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Players to stay or go under new boss.


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On 05/07/2020 at 09:08, Dr Balls said:

All depends on the formation played.

Goalkeeper is going to be Bentley for now, with Max as back up. Unfortunately Maenpaa is injury prone and although not old for a goalkeeper, has probably already reached the point where his fitness can’t be relied upon. 

Given the players at our disposal, one option that would make us stronger is to play 3-5-2, with Kalas, Baker and Moore at the back. One very good in the air, two with experience and one who can definitely bring the ball out of defence. Dasilva as a left wing back. Hunt is the obvious wing back in this system, but defensively has seemed suspect at best.

Midfield I would go with Nagy, Massengo or Walsh, and Palmer. Korey has probably had his time. Cover from Morrell, but we could do with a more muscular midfielder as well (Shame Henriksen didn’t stay).

Up front, it would be Afobe (if he stays) and Wells. Fam on the bench or instead of Afobe. Weimann as an alternative to Wells, same for Szmodics, who could replace Palmer if we went to 2 central midfielders.

Eliasson on the bench as an option, especially to provide crosses for Fam.

Which leaves us with what to do about CO’D. Not really a winger anymore and neither is he a good enough midfielder. Could he be converted into a right wing back?

Williams has played his last game for us, I would guess. Periera may be in the same position as his loan ends.

There is definitely the potential to make a good team from this lot. We have spent heavily in the past 12 months, (more than most other teams in this league) given the fees we got for Kelly and Webster last summer, so I don’t think there will be many new additions.

Where is the ball winner in your midfield? Teams would run straight through us and win everything in the air in midfield

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The squad is good enough for the playoffs. It's the coaching that's let us down.

As far as the playing staff are concerned IMO I can easily see the following happening;

Maenpaa gone. O' Leary as understudy.

Hunt gone. Pereira signed on a permanent.

Rowe gone.

Williams gone. Benkovic sent back.

Smith released. Szmodics sold. Watkins, Nagy, Massengo & Eliasson sold to make way for quality incomings.

Diedhiou sold Afobe bought. 

A lot depends on the incoming head coach and his vision. A lot depends on Walsh & Morrell stepping up to the plate. Both could have a major impact on next season.

 

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21 minutes ago, mozo said:

Gregor suggesting that Afobe will not return next season.

Let’s be honest that is hardly a shock, is it?

On £35k a week, just had the 2nd serious injury of his career & we bought Wells in January.

Will always have huge admiration for him but would have been an enormous gamble to sign him after his injury.

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We know there are many decisions to be made about players. For a start we have 5 keepers (not 3) in Maenpaa, Bentley, O'leary, Wollacott and Gilmartin. At least 2 of these have to go. Personally, I'd give a new contract to Maenpaa, keep O'leary, send Wollacott out on loan, sell Bentley and release Gilmartin. 

At the back I'd buy Perreira if I could, sell Hunt, keep Vyner, Taylor Moore, Dasilva and Rowe. I'd keep Baker who's been our best defender by far since the return of football. Kalas I'd like to keep but I want to see improvement or I'd listen to offers. Williams to be released. 

In midfield Walsh and Morrell deserve their chance but Korey should now depart with our thanks. I'd like to keep Eliasson who's option year has been triggered but I don't know if its possible. I'd keep Paterson, Massengo and Nagy but for Palmer see Kalas above. I'd try to offload Watkins and Adelakun but accept it might be difficult. Promote Jonny Smith to the squad. 

I'd like to keep Wells and Diedhiou and would try to but Afobe. I'm not unhappy with Weimann but would move on if a decent offer came along. 

All other players, including the likes of Semenyo, Bakinson, Morton etc I'd leave until preseason to determine further loan or a cutting of the strings. 

