’t seem lazy, but looks like the kind of player who needs a run of games to build some understanding.  He just seems like another of the wasted talents we’ve had here and I think it’s no surprise that Johnson teams lack flair and creativity because of that.

I’d love to see Palmer get a couple of games with a midfield of Smith and Nagy before the end of the season, with Palmer sitting behind Wells and Afobe, where he can ping balls through for them to run onto.  

Palmer in a midfield with Walsh and Morrell nect season could also be interesting, as they seem to have been building reputations this season as good ball winners, while Walsh also has a great passing range apparently.

Unless Johnson can get over his apparent fixation with workrate over talent, I can’t see any way we’re going to address the glaring lack of creativity in the side.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, BrizzleRed said:

True JD and very good point about the workrate and stamina and Patterson in particular scores on those points, though he’s pretty inconsistent as we all know.

It just seems if you don’t run around a, you aren’t going to get much time in a Johnson team.  Put another way, I think LJ is very forgiving of players who are ‘busy bees’  and can get picked week after week, regardless of their form, while the flair players get cut very little slack and are hooked very quickly.

In the case of Palmer, he doesn’t seem lazy, but looks like the kind of player who needs a run of games to build some understanding.  He just seems like another of the wasted talents we’ve had here and I think it’s no surprise that Johnson teams lack flair and creativity because of that.

I’d love to see Palmer get a couple of games with a midfield of Smith and Nagy before the end of the season, with Palmer sitting behind Wells and Afobe, where he can ping balls through for them to run onto.  

Palmer in a midfield with Walsh and Morrell nect season could also be interesting, as they seem to have been building reputations this season as good ball winners, while Walsh also has a great passing range apparently.

Unless Johnson can get over his apparent fixation with workrate over talent, I can’t see any way we’re going to address the glaring lack of creativity in the side.

 

Creative players are often called “Mavericks”, and sometimes that tag is justified, although frequently it’s just a lazy epithet. It’s the talented coach who can harness one and make it work, and even then it may not be enough. Who remembers Stan Bowles career at Nottingham Forest under Clough? Thought not.

The question for me is if LJ had JET would he have been able to use him in the way that Cotterill managed? Remember that JET wasn’t his preferred midfielder (he inherited him from SO’D) but when he did bring him in, he managed to make it work. It also helped that it coincided with Matt Smith’s loan but that doesn’t detract from the issue. 

LJ has struggled with midfield creativity throughout his time with us. Paterson is the only one that has even come part good. CO’D appears to have lost any forward threat he once had. In fact, the number of goals from our midfield is an embarrassment, but my take on that is that is down to their coaching. LJ himself was hardly much of a goalscorer as a player, that responsibility fell to Marvin Elliot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Dr Balls said:

Creative players are often called “Mavericks”, and sometimes that tag is justified, although frequently it’s just a lazy epithet. It’s the talented coach who can harness one and make it work, and even then it may not be enough. Who remembers Stan Bowles career at Nottingham Forest under Clough? Thought not.

The question for me is if LJ had JET would he have been able to use him in the way that Cotterill managed? Remember that JET wasn’t his preferred midfielder (he inherited him from SO’D) but when he did bring him in, he managed to make it work. It also helped that it coincided with Matt Smith’s loan but that doesn’t detract from the issue. 

LJ has struggled with midfield creativity throughout his time with us. Paterson is the only one that has even come part good. CO’D appears to have lost any forward threat he once had. In fact, the number of goals from our midfield is an embarrassment, but my take on that is that is down to their coaching. LJ himself was hardly much of a goalscorer as a player, that responsibility fell to Marvin Elliot.

Great post Dr and I think it’s pretty likely JET would have never got in the field under LJ.

I think it’s fair to say, as you alluded to, that LJ has succeeded in creating a team that perfectly reflects him as a player. Does a lot of running about, shirks tackles, never goes for a telling pass if a square or backward one is available, never shoots from distance and tries to bore the opposition into submission.

In a nutshell, dull as ****!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

True JD and very good point about the workrate and stamina and Patterson in particular scores on those points, though he’s pretty inconsistent as we all know.

It just seems if you don’t run around a, you aren’t going to get much time in a Johnson team.  Put another way, I think LJ is very forgiving of players who are ‘busy bees’  and can get picked week after week, regardless of their form, while the flair players get cut very little slack and are hooked very quickly.

In the case of Palmer, he doesn’t seem lazy, but looks like the kind of player who needs a run of games to build some understanding.  He just seems like another of the wasted talents we’ve had here and I think it’s no surprise that Johnson teams lack flair and creativity because of that.

