Jump to content

Why it has to be an experienced, proven manager


Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, OldlandReddies said:

No, that discounts them. They may get us out of Championship but what then? Steve needs to appoint someone who not only can get us up but can push us on in Premiership....exactly what Wolves have done. We will have world class facilities.....let's appoint a world class manager. 

Do you honestly think we have World Class facilities, we’ve come a long way but to call it world class is laughable 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, glen humphries said:

Do you honestly think we have World Class facilities, we’ve come a long way but to call it world class is laughable 

I remember in the 1980s it was obligatory for the likes of Steve Johnson, Tony Caldwell et al to describe BCFC as a “First Division setup” on signing. I assume this is the modern equivalent 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GrahamC said:

Our managers post Coppell have been Millen, McInnes, O’Driscoll, Cotts & LJ.

None of whom with the greatest respect come with the sort of background that Coppell had.

5 appointments would suggest we have steered clear of a big name, maybe it will change this time.

It seems to me that the key attribute needed would be the ability to manage upwards effectively.  To ensure that others in the organisation just get on with their jobs quietly and that he is in charge of the major decisions.  KITR is right that we aren't going to get a world class manager but someone with enough nous to deal with our particular situation is a must.  LJ clearly lacked the experience, Cotts was too abrasive and was undermined.

The lesson to be learned from the Coppell debacle is not to chase someone too hard.  They need to want to be here. If they are still afraid of a 'big name' 10 years later than that is embarrassing.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Carey 6 said:

Find the snobbery surrounding McCarthy surprising tbh. 

His Wolves team played good football, two wingers, strikers scoring for fun. 

Ipswich had little funds, he still had them in the play offs & towards the end the football got attritional as a means to keep them in the division. 

I’d certainly take him here. 

Got Sunderland promoted too playing good football. 

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, marcofisher said:

Feel like he would be a good fit working with MA as well. Great coach but some of his signings have been woeful.

I like Howe but I don’t think he would be a good fit off the back of an almighty struggle in the Prem looking like resulting in  a relegation.

It takes time for people to come to terms, emotionally, with a change of situation. They need to grieve before relaunching themselves in a new project .

That is one reason why I think Hughton would be a good move . He’s had time out to reflect and find his mojo again. He’s not leaving a mess or the joy of a promotion somewhere.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Silvio Dante said:

I remember in the 1980s it was obligatory for the likes of Steve Johnson, Tony Caldwell et al to describe BCFC as a “First Division setup” on signing. I assume this is the modern equivalent 

You had me worried for a minute!

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

I like Howe but I don’t think he would be a good fit off the back of an almighty struggle in the Prem looking like resulting in  a relegation.

It takes time for people to come to terms, emotionally, with a change of situation. They need to grieve before relaunching themselves in a new project .

That is one reason why I think Hughton would be a good move . He’s had time out to reflect and find his mojo again. He’s not leaving a mess or the joy of a promotion somewhere.

 

True. Can’t say I see Hughton as a long term investment though with the philosophy we want to go forward with. 

Would prefer going all out for Jovanovich.

Im wondering if we will see a Steve Cooper type appointment. Or a foreign coach that has been plucked out of the backroom staff of somewhere like RB Leipzig. Someone who will buy in the ideals of a “project”.

Edited by marcofisher
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Jokanović is a bit of a blind spot in my thinking.  Never thought he was a realistic but things have moved on.

Did wonder if his path had crossed with MA at Watford but timelines miles out.

A lot to like. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly agree with KITR that the club has moved on since LJ came in and it will be a more ambitious appointment but I don't necessarily think it will be an experienced, proven manager. It might be but I get the impression the club also want to show they are forward thinking, progressive and ambitious. I can't see someone like Mick McCarthy, for example, because I think he'd be perceived as too "old school" and I reckon SL might want to go with someone who'll make a bit of a splash and get a bit of attention.

I can potentially see Hughton or Jokanovic but I'd not be surprised if it was someone who has never managed before but has been on the coaching staff of a bigger club. I actually think one name who has not been mentioned yet who is more plausible than, say, Steven Gerrard, is John Terry. He's spent a couple of years in an assistant role, has a high profile and would be perceived outside the club as an ambitious appointment. I'd not be that shocked if it was that sort of appointment, or an overseas manager who has not managed in the UK before, that we ended up going with. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

No thanks. And that’s putting it mildly. 

Certainly not suggesting he would be a universally popular choice (as you say, that is putting it mildly). I'm just saying I would not be massively surprised if the club approached him for a chat about it.  

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, OldlandReddies said:

No, that discounts them. They may get us out of Championship but what then? Steve needs to appoint someone who not only can get us up but can push us on in Premiership....exactly what Wolves have done. We will have world class facilities.....let's appoint a world class manager. 

But when the Wolves manager was appointed, he had never "done it" before. It was a gamble that has paid off massively.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good and thought provoking post KITR. 
 