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On 05/07/2020 at 08:31, WarksRobin said:

I imagine the new coach will look at our squad, see two forwards who are good in the air, two wingers and work out some way of creating goals

Exactly, put the forwards on the wing and the wingers on the bench

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COD, Paterson, Weimann, Watkins, Adelakun, Hunt and Williams to go for me. 
 

Jury is still out for Nagy but I think he deserves this summer. Hopefully this new gaffer will get the best out of him.

 

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3 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

COD, Paterson, Weimann, Watkins, Adelakun, Hunt and Williams to go for me. 
 

Jury is still out for Nagy but I think he deserves this summer. Hopefully this new gaffer will get the best out of him.

 

For all the criticism of him recently, I’d keep O’Dowda, in the hope that a new coach can get him on top of his game again.  At his best, he is a very good footballer indeed and worth persevering with a bit longer.

I’d be sad to see Jack Hunt go, having enjoyed many of his performances, but he’s not going to get any better and time us probably up.

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1 minute ago, The Dolman Pragmatist said:

For all the criticism of him recently, I’d keep O’Dowda, in the hope that a new coach can get him on top of his game again.  At his best, he is a very good footballer indeed and worth persevering with a bit longer.

I’d be sad to see Jack Hunt go, having enjoyed many of his performances, but he’s not going to get any better and time us probably up.

In fairness to COD, I think he’s done okay these last 4 games but I believe his time is up at City. Hasn’t done enough on a consistent basis and we should really look for better now.

Don’t agree with Hunt. Think he’s been a bit of a liability.

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16 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

Let’s be honest that is hardly a shock, is it?

On £35k a week, just had the 2nd serious injury of his career & we bought Wells in January.

Will always have huge admiration for him but would have been an enormous gamble to sign him after his injury.

That's fair comment. Given we've invested in Wells it makes sense to build our team with him as the main man up front. 

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I'd like to see us all out committed to a 352.

I think my goalies would be Bentley, Max, and Maenpaa (in that order). Gilmartin retained as a coach (which is basically what he is already) and Wollacott either sold or another loan.

Defenders would be Kalas, Moore, and Baker I think. LB Dasilva with a new RB on the other side. Vyner retained as a utility sub for the defence.

In midfield I'd have Nagy and Walsh/Morrell/Massengo. I'd keep Smith around but on the understanding that it would be a less prominent role.

Up top I'd try and retain Afobe and actually the same with Fam. IMO these two could produce a decent partnership, Fam doing the physical hard work and dragging defenders and Afobe mopping up goals in the box. I'd have Janneh as my 4th striker.

So that's a 15 man squad there.

Pretty much everyone else could go. Cash in on Eliasson, terminate the loans of Pedro, Williams, Benkovic. Sell or loan out Paterson, Hunt, COD, Weimann, Adelakun etc. I've not mentioned Wells or Palmer because frankly I don't know what I'd do with them. IMO both flatter to deceive and neither have performed to the level that many expected when we signed them. I suspect I'd sell them if a good offer came in, but if nothing showed then they can stick around for another season. 

Then we'd need some new blood. Probably at least one new addition in CB, definitely a new right wing back, a new attacking midfielder and probably at least one new striker.

So that is 15 of the current squad, plus 4 new signings, assume a retained Wells and Palmer and you've got a tight squad of 21. Complement that with a couple of youth players or a loan here or there and you're operating with a solid team that knows what it is doing. It might not work, and it's not hugely flexible (although there's a narrow 442 in there as a plan B) but I at least offer up a clear plan.

What the actual new manager will do...no idea.

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59 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I'd like to see us all out committed to a 352.

I think my goalies would be Bentley, Max, and Maenpaa (in that order). Gilmartin retained as a coach (which is basically what he is already) and Wollacott either sold or another loan.

Defenders would be Kalas, Moore, and Baker I think. LB Dasilva with a new RB on the other side. Vyner retained as a utility sub for the defence.

In midfield I'd have Nagy and Walsh/Morrell/Massengo. I'd keep Smith around but on the understanding that it would be a less prominent role.