I’d love to see Palmer get a couple of games with a midfield of Smith and Nagy before the end of the season, with Palmer sitting behind Wells and Afobe, where he can ping balls through for them to run onto.  

Palmer in a midfield with Walsh and Morrell nect season could also be interesting, as they seem to have been building reputations this season as good ball winners, while Walsh also has a great passing range apparently.

Unless Johnson can get over his apparent fixation with workrate over talent, I can’t see any way we’re going to address the glaring lack of creativity in the side.

 

Work rate is talent. Liverpool are based upon it. Creativity can be work smarter faster, moving the ball more efficiently. Again referencing Liverpool Klopp refers to their counter pressing as the best number ten there is.

However Lee Johnson is not pursuing that approach. Bristol City under Lee Johnson are not prioritising work rate as a skill. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

I think Palmer's problem is stamina. There was one game at home where he chased and challenged like a proper busy bee. I said on here at half time that Palmer has turned into Bobby Reid!

But then second half he could hardly run. So for me it seems to be him conserving his energy that is the reason we don't see him running like some of the 'busy bees'.

I don't understand why we haven't gone back to that 352 of Derby away and other wins earlier in the season.

Palmer would be made for that formation. He was fantastic that night. And when Szmodics comes back i know he says his best position is behind 2 strikers. I would say out of any system that would suit Pato too, in behind 2 strikers with movement.

It could be that we use Palmer for 60-70 and then bring Pato on in that position. Next season we could then bring Szmodics in and look at moving Pato on if we feel Szmodics is an upgrade.

We will probably sell wingers Eliasson and maybe Watkins too.

I don't understand how LJ likes to play 2 strikers, but always seems to bring in wingers as well as bringing in 2 attacking midfielders in the summer.

Can't play them all! 

Surely LJ should look at what worked in the past and simply go with that kind of plan again.

That means Palmer in, but like I said Pato as a very good alternative if Palmer tired second half.

Even go with Weimann and Afobe if he has to. And drop Wells. It worked so well at the start of the season. But I'd like to think Palmer in behind Wells and Afobe could work.

One of the most frustrating things is when LJ does succeed with a team and formation as you pointed out vs Derby, he generally fails to reproduce it in subsequent games.  I

Palmer may well have stamina issues as you say, but employed intelligently, you’d still think he could have a lot to offer, without having to just run around like a headless chicken and wear himself out.

As you say, there are some great possibilities with our squad, but the longer LJ has been in post, the more obvious its  been that he doesn’t have the skills to create a cohesive unit.  

He seems unable to even get many players anywhere near their full potential, let along create a team that’s more than the sum of its parts.  

Maybe the players are as confused by his gameplan as we are as fans.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Work rate is talent. Liverpool are based upon it. Creativity can be work smarter faster, moving the ball more efficiently. Again referencing Liverpool Klopp refers to their counter pressing as the best number ten there is.

However Lee Johnson is not pursuing that approach. Bristol City under Lee Johnson are not prioritising work rate as a skill. 

Oh yes, work rate is certainly a talent and as Liverpool have proved, it can be devastating when players have other skills to complement that work rate. 

The problem I see with both Johnson’s is they seem to put workrate at the very top of the priority list, with any additional skills being an added bonus, rather than being seen as a vital requirement.

Successful teams aren’t built on work rate alone, but that appears to be basically what LJ’s attempting to do.  Obviously we’re dealing with players of a totally different standard to Liverpool, but unless LJ can find a way to incorporate some raw talent, his teams are surely going to continue to be dull, predictable and unimaginative.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Dr Balls said:

Creative players are often called “Mavericks”, and sometimes that tag is justified, although frequently it’s just a lazy epithet. It’s the talented coach who can harness one and make it work, and even then it may not be enough. Who remembers Stan Bowles career at Nottingham Forest under Clough? Thought not.

The question for me is if LJ had JET would he have been able to use him in the way that Cotterill managed? Remember that JET wasn’t his preferred midfielder (he inherited him from SO’D) but when he did bring him in, he managed to make it work. It also helped that it coincided with Matt Smith’s loan but that doesn’t detract from the issue. 

LJ has struggled with midfield creativity throughout his time with us. Paterson is the only one that has even come part good. CO’D appears to have lost any forward threat he once had. In fact, the number of goals from our midfield is an embarrassment, but my take on that is that is down to their coaching. LJ himself was hardly much of a goalscorer as a player, that responsibility fell to Marvin Elliot.

