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Why it has to be an experienced, proven manager


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Love the OP and I certainly agree with all of it . My only problem we have previous for going for an un fancied up and coming manager . Really hope I’m  proven wrong and we spend the pennies and go top drawer . Statement of intent 

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2 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Both in their 60s. Not quite the basis for a dynasty that might bring continuity in the long term.

Possibly good enough for three to four years, in the case of McCarthy anyway, which I have no issue with.

Play's quick effective football - only became attritional with what he had at Ipswich after he was given no money.

His Millwall, Sunderland, and Wolves sides played some good stuff - much of it being wing-play which we've always favoured to some extent.

Also easily got RoI to qualify for the Euros, something they hadn't managed since Trapattoni unless I'm wrong.

Edited by Fuber
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Available British Experienced Managers available are the following:

Sam Allardyce, Nigel Adkins, Steve McClaren, Alan Pardew, Nigel Clough, Chris Hughton and Mick McCarthy. 
 

Not the greatest list of available experienced managers.

 

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From that list I’d take McCarthy, Houghton, Adkins or Allardyce.

Need a really experienced head here at the moment to stabilise and rebuild.

Too many issues for a young up and coming Manager to resolve I fear not least an identity, pattern of play (Plan A & B), bloated squad and, critically, a bunch of individuals who can’t play together as one unit - even in their own sector of the pitch with two other team mates, let alone the entire field with the remaining ten colleagues. 

 

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1 hour ago, redpole said:

Available British Experienced Managers available are the following:

Sam Allardyce, Nigel Adkins, Steve McClaren, Alan Pardew, Nigel Clough, Chris Hughton and Mick McCarthy. 
 

Not the greatest list of available experienced managers.

 

Hughton or McCarthy from that list. I didn’t even consider mick before , but his cv is excellent 

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Looking at the Rugby model, things have changed since we appointed LJ in his role.

Lansdown has spent big on some rugby players, and has spent big on coaches. First getting Andy Robinson and then Pat Lam.

On a side note, I've just finished a Book about Bielsa (which is fascinating). Leeds openly admitted that the cost of the manager was far less impactful than another big signing player. They offered Conte £20 Million to coach them after he got sacked by Chelsea, such is the value of Premier League football to them.

If we have been wise (as would appear) in our purchases over the last 3 seasons, getting new young talent - why would you not now make that final investment to nurture and develop? The cost of that development of one player - could cover the salary of the manger 4 times over. That is why the LJ appointment should always be looked upon as a success with some amazing memories. Like many have said, it simply ran out of steam and ideas. It was stale, and needed a change.

If Hughton meets the club criteria of coach, agrees with the plan and agenda - money will not be an issue in getting his signature. 

Edited by Sandhurst Red
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3 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Both in their 60s. Not quite the basis for a dynasty that might bring continuity in the long term.

Both only 61 tbf. A good 5 years left in them yet - longer if Warnock is a guide - and the shelf life of a manager isn’t much more than that anyway 

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4 hours ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Well it was Ashton who interviewed LJ for the job and then recommended him to the Board, so perhaps Mr Lansdown does consult with those below him on big decisions ...

Ha ha, good one!!

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4 hours ago, Bat Fastard said:

Both in their 60s. Not quite the basis for a dynasty that might bring continuity in the long term.

What is ‘long term’ in football management though? Does it exist now? I think the days of the Fergie and Wenger dynasties are long gone - anyway, Mick and Chris are both 61 years old - and four geezers managed in our premier league into their 70s - so they are just spring chickens ...

Edited by BS4 on Tour...
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1 minute ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL wanted LJ and went and got him. He wanted him weeks, if not months, actually years (!) before SC was fired.

The decision was nothing to do with Ashton. 

Fair enough, if you know that to be true. But why didn’t he just offer the job to LJ? Why go through the interview charade? He simply offered the job to Cotts without the traditional recruitment process didn’t he?

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13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL wanted LJ and went and got him. He wanted him weeks, if not months, actually years (!) before SC was fired.

The decision was nothing to do with Ashton. 

Certainly true that SL always wanted LJ as manager.

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13 minutes ago, Kid in the Riot said:

SL wanted LJ and went and got him. He wanted him weeks, if not months, actually years (!) before SC was fired.

The decision was nothing to do with Ashton. 

Wasn’t he practically mentoring him from when he got the Oldham job? Maybe even before. It must’ve been hard to finally pull the trigger, but I think all parties involved can probably agree, in the cold hard light of day, that his time had come. 

13 minutes ago, BS4 on Tour... said:

Fair enough, if you know that to be true. But why didn’t he just offer the job to LJ? Why go through the interview charade? He simply offered the job to Cotts without the traditional recruitment process didn’t he?

Cotts was Keith Dawe’s appointment 

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11 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Wasn’t he practically mentoring him from when he got the Oldham job? Maybe even before. It must’ve been hard to finally pull the trigger, but I think all parties involved can probably agree, in the cold hard light of day, that his time had come. 

Cotts was Keith Dawe’s appointment 

Yep but there was no interviewing / recruitment process - he just got him in ...

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10 minutes ago, CyderInACan said:

Wasn’t he practically mentoring him from when he got the Oldham job? Maybe even before. It must’ve been hard to finally pull the trigger, but I think all parties involved can probably agree, in the cold hard light of day, that his time had come. 