Up top I'd try and retain Afobe and actually the same with Fam. IMO these two could produce a decent partnership, Fam doing the physical hard work and dragging defenders and Afobe mopping up goals in the box. I'd have Janneh as my 4th striker.

So that's a 15 man squad there.

Pretty much everyone else could go. Cash in on Eliasson, terminate the loans of Pedro, Williams, Benkovic. Sell or loan out Paterson, Hunt, COD, Weimann, Adelakun etc. I've not mentioned Wells or Palmer because frankly I don't know what I'd do with them. IMO both flatter to deceive and neither have performed to the level that many expected when we signed them. I suspect I'd sell them if a good offer came in, but if nothing showed then they can stick around for another season. 

Then we'd need some new blood. Probably at least one new addition in CB, definitely a new right wing back, a new attacking midfielder and probably at least one new striker.

So that is 15 of the current squad, plus 4 new signings, assume a retained Wells and Palmer and you've got a tight squad of 21. Complement that with a couple of youth players or a loan here or there and you're operating with a solid team that knows what it is doing. It might not work, and it's not hugely flexible (although there's a narrow 442 in there as a plan B) but I at least offer up a clear plan.

What the actual new manager will do...no idea.

Wells is proven at this level, perhaps Palmer not so, but in both cases you have to wonder whether their progress, or lack thereof, is down to the departed head coach and his tactics/formation/playing style. 

 

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The trouble with assessing players to hold on or release is we only know many of them by their performances under LJ's monthly-get-worse training regime.  I'm not sure we know what all of them are capable of under a first-rate coach.

There are some obvious departures, like Williams, and others who are likely to be considered too high risk and expensive, like Afobe.

But I think it'll be up to the new guy to decide in most cases and although we might speculate,  I'd be surprised if any of us correctly guesses who we have now who is in the starting XI for the first game of 20/21.

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On ‎05‎/‎07‎/‎2020 at 08:53, JonDolman said:

I want to see O'leary, Moore, Morrell and Walsh get given a chance next season.

Kalas, Dasilva, Wells stay in the side.

Might have to be 352. And our lack of height may be a problem.

Might need to bring in a few bigger players as we look so weak on defending set pieces. And Fam may well be off which will make us even weaker.

The only risk I see in this is, lets assume someone like Chris Houghton gets the job so the weight of expectation given his previous track record is taken into account.

Will there be enough patience (from all parties) to have such a young relatively inexperienced side at championship level to suddenly become an integral part of the team and also to deliver success?

I appreciate you're probably not going to have all of them in all the time, but even so it's quite an ask for young(ish) players to make that step up. 

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1 hour ago, Lew-T said:

COD, Paterson, Weimann, Watkins, Adelakun, Hunt and Williams to go for me. 


 

Along with Gustav Engvall, I feel these 3 are among LJ's worse signings. Genuinely think Hunt was worse than Pisano when he was here and he halted Vyner's progression.

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Echoing, what some others have said here, but I think SL, MA and the board will want a player who wants to use the players coming through the squad rather than someone who wants to rip everything up and start again. I think many of the younger players and more recent signings will stay because we've invested in their signing and/or development and the board will want someone who is willing to make that work

So I reckon these 15 will be part of the squad next season:

Bentley

O'Leary

Kalas

Vyner

Moore

Dasilva

Walsh

Morrell

Nagy

Massengo

Palmer

Eliasson

Szmodzics

Wells

Semenyo

 

Of the others, I reckon we'll cash in on Eliasson and Diedhiou due to their contractual situations, Williams and Smith appear to be off and Afobe appears to not be having his loan renewed.

Can see Baker staying as he is useful and would have limited resale value, O'Dowda staying because I reckon the board think they've got an asset there if a manager can get the best out of him.  Not sure what I think on Pereira and Hunt but I reckon we'll get at least one new right and a new left back, plus a replacement for Smith in the middle and a new forward. 