Me ? Didn’t work out well did it.  Clough wasn’t adverse to flair players, Gemmill, Robertson etc.

1 hour ago, BrizzleRed said:

Great post Dr and I think it’s pretty likely JET would have never got in the field under LJ.

I think it’s fair to say, as you alluded to, that LJ has succeeded in creating a team that perfectly reflects him as a player. Does a lot of running about, shirks tackles, never goes for a telling pass if a square or backward one is available, never shoots from distance and tries to bore the opposition into submission.

In a nutshell, dull as ****!

I never really saw LJ play apart from on tv, but it seems to be the view that the tram is styled on him.  How many managers in the workplace promote mirror images of themselves?  The brave bosses bring in people to provide a different view, a challenge, etc.

re running about a lot, I see several players who run about inefficiently.  Their running doesn’t impact the opposition player in possession, or when we have the ball they run to hide behind an opponent to lose any passing angle. 

14 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

A good thing to do against Forest could have been to have Palmer in Watson's area of the pitch. Watson is a good player but I would fancy Palmer (on a good day) to cause him problems.

So Palmer running towards that back 2 of Forest with the movement of Wells and Afobe ahead of him, if he could beat Watson. The one thing Palmer offers is the ability to beat a man in the middle of the pitch. A very dangerous weapon to have in the side.

Palmer caused Kalvin Phillips problems against Leeds and forced Phillips into a booking. Maybe the best holding midfielder in division. Though maybe suits Palmer the fact Leeds are open to the counter. He showed what he can do against a superb midfielder at this level.

Instead midweek we had the ball coming in from wide positions headed away all day by big forest centre backs.

The only times we created anything was when we managed to get nearer the bye line. Pato cross near the end and Vyner cross to back post. Not easy to get it into good crossing positions, especially when up against a full back of Cash's ability. That seemed our only way. It doesn't suit Afobe and Wells.

Nothing coming through the middle of the pitch, or when we did we lacked quality from Weimann or odowda. Wells dropping off but not suiting what he's good at.

A kind of set up that would suit Burnley kind of strike force that can make something out of a ball into the box. Wood and Barnes you get a ball even from deep into them and they'll cause defence problems.

Wells and Afobe both decent in the air. But not good enough in that area to cause that forest defence many problems.

Today, we’ll possibly see how Nagy and Smith play out with Tomlin as the presser.  I know it’s a different picture to what you’re painting, but if we can move the ball into midfield fairly quickly, we can create overloads a bit further forward.  Forest were disciplined behind Grabban on Wednesday.  We never really drew Watson or Yates out, or exposed them with an extra player.  It’s where we needed Callum or Andi to be coming in 20-25 yards off the wings to create short passing options.  Dasilva, especially, was getting forward on the left to negate the need for Callum to play wide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, JonDolman said:

A good thing to do against Forest could have been to have Palmer in Watson's area of the pitch. Watson is a good player but I would fancy Palmer (on a good day) to cause him problems.

So Palmer running towards that back 2 of Forest with the movement of Wells and Afobe ahead of him, if he could beat Watson. The one thing Palmer offers is the ability to beat a man in the middle of the pitch. A very dangerous weapon to have in the side.

Palmer caused Kalvin Phillips problems against Leeds and forced Phillips into a booking. Maybe the best holding midfielder in division. Though maybe suits Palmer the fact Leeds are open to the counter. He showed what he can do against a superb midfielder at this level.

Instead midweek we had the ball coming in from wide positions headed away all day by big forest centre backs.

The only times we created anything was when we managed to get nearer the bye line. Pato cross near the end and Vyner cross to back post. Not easy to get it into good crossing positions, especially when up against a full back of Cash's ability. That seemed our only way. It doesn't suit Afobe and Wells.

Nothing coming through the middle of the pitch, or when we did we lacked quality from Weimann or odowda. Wells dropping off but not suiting what he's good at.

A kind of set up that would suit Burnley kind of strike force that can make something out of a ball into the box. Wood and Barnes you get a ball even from deep into them and they'll cause defence problems.

Wells and Afobe both decent in the air. But not good enough in that area to cause that forest defence many problems.

Sounds good JD and wish LJ shared those views.

It’s one thing when you just don’t have the flair in the squad, but if you’re as dull as we are and don’t at least try to use it when you have it available, that’s pretty unforgivable.

Players like Palmer won’t click every game, but just have that unpredictability and vision to suddenly produce something out of nothing.

He doesn’t help himself sometimes, but totally wasted with us sadly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...