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Why it has to be an experienced, proven manager


Kid in the Riot

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just driving past the two storey framed structure of the new training ground building at Failand this morning you realise that SL won't be leaving the next managerial appointment to chance.

The new training facility which will also house the u-23s is a multi-million pound development that will be ready in around 9 months. There is absolutely no way he has invested this kind of off-field money to employ a novice, or someone of limited experience, to run. 

Bristol City is now a sizeable club and a sizeable project that requires a manager with plenty of experience at Championship and Premier League level. You can rule out the likes of Ryan Lowe and even the Paul Cook's of this world.

We need a manager who has achieved what we want to achieve, and has been where we want to be. 

The timing is good. Within two weeks umpteen clubs will have parted company with their managers as the season draws to a close, and we have a head start on all of them. 

The timing is interesting. SL was under no real pressure to fire LJ now. At the end of the season, maybe. But to have done it now, with no threat of relegation and only four games into the restart suggests we are going to act fast.

With a quick turnaround before next season starts (possibly end of September) the rest of this season could be treated as a mini pre-season. There is little merit in letting Holden continue for the next five games. 

Getting our man in quickly and letting him assess the squad will give us an advantage over rivals who will be scrabbling around for a new manager in a matter of 2-3 weeks.

The squad is now a well-paid one with numerous multi-million pound signings. Again, you don't go after a manager with only L1/L2 experience to manage these types of players. Someone who will command the full respect of the senior players is required. Someone experienced. Someone proven.

SL has seen first-hand what a manager/coach with these credentials is capable of at Bristol Bears; and he likes what he sees. 

Bristol City won't be able to attract a Pat Lam equivalent, he is one of the highest paid coaches in world rugby and the highest paid in the Premiership. But the success he is delivering, and the best is surely still to come, cannot be lost on SL.

We are a different beast to the club that LJ took over 4.5 years ago and a man for the occasion is needed. SL has got the timing right, has the infrastructure right, and now needs to be bold and go and get the right man for the job.

Great post. I agree completely. We need someone who, with regard to the playing side, and with tact and diplomacy, can say to SL, his son and their advisors 'I know what I'm doing here, let me get on with it.'

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If we were Liverpool and had just appointed Mr Klopp, how many of us would have known about him?

If we want a Pat Lam, Mark Ashton would have been scouring every league for the past few weeks for a decent manager he could approach. 

If only we had someone on Otib who knows about theIr own Portuguese, Italian, French and Swedish leagues for instance? Oh wait a minute, we do! Who would they recommend?

 

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22 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

@Kid in the Riot Good post.

You would like to think so.

However I worry about Ashton’s influence & the disastrous Coppell spell and what impact that may have,

I have a feeling it might be Lowe & of course would give him every chance (he is the closest to another GJ out there) but do think with McCarthy and Hughton both available can look to bring someone in who has a decent reputation within the game.

Ashton will have very little say in the new boss. He had no say in LJ going yesterday. 

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11 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I wonder if Eddie Howe might be up for a new challenge - he's probably taken Bournemouth as far as he can, looks like they'll be in the Championship next season too.

I know he's probably more likely to get a job at say West Ham but if we put the right package together surely it'd be worth a try.

Feel like he would be a good fit working with MA as well. Great coach but some of his signings have been woeful.

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22 minutes ago, Port Said Red said:

I don’t agree, this is the equivalent of watching a team that starts the game brightly but is being thwarted by a goalkeeper in form or not taking their chances, then changing their approach that was creating chances.

Lee got us close, you could say that we were partly thwarted by the parachute payments among other things, but we are not so bad we need to change the whole set up. We just need a fresh eye to see the finer details.  

100% agree, we have a lot of things right, I think Lee just runs out of ideas at times and over thinks it.  Sadly I think Lee will be a superb manager at some point I think he's just reached his limit with us at this time.  He will probably take on a League one challenge and get some team promoted and learn what he was never going to learn with us.  

My view is we should go for a similar minded manager with that little bit more experience of success.  Someone mentioned Adkins the other day I don't think he's right but someone similar minded, a holistic manager who will keep development going and have that little bit more to get us up.