I reckon Rowe, Watkins, Adelakun, Paterson and Weimann all might be moved on if we can find a buyer. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, downendcity said:

Wells is proven at this level, perhaps Palmer not so, but in both cases you have to wonder whether their progress, or lack thereof, is down to the departed head coach and his tactics/formation/playing style. 

 

Agree, Wells' record shows a reliable championship striker who should get you 10-15 goals across a season, and he's on 3 in 12 for us right now (very roughly the expected return based on those career figures).

As an aside, I don't think Wells is any more proven than Fam is. At Championship level Wells has 5 seasons, top scoring with 17 in 44 in 15/16 and averaging 12 goals a season.

Fam has 3 seasons with us, hitting 13 in his first 2 and currently is on 10 for this term.

Wells has a promotion under his belt and some Premier League experience, but I am not sure that automatically means he is the man to keep over Fam.

Ps. you didn't bring Fam up, but he seems to be the guy people want to sacrifice in order to retain Wells.

As for Palmer...I was not overwhelmed when we signed him. He had a good August and September but really I'm just not sure his positive attributes outweigh his negatives.

As I said though, I don't think I or an incoming manager would immediately sell either.

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45 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

Agree, Wells' record shows a reliable championship striker who should get you 10-15 goals across a season, and he's on 3 in 12 for us right now (very roughly the expected return based on those career figures).

As an aside, I don't think Wells is any more proven than Fam is. At Championship level Wells has 5 seasons, top scoring with 17 in 44 in 15/16 and averaging 12 goals a season.

Fam has 3 seasons with us, hitting 13 in his first 2 and currently is on 10 for this term.

Wells has a promotion under his belt and some Premier League experience, but I am not sure that automatically means he is the man to keep over Fam.

Ps. you didn't bring Fam up, but he seems to be the guy people want to sacrifice in order to retain Wells.

As for Palmer...I was not overwhelmed when we signed him. He had a good August and September but really I'm just not sure his positive attributes outweigh his negatives.

As I said though, I don't think I or an incoming manager would immediately sell either.

From my perspective, I'd love us to keep Fam.  I don't think we've always used him in the best way but I think, at his best, he contributes a huge amount to the team performance even when he does not score goals. However, more pragmatically, there is a year on his contract and reports suggest he isn't in a hurry to commit beyond 2021. That's utterly his prerogative but I can see the club cashing in if they think there is a risk of losing him for nothing otherwise. 

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1 hour ago, LondonBristolian said:

Echoing, what some others have said here, but I think SL, MA and the board will want a player who wants to use the players coming through the squad rather than someone who wants to rip everything up and start again. I think many of the younger players and more recent signings will stay because we've invested in their signing and/or development and the board will want someone who is willing to make that work

So I reckon these 15 will be part of the squad next season:

Bentley

O'Leary

Kalas

Vyner

Moore

Dasilva

Walsh

Morrell

Nagy

Massengo

Palmer

Eliasson

Szmodzics

Wells

Semenyo

 

Of the others, I reckon we'll cash in on Eliasson and Diedhiou due to their contractual situations, Williams and Smith appear to be off and Afobe appears to not be having his loan renewed.

Can see Baker staying as he is useful and would have limited resale value, O'Dowda staying because I reckon the board think they've got an asset there if a manager can get the best out of him.  Not sure what I think on Pereira and Hunt but I reckon we'll get at least one new right and a new left back, plus a replacement for Smith in the middle and a new forward. 

I reckon Rowe, Watkins, Adelakun, Paterson and Weimann all might be moved on if we can find a buyer. 

 

 

Very much my thinking too. 

You've left Eliasson on your list, but I guess we expect him to go.

Maybe Hunt stays in the mix to lack of options for him? 

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Some players have been poor this season and look short on confidence. However with a new manager they can look up to. that could change quickly. The garbage served up was not for the most part there idea. 
 

nevertheless those out of contract are almost certainly out of the door.