I posted on another thread last night that I think we are in a bit of a crossroads. 
SL has spent years trying to get his vision and club philosophy in place. But each time a new appointment is required he changes tac and seems to take the opposite route from which he had been travelling. 
 

He started with the experienced Wilson, then switched to the novice Tinnion. He then moved onto the experienced lower league man and disciplinarian G Johnson. Then he went for the experienced higher league manager in Coppell. Next, back to a novice in Millen. Then tried his hand at the ‘up and coming’ in McInnes. Then back to the experienced hand in SOD, to embed his vision. Next to the SC, who would not buy into his vision. Finally onto LJ, who would buy into his vision. 
 

Every appointment has been a shift (sometimes significant shift) from the previous one. It is for this reason that I have absolutely no idea where we are going to go with this next appointment. 
 

As I said, we’re at a crossroads. 
Option A is to carry straight on. That would mean employing someone in the LJ mould, a young manager with potential who would buy into the vision. Maybe the likes of Lowe and Cook come under that banner. Perhaps even Rosenior if you wanted to push ‘young potential’ with inexperience too.  
Option B is to turn right and take a manager who has a track record at this level. Someone who may polarise the fanbase but has the cv to say I’ve been here and done it. They may buy into the vision but more likely they will want something of their own control over certain things. So you accommodate them at the sacrifice of your vision. This is your Hughton, Mick, Jokanovic types. 
Option C is to turn left and go with a real ‘leftfield’ appointment. A statement. A big name with a history that will demand respect from the players and would increase our stature in the game from “little Bristol City” to “wow, Bristol City are actually going for it”. A take up and notice appointment. This is your Gerrard-type appointment. 
 

I honestly don’t know which way SL will swing this time. I wouldn’t be surprised at any of these options. I can genuinely see them sat down thinking about a Rosenior or a Lowe. But I can also see them seriously considering Hughton or Jokanovic. And I can also see that slavering at the prospect of a Gerrard. 
 

It’s a real tough one to call this. But you are absolutely right in that the reason we are now in a position to have all 3 options for consideration is because LJ and the current vision has got us into the conversation as an ‘established championship club’. 
4.5 years ago, we only really had option A available to us. Now we have all options open and I’m intrigued as to which way we go. It’s the most crucial point in SL’s tenure. Get this one wrong and we slide into relegation again, and his super training ground and stadium is a L1 flop again. Get this one right and there’s a lot of things in place that will help the new man to make a real promotion push, rather than the early-season flirting we currently do. 
 

Critical appointment this one. One I feel can go any way of the 3 options. 

Edited by Harry
  • Like 10
  • Thanks 1
  • Robin 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think Jokanović is a bit of a blind spot in my thinking.  Never thought he was a realistic but things have moved on.

Did wonder if his path had crossed with MA at Watford but timelines miles out.

A lot to like. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Currently 20-1 with the bookies if you fancy a flutter. How much do we think it would cost to prise him away from the Managers position he has in Qatar? I can't imagine they are paying peanuts even in a fledgling league like that one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Farke, Wagner, Lamouchi, Thomas Frank, Potter. And I'm sure there's many more like these. Not hugely experienced but did very well.

Probably many more examples in all leagues where managers with little managerial experience comes in and does really well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, The Horse With No Name said:

So realistically, that narrows it down to Hughton or McCarthy.

Both in their 60s. Not quite the basis for a dynasty that might bring continuity in the long term.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I think Jokanović is a bit of a blind spot in my thinking.  Never thought he was a realistic but things have moved on.

Did wonder if his path had crossed with MA at Watford but timelines miles out.

A lot to like. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

If I recall correctly West Brom approached him but he turned them down because they didn't offer him a big enough salary. If so he is probably out of reach.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Harry said:

Very good and thought provoking post KITR. 
 

I posted on another thread last night that I think we are in a bit of a crossroads. 
SL has spent years trying to get his vision and club philosophy in place. But each time a new appointment is required he changes tac and seems to take the opposite route from which he had been travelling. 
 

He started with the experienced Wilson, then switched to the novice Tinnion. He then moved onto the experience lower league man and disciplinarian G Johnson. Then he went for the experienced higher league manager in Coppell. Next, back to a novice in Millen. Then tried his hand at the ‘up and coming’ in McInnes. Then back to the experienced hand in SOD, to embed his vision. Next to the SC, who would not buy into his vision. Finally onto LJ, who would buy into his vision. 
 

Every appointment has been a shift (sometimes significant shift) from the previous one. It is for this reason that I have absolutely no idea where we are going to go with this next appointment. 
 