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11 minutes ago, TomF said:

No thanks - Blokes an absolute fraud, same faults as LJ - can’t handle any ego or higher profile players 

Fact or assumption?

I ask this because it is a reality in any job that a newcomer boss faces. In football it goes along the lines if " How many caps/cups/titles have you won as a player/manager.

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3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Ashton will have very little say in the new boss. He had no say in LJ going yesterday. 

Interesting Pete, what makes you say that? I would have assumed it would have been a joint decision between Steve and Jon Lansdown and Ashton?

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11 minutes ago, TomF said:

No thanks - Blokes an absolute fraud, same faults as LJ - can’t handle any ego or higher profile players 

He's been promoted from every league and kept Bournemouth in the Premier league for years. How's that a fraud? 

My concern regarding signings however won't help if we have MA. We need someone like Norwichs Webber in place so we have a plan, style and recruitment in place for whoever the coach is. MA is not this man.

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1 minute ago, WirralRobin said:

Interesting Pete, what makes you say that? I would have assumed it would have been a joint decision between Steve and Jon Lansdown and Ashton?

Decision yesterday was from the higher ups. In my mind, the Lansdowns (or maybe just Steve) would’ve been pondering it before the game. For them to sack him, tell him, AND get the statement out by 6:30 is a hell of a turnaround. 

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A few things I'd like on our new managers CV:

Has had a successful spell with a club bigger than us.

At least one promotion into the top flight. This could be in one of the main European leagues as well as England.

Played at the highest level as a player.

Someone who sticks to their footballing philosophy, ideally an attractive attacking style.

A known motivator of players.

Unlikely to tick all those boxes i know but in agreement with the OP, it has to be a senior more experienced manager for me.

We are an attractive option no doubt about that. To get us out of this league would be a notable achievement, more so than say Bilic getting WBA up again.

Go big Steve. We need the equivalent of a record signing for our next manager, go get him.

 

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30 minutes ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

That was 10 years ago, where has SL given any indication he’s still scarred by this?

Ever heard of the phrase “in my opinion”? Clearly i stated this in my post. The managers he appointee afterwards were hardly of the calibre of Coppell and he has harped back to this stage of the clubs history many times....

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To be cliche... 
Recently, I thought we had a defence problem but concede that there are problems in midfield. This would be the bread and butter start for any manager to improve on. However, the difference between a 'FIFA manager' type and a coach, is bringing it all together in a cohesive way and that's where we've been struggling.

You'd like to think that an 'experienced' manager is the solution (and I do), I'm just wary of the journeymen out there and they have to be weeded out from the list of potentials.

So who are the journeymen?

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3 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Decision yesterday was from the higher ups. In my mind, the Lansdowns (or maybe just Steve) would’ve been pondering it before the game. For them to sack him, tell him, AND get the statement out by 6:30 is a hell of a turnaround. 

There is nothing in that that suggests Ashton wasn't involved though surely? I would be surprised if Ashton and JL weren't in constant communication all afternoon or ofcourse a decision between the three could have been made earlier in the week that if we lost (and didn't really ever look like winning / getting our 'identity' back) yesterday he'd be gone?

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Just now, WirralRobin said:

There is nothing in that that suggests Ashton wasn't involved though surely? I would be surprised if Ashton and JL weren't in constant communication all afternoon or ofcourse a decision between the three could have been made earlier in the week that if we lost (and didn't really ever look like winning / getting our 'identity' back) yesterday he'd be gone?

He would’ve been involved as he would’ve been told the thoughts/decision. In what multi million £££ business does an owner let someone beneath him make big decisions like that?  

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34 minutes ago, Redstart said:

I wonder if Eddie Howe might be up for a new challenge - he's probably taken Bournemouth as far as he can, looks like they'll be in the Championship next season too.

I know he's probably more likely to get a job at say West Ham but if we put the right package together surely it'd be worth a try.

If he ends up at West Ham, Mr David Moyes would be out of work.

 

Just saying.

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Hughton and Jokanovic have both made noises in recent weeks about returning to championship level with Birmingham looking for a manager, I wonder if Lansdown wants one of these and is ready to pounce before Birmingham have the chance. Either would be excellent.

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Great post Kid.