Cotts was Keith Dawe’s appointment 

Yes, certainly recommended him to Oldham.

But on what basis was he “backing him”.  What had he seen in the pre-Oldham LJ, apart from coaching the youth teams.

I can’t believe it was guilt over sacking his dad.

5 minutes ago, steviestevieneville said:

This is what worries me about SL. His manager choices have been poor in the main. Especially if what we’re led to believe is true that Kieth dawe appointed cotts 

that is certainly the story.

I know I joke about it, but it really does feel like the $1 bet in Trading Places if you go back 4 1/2 years.  His game record was not worthy.

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11 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

it really does feel like the $1 bet in Trading Places if you go back 4 1/2 years.  His game record was not worthy.

...too right! Very well put.

I went back into my posting history to assess exactly why I'm so delighted at the change of management...I've been calling for LJ to go since August 2018, and be replaced by someone with experience. I've been far from alone but it's seemed a long time.

Edited by Red Exile
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1 hour ago, Sandhurst Red said:

Looking at the Rugby model, things have changed since we appointed LJ in his role.

Lansdown has spent big on some rugby players, and has spent big on coaches. First getting Andy Robinson and then Pat Lam.

On a side note, I've just finished a Book about Bielsa (which is fascinating). Leeds openly admitted that the cost of the manager was far less impactful than another big signing player. They offered Conte £20 Million to coach them after he got sacked by Chelsea, such is the value of Premier League football to them.

If we have been wise (as would appear) in our purchases over the last 3 seasons, getting new young talent - why would you not now make that final investment to nurture and develop? The cost of that development of one player - could cover the salary of the manger 4 times over. That is why the LJ appointment should always be looked upon as a success with some amazing memories. Like many have said, it simply ran out of steam and ideas. It was stale, and needed a change.

If Hughton meets the club criteria of coach, agrees with the plan and agenda - money will not be an issue in getting his signature. 

Your 2nd paragraph is key, Lansdown have spent big time for the Bears. Lam and a number of Bears players would not have been cheap. They are now on the up. 

Lansdown now needs to have the same approach for City. 

 

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15 minutes ago, City1970 said:

Your 2nd paragraph is key, Lansdown have spent big time for the Bears. Lam and a number of Bears players would not have been cheap. They are now on the up. 

Lansdown now needs to have the same approach for City. 

 

Interesting parallel with the Bears. Spending big in rugby isn’t the same as football. Most Bears players will get paid peanuts compared to some of the City players. Charles Piutau for example being one of the worlds best paid players, but will earn less than a few City players like Kalas.

i think a lot of due diligence went into recruiting Lam, including the Bris board presenting to him as well as the other way round to ensure he was the right fit for the club, and also that Lam thought it was the right project to take on. Does the same happen in football? Don’t know. Lam has certainly been allowed to bring his own Coaching staff in, and you feel the new manager needs to have autonomy to do that. Unless it’s Holden, in which case he can keep Macca!

Interesting times, that’s for sure

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10 hours ago, Gazred said:

A few things I'd like on our new managers CV:

Has had a successful spell with a club bigger than us.

At least one promotion into the top flight. This could be in one of the main European leagues as well as England.

Played at the highest level as a player.

Someone who sticks to their footballing philosophy, ideally an attractive attacking style.

A known motivator of players.

Unlikely to tick all those boxes i know but in agreement with the OP, it has to be a senior more experienced manager for me.

We are an attractive option no doubt about that. To get us out of this league would be a notable achievement, more so than say Bilic getting WBA up again.

Go big Steve. We need the equivalent of a record signing for our next manager, go get him.

 

Only man that could tick all those boxes..... Mick McCarthy 

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12 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Michael Flynn (Newport Manager) has come from nowhere in the betting and is now third favourite at 5-1

Lowe’s odds have now drifted with a Hughton 5/6 favourite - we can but hope 🤞🤞

Flynn is someone we’ll know well, having sent several loans his way. Would be underwhelming, to say the least, but to be honest I don’t care where they come from, it’s the job they do when they get here.

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21 minutes ago, Loosey Boy said:

Michael Flynn (Newport Manager) has come from nowhere in the betting and is now third favourite at 5-1........

Bookies usually make money so I expect they’re glad to take bets on Flynn. He had an underwhelming playing record and has had hardly any managerial experience. 

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1 hour ago, harvey54 said:

Only man that could tick all those boxes..... Mick McCarthy 

A good manager but attractive, attacking philosophy?

Think Jokanovic ticks as many boxes, based on a quick Wiki search.

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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11 hours ago, Silvio Dante said:

I remember in the 1980s it was obligatory for the likes of Steve Johnson, Tony Caldwell et al to describe BCFC as a “First Division setup” on signing. I assume this is the modern equivalent 

Modern equivalent?

"Premier League club in training" or whatever the expression was...

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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13 hours ago, CliftonCliff said:

If Villa get relegated in their first PL season, will they get rid of Smith, do you think? 

Just a thought...

Cannot organise a defensive shape though tbh a bit better since the resumption. 

However that's the PL. Problem is he had issues with it last season too with one of the highest paid squads in Championship history and he had issues with it at Brentford.

So I have some doubts. Reason I have a few about Jokanovic too, the whole balance aspect. 

Edited by Mr Popodopolous
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