As I said, we’re at a crossroads. 
Option A is to carry straight on. That would mean employing someone in the LJ mould, a young manager with potential who would buy into the vision. Maybe the likes of Lowe and Cook come under that banner. Perhaps even Rosenior if you wanted to push ‘young potential’ with inexperience too.  
Option B is to turn right and take a manager who has a track record at this level. Someone who may polarise the fanbase but has the cv to say I’ve been here and done it. They may buy into the vision but more likely they will want something of their own control over certain things. So you accommodate them at the sacrifice of your vision. This is your Hughton, Mick, Jokanovic types. 
Option C is to turn left and go with a real ‘leftfield’ appointment. A statement. A big name with a history that will demand respect from the players and would increase our stature in the game from “little Bristol City” to “wow, Bristol City are actually going for it”. A take up and notice appointment. This is your Gerrard-type appointment. 
 

I honestly don’t know which way SL will swing this time. I wouldn’t be surprised at any of these options. I can genuinely see them sat down thinking about a Rosenior or a Lowe. But I can also see them seriously considering Hughton or Jokanovic. And I can also see that slavering at the prospect of a Gerrard. 
 

It’s a real tough one to call this. But you are absolutely right in that the reason we are now in a position to have all 3 options for consideration is because LJ and the current vision has got us into the conversation as an ‘established championship club’. 
4.5 years ago, we only really had option A available to us. Now we have all options open and I’m intrigued as to which way we go. It’s the most crucial point in SL’s tenure. Get this one wrong and we slide into relegation again, and his super training ground and stadium is a L1 flop again. Get this one right and there’s a lot of things in place that will help the new man to make a real promotion push, rather than the early-season flirting we currently do. 
 

Critical appointment this one. One I feel can go any way of the 3 options. 

Whether the next manager is young and up and coming, or established and done it, or big name, is not really so important, IMO mate.

What is relevant is that the manager should possess the key attributes which any manager in any profession should have.

Leadership qualities and strong man management skills are essential. That is why Johnson was a hopeless choice as manager or head coach, he simply does not possess these attributes. The fact we improved each season with him was largely down to the money spent on players, which was only going to get us so far.

My comment on here within minutes of Johnson's appointment was "hilarious" because I knew or at the very least strongly suspected that he did not have these attributes; the reason I mention this is because I worry that what I felt then should have been blatantly obvious to the person making the appointment, wasn't blatantly obvious.

If you take the successful managers of recent seasons - Gary Johnson and Cotterill - both have those attributes. The others not so much or in one case, maybe two, not at all.

It sounds obvious but for whatever reason these fundamental principles were ignored last time around.

I don't know about some of the younger names you have mentioned, but for me some of the experienced big names which have been bandied about - Houghton, McCarthy, Allardyce, Warnock even, tick the box.

And for a left side swerve as you put it, judging by the way in which, I noticed, Holden took on the task of talking to the players during those drinks breaks when Johnson abdicated his responsibility, he might even have the necessary qualities.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hear this every time. 

“Has to be proven”  

Total nonsense.

if they are proven and they are coming here, of all places, chances are, they are a proven failure...

I’d prefer someone with good credentials and showed some promise 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, petehinton said:

Doesn’t undervalue his judgement but, As above, why would the owner of a club need to consult with someone below him/someone he pays the wages for to make decisions? 

Well it was Ashton who interviewed LJ for the job and then recommended him to the Board, so perhaps Mr Lansdown does consult with those below him on big decisions ...

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I want them to be 100% bought into the structure of the club, and the club may have to budge a bit too to get the right man.  I want everyone to be joined up in essence.

 

I think it's an interesting point that the club will have to budge too.

The "project/vision" is obviously important, but I hope Steve/Mark/Jon are not pig headed enough to also think they will have got the vision spot on at a first attempt. They need to accept they will have made mistakes, some lines should be redrawn, and compromises made. For the project to truly be successful long term I strong believe it needs to evolve over time, and as they learn more - and they will have learnt a lot from the last four years or so.

For everyone to be joined up, they cannot expect to write a list of demands and have a new manager abide by them all. That's not how you motivate or get people to "buy in" to your philosophy - the new manager needs to be seen as an intelligent, experienced professional and responsible for shaping our direction as much as following it, and given some degree of autonomy.

If they get find an excellent candidate in who doesn't quite fit the project perfectly, perhaps that's an indication project should be able to change as well in order to be successful?

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

I think it's an interesting point that the club will have to budge too.

The "project/vision" is obviously important, but I hope Steve/Mark/Jon are not pig headed enough to also think they will have got the vision spot on at a first attempt. They need to accept they will have made mistakes, some lines should be redrawn, and compromises made. For the project to truly be successful long term I strong believe it needs to evolve over time, and as they learn more - and they will have learnt a lot from the last four years or so.

For everyone to be joined up, they cannot expect to write a list of demands and have a new manager abide by them all. That's not how you motivate or get people to "buy in" to your philosophy - the new manager needs to be seen as an intelligent, experienced professional and responsible for shaping our direction as much as following it, and given some degree of autonomy.

If they get find an excellent candidate in who doesn't quite fit the project perfectly, perhaps that's an indication project should be able to change as well in order to be successful?

 

Yep, exactly what I meant.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...