The more I think of it the more I think everything points to Hughton. He’s worked in a similar structure and had success at a very similar club at Brighton and he knows this division inside out.

We have a decent (if bloated) squad of players, great infrastructure and fantastic stadium so I can see why he’d be up for it. Style of play is a slight concern but if he takes us to the next level I think we’d all live with that. 

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29 minutes ago, petehinton said:

Ashton will have very little say in the new boss. He had no say in LJ going yesterday. 

They are two separate processes. Ashton having no say in the sacking of Johnson doesn’t mean he won’t have a heavy influence in the recruitment of his replacement. 
 

When Appleton was linked as Cotterill’s replacement, the comments from Ashton in relation to that suggested he was very much leading the recruitment of the new manager. 

 

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34 minutes ago, marcofisher said:

Feel like he would be a good fit working with MA as well. Great coach but some of his signings have been woeful.

Joka, Hughton or Mick... Although the latter would be out of the left field we may have to limit spending and he did superbly at Ipswich in those circumstances.

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1 hour ago, Kid in the Riot said:

Just driving past the two storey framed structure of the new training ground building at Failand this morning you realise that SL won't be leaving the next managerial appointment to chance.

The new training facility which will also house the u-23s is a multi-million pound development that will be ready in around 9 months. There is absolutely no way he has invested this kind of off-field money to employ a novice, or someone of limited experience, to run. 

Bristol City is now a sizeable club and a sizeable project that requires a manager with plenty of experience at Championship and Premier League level. You can rule out the likes of Ryan Lowe and even the Paul Cook's of this world.

We need a manager who has achieved what we want to achieve, and has been where we want to be. 

The timing is good. Within two weeks umpteen clubs will have parted company with their managers as the season draws to a close, and we have a head start on all of them. 

The timing is interesting. SL was under no real pressure to fire LJ now. At the end of the season, maybe. But to have done it now, with no threat of relegation and only four games into the restart suggests we are going to act fast.

With a quick turnaround before next season starts (possibly end of September) the rest of this season could be treated as a mini pre-season. There is little merit in letting Holden continue for the next five games. 

Getting our man in quickly and letting him assess the squad will give us an advantage over rivals who will be scrabbling around for a new manager in a matter of 2-3 weeks.

The squad is now a well-paid one with numerous multi-million pound signings. Again, you don't go after a manager with only L1/L2 experience to manage these types of players. Someone who will command the full respect of the senior players is required. Someone experienced. Someone proven.

SL has seen first-hand what a manager/coach with these credentials is capable of at Bristol Bears; and he likes what he sees. 

Bristol City won't be able to attract a Pat Lam equivalent, he is one of the highest paid coaches in world rugby and the highest paid in the Premiership. But the success he is delivering, and the best is surely still to come, cannot be lost on SL.

We are a different beast to the club that LJ took over 4.5 years ago and a man for the occasion is needed. SL has got the timing right, has the infrastructure right, and now needs to be bold and go and get the right man for the job.

You have not defined what the project is and what we want to achieve is. 

Rhetoric coming out of the club once appeared to be leaning towards European football models and developmental processes. If the project is promotion and promotion only, structure put in place becomes irrelevant if the means of achieving this is by purchasing players rather than development.   

 

 

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Lots of good posts on various threads since 6pm last night.

I’m keeping a very open mind.  I have a small list of managers I like that “I” think are realistic, but most of us have no idea what “realistic” is.

The one thing I keep coming back to is that this appointment will be telling.

I don’t want it to feel that it’s the safe option, the cheap option, a mate of MA or SL, someone who’ll divide the fan base, whilst accepting it won’t be unanimous.

I want it to be an astute signing, clearly defined, that as fans we think “they’ve done their due diligence on this one”.

I want to feel that he (or she) has structure, a way of playing, the ability to get the best out of players, whether they are youngsters coming through the pathway or an experienced pro, a good recruitment record.

I want them to be 100% bought into the structure of the club, and the club may have to budge a bit too to get the right man.  I want everyone to be joined up in essence.

I don’t think that is asking that much.  But we will see when they walk through the door.

We are a well established club at this level with a much improving (not perfect) football business nous.  We should be able to make good appointments!

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