Those with a year left that want away will be sold. NE and FD

Will Morell  TM And Walsh be offered extensions. Probably yes. 
 

then it’s about any other offers we get for the rest of them and who the new bloke wants to bring in. 

Remember with got kids everywhere some of whom are chomping at the bit. The new bloke will be tasked with promotion in two years so a lot of work needs to be done. 

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4 hours ago, Clutton Caveman said:

I dont get how so many people rate DaSilva. LJ always said "he gives you more going forward". Well I haven't seen it for a long time. When he is one on one with a full back he rarely beats him, his crossing is poor and as a defender he does not do enough to stop crosses and every team puts a monster on his side so we are at risk on the far post.

Hope he will improve under a more positive manager

You try playing LB with O’Dowda in front of you ?

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37 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You try playing LB with O’Dowda in front of you ?

You’re right but his distribution has been pretty awful since the re-start, it doesn’t matter who is in front of him if you keep giving the ball to the opposition.

Like Kalas it just hasn’t happened for him this season, but he is still a kid & undoubtedly one we need to persevere with.

Be interested to see what we do about back up to him, Rowe has another year & hasn’t let us down at LB, we also have Pring, who has been out on loan.

Not a fan of signing players you don’t really expect to play, so I would be happy enough if we went with those 2 as his back up.

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3 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

You’re right but his distribution has been pretty awful since the re-start, it doesn’t matter who is in front of him if you keep giving the ball to the opposition.

Like Kalas it just hasn’t happened for him this season, but he is still a kid & undoubtedly one we need to persevere with.

Be interested to see what we do about back up to him, Rowe has another year & hasn’t let us down at LB, we also have Pring, who has been out on loan.

Not a fan of signing players you don’t really expect to play, so I would be happy enough if we went with those 2 as his back up.

1. Agree, very disappointing at times.  He normally cares for the ball really well.

2. Agree, injury didn’t help, coming back mid season is difficult, plus our shape / system has changed so many times too.

3. And 4. Yes, recruiting at left back has to be mindful that if Dasilva recaptures top form, a new LB isn’t gotta get tonnes of minutes....might be better to go with what you have.

 

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4 hours ago, mozo said:

Very much my thinking too. 

You've left Eliasson on your list, but I guess we expect him to go.

Maybe Hunt stays in the mix to lack of options for him? 

Yeah - reckon Eliasson will go if he doesn't want to sign a new contract. Which is a shame but makes pragmatic sense.

On balance, I reckon Hunt will probably stay. I'm fine with that - he's got his flaws but is a decent enough Championship right back. If we're not getting Pereira, I'd like us to get someone who can push him for a first team place though. 

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8 hours ago, Swede said:

The squad is good enough for the playoffs. It's the coaching that's let us down.

As far as the playing staff are concerned IMO I can easily see the following happening;

Maenpaa gone. O' Leary as understudy.

Hunt gone. Pereira signed on a permanent.

Rowe gone.

Williams gone. Benkovic sent back.

Smith released. Szmodics sold. Watkins, Nagy, Massengo & Eliasson sold to make way for quality incomings.

Diedhiou sold Afobe bought. 

A lot depends on the incoming head coach and his vision. A lot depends on Walsh & Morrell stepping up to the plate. Both could have a major impact on next season.

 

Agree with most still think Massengo got something with the right coaching .

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On 05/07/2020 at 09:49, BOSRed said:

Players that should be got shot of:

paterson, watkins, o’dowda, adelakun, Weimann, Williams, hunt

players that will likely go:

eliasson, diedhiou 

players we should retain:

Pereira, benkovic, afobe, palmer, szmodics, semenyo, jonny Smith, Walsh, morrell, massengo, Nagy, dasilva, moore, kalas, bentley, Baker, Vyner, O’Leary, bakinson

 

Cant argue with that